Sports still teach people to become better people... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

gov135 · 09-15-2003, 06:28 AM

http://www.ottawadailytimes.com/news...toryid=9002512

Cru's next opponent wins via forfeit
Confederate flag invokes controversy at Stronghurst Southern

STRONGHURST (AP) — A Chicago charter school with an overwhelmingly black student body has forfeited Saturday’s scheduled football game at Stronghurst Southern High School in this Henderson County community because of Southern’s traditional display of a Confederate flag.

Stronghurst Southern’s nickname is the Rebels, and the school mascot, dressed as a Confederate soldier, carries the Stars and Bars near the end zone after each home-team touchdown.

Southern was scheduled for a visit from the Longwood Campus of Chicago International Charter School, but Bill Ham, Longwood’s coach and athletic director, notified officials at Southern on Wednesday that he intended to forfeit. The decision was approved by other officials at Longwood.

Next Saturday afternoon, Marquette is scheduled to host Stronghurst Southern in a game at Gould Stadium.

Ham said Southern coach Scott Dillard telephoned him on Tuesday to ask if the Confederate flag ritual would bother his players, who are from Chicago’s South Side.

“Our kids were kind of shocked,” Ham told the Chicago Tribune. “They kind of looked at me, and a few had their mouths open. This can’t really be true.

“Pretty soon they said, ‘No coach, we don’t want to do that. We don’t want them to do that.”’

Ham said that in a later conversation he had with Dillard, the Southern coach said the flag would be excluded from Saturday’s game, but Ham and Longwood Director of Schools Robert Lang decided to forfeit anyway, saying unhappy Southern fans might be tempted to make comments that could lead to an unpleasant incident.

Beth Delaney, executive director of the Chicago Charter School Foundation, said she approved of the decision to forfeit.

“Those practices are not conducive to the environment in which we want our students to play,” Delaney said.

Charles Barber, superintendent of Southern Community Unit District 120, released a statement Friday which made no mention of the flag. Barber said the game had been canceled because of Southern’s mascot. Barber said there was no malicious intent in choosing a Confederate soldier as a mascot, which he said was done in response to a rival school’s use of a Union soldier.

Will Bavery, who coached football at Southern for 20 years until his retirement last year, said the use of the flag had no racial connotations. He also questioned Ham’s motives.

“I have a problem with him wanting to make headlines because he does not want to play a football game,” Bavery said.

Illinois High School Association Executive Director Marty Hickman said Friday the flag was inappropriate and supported Longwood’s decision to forfeit.

Hickman said the IHSA would investigate the matter further.

____________________________________________________

It's nice to see that some schools and coaches still value growing young men and women over wins on the field.

The High School in question sports a Confederate flag, has a mascot that looks like something out of a history book, and encourages fans to bring small flags to the game.

This is ridiculous behavior. I don't care one bit what the connotations are or aren't, what it represents or doesn't. You simply don't intentionally engage in behavior that makes others feel this way - and at a high school! It's a shame that the student body and the athletes of this Southern High School are being told by the adults in their community that there is nothing wrong with these actions.

Again, however, it is nice to see adults in the other community showing their young adults some of the important lessons that sports can teach.

I posted this because every once in a while, you get a little down by hearing about the Clarett's, Baylor's, idiot coaches, etc. and its nice to see positives.

djtestudo · 09-15-2003, 07:50 AM

So...you are not allowed school spirit if your mascot was on the losing end of a war?

I see no positives in this. The AD of Southern was obviously willing to stop that tradition for this game if the other team wished it. I think that's bad enough, but could be a good decision. The forfeiting of the game is inexcusable. If the kids don't like what's going on, that's just more incentive to win.

gov135 · 09-15-2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by djtestudo
So...you are not allowed school spirit if your mascot was on the losing end of a war?

I hope you just missed the point. This is a school MASCOT. There isn't alot of real importance attached to it. I hope you could see that if one group finds something offensive and degrading, and the thing they find offensive and degrading is as stupid as a half-drunk eighteen year old in a clown suit then that thing should be eliminated.

Quote:

Originally posted by djtestudo
I see no positives in this. The AD of Southern was obviously willing to stop that tradition for this game if the other team wished it. I think that's bad enough, but could be a good decision. The forfeiting of the game is inexcusable. If the kids don't like what's going on, that's just more incentive to win.

You see no positives to a coach going to his team and asking them, as a group, to weigh the facts and make an adult decision?
You see no positives in a group decision to forego an athletic contest because of a perception that there is a greater end?

Hrothgar · 09-15-2003, 02:17 PM

I'm glad the Chicago team didn't play and I hope that Stronghurst, due to the media attention, changes their mascot to something not so offensive to alot of people.

Will Bavery, who coached football at Southern for 20 years until his retirement last year, said the use of the flag had no racial connotations. He also questioned Ham’s motives.

“I have a problem with him wanting to make headlines because he does not want to play a football game,” Bavery said.

This guy obviously doesn't get the big picture.

jfranco13 · 09-15-2003, 03:07 PM

Seems to me that if Longwood just showed up and played the game, there wouldn't be any media pressure on Southern to change, and things would just go on the way they are.

Instead Longwood makes a statement even though it costs their kids the game (I bet a lot of money they're not title contenders, or they probably wouldn't forfeit) and hopefully there WILL be pressure and maybe things would change.

I just can't believe this is ILLINOIS. Mississippi, maybe. Alabama, sure. But Illinois? I know they've got some southern in them down in the bottom half of the state, but jeez!!!

djtestudo · 09-15-2003, 08:31 PM

Here is my main question, which I forgot to mention earlier:

WHY NOW? The mascot has been at this school for a while, apparently, so why did this not happen years ago?

Will you complain about UNLV for being the Rebels?

And, if you read the article, the players just wanted the flag tradition stopped for this game. It was the coach that forfeited the game. If I was a player, I'd be pissed at the coach.

Spartak · 09-15-2003, 09:51 PM

About time! The Confederate flag is akin to the swastika imo. (Well not as much, but still, think of what it represents, I bet African Americans find it as offensive as most people find the swastika).

gov135 · 09-16-2003, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by djtestudo
WHY NOW? The mascot has been at this school for a while, apparently, so why did this not happen years ago?

Why not now?

I think sometimes we forget that only three decades ago the struggle for equal rights in this country was polarizing America. Now that we've come a bit farther over those decades, perhaps the time is now.

And I didn't originally post this as a right or wrong issue about the Confederate flag. Instead, I was impressed by the way the Chicago team acted. They put beliefs ahead of the game. They used a democratic process to decide their course of action. Again, i feel this is a story about what is correct with sports.

djtestudo · 09-16-2003, 06:11 PM

No they didn't. They decided as a team to request that the tradition be stopped. The coach decided to forfeit the game.

If I were on the team, I'd be severely pissed right now.

filtherton · 09-16-2003, 06:33 PM

It is ridiculous that a tradition like this even exists.
A tradition that celebrates the fight for slavery.
A tradition that celebrates people who, by today's standards, could only be considered traitors and terrorists.
A tradition and mascot that celebrates war and the killing of american soldiers.
(where's the vietcong-inspired mascot?)
I'm impressed by the decision too. I'm baffled by people who in the name of tradition insist on celebrating things that they should be ashamed of.

tangledweb · 09-16-2003, 06:49 PM

I hate to get involved in this but where do you draw the line?

If we are dropping everything that may offend or be offensive then no other teams should play the BRAVES or the REDSKINS because native americans might be offended.

I do not belittle the fact that the confederate flag is both a symbol of hatred and heritage to many, but this doesn't seem to be the main issue here.

The coach and an administrator decided to show their opinion of the confederate flag and the schools mascot - and they are entitled to. The Rebel mascot was chosen to be the opposite of the school arch-rivals mascot - a Union soldier. This doesn't seem to be hate related or motivated and it hasn't been an issue before.

At the risk of sounding like an asshole, I think everyone just needs to stop being so thin-skinned and play football.

09-15-2003, 06:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
gov135 Junkie Location: Midwest	Sports still teach people to become better people... http://www.ottawadailytimes.com/news...toryid=9002512 Cru's next opponent wins via forfeit Confederate flag invokes controversy at Stronghurst Southern STRONGHURST (AP) — A Chicago charter school with an overwhelmingly black student body has forfeited Saturday’s scheduled football game at Stronghurst Southern High School in this Henderson County community because of Southern’s traditional display of a Confederate flag. Stronghurst Southern’s nickname is the Rebels, and the school mascot, dressed as a Confederate soldier, carries the Stars and Bars near the end zone after each home-team touchdown. Southern was scheduled for a visit from the Longwood Campus of Chicago International Charter School, but Bill Ham, Longwood’s coach and athletic director, notified officials at Southern on Wednesday that he intended to forfeit. The decision was approved by other officials at Longwood. Next Saturday afternoon, Marquette is scheduled to host Stronghurst Southern in a game at Gould Stadium. Ham said Southern coach Scott Dillard telephoned him on Tuesday to ask if the Confederate flag ritual would bother his players, who are from Chicago’s South Side. “Our kids were kind of shocked,” Ham told the Chicago Tribune. “They kind of looked at me, and a few had their mouths open. This can’t really be true. “Pretty soon they said, ‘No coach, we don’t want to do that. We don’t want them to do that.”’ Ham said that in a later conversation he had with Dillard, the Southern coach said the flag would be excluded from Saturday’s game, but Ham and Longwood Director of Schools Robert Lang decided to forfeit anyway, saying unhappy Southern fans might be tempted to make comments that could lead to an unpleasant incident. Beth Delaney, executive director of the Chicago Charter School Foundation, said she approved of the decision to forfeit. “Those practices are not conducive to the environment in which we want our students to play,” Delaney said. Charles Barber, superintendent of Southern Community Unit District 120, released a statement Friday which made no mention of the flag. Barber said the game had been canceled because of Southern’s mascot. Barber said there was no malicious intent in choosing a Confederate soldier as a mascot, which he said was done in response to a rival school’s use of a Union soldier. Will Bavery, who coached football at Southern for 20 years until his retirement last year, said the use of the flag had no racial connotations. He also questioned Ham’s motives. “I have a problem with him wanting to make headlines because he does not want to play a football game,” Bavery said. Illinois High School Association Executive Director Marty Hickman said Friday the flag was inappropriate and supported Longwood’s decision to forfeit. Hickman said the IHSA would investigate the matter further. ____________________________________________________ It's nice to see that some schools and coaches still value growing young men and women over wins on the field. The High School in question sports a Confederate flag, has a mascot that looks like something out of a history book, and encourages fans to bring small flags to the game. This is ridiculous behavior. I don't care one bit what the connotations are or aren't, what it represents or doesn't. You simply don't intentionally engage in behavior that makes others feel this way - and at a high school! It's a shame that the student body and the athletes of this Southern High School are being told by the adults in their community that there is nothing wrong with these actions. Again, however, it is nice to see adults in the other community showing their young adults some of the important lessons that sports can teach. I posted this because every once in a while, you get a little down by hearing about the Clarett's, Baylor's, idiot coaches, etc. and its nice to see positives.

09-15-2003, 07:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	So...you are not allowed school spirit if your mascot was on the losing end of a war? I see no positives in this. The AD of Southern was obviously willing to stop that tradition for this game if the other team wished it. I think that's bad enough, but could be a good decision. The forfeiting of the game is inexcusable. If the kids don't like what's going on, that's just more incentive to win. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

09-15-2003, 02:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
Hrothgar He's My Girl Location: The Champagne Douche	I'm glad the Chicago team didn't play and I hope that Stronghurst, due to the media attention, changes their mascot to something not so offensive to alot of people. Will Bavery, who coached football at Southern for 20 years until his retirement last year, said the use of the flag had no racial connotations. He also questioned Ham’s motives. “I have a problem with him wanting to make headlines because he does not want to play a football game,” Bavery said. This guy obviously doesn't get the big picture. __________________ The fortunes of war favored Hrothgar.

09-15-2003, 03:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
jfranco13 Crazy Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Seems to me that if Longwood just showed up and played the game, there wouldn't be any media pressure on Southern to change, and things would just go on the way they are. Instead Longwood makes a statement even though it costs their kids the game (I bet a lot of money they're not title contenders, or they probably wouldn't forfeit) and hopefully there WILL be pressure and maybe things would change. I just can't believe this is ILLINOIS. Mississippi, maybe. Alabama, sure. But Illinois? I know they've got some southern in them down in the bottom half of the state, but jeez!!! __________________ We may lose, and we may win, but we will never be here again.

09-15-2003, 08:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Here is my main question, which I forgot to mention earlier: WHY NOW? The mascot has been at this school for a while, apparently, so why did this not happen years ago? Will you complain about UNLV for being the Rebels? And, if you read the article, the players just wanted the flag tradition stopped for this game. It was the coach that forfeited the game. If I was a player, I'd be pissed at the coach. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

09-15-2003, 09:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
Spartak Bang bang Location: New Zealand	About time! The Confederate flag is akin to the swastika imo. (Well not as much, but still, think of what it represents, I bet African Americans find it as offensive as most people find the swastika). __________________ I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

09-16-2003, 06:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	No they didn't. They decided as a team to request that the tradition be stopped. The coach decided to forfeit the game. If I were on the team, I'd be severely pissed right now. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

09-16-2003, 06:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	It is ridiculous that a tradition like this even exists. A tradition that celebrates the fight for slavery. A tradition that celebrates people who, by today's standards, could only be considered traitors and terrorists. A tradition and mascot that celebrates war and the killing of american soldiers. (where's the vietcong-inspired mascot?) I'm impressed by the decision too. I'm baffled by people who in the name of tradition insist on celebrating things that they should be ashamed of.

09-16-2003, 06:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
tangledweb slightly impaired Location: Down South	I hate to get involved in this but where do you draw the line? If we are dropping everything that may offend or be offensive then no other teams should play the BRAVES or the REDSKINS because native americans might be offended. I do not belittle the fact that the confederate flag is both a symbol of hatred and heritage to many, but this doesn't seem to be the main issue here. The coach and an administrator decided to show their opinion of the confederate flag and the schools mascot - and they are entitled to. The Rebel mascot was chosen to be the opposite of the school arch-rivals mascot - a Union soldier. This doesn't seem to be hate related or motivated and it hasn't been an issue before. At the risk of sounding like an asshole, I think everyone just needs to stop being so thin-skinned and play football.