if baseball had a SALARY CAP? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

cheesemoney · 08-27-2003, 01:08 AM

Who would be the worst team?
How bad would the yank's really be?

The A's would obviously be the best team in baseball (they may be now, with a 50 million dollar payroll).

The Met's would probably have to be the worst, when they can't get it done with almost 3 times the A's salary.

What do you guys think?
Cheese

duhgravy · 08-27-2003, 04:54 AM

I really don't know who would be the best or worst. But i.m.o baseball needs a salary cap if they ever plan on bring baseball back as Americas favorite past time. Baseball now is too one sided with a few that fall through the cracks, like the A's. I hope they take it all, and that is only because I hate the Yankees!

The_Dude · 08-27-2003, 06:14 AM

i know astros have a bunch of good players for much less than their worth.

i heard that the entire astros' lineup was worth as much as the yankee pitching staff.

MikeyChalupa · 08-27-2003, 07:00 AM

The NBA has had a salary cap since the 40's, but their "modern" salary cap has been in effect since the 1984-85 season. In the 18 seasons since the cap was instituted, only six teams have won an NBA title (LA, San Antonio, Houston, Chicago, Detroit, Boston). This list of cities includes the #2, 3, 4, 9, and 10th largest cities in the country. In major league baseball, since 1985, 12 teams have won a World Series. (Anaheim, New York Yankees, Arizona, Florida, Atlanta, Toronto, Minnesota, Cincinnati, Oakland, LA, New York Mets, and Kansas City Royals) which represent the #1, 2, 6, 36, 39, 41, 45, and 47th largest cities in the country. Cinncinati isn't in the top 50. Drop the New York teams and LA, and you have a list of teams complaining about the need for a salary cap.

-Mikey

djtestudo · 08-27-2003, 07:01 AM

There is no real way to tell who would be best and worst. You still have to account for mismanagement in the front office, talent in the minor league systems, etc.

hfw01 · 08-27-2003, 10:00 AM

Having a salary cap would bring teams like the Yankees in line with the rest of the league. Granted you can spend like the Mets and be terrible or the Yankees and be great, but even the Yankees make mistakes, they just don't have to live with them. When a small market team makes a big payroll mistake, they are frequently stuck with their error.

djtestudo · 08-27-2003, 10:06 AM

I don't fully believe that. Cashman is still a very good GM, so the team would still win all the time. Maybe they won't be able to spend the money, but they can spend the aura they have coming out the ass.

fearofmear · 08-27-2003, 04:04 PM

A salary cap would certainly bring the spending of the Yankees in some but the Yankees are a good team because of baseball decisions and their own farm system talent. The Yankeees do outspend everyone else and take on riduculous salries in the name of winning but they have made excellent decisions as well. The Mets spend alot of money and they suck. The A's don't spend alot and are doing great. Money is a huge factor for success but it isn't the only factor and a salary cap won't stop teams from making bad personnel/ baseball decisions.

djtestudo · 08-27-2003, 04:05 PM

Three words...New York Knicks

cheesemoney · 08-27-2003, 04:27 PM

three letters...
NFL

djtestudo · 08-27-2003, 04:28 PM

Blu2e354 · 08-27-2003, 08:43 PM

This would allow baseball to regain the title of "national pastime" and take it away from the nfl

MikeyChalupa · 08-28-2003, 01:23 AM

MLBPA would have to agree to it, so it will never happen.

Owners would have to agree to it, so it will never happen.

-Mikey

djtestudo · 08-28-2003, 08:59 AM

The MLBPA might not. But since the proposal comes from the owners' side, and benifits them more then the players, I have an inkling they might agree with it.

MikeyChalupa · 08-28-2003, 09:56 AM

Steinbrenner will block it, just like he tried to block the luxury tax. He eventually agreed to it because a salary cap won't hold down the Yankees, just like luxury tax revenue sharing won't. If baseball EVER gets a cap, it would be an NBA-style soft cap with exemptions, or an NFL-style cap with penalties. Either way Steinbrenner won't want to deal with either, but would easily make do if he had to.

-Mikey

MikeyChalupa · 08-28-2003, 10:01 AM

What baseball needs is a MINIMUM salary cap. That would prevent firesales like we saw in Cincinnati and Pittsburgh this year. It would force owners and GM's to field a team that is competitive, not take the team's income and pocket it at the expense of the team and fans. Owning a major league franchise is not cheap, that's why none of us do. If you aren't willing to put the money into your team, fucking sell it to someone who will.

-Mikey

JoeyB · 08-28-2003, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeyChalupa
What baseball needs is a MINIMUM salary cap. That would prevent firesales like we saw in Cincinnati and Pittsburgh this year. It would force owners and GM's to field a team that is competitive, not take the team's income and pocket it at the expense of the team and fans. Owning a major league franchise is not cheap, that's why none of us do. If you aren't willing to put the money into your team, fucking sell it to someone who will.

-Mikey

Thank you Mikey...once again, you brought sanity to the party.

I have no problem with a salary cap. If an organization wants to limit the amount of spending to increase competition, who am I to argue?

However....there should be a minimum standard for teams such as Detroit, Cincinnati and Tampa Bay. (by the way, since when is Detroit a SMALL market city???)

If you're not willing to invest enough money to be competitive, you have a choice, sell the team or fold. Every few years, there is a team which explodes to the top with a small payroll. This year it's Kansas City--and I think it's a wonderful story, but there are too many teams content with winning about .478 of their games, as long as they turn a bit of a profit.

Of course, a profit is the goal of any business....but sports is not like any other business. It's a combination of profit and success in the standings. Both work in tandem.

If you spend money, you can make money....if you make money, you can spend money.

If your starting staff makes as much as Albert Belle is collecting while sitting at home....something is wrong.

Begora21 · 08-28-2003, 04:45 PM

agreed this will never happen unless ther is some major work stoppage for a prolonged period of time and the union splits. There's just too much money being thrown around now.

But if it somehow did happen, yeah the A's would be great, the Royals would be in great shape, Twins also.... I'd say the Cubs would be tops in the NL, they've got some great young studs...

cheesemoney · 08-28-2003, 08:24 PM

I'm sorry, but cashman's made enough mistakes to bring down just about every other team in the league, outside of the mets, mariners, and braves.

Billy Beane, with the A's, has made ONE mistake. Jermaine Dye has about 10 mil/yr salary, has been injured since breaking his leg in the playoffs in years past on a hard line drive to the leg, and hasn't been the same since. Shit, they coulda picked up a couple of Tejadas, a Rod Beck, and another Eric Chavez and maybe throw in a couple of Zitos for that amount of money.

Dye currently represents 1/5 of the A's entire payroll.
That said, they are first in the AL west, and have beat the Yanks in season play this year.
I personally don't know why Cashman, with all his money, didn't pick up Arod and move Jeter to second and put soriano in left.

God knows Jeter is in the worst third of fielders in the league with his 3.7 assists per game or so, has no range, but would make a decent second baseman.

God knows the yanks made enough mistakes at third that they coulda just signed Arod, stuck Jeter at third, and not had to purchase Booney at third.

Shiat, I almost feel sorry for Cashman, cause he can't do right, being that he must win it all AND dominate, which the yanks just aren't doing enough of (I'm talking winning way over 100 games Mariners style). And if he loses in the post-season, he outta be fired.
They're lucky BK Kim is in love with blowing saves the way of Armando Benitez (good move getting rid of that guy, Cashman).

Cheese

djtestudo · 08-28-2003, 08:28 PM

Anyone else read Fair Ball by Bob Costas? He devotes most of the book to the changes he'd make to baseball. Salary cap, salary floor, slight realignment is all covered so well that he would be my vote for next commissioner.

08-27-2003, 01:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
cheesemoney Loser Location: Paradise	if baseball had a SALARY CAP? Who would be the worst team? How bad would the yank's really be? The A's would obviously be the best team in baseball (they may be now, with a 50 million dollar payroll). The Met's would probably have to be the worst, when they can't get it done with almost 3 times the A's salary. What do you guys think? Cheese

08-27-2003, 06:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i know astros have a bunch of good players for much less than their worth. i heard that the entire astros' lineup was worth as much as the yankee pitching staff. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-27-2003, 07:01 AM	#5 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	There is no real way to tell who would be best and worst. You still have to account for mismanagement in the front office, talent in the minor league systems, etc. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

08-27-2003, 10:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	I don't fully believe that. Cashman is still a very good GM, so the team would still win all the time. Maybe they won't be able to spend the money, but they can spend the aura they have coming out the ass. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

08-27-2003, 04:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Three words...New York Knicks __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

08-27-2003, 04:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
duhgravy Upright	I really don't know who would be the best or worst. But i.m.o baseball needs a salary cap if they ever plan on bring baseball back as Americas favorite past time. Baseball now is too one sided with a few that fall through the cracks, like the A's. I hope they take it all, and that is only because I hate the Yankees!

08-27-2003, 07:00 AM	#4 (permalink)
MikeyChalupa Squid Location: USS George Washington	The NBA has had a salary cap since the 40's, but their "modern" salary cap has been in effect since the 1984-85 season. In the 18 seasons since the cap was instituted, only six teams have won an NBA title (LA, San Antonio, Houston, Chicago, Detroit, Boston). This list of cities includes the #2, 3, 4, 9, and 10th largest cities in the country. In major league baseball, since 1985, 12 teams have won a World Series. (Anaheim, New York Yankees, Arizona, Florida, Atlanta, Toronto, Minnesota, Cincinnati, Oakland, LA, New York Mets, and Kansas City Royals) which represent the #1, 2, 6, 36, 39, 41, 45, and 47th largest cities in the country. Cinncinati isn't in the top 50. Drop the New York teams and LA, and you have a list of teams complaining about the need for a salary cap. -Mikey

08-27-2003, 10:00 AM	#6 (permalink)
hfw01 Tilted Location: Mandeville, LA	Having a salary cap would bring teams like the Yankees in line with the rest of the league. Granted you can spend like the Mets and be terrible or the Yankees and be great, but even the Yankees make mistakes, they just don't have to live with them. When a small market team makes a big payroll mistake, they are frequently stuck with their error.

08-27-2003, 04:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
fearofmear Insane Location: Florida	A salary cap would certainly bring the spending of the Yankees in some but the Yankees are a good team because of baseball decisions and their own farm system talent. The Yankeees do outspend everyone else and take on riduculous salries in the name of winning but they have made excellent decisions as well. The Mets spend alot of money and they suck. The A's don't spend alot and are doing great. Money is a huge factor for success but it isn't the only factor and a salary cap won't stop teams from making bad personnel/ baseball decisions.

08-27-2003, 04:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
cheesemoney Loser Location: Paradise	three letters... NFL

08-27-2003, 04:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	??? __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

08-27-2003, 08:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
Blu2e354 Crazy Location: Illinois	This would allow baseball to regain the title of "national pastime" and take it away from the nfl

08-28-2003, 01:23 AM	#13 (permalink)
MikeyChalupa Squid Location: USS George Washington	MLBPA would have to agree to it, so it will never happen. Owners would have to agree to it, so it will never happen. -Mikey

08-28-2003, 08:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	The MLBPA might not. But since the proposal comes from the owners' side, and benifits them more then the players, I have an inkling they might agree with it. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

08-28-2003, 09:56 AM	#15 (permalink)
MikeyChalupa Squid Location: USS George Washington	Steinbrenner will block it, just like he tried to block the luxury tax. He eventually agreed to it because a salary cap won't hold down the Yankees, just like luxury tax revenue sharing won't. If baseball EVER gets a cap, it would be an NBA-style soft cap with exemptions, or an NFL-style cap with penalties. Either way Steinbrenner won't want to deal with either, but would easily make do if he had to. -Mikey

08-28-2003, 10:01 AM	#16 (permalink)
MikeyChalupa Squid Location: USS George Washington	What baseball needs is a MINIMUM salary cap. That would prevent firesales like we saw in Cincinnati and Pittsburgh this year. It would force owners and GM's to field a team that is competitive, not take the team's income and pocket it at the expense of the team and fans. Owning a major league franchise is not cheap, that's why none of us do. If you aren't willing to put the money into your team, fucking sell it to someone who will. -Mikey

08-28-2003, 04:45 PM	#18 (permalink)
Begora21 Insane	agreed this will never happen unless ther is some major work stoppage for a prolonged period of time and the union splits. There's just too much money being thrown around now. But if it somehow did happen, yeah the A's would be great, the Royals would be in great shape, Twins also.... I'd say the Cubs would be tops in the NL, they've got some great young studs...

08-28-2003, 08:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
cheesemoney Loser Location: Paradise	I'm sorry, but cashman's made enough mistakes to bring down just about every other team in the league, outside of the mets, mariners, and braves. Billy Beane, with the A's, has made ONE mistake. Jermaine Dye has about 10 mil/yr salary, has been injured since breaking his leg in the playoffs in years past on a hard line drive to the leg, and hasn't been the same since. Shit, they coulda picked up a couple of Tejadas, a Rod Beck, and another Eric Chavez and maybe throw in a couple of Zitos for that amount of money. Dye currently represents 1/5 of the A's entire payroll. That said, they are first in the AL west, and have beat the Yanks in season play this year. I personally don't know why Cashman, with all his money, didn't pick up Arod and move Jeter to second and put soriano in left. God knows Jeter is in the worst third of fielders in the league with his 3.7 assists per game or so, has no range, but would make a decent second baseman. God knows the yanks made enough mistakes at third that they coulda just signed Arod, stuck Jeter at third, and not had to purchase Booney at third. Shiat, I almost feel sorry for Cashman, cause he can't do right, being that he must win it all AND dominate, which the yanks just aren't doing enough of (I'm talking winning way over 100 games Mariners style). And if he loses in the post-season, he outta be fired. They're lucky BK Kim is in love with blowing saves the way of Armando Benitez (good move getting rid of that guy, Cashman). Cheese

08-28-2003, 08:28 PM	#20 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Anyone else read Fair Ball by Bob Costas? He devotes most of the book to the changes he'd make to baseball. Salary cap, salary floor, slight realignment is all covered so well that he would be my vote for next commissioner. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun