Stompy

If nascar is a sport, then so is poker! There's tons of those celebrity poker games on TV all the time.

There's strategy in poker, too.

You got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.

There's strategy in Counter-strike, so that is a sport, too. So is Starcraft.

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dksuddeth

no, poker is a game, like chess or checkers. It requires ONLY strategic thinking and NOT 2.5 to 4 hours of physical activity other than shuffling, dealing, and throwing chips.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Stompy

Then racing isn't a sport because it requires no physical activity other than pushing a gas pedal and turning a steering wheel!

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cdnjeepin

Well, All I can say is my X-wife used to ask us all the time, Why the hell are you watching that stupid stuff..all they do is go around and around and around..

One year while on vacation, I took he to Pocono raceway..showed her how the team all worked together, to get cars prepared, how much work was involved and then the race..she was amazed..totally hooked on it after that...I think she ended up watching it more then me.

To me its a sport, I know I could never do the things the drivers or the pit crews do, hell I can't afford to lose 10 lbs of fluids a race..

I prefer it over F1 since atleast in Nascar there is no traction control, no computer controled engines, u don't sit in the pit box and adjust the car..when the car comes in for a pit stop is when u make the adjustments..and if they are wrong..well u have to wait till the next stop..not just keep making adjustments from a computer in F1

dksuddeth

I'll refer you to my challenge here - http://officer.com/article/article.j...ion=1&id=21750

and my creative writing here. This is loosely based on my real experience in amateur racing.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...3&postcount=72

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

raeanna74

I never watched racing until about 5 years ago. Never was interested. I always thought that going around in circles for 3 and 4 hours would be a total borefest. Guess what I sat down and watched with hubby, I talked to him, drilled him with questions galore and read the articles in the papers. I've learned that it's more interesting to me than some other sports even.

The question has been raised that racing and specifically Nascar track racing isn't a sport because it's not physically demanding. Those guys go for 4 hours with nothing but a sip of water on the pit stops and no pee breaks. They're sitting in a tight seat for 4 hours straight in insulated fire suits and no A/C in the summer but the wind piped into their helmets. Sometimes I've heard that the temperatures inside their cars (not inside their firesuits even) can be over 100 degrees F in the summer races. Just one hour in temps like that in a insulated suit could break some people. They frequently suffer dehydration and fatigue. You try holding a wheel steady for 4 hours straight and breaking, shifting, and accelerating several times every minute. You try staying alert for any change in the track, in your car, and in the other racers cars for 4 hours straight. That is mentally demanding. You are constantly discussing strategy and how your car feels with your pit crew over the radio. The drivers have a LOT of work ahead of them. I've seen some drivers who had not been at the top of their game physically before a race then after a race taken to the medical center because they were so severely dehydrated. Then to top that off - you try going through a wreck. Those guys go through quite a beating then even with the restrants and roll cage.

Don't knock it till you try it. Watch it a while, read up on it, and try to understand what's going on. Then come back and discuss it more maturely.

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snowy

I'm more of an F1 fan than a NASCAR girl myself...but I must say, if racing is not a sport, then why does Michael Schumacher train for it PHYSICALLY as if it were? He works out as much physically as any other professional athlete in another sport does.

Going through a race is mentally and physically exhausting. Imagine how you feel after four to six hours of driving. Now imagine doing that 4 to 6 hours at 100+ mph with other cars around you doing the same. Imagine trying to invoke some kind of strategy while doing so.

Racing is a sport.

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mingusfingers

Oh man. Nascar, as far as I can see, has been justified as a sport. But punishment? You could set a guy in a hot room just to dehydrate him, and he'd come out looking like the nascar driver. Nascar drivers do not compare to other athletes that play sports like rugby, football, or even soccer.

Edit: Did I just get trolled?

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ShaniFaye

Why do those of us that do consider it a sport really care about the opinions of people who think its only "going around in cirlces"?

If they say that, they really dont know anything about the SPORT

Im still waiting on someone to tell me why horseracing is a sport if nascar isnt

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ARTelevision

Mexico’s Athlete of the Year (1999) to Race in NASCAR

Adrian Fernandez, world-famous race car driver, was voted Mexico’s Athlete of the Year in 1999. On Sunday March, 6, 2005, he will be racing in NASCAR’s first extra-US point race.

The salient point here is that a country that admires pure athletic ability and who honors its soccer players, for example, like minor deities, awarded the prized Athlete of the Year title to a race car driver. And he’ll be in a NASCAR vehicle tomorrow.

……………………..


from http://<br /> http://www.latinospo...Bio.html<br />

Adrian Fernandez Mier
Birth date: April 20, 1965
Birthplace: Mexico City, Mexico

Adrian Fernandez began his career by racing motorcross at age eight. He entered his first auto race in 1981 at the "24 Hours of Mexico" and at the age of 15 he made the permanent move to cars in 1982. From 1982 to 1984 Fernandez competed in the Formula Vee Championship taking the title in '83 and '84. He also raced in the Formula K Series in 1984, competing in that series through 1986. He finished in the top four in the standings all three years in Formula K.

In 1987 he ran one race in the Benelux Formula Ford 1600 Championship, one British RAC Formula Ford 1600 Championship race and competed in the Formula Ford Festival at Brands Hatch. From 1988-89 he ran the British RAC and Esso Formula Ford 1600 Championship series before moving to the International F3 Championship for 1990 and 1991. He captured the Formula 3 title in '91.
In 1992 Fernandez came to the United States to compete in the Firestone Indy Lights Championship (now the PPG-Dayton Indy Lights Championship). He finished third in the points winning four races, a rookie record, and took the "Indy Lights Rookie of the Year" honors and made more than two million dollars in prize earnings.

His talent apparent, Fernandez made the jump to CART cars in 1993 competing in five races for Galles Racing International. He ran his first full CART season in 1994 with Galles finishing 13th and capturing the "Marco Magania" and "Luchador Olmeca" awards and the "JAC" trophy for "Best Driver" outside Mexico. Competing again with Galles in 1995, Fernandez finished 12th in the standings placing in the top ten nine times.

Fernandez moved to Tasman Motorsports in 1996. He had six top ten finishes, including his first career CART victory, en route to a 12th place finish in the points. The win in Toronto made him the first Mexican to win a CART event since Hector Rebaque in 1982. However, 1997 was a disappointing season for Fernandez. The Tasman team ran a Lola chassis which failed to perform to expectations. Through force of will, determination and talent, Fernandez battled to three top ten finishes and 18th place in the PPG Cup standings.

Fernandez joined Patrick Racing for the 1998 season and proved his ability to challenge for the championship. He enjoyed 14 top ten finishes with eight top five placements and two victories, Japan and Mid-Ohio, en route to a fourth place showing in the PPG Cup race during the 1998 Fed Ex Championship. He captured his first career pole at Michigan and led the championship race for the first time in his career. However, it was his victory during the Miller Lite 200 that gave Patrick Racing one of its most memorable moments when Fernandez stood atop the podium next to his teammate Scott Pruett. Fernandez was also named the "Athlete of the Year" in Mexico.

In 1999, enjoying his most successful season in the CART series, Adrian Fernandez behind the wheel of the #40 Tecate/Quaker State Reynard Ford-Cosworth completed the year fourth in the championship battle although he lead the points series early in the season for the first time in his CART career. He won in Motegi, Japan at the Firestone Firehawk 500 and at the Marlboro 500 Speedway in Fontana, California. In addition, he was selected to participate in the IROC series during 1999 where he competed against other top-named drivers including NASCAR drivers Jeff Gordon, Terry Labonte and Dale Earnhardt. Fernandez solid racing career which began in 1993, now has 80 total starts in the series. Of those starts he has finished in the top ten 41 times throughout his seven-year career.
…………………………..

This is one of those instances where I’d like to suggest to my good friends who do not consider NASCAR racing an athletic or sporting event to please be willing to open up their definitions of athletics and sport just a bit to include folks who compete in areas other than the ones traditionally associated with “sports” in their minds.

You might gain something in the process and, for the life of me, I can't imagine what would be lost by expanding a personal definition...

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Tophat665

All respect, Art, but I think that says more about the nature of Mexican Gov't in specific and Representative democracy in general. Naming a race car driver an athelete to please the populace doesn't make him an athelete any more than a crown and an English accent would make me Queen Elizabeth. It's the basic flaw of all democracies; if the majority is composed of baboons, they are still baboons, and being in the majority won't make them anything else.

Words mean things, and that is the problem here. Calling drivers atheletes is, to my mind, changing the definition of the word athelete. Do that enough, and, at length, we will no longer have a word for a person that tests their physical self against others doing the same.

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ARTelevision

So let me get this straight, TH - NASCAR is not about testing a physical self against others doing the same?

So the problem you are having is that there's a machine involved in this test?

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soccerchamp76

I have a problem with calling NASCAR a sport when a machine ultimately determines the winner. In baseball, the pitcher controls the ball, the batter controls the bat. In NASCAR, the engine determines the winner, and if your engine messes up, you are screwed.
Hockey - you control the stick, the puck
Football - a quarterback throws the football
Soccer - a player kicks the ball
NASCAR - a car is used

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Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

dksuddeth

a car may be used, but the thing does not drive itself. thats worse than apples and oranges. drivers screw up more than engines.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Tophat665

Art, it's not so much that a Machine is involved in the test as the machine is the largest part of the test. I view racing as a competition between mechanics, with the driver giving the product a brain. That is my principle argument.

So don't get me wrong, I think it is as fine and valid a competition as any. Indeed, one could, if one had a taste for it, put it on a par with sports, but when it is called a sport, that's a wrong to both racing and to sport.

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Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

kramus

That was very good, Cheese. Two points for you Actually, a lot can be said positive side for rodeo as well as Nascar, it just hasn't got the same level of mainstream support because the auto industry can really pump huge amounts of influence into auto racing, and machines turn a lot of guys cranks (if you forgive the metaphor). My take is that the whole shtick is simply more background noise or another layer of human interest and endeavor in our ever growing social foundation and if people can get a lot of fun and enjoyment out of it then good for them. Not my cup of tea but certainly not something I take issue with.

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I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

ARTelevision

Tophat, I posted this thread in GD: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...20#post1695720

I think the operative piece that responds to the situation at hand is:

"Even when I attend "sporting" events designed to highlight the unadorned facility of biology, I’m acutely aware of the artificial nature of play surfaces, implements of sport, the technology of gadgets that surround even the most "natural" activities, high-tech training tools, devices, diets, and medicine, bioengineered “athletes,” and environmental conditions that are intimately wrapped up in the relationship of humans and their culture/technologies."

Given that I see humanity as a bio/technological entity - I'd say our differences as regards the subject are a matter of degree and not of kind.

Always good to delve more deeply into a subject like this.
Thanks...

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cyrnel

Driving on the street, even street racing at triple digits, provides no sense of what's required for a couple hours of full tilt competition against qualified opponents. Yes, even ovals are tough. The challenges change from road courses, but it's exhausting, requires precision, and is entirely unforgiving. That wall looks much different up close at speed.

Endurance, baja, and rally are a step beyond. The combination of physical and mental endurance for extended durations is unique, and what's required of any of the front-runners to have a career. The car is as important, but neither can show more than fluke wins without top performance from the other.

Nothing like the realization that a simple moment (fatique, mechanical, brain fade) can send you launching into the wall or weeds only to be picked up by the other guys you took with you. Watching thousand$ evaporate in an instant while hoping for as few injuries as possible only enhances the experience.

Tophat, you're really digging yourself in with the sophomoric bs. If you can come back from a week of driving school and run consecutive laps within 5 seconds of a related series average, and continue to fling this nonsense, then I'll upgrade my opinion to "stubborn".

Edit: Just to help frame the challenge, 5 seconds is easily a class off pace. Should be easy, right?

lordpoopshank

Definitely a sport