Rush Limbaugh says Donovan McNabb is overrated because he is black
 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

What do you guys think about Limbaugh's charge?

Personally, I think teams will play whoever gives them the best chance to win and make more money. Even if you believe Rush's assertion about the media, its up to the coach to make a decision. Just a few years ago, people like Rush were saying that African-Americans could never play quarterback because they weren't smart enough. Now that they've seemingly been proven wrong, their only defense is to claim that the black QB's aren't as good as they seem.

As far as McNabb, I think his record speaks for itself. Every QB has a couple bad games. McNabb was given as tough a time making it in this league as any other QB, getting booed when he was drafted and criticized in the press. He's proved himself year in and year out and I wouldn't be surprised if this stuff motivates him to go out and prove himself again.

He sucked in that Lincoln Financial commercial, and in the Chunky's Soup commercial.

Black QB's just don't make commercials as good as white QB's, because Peyton Manning and Brett Favre's Sunday Ticket commercials are awesome.

I can see Rush's point though. There has only been one black QB who ever won a Super Bowl, Doug Williams of the Washington Redskins who beat John Elway's Broncos in SB XXII. With all the air time given to the not enough black head coaches thing, it is easy to see why the media wants a black QB to do well. Their original point was that there were not enough black QB's in the league; there are now enough starting black QB's to silence that argument. Unfortunately, they are not consistently good enough to please critics. Kordell Stewart, Michael Vick, Rodney Peete, Byron Leftwich, Quincy Carter, Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brooks, Steve McNair, and Donovan McNabb are all capable quarterbacks, the best among them being Vick and McNair. A Super Bowl champion black QB would probably shut those critics up for good, but for now, none except Stewart have been able to get there, and he'll never see another one.

I don't know... you never hear the media screaming for more white running backs and wide receivers. I've named 9 black starting quarterbacks. (I know, Delhomme is starting for Carolina these days; but Peete started the season.) Can you name 9 white starting running backs or wide receivers?

-Mikey

Rush Limbaugh is a douchebag!

I actually watched him live when he said it and the other guys on there were objecting to him.

I just dont think Rush should be anywhere near espn.

I saw the show as it happened. The commentators were talking about things like mechanics and lack of talent around McNabb - then Limbaugh jumped in with this hooey. This is what Limbaugh is payed to do - spout outrageous crap and get people worked up. That's what he did on the radio for all those years.

I know they say Limbaugh is a "fan," and that's what qualifies him, but if you've actually have seen the show he offers no insight that you or I couldn't bring. As for the black quarterback thing being "hyped" by the media, that's just plain stupid. He has led his team to back to back NFC championship games - you get some pub when you do that.

Unfortunately, this incident will make ESPN's pre-game the "next big thing." Already, ratings are up ten percent. Today, Limbaugh's mug is platered all over the USAToday and other publications. People will tune in to see what outrageous things he will say next. *sighs*

Remember when they used to cover the games during pre-game, without the half-naked piece of ass, professional comedian, or professional blowhard?

How true.....Is there anything more useless than that sideline reporter?

I stopped watching ESPN's Sunday Countdown because they added Limbaugh. What was the purpose in this? Were their ratings dropping so low that they had to add him for stunts like this one? I mean adding Limbaugh to their show would be like adding say...Dennis Rodman to "Meet the Press"...it just doesn't make sense...

As far as McNabb...I'm not sure what's up with him. I don't get to see many Eagles games in the midwest but it could be a number of factors. Their defense lost a lot of key players from last years team. Maybe McNabb is putting more pressure on himself knowing that the defense isn't what it was. He only has 3 INT's this year but the number of sacks he's had is 13, second highest in the league...maybe his O-line sucks. But as for the fact he is a black quarterback, in my opinion, it has nothing to do with it...

I believe Franken said it best, "Rush Limbaugh is a big, fat idiot."

In this circle, Rush is an idiot. In the political arean, he's fine. He shouldn't have mixed the two, and he should stay out of football. McNabb is an awesome qb, and has skills. Getting injured last year has not helped his developement this year, but he will be fine.

It would be really nice if this entirely destroyed Limbaugh's career, like it did for Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder: "...the slave owner would breed his big black with his big woman so that he would have a big black kid. That's where it all started."

I'm sure it won't, however.

Limbaugh dissin McNabb
 

I think he's right. McNabb is a good quarterback, the guy didn't say that, but McNair is so much better. McNabb can't say he won the big game on the field (maybe on the Playstation). He is very good. He's much better than my sorry ass, but the guy has way more media attention than he deserves. I think Warren Moon deserved better.

Just figured someone might be interested...

When you connect to America Online, the first thing you see is:
Rush Blitzes Black Athlete: Says Race is Why QB Starts

Hmmmm... no he didn't. But I don't much care if this is what the 'spin' on this ends up being. However, I agree with Redlemon, this won't do anything but help his career and the ESPN show. Limbaugh is sitting at home laughing right now at all the free publicity he's getting.

When Limbaugh breaks his ankle early in the first quarter of his radio show and goes ahead and finishes the show without medical assistance, I'll believe his spewage about McNabb being overrated.

The Eagles current suckage is not McNabb overrating but some truly shitty play by his teammates, specifically his running backs and wide receivers.

I think limbaugh is only on radio and tv because the liberal media is pandering fat rich white men. He's really no better than the average fat rich white man.

I don't know who I feel sorry for, Limbaugh, or the hordes of his followers. It's depressing we still have to deal with this BS in 2003.

I love him

Re: Limbaugh dissin McNabb
 

Lets see...McNabb has passed for over 400 yards and 4 TD's on a snapped, not just broken, but snapped ankle. He's also led the Eagles to an NFC Title game with only 11 other guys. In other words, his number one receiver was a no name released from the REDSKINS (Thrash) and his number one running back was some rookie they scrounged up (Buckhalter). So, he had to make plays with his feet, and did it all the way to the championship game, AND got robbed of the MVP. Now, if that sucks, and if that's overrated, well then, the NFL is the most overrated league in professional sports.

I can't wait to see Westbrook kick some arse this sunday...

Re: Re: Limbaugh dissin McNabb
 

Nahh, that would be the NBA.

As for the whole black/white thing at QB, it really isn't worth it to argue about. It is a fact that the media (I'll let you decide if they are liberal or conservative) have screamed about having more black coaches. I am sure they they have complained about black QB's as well but it doesn't get the attention because the QB position has to be earned.

The media doesn't say we need more white players, but I would guess that well over 50% of the league is black.

No one is ever going to "win" the race arguement.

Rush is mostly correct on this one.

In chicago we have the opposite effect with Brian Urlacher (not sure how close on spelling that is) since he is a quick white linebacker. He's been sucking REALLY bad since last year, but being the odd white linebacker he is the media darling.

Urlacher is being over hyped because he is white. I think black QB's get the same treatment.

What do I think of Limbaugh's charge? I think Limbaugh made it, so it'd take 10 years and a panel of sports experts before I'd even consider the possibility that it might have been accurate.

The merit of the argument goes fishing when the merit of the arguer is nil.

Limbaugh just resigned. I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did.

tj, I was being sarcastic in the end of that post.

The point being, if Donovan McNabb, someone who was robbed for the MVP a few years ago, has carried an entire offense, and has shown incredible heart in playing through a snapped ankle and dehydration (numerous times) is over-rated, than the entire NFL must be over-rated.

I don't think it was anything personal against McNabb, rather the media. I'm inclined to believe him judging by the response it got.

Being that Rush defended the NFL's new rules on black head coaches 2 weeks ago, I rather doubt it is a race thing.

The sin Rush did was mentioning the idea that a black would get undeserved preferential treatment. You can claim racism only if it hurts a minority, no matter how bogus the charge, and get away with it (look at some of the crap Sosa said during the cork episode), but god help you if you say a black got a break because he was black.

yep, Limbaugh is history.
http://msn.espn.go.com/gen/news/2003/1001/1628537.html

Funny thing is, he actually still thinks he's right on this issue. In fact, he seems to think that BECAUSE people are outraged by his comments, they must have been true.

Now that's some messed up logic. So if Limbaugh says that we need to kill all black people in the US and people are outraged, he must be right. I can't believe people actually listen to a word this idiot says.

Do FBs count ? There are plenty of those (Ritchie, Alstott etc etc etc)

White WRs.. hmm..

Chrebet (Jets)
Boerighter (Chiefs)
McCaffrey (Broncos)
Berlin (Titans)
Dwight (Chargers)


No, thats about it.

Why should he resign or be fired? He said, "the media wants a black QB to do well." He didn't call him anything derogatory, demean his heritage, or anything RACIST. He stated an opinion. He didn't say "that black so-and-so is only on the team cuz he's black!!" And he didn't say "I don't think he's a good QB because he's black!" Once again, people overreact just because someone stated their negative opinion of a person AND happened to mention race in the same sentence. This is another example of PC run amok.

And now Rush's drug accusations come out... hmm...

I disagree completely.

Tell me Rushs' comments don't say the same thing as, "He's not that good. The media wants people to think he's that good. The reason the media hypes him up, and gives him so much credit, is because he's black, and the media wants a black QB to excell in the league.".

It's the exact same thing chief. You can easily mis understand what's he's saying. But you can't tell people they can't call it racsim.

Bye Bye, Rush. Sports will be better without you.

I loved your last comment, veritas.

My opinion? Rush "resigned" under some pressure. Look, you can go and hint around things or say whatever you want on your talkshow. And, as for the person who said "why do people listen anyway" - it's not because they agree with him but because they want to see what idiot thing he's gonna say next - he and Howard Stern have alot in common.

I guess none of us should be surprised. You can't work for the Disney Corporation and spout nonsense like that.

Uhhh... you can state a negative opinion about someone. Sports people do it all the time. You can't state a negative opinion about someones performance on the field and then toss race in for good measure. You don't "happen" to toss in race in a non-racial issue. Your "AND" is the problem here.

Johnnymysto
 

I could not have said it more succinctly.
...and with respect to Jimmy4, I agree McNabb is a hell of a player. I don't think anyone would disagree. I do think he is overrated. The NFL is becomming more and more like WWF because the Media Dogs need to feed on the sweet entrails of the allmighty rating.


__________________

Don't mean to state the obvious, but the eagles got to the championship game without McNabb, and McNabb did not do so well when since he came back, until last week. I don't agree with Rush on alot of things, but his position on this could be defended.

Gov135, I'm not saying that what Rush said is true because it's obviously not. McNabb is a great quarterback, and anybody can tell that from his stats. I'm just saying that Rush voiced his opinion that the MEDIA is being racist by hyping McNabb just because he's black.

Then per today's news releases, I want to critisize him for being a fat white guy with an addition to oxycontin.

oh wait. that would classify all us fat white guys.

Speak for yourself, Honkie. I'm not fat, I'm not addicted to oxycontin (WTF-ever that is), and I'm not White.

hehehehe

Rush Limbaugh was inaccurate in his assessment of both McNabb's performance, and the media's behavior. The fact that he took "the path of least resistance" (his words) and resigned instead of staying engaged in the dialog speaks volumes.

Wow, your cool.

ARE WE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE OUR OWN OPINIONS ANYMORE!!!!!!!!

damn...free speech my ass

Slate article


I don't think this has been posted yet, and I'm glad someone that probably knows more about the NFL agrees with me on this.sports nut


Rush Limbaugh Was Right
"Donovan McNabb isn't a great quarterback, and the media do overrate him because he is black.
By Allen Barra
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 3:33 PM PT



Limbaugh leaves over unfair football flap

In his notorious ESPN comments last Sunday night, Rush Limbaugh said he never thought the Philadelphia Eagles' Donovan McNabb was "that good of a quarterback."

If Limbaugh were a more astute analyst, he would have been even harsher and said, "Donovan McNabb is barely a mediocre quarterback." But other than that, Limbaugh pretty much spoke the truth. Limbaugh lost his job for saying in public what many football fans and analysts have been saying privately for the past couple of seasons.

Let's review: McNabb, he said, is "overrated ... what we have here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback can do well—black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well."


Continue Article

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"There's a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

Let's take the football stuff first. For the past four seasons, the Philadelphia Eagles have had one of the best defenses in the National Football League and have failed to make it to the Super Bowl primarily because of an ineffective offense—an offense run by Donovan McNabb. McNabb was a great college quarterback, in my estimation one of the best of the '90s while at Syracuse. (For the record, I helped persuade ESPN Magazine, then called ESPN Total Sports, to put him on the cover of the 1998 college-football preview issue.) He is one of the most talented athletes in the NFL, but that talent has not translated into greatness as a pro quarterback.

McNabb has started for the Eagles since the 2000 season. In that time, the Eagles offense has never ranked higher than 10th in the league in yards gained. In fact, their 10th-place rank in 2002 was easily their best; in their two previous seasons, they were 17th in a 32-team league. They rank 31st so far in 2003.

In contrast, the Eagles defense in those four seasons has never ranked lower than 10th in yards allowed. In 2001, they were seventh; in 2002 they were fourth; this year they're fifth. It shouldn't take a football Einstein to see that the Eagles' strength over the past few seasons has been on defense, and Limbaugh is no football Einstein, which is probably why he spotted it.

The news that the Eagles defense has "carried" them over this period should be neither surprising nor controversial to anyone with access to simple NFL statistics—or for that matter, with access to a television. Yet, McNabb has received an overwhelming share of media attention and thus the credit. Now why is this?

Let's look at a quarterback with similar numbers who also plays for a team with a great defense. I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson one of the best quarterbacks in pro football—which is how McNabb is often referred to. In fact, I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson, on the evidence of his 10-year NFL career, much more than mediocre. Yet, Johnson's NFL career passer rating, as of last Sunday, is 7.3 points higher than McNabb's (84.8 to 77.5), he has completed his passes at a higher rate (61.8 percent to 56.4 percent), and has averaged significantly more yards per pass (6.84 to 5.91). McNabb excels in just one area, running, where he has gained 2,040 yards and scored 14 touchdowns to Johnson's 467 and seven. But McNabb has also been sacked more frequently than Johnson—more than once, on average, per game, which negates much of the rushing advantage.

In other words, in just about every way, Brad Johnson has been a more effective quarterback than McNabb and over a longer period.

And even if you say the stats don't matter and that a quarterback's job is to win games, Johnson comes out ahead. Johnson has something McNabb doesn't, a Super Bowl ring, which he went on to win after his Bucs trounced McNabb's Eagles in last year's NFC championship game by a score of 27-10. The Bucs and Eagles were regarded by everyone as having the two best defenses in the NFL last year. When they played in the championship game, the difference was that the Bucs defense completely bottled up McNabb while the Eagles defense couldn't stop Johnson.

In terms of performance, many NFL quarterbacks should be ranked ahead of McNabb. But McNabb has represented something special to all of us since he started his first game in the NFL, and we all know what that is.

Limbaugh is being excoriated for making race an issue in the NFL. This is hypocrisy. I don't know of a football writer who didn't regard the dearth of black NFL quarterbacks as one of the most important issues in the late '80s and early '90s. (The topic really caught fire after 1988, when Doug Williams of the Washington Redskins became the first black quarterback to win a Super Bowl.)

So far, no black quarterback has been able to dominate a league in which the majority of the players are black. To pretend that many of us didn't want McNabb to be the best quarterback in the NFL because he's black is absurd. To say that we shouldn't root for a quarterback to win because he's black is every bit as nonsensical as to say that we shouldn't have rooted for Jackie Robinson to succeed because he was black. (Please, I don't need to be reminded that McNabb's situation is not so difficult or important as Robinson's—I'm talking about a principle.)

Consequently, it is equally absurd to say that the sports media haven't overrated Donovan McNabb because he's black. I'm sorry to have to say it; he is the quarterback for a team I root for. Instead of calling him overrated, I wish I could be admiring his Super Bowl rings. But the truth is that I and a great many other sportswriters have chosen for the past few years to see McNabb as a better player than he has been because we want him to be.

Rush Limbaugh didn't say Donovan McNabb was a bad quarterback because he is black. He said that the media have overrated McNabb because he is black, and Limbaugh is right. He didn't say anything that he shouldn't have said, and in fact he said things that other commentators should have been saying for some time now. I should have said them myself. I mean, if they didn't hire Rush Limbaugh to say things like this, what they did they hire him for? To talk about the prevent defense? "

At the end of the day, Limbaugh was paid by ESPN to state his opinions. Whether you agree with him or disagree with him, he has a right to his opinion.

I for one think McNabb is a good QB. But, when he was out last year the #2, then #3 guys went a combined 4-1. So that does beg the question, is the Philly defense carrying this team. I would guess that 75-80% of Eagles fans would agree that the Philly D has all too often, won games for them.

This issue has been turned upside down by the media. They made a non-story, a story, by plastering it on the front page of every newspaper (sport section) in the US.

I think EVERYONE is missing the point on this one. McNabb is, arguably, the best QB in fantasy football. this has directly contributed to his reputation as being a great QB in real life, NFL football.

so, don't blame the liberal media... blame the roto geeks!

McNabb IS overated and not because he's black.

Actually you guys can kick my ass for saying this...but I think Rush is partially right.

Reason being is most Black Qb's I know have so much raw talent they add rushing games to their repetoire. White Qb's tend to not be able to run as well, and thus tend to be pocket qbs.

Statistically this makes it that white qb's are not hit as much and as hard thus they stay in the game longer (yearly and career wise). Elway, Montana, Young, Aikman...all pocket qb's. Cunningham, McNabb, Vick...all of them run.

Who was that kick as qb for FSU in about 94..I loved that guy...he got injured.

Remember when Dusty baker made that comment about Darker skin people fairing better during day games, science can prove him right...I think it can in this situation also. People are just overreacting because Rush is White.


And people...I'm asian.

I agree with you in general, Konichiwaneko, but I have a slightly different take. Do you think Black QBs run because they have so much raw talent, or does the media focus on black QBs that run? In other words, perhaps we think black QBs can run because comparatively less attention is paid to classic pocket passers that are black.

I ask because I don't think that black QBs can necessarily run better or throw worse than white QBs, but that the media plays up black QBs that do run in a way to somehow make them distinct, different. In their early careers Young and Rich Gannon were considered "running quarterbacks" as well. Elway was, by yesteryear's standard, a good running quarterback. By today's standards he's a snail! In contrast, Warren Moon, in his long (Hall of Fame-bound) career, was more of a classic pocket quarterback. Steve McNair has significantly better mechanics than Donovan McNabb, but less attention. Vick, well, is Vick. QB or not were he not injured he'd be battling Dante Hall for highlight reels on SportsCenter.

Or, how about this? Consider the career of journeyman quarterback Jeff Blake in comparison to McNabb. Better QB rating, about the same completion percentage, higher yards per attempt, but lower touchdown-interception ratio. And, of course, since Blake isn't a running quarterback, less rushing touchdowns on average. In part, Blake has had an awful supporting cast, but he's actually a fairly solid backup quarterback. And there lies my case -- Blake, a non-running quarterback with similar numbers to McNabb, is considered a journeyman backup. McNabb, with a dash of running and a significantly better supporting cast, is hailed as one of the best in the NFL. So, I ask, if we hypothetically insert Jeff Blake into Donovan McNabb's place, would he be the one deep in the playoffs? Or does that little touch of running bring that much to the Eagles' offense? And if not, then is he not a bit overrated?

Mostly I fear that the media, by overexaggerating the advantage that a mobile quarterback brings, are forcing black quarterbacks to conform to their own little vision, so much that we think the only good black quarterbacks are the ones who can run. And that would be terribly racist. As an example, allow me to point you to Randall Cunningham's incredible season with the Vikings -- who knew he could throw? (Ignore the following season, of course) And what potential black Joe Montanas or John Elways have been passed by because we are looking for black running quarterbacks rather than just quarterbacks? Were we looking for a running quarterback and got a Kordell Stewart when a black Peyton Manning was right in front of our faces?

A lot of questions, no satisfying answers. But at least, to me, despite being a world-class moron, Rush is right in this instance. As they say, even stopped clocks are right twice a day.

-- Alvin

It's probably true that the media gives McNabb extra credit for being a mobile QB, but I don't think it's unwarranted. Too many people look at QB ratings alone to judge QBs. Those ratings, however, fail to take into account a QB's rushing ability. So although Vick and McNabb may not have the highest QB raing or best passing stats, their ability to run the ball and save broken plays gives them that extra dimension that helps their teams suceed.

Back to Rush: he said the media overrates McNabb becauses he's black, not because he's a mobile QB. Rush never provided any evidence for this other than invoking the "liberal media" boogeyman he hates so much. The only football guy I've seen support Rush is this Sports Nut guy, whose name really says it all. Most people who support him admit they know nothing about football, but that he could be right since they know there's a liberal media. Sorry, but Rush is wrong, period.

Just look at the situation for the Arkansas Razorbacks. They have 2 QBs: Matt Jones, a white mobile QB, and Ryan Sorahan, a white pocket QB. While Sorahan is the better passer, Jones is loved by the media, fans, and coaches. It's obviously not because of his skin color. It's because he brings excitement to the game and gives the Hogs a better chance to win with his running ability. That's exactly what McNabb brings to the Eagles.

dy156,

I think you just about hit it on the head. I did some VERY ROUGH estimates on my own at NFL.com and using about 10 different QB's Plummer, Brooks, Manning, Garcia, Montana, just to name a few stat wise McNabb DID NOT come out that much ahead if at all vs. these guys like I said it was very rough and not the most accurate data crunching around. Philly's DEF deserves more credit than they get for helping carry them along the past few years.

I agree, anytime you interject race into an argument, automatically the slippery slope pops up. Even if the intended comment is perceived as harmless, everyone takes his or her own interpretation of your statement. Rush is intelligent, and he should have known better than to enter the realm or race, especially over such a trivial issue as football. I guess he forgot about what happened to ole Jimmy the Greek.