Bruce Lee could kill me, but many could whoop his ass... - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

cheesemoney · 08-16-2003, 02:22 AM

Ok guys.... I am very glad to see all of the recent responses to this post... Must be a friday thing...

My take on bruce's lightening fast speed, is that it doesn't matter when you are gonna get taken down.

Ok, this is OLD news, but anyone that has studied MA even a bit in the last 10 - 15 years knows that kicks don't amount to much unless you
a) are timed, in an octagon, in an event where the ref stands you on your feet every min or so that you are on the ground and they deem you're punchin' some dude in the face and him squirmin' as "inactive"
b) kick some dude on the street that isn't versed in MA
c) dunno... you tell me when someone that has taken a full-contact mma class can get kicked.... my personal experience, its when a guy is absolutely outclassed or when a dude is tired as hell from floppin' around on the ground... see a)

I think that bruce was on the right track...
I think if he had sparred with Helio Gracie, Carle (or however you spell Carley)
He woulda worked more on his ground game...

Here's the thing.
When Brazilian Jiu-Jistsu first took the world it was an eye opener to us Americans.

Then the Jiu-Jistu guys got rocked when big, predominantly white people started cross training in wrestling, submission, and striking (read, mui-thai)

Now we're at a great point in MA when people realize that there is no answer. Bruce had the right idea with JKD, in that he'd accept anything.. unfortunately, his strategy wasn't really suited to a cage or one on one fight.

Too many BJJ players stress the importance of the guard and submissions from a bad "street" position.

Unfortunately, bruce's "students" get fucking rocked in any MMA sanctioned fight.

None have ever won anything in 1on1, to my knowledge.

Read, UFC, King of the Cage (KoC), Abu Dhabi (which, given , is purely submission), Pride (the biggie),
I could go on.

However, Bruce's philosophy, is right on... Try what is new, and see if it works for you. Unfortunately, he didn't get a chance to get worked over by a Brazilian in the 60's, or I think he woulda made a bunch of Bad assed JKD students, having incorporated what surely would have been a loss by submission into a new platform/principle.

Bruce was a bad assed dude who taught the Chinese (on the Islands) what was up, and brought MA to the west, for which I am grateful....

Reminds me of a more successful David Beckham trying to bring soccer to the American's. He's personable, he's on tv, but he wasn't in the top 5, even at the time.

You look at the history of his student's versus the MA teachers in the rest of the world, and you'll realize that I'm not wrong...
I hope.

We got Mark Coleman (wrestler)
Rodrigo Noguera (BJJ and Muai Thai)
Tito (wrestler turned puncher)
Vitor (Boxer, posing as a Jiu Jitsu Artist)

I dunno the last JKD fighter that I saw on the real scene, but he got spanked)

Some JKD guys won in the early days of UFC tho.

The real winners nowadays do follow Bruce's tradition though...

They' don't have a set, nameable style

BTW, anyone here ever get rocked by a good punch in an MMA event? I did, and it made me toss my cookies and give it up.

Like I said, Bruce would kick my fucking ass....

And I could bench press him 40 times.

Peace, and no disrespect.

Cheese

cheesemoney · 08-16-2003, 02:27 AM

I guess what all this rant is leading up to is that why, when we have far better current martial artists, do so many people look to the past? Is is a fixation, like so many people I know that--honest to god--wish they were samarai or something?

I know the past is fun, but some of you Lee supporters havta tell me you've been paying attention to the last 10 - 15 year.

Kerr, Igor, Coleman, Frye, Even the Shammy's...

Lemme know wassup!!!!!
Cheese

Shpoop · 08-17-2003, 05:53 PM

i once heard this, and i believe it to be true.

9 times out of 10 a mediocre wrestler will beat an expert at martial arts, because if the fight lasts past the first blow, it will end up on the ground

(that is for real fights, not 'matches')

Porkchop · 08-17-2003, 11:08 PM

This is a similar argument to old time boxers fighting today too small, advances in training etc. I have lots of respect for Bruce grew up watching his movies. So if you say Lee versus most fighters he would have a great chance.Take it as pound for pound A same size Lee versus some octagon other discipines, fighters there will be only winner.

cheesemoney · 08-27-2003, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shpoop
i once heard this, and i believe it to be true.

9 times out of 10 a mediocre wrestler will beat an expert at martial arts, because if the fight lasts past the first blow, it will end up on the ground

(that is for real fights, not 'matches')

Of course, all *real* (meaning crosstraining and modern) martial artists now learn wrestling / takedown defense and practice it.

I'd go so far as to say 19 out of 20 martial artists of a TKD style would get pummeled in a street fight by a wrestler.

But the great thing about tv and the internet is that now wrestling / submission / crosstraining is no longer a secret.

Aaron0000 · 08-28-2003, 02:39 PM

I dont know much about Martial Arts but from what Ive learned about Bruce Lee is that he would be anyone just because his style is the Intercepting Fist, meaning he trains to NEVER get hit. How could he lose?

cheesemoney · 08-28-2003, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aaron0000
I dont know much about Martial Arts but from what Ive learned about Bruce Lee is that he would be anyone just because his style is the Intercepting Fist, meaning he trains to NEVER get hit. How could he lose?

Lol. I forgot that he could never be hit. I take it all back.

Cheese

Lunchbox7 · 09-13-2003, 12:53 AM

Tom Slaven in his prime probably would of done some real damage. No one else really stands out in my mind.

Lunchbox7 · 09-13-2003, 12:54 AM

When two tigers fight one gets hurt and the other dies

Marius1 · 09-13-2003, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aaron0000
I dont know much about Martial Arts but from what Ive learned about Bruce Lee is that he would be anyone just because his style is the Intercepting Fist, meaning he trains to NEVER get hit. How could he lose?

An aikido master wouldn't try and hit hit him so there would be nothing to intercept.
Should Bruce try an offensive move his own energy would be turned against him despite all his speed and he'd be flung around like a rag doll.

AL9045 · 09-13-2003, 06:59 AM

Am I the only onen who doesn't know what the hell is going on?

.

Btw, I think Bruce Lee could probably beat anyone when he was his greatest, but we'll never know...

Battlefield · 09-13-2003, 01:36 PM

He could not win any fight. But if you look at what he did with what mother nature gave him he is bar none the best.

queedo · 04-17-2004, 12:37 PM

Bruce Lee was a awsome fighter, perhaps Royce Gracie might give him a good match

Strange Famous · 04-17-2004, 02:11 PM

me, if I had a baseball bat and he didnt.

anyone can lose a fight to almost anyone else in certain circumstances - if Bruce Lee boxed Roy Jones Jr he would lose, if it was a street fight he would win... if I fought Bruce Lee in a fair fight he would win, if I crept up behind him and smacked him with a bat I would win...

cheesemoney · 04-18-2004, 11:21 PM

Or you could slip him an advil... or whatever.... that was low.
/sorry

Vaultboy · 04-19-2004, 07:58 AM

I find it funny that all of you are putting Bruce Lee in an octagon. Why not put tito in an environment more suitable to lee's style?

or how about a match straight after 500 pushups and 500 situps? Do MMA fighters have enough stamina to fight lee then?

The fighters you mention all use modern training techniqies and aids, supplements and get medical attention superior to what lee had in his time. A truly fair would take all of that into consideration.

And then, I doubt anybody could beat him. Now, though, he could get his ass handed to him on a platter by quite a few guys. Its the same with any sport.

Could Navratilova beat Serena Williams? Probably. Or maybe not. Could Ayrton Senna beat Michael Schumacher? Maybe. but probably not.

Strange Famous · 04-19-2004, 10:22 AM

Thats always the question with any sport, you can't really compare era's

How good a cricketer would the Don be today? How could a boxer would Jack Johnson have been?

I honestly think a lot of Bruce Lee's legacy is myth, I am sure he was a skilled fighter, but I dont think its possible to be invincible - anyone can get hit right on the jaw and get knocked out, anyone can get beat on a given day.

And the style of the fight has to determine a lot, even if Bruce Lee trained as a boxer, if you put him in the ring with a peak Tyson he would have been destroyed, because he didnt have the size and strength and boxing is a fighting form that wouldnt allow him to make best use of the skills he would have over Tyson.

twotimesadingo · 04-19-2004, 01:00 PM

I tended to hold the prevailing belief as well. I thought that most traditional martial artsists would be ground to fucking hamburg by the MMAs of today. Bas Ruten.. I dunno. I have (had) a hard time thinking anyone who studied one traditional art exclusively could stand against him.

But then I went to see a friend's master perform in a Moo Duk Kwan training session. And I got to see my friend's master's teacher, a guy by the name of Kwan (i dun remember the first name). This Kwan character was maybe 4'9". Seriously. It was funny shit watching him instruct all these other black belts in what they were doing to train for their next tests and whatnot.

Then this Kwan guy takes a black belt - a master in his own right - aside, and proceeds to demonstrate what is called an "internal strike." The two square off, Kwan parries a punch, presses the palm of his hand against the black belt's chest, and the guy screams in sheer agony and flies backward ten fucking feet. He's dead unconscious. It's all happened faster than anyone can track. After the guy comes to, his dobak is taken off and his entire upper torse is the ugly purple of a serious bruise.

I think Mr. Lee could have done the same thing. You might not be into the whole "mental" thing that is concommittant with traditional martial arts, but I've actually seen what it can do with my own eyes. I think if Bas threw a combo at Bruce, or even Kwan, he'd be in for a hell of a surprise.

That's just my input.

whoizzy · 04-21-2004, 07:39 PM

When it comes to Bruce Lee in any form of combat, HE WILL NEVER LOSE. Reason being simple, he wasn't a great fighter because he studied Martial Arts, he was a great fighter because he studied everything, I mean EVERYTHING! From western boxing to fencing, he even took ballet to better his footwork, he was INVINCIBLE! Plus, Jeet Kun Do ISN'T EVEN A FIGHTING STYLE, it's a guidelines for self defense, so to speak, everybody should know that by now. Every Jeet Kun Do student fights different, the philosophy is simple, and anyone can do it. And last but not least, we can't forget that Bruce Lee is the same man that even mastered the basics of Gung Fu in a little under 24 hours; 3 inch punch; one of the strongest men pound for pound, period;plus mastered just about every other means of self defense as well, NOT JUST KUNG FU!!!

Anomaly_ · 04-21-2004, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twotimesadingo

Then this Kwan guy takes a black belt - a master in his own right - aside, and proceeds to demonstrate what is called an "internal strike." The two square off, Kwan parries a punch, presses the palm of his hand against the black belt's chest, and the guy screams in sheer agony and flies backward ten fucking feet. He's dead unconscious. It's all happened faster than anyone can track. After the guy comes to, his dobak is taken off and his entire upper torse is the ugly purple of a serious bruise.

I think Mr. Lee could have done the same thing. You might not be into the whole "mental" thing that is concommittant with traditional martial arts, but I've actually seen what it can do with my own eyes. I think if Bas threw a combo at Bruce, or even Kwan, he'd be in for a hell of a surprise.

That's just my input.

If any of these 3 inch punches worked, people would be using them in combat sports. You had better believe that. The reality is that they don't have practical application, which is why you never see them in any MMA fights. I'm most certain El Guapo could beat Bruce Lee and so could many other MMA fighters that are actually Lee's weight. Traditional martial arts have their place but their super secret techniques of devastation are pure myth. Boxing, wrestling, and jiu-jitsu may not be as elegant as Kung-Fu, but they work.

qtpye4u84 · 04-21-2004, 10:57 PM

I Like bruce lee.
I love Jet lee what about him.

streak_56 · 04-22-2004, 10:16 AM

Everyone should also remember (and I forget where I say this) that in some Bruce Lee movies they actually had to slow the camera speed down because he was moving too fast. I'm sure that he had some speed to him which made up for him size. I'm gonna side with Konichiwaneko on this one.

08-17-2003, 11:08 PM	#44 (permalink)
Porkchop Psycho Location: Good ol Blighty	This is a similar argument to old time boxers fighting today too small, advances in training etc. I have lots of respect for Bruce grew up watching his movies. So if you say Lee versus most fighters he would have a great chance.Take it as pound for pound A same size Lee versus some octagon other discipines, fighters there will be only winner. __________________ Be cool btch now btch be cool Sport 1976 Taxi Driver.

04-17-2004, 12:37 PM	#53 (permalink)
queedo Shodan	Bruce Lee was a awsome fighter, perhaps Royce Gracie might give him a good match __________________ If you think you can or you can't, you are right!

04-17-2004, 02:11 PM	#54 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	me, if I had a baseball bat and he didnt. anyone can lose a fight to almost anyone else in certain circumstances - if Bruce Lee boxed Roy Jones Jr he would lose, if it was a street fight he would win... if I fought Bruce Lee in a fair fight he would win, if I crept up behind him and smacked him with a bat I would win... __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

04-19-2004, 07:58 AM	#56 (permalink)
Vaultboy Addict Location: Third World	I find it funny that all of you are putting Bruce Lee in an octagon. Why not put tito in an environment more suitable to lee's style? or how about a match straight after 500 pushups and 500 situps? Do MMA fighters have enough stamina to fight lee then? The fighters you mention all use modern training techniqies and aids, supplements and get medical attention superior to what lee had in his time. A truly fair would take all of that into consideration. And then, I doubt anybody could beat him. Now, though, he could get his ass handed to him on a platter by quite a few guys. Its the same with any sport. Could Navratilova beat Serena Williams? Probably. Or maybe not. Could Ayrton Senna beat Michael Schumacher? Maybe. but probably not. __________________ "Failing tastes of bile and dog vomit. Pity any man that gets used to that taste."

04-19-2004, 10:22 AM	#57 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Thats always the question with any sport, you can't really compare era's How good a cricketer would the Don be today? How could a boxer would Jack Johnson have been? I honestly think a lot of Bruce Lee's legacy is myth, I am sure he was a skilled fighter, but I dont think its possible to be invincible - anyone can get hit right on the jaw and get knocked out, anyone can get beat on a given day. And the style of the fight has to determine a lot, even if Bruce Lee trained as a boxer, if you put him in the ring with a peak Tyson he would have been destroyed, because he didnt have the size and strength and boxing is a fighting form that wouldnt allow him to make best use of the skills he would have over Tyson. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

08-16-2003, 02:22 AM	#41 (permalink)
cheesemoney Loser Location: Paradise	Ok guys.... I am very glad to see all of the recent responses to this post... Must be a friday thing... My take on bruce's lightening fast speed, is that it doesn't matter when you are gonna get taken down. Ok, this is OLD news, but anyone that has studied MA even a bit in the last 10 - 15 years knows that kicks don't amount to much unless you a) are timed, in an octagon, in an event where the ref stands you on your feet every min or so that you are on the ground and they deem you're punchin' some dude in the face and him squirmin' as "inactive" b) kick some dude on the street that isn't versed in MA c) dunno... you tell me when someone that has taken a full-contact mma class can get kicked.... my personal experience, its when a guy is absolutely outclassed or when a dude is tired as hell from floppin' around on the ground... see a) I think that bruce was on the right track... I think if he had sparred with Helio Gracie, Carle (or however you spell Carley) He woulda worked more on his ground game... Here's the thing. When Brazilian Jiu-Jistsu first took the world it was an eye opener to us Americans. Then the Jiu-Jistu guys got rocked when big, predominantly white people started cross training in wrestling, submission, and striking (read, mui-thai) Now we're at a great point in MA when people realize that there is no answer. Bruce had the right idea with JKD, in that he'd accept anything.. unfortunately, his strategy wasn't really suited to a cage or one on one fight. Too many BJJ players stress the importance of the guard and submissions from a bad "street" position. Unfortunately, bruce's "students" get fucking rocked in any MMA sanctioned fight. None have ever won anything in 1on1, to my knowledge. Read, UFC, King of the Cage (KoC), Abu Dhabi (which, given , is purely submission), Pride (the biggie), I could go on. However, Bruce's philosophy, is right on... Try what is new, and see if it works for you. Unfortunately, he didn't get a chance to get worked over by a Brazilian in the 60's, or I think he woulda made a bunch of Bad assed JKD students, having incorporated what surely would have been a loss by submission into a new platform/principle. Bruce was a bad assed dude who taught the Chinese (on the Islands) what was up, and brought MA to the west, for which I am grateful.... Reminds me of a more successful David Beckham trying to bring soccer to the American's. He's personable, he's on tv, but he wasn't in the top 5, even at the time. You look at the history of his student's versus the MA teachers in the rest of the world, and you'll realize that I'm not wrong... I hope. We got Mark Coleman (wrestler) Rodrigo Noguera (BJJ and Muai Thai) Tito (wrestler turned puncher) Vitor (Boxer, posing as a Jiu Jitsu Artist) I dunno the last JKD fighter that I saw on the real scene, but he got spanked) Some JKD guys won in the early days of UFC tho. The real winners nowadays do follow Bruce's tradition though... They' don't have a set, nameable style BTW, anyone here ever get rocked by a good punch in an MMA event? I did, and it made me toss my cookies and give it up. Like I said, Bruce would kick my fucking ass.... And I could bench press him 40 times. Peace, and no disrespect. Cheese

08-16-2003, 02:27 AM	#42 (permalink)
cheesemoney Loser Location: Paradise	I guess what all this rant is leading up to is that why, when we have far better current martial artists, do so many people look to the past? Is is a fixation, like so many people I know that--honest to god--wish they were samarai or something? I know the past is fun, but some of you Lee supporters havta tell me you've been paying attention to the last 10 - 15 year. Kerr, Igor, Coleman, Frye, Even the Shammy's... Lemme know wassup!!!!! Cheese

08-17-2003, 05:53 PM	#43 (permalink)
Shpoop Curious Location: NJ (but just for college)	i once heard this, and i believe it to be true. 9 times out of 10 a mediocre wrestler will beat an expert at martial arts, because if the fight lasts past the first blow, it will end up on the ground (that is for real fights, not 'matches')

08-28-2003, 02:39 PM	#46 (permalink)
Aaron0000 Crazy Location: CA	I dont know much about Martial Arts but from what Ive learned about Bruce Lee is that he would be anyone just because his style is the Intercepting Fist, meaning he trains to NEVER get hit. How could he lose?

09-13-2003, 12:53 AM	#48 (permalink)
Lunchbox7 Addict	Tom Slaven in his prime probably would of done some real damage. No one else really stands out in my mind.

09-13-2003, 12:54 AM	#49 (permalink)
Lunchbox7 Addict	When two tigers fight one gets hurt and the other dies

09-13-2003, 06:59 AM	#51 (permalink)
AL9045 Addict Location: Virginia	Am I the only onen who doesn't know what the hell is going on? . Btw, I think Bruce Lee could probably beat anyone when he was his greatest, but we'll never know...

09-13-2003, 01:36 PM	#52 (permalink)
Battlefield Crazy	He could not win any fight. But if you look at what he did with what mother nature gave him he is bar none the best.

04-18-2004, 11:21 PM	#55 (permalink)
cheesemoney Loser Location: Paradise	Or you could slip him an advil... or whatever.... that was low. /sorry

04-19-2004, 01:00 PM	#58 (permalink)
twotimesadingo Psycho Location: that place with the thing	I tended to hold the prevailing belief as well. I thought that most traditional martial artsists would be ground to fucking hamburg by the MMAs of today. Bas Ruten.. I dunno. I have (had) a hard time thinking anyone who studied one traditional art exclusively could stand against him. But then I went to see a friend's master perform in a Moo Duk Kwan training session. And I got to see my friend's master's teacher, a guy by the name of Kwan (i dun remember the first name). This Kwan character was maybe 4'9". Seriously. It was funny shit watching him instruct all these other black belts in what they were doing to train for their next tests and whatnot. Then this Kwan guy takes a black belt - a master in his own right - aside, and proceeds to demonstrate what is called an "internal strike." The two square off, Kwan parries a punch, presses the palm of his hand against the black belt's chest, and the guy screams in sheer agony and flies backward ten fucking feet. He's dead unconscious. It's all happened faster than anyone can track. After the guy comes to, his dobak is taken off and his entire upper torse is the ugly purple of a serious bruise. I think Mr. Lee could have done the same thing. You might not be into the whole "mental" thing that is concommittant with traditional martial arts, but I've actually seen what it can do with my own eyes. I think if Bas threw a combo at Bruce, or even Kwan, he'd be in for a hell of a surprise. That's just my input. __________________ I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and all your demons. I'll be the one to protect you from a will to survive and voice of reason. I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and your choices, son. They're one and the same I must isolate you, isolate and save you from yourself." - A Perfect Circle

04-21-2004, 07:39 PM	#59 (permalink)
whoizzy Upright Location: NorCal	When it comes to Bruce Lee in any form of combat, HE WILL NEVER LOSE. Reason being simple, he wasn't a great fighter because he studied Martial Arts, he was a great fighter because he studied everything, I mean EVERYTHING! From western boxing to fencing, he even took ballet to better his footwork, he was INVINCIBLE! Plus, Jeet Kun Do ISN'T EVEN A FIGHTING STYLE, it's a guidelines for self defense, so to speak, everybody should know that by now. Every Jeet Kun Do student fights different, the philosophy is simple, and anyone can do it. And last but not least, we can't forget that Bruce Lee is the same man that even mastered the basics of Gung Fu in a little under 24 hours; 3 inch punch; one of the strongest men pound for pound, period;plus mastered just about every other means of self defense as well, NOT JUST KUNG FU!!!

04-21-2004, 10:57 PM	#61 (permalink)
qtpye4u84 Flavor+noodles Location: oregon	I Like bruce lee. I love Jet lee what about him. __________________ The QTpie

04-22-2004, 10:16 AM	#62 (permalink)
streak_56 who ever said streaking was a bad thing? Location: Calgary	Everyone should also remember (and I forget where I say this) that in some Bruce Lee movies they actually had to slow the camera speed down because he was moving too fast. I'm sure that he had some speed to him which made up for him size. I'm gonna side with Konichiwaneko on this one.