DaveOrion

I cant believe that the Steelers are going to suspend Ben for 6 games, as far as I know & I have followed this, he has not been charged or convicted of anything. From what I can ascertain he received a BJ in the bathroom of a bar and the woman later reported that she was assaulted although the cops dropped the case as far a I know. WTF happened to innocent until proven guilty? I suppose speculation & innuendo is enough to bring somebody down these days. Tiger Woods just played the open to crowds of admiring fans, is it me or what?

NFL News Feed: Roethlisberger suspended for six games - Mark Maske

Roethlisberger suspended for six games

UPDATED (1:33 p.m.)...

The NFL suspended Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger for the first six games of next season for violating the league's personal conduct policy, the league announced Wednesday.

The suspension potentially could be reduced to four games by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell if Roethlisberger meets certain conditions tied to his potential reinstatement, according to the league's announcement.

Goodell also could extend Roethlisberger's suspension if he chooses, the league announced. Roethlisberger was ordered to undergo a medical evaluation.

The announcement came as ESPN reported that the Steelers had begun contacting teams about a possible trade involving Roethlisberger, seeking a top-10 pick in the NFL draft Thursday night in return. At least one team was considering such a deal, according to ESPN's report.

A district attorney in Georgia announced last week that Roethlisberger would not be charged with a crime based on an allegation by a woman that she was sexually assaulted by Roethlisberger last month at a nightclub.

A 20-year-old college student accused Roethlisberger of sexually assaulting her in a bathroom at a Milledgeville, Ga., nightclub. Frederic D. Bright, the district attorney involved in the case, said when he announced his decision that he could not prove Roethlisberger's guilt to jurors beyond a reasonable doubt. Roethlisberger said that evening that the correct decision had been made by the prosecutor.

Roethlisberger, a two-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback for the Steelers, also was accused in a civil lawsuit by a woman in Nevada of sexually assaulting her in a Lake Tahoe hotel room in 2008. Roethlisberger denied that allegation and he was not charged with a crime.

The NFL's personal conduct policy empowers Goodell to impose discipline upon a player as he sees fit for conduct detrimental to the league even if the player is not convicted of a crime.

Goodell said earlier this week that Roethlisberger violated the conduct policy. Roethlisberger met with Goodell for approximately two hours last week in New York, on the day after the prosecutor's announcement in the Georgia case.

Art Rooney II, the president of the Steelers, said at a news conference Thursday that the team was prepared to discipline Roethlisberger but would coordinate disciplinary action with the league. The collective bargaining agreement between the league and the players' union gives a club the ability to suspend a player for as many as four games without pay for conduct detrimental to the team.

There have been multiple reports that the Steelers might consider trading Roethlisberger. Rooney said last week that the team planned to give Roethlisberger another chance to prove himself. He said the Steelers had not discussed a trade of Roethlisberger with any other teams at that point.

According to multiple reports, the St. Louis Rams, who have the top overall selection in the draft Thursday night, informed the Steelers in recent days that they're not interested in trading for Roethlisberger.

The Steelers previously traded wide receiver Santonio Holmes to the New York Jets for a fifth-round draft choice. The former Super Bowl most valuable player was suspended by the NFL for the first four games of next season for violating the league's substance abuse policy.

Roethlisberger's suspension is without pay. Under league policy, the Steelers potentially could be forced to pay money to the NFL office based on the portion of the salary amounts lost by Roethlisberger and Holmes during their suspensions--essentially a fine of the team for having multiple players suspended.

The Steelers obtained Roethlisberger's former backup, Byron Leftwich, in a trade Tuesday with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They also have veteran quarterback Charlie Batch and young quarterback Dennis Dixon, who made a start last season when Roethlisberger was hurt.

A source said earlier this week that Roethlisberger would accept any disciplinary action imposed on him if that discipline was not "too harsh."

Rooney said last week that he "made it clear to Ben that his conduct in this incident did not live up to our standards. We made it very clear to Ben that there will be consequences for his actions. And Ben has indicated to us that he's willing to accept those consequences."

Goodell sent a recent memo to NFL teams reminding them that the league's personal conduct policy requires players and other employees to do more than merely avoid committing a crime.

Further details of the case in Georgia emerged last week from hundreds of pages of documents from the investigation released by authorities. The woman, according to the Associated Press, told police that after Roethlisberger had told her and her friends to consume shots of alcohol, she was led into a hallway by one of Roethlisberger's bodyguards and put on a stool. The bodyguard left and Roethlisberger walked down the hallway and exposed himself, according to the woman's account, the AP reported.

The woman told Roethlisberger no and entered a bathroom but Roethlisberger followed her and closed the door, the woman told investigators.

"I still said no, this is not okay, and he then had sex with me," the woman said in one of her statements to investigators, according to the AP. "He said it was okay. He then left without saying anything."

Roethlisberger did not answer questions from reporters when he made his public statement last week following the prosecutor's announcement in Georgia.

Roethlisberger said that evening at the Steelers' training facility: "I'd like to begin by expressing gratitude for the thorough investigation process in Georgia and the prosecutor's decision not to bring charges. I know without a doubt it was the right conclusion. I don't intend to discuss any details related to the events in Georgia and I'm happy to put this behind me and move forward. I am truly sorry for the disappointment and negative attention I have brought to my family, my teammates, coaches, the Rooneys and the NFL.

"I understand that the opportunities I have been blessed with are a privilege and that much is expected of me as the quarterback of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I absolutely want to be the leader this team deserves, valued in the community and a role model to kids. I have much work to do to earn this trust and I am committed to improving and showing everyone my true values. I am excited to get back to work with my teammates and I'm more determined than ever to have a great season. I intend to make my family, friends and the Steeler nation proud on all fronts. Thank you and God bless."

Roethlisberger had resumed participating in the Steelers' offseason workouts.

________________________________________

Roethlisberger documents give details

MILLEDGEVILLE, Ga. -- Members of the posse accompanying Ben Roethlisberger on a Georgia bar crawl played a pivotal role in uniting the star quarterback with the woman who accused him of rape -- and barring the women's friends from checking on her, according to investigative documents released Thursday.

The 20-year-old college student told police that a "bodyguard" escorted her to a back room in the Capital City nightclub in Milledgeville shortly before an encounter with Mr. Roethlisberger in a dingy bathroom led to the rape allegations.

And a friend of hers, Nicole Biancofiore, claimed that a third woman was "taken away by a bodyguard of Ben's" when she tried to open the locked bathroom door.

None of the men who were bar-hopping with Mr. Roethlisberger on March 4-5 in Milledgeville, near the quarterback's off-season home, admitted to being involved in any such untoward activity.

That group included Steelers tackle Willie Colon, off-duty Coraopolis police Officer Anthony J. Barravecchio and off-duty Pennsylvania State Trooper Edward Joyner of the Washington barracks.

When the case was closed this week without charges being filed, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation's voluminous file became public. Among the hundreds of pages of documents generated during its monthlong investigation were police reports, interviews with at least 54 people and handwritten statements by the accuser.

The Post-Gazette does not name alleged victims of sexual assault.

Reports in the file show that investigators were initially intent on getting a sample of Mr. Roethlisberger's DNA to compare it to a male DNA sample retrieved from the woman through a sexual assault kit. They took swabs of evidence from the nightclub bathroom and obtained a search warrant to collect the quarterback's genetic material.

Officials at the bureau's crime lab, however, told agents that there was too little DNA from the kit to be able to compare it to Mr. Roethlisberger's DNA.

"The sample was so minute that it could not be profiled," George Herrin, deputy director of the bureau's Department of Forensic Science, said.

In the absence of DNA evidence, investigators relied on witness accounts and statements by the alleged victim to try to unearth the truth about what happened in the Capital City nightclub.

In their statements, witnesses describe churlish behavior by the Steelers superstar. Mr. Roethlisberger is said to have exposed his genitals in the nightclub hallway, ordered a woman to be ejected from the club's VIP section and made "crude, sexual remarks" to his accuser. A bartender working the VIP room described the quarterback as "mean."

At the same time, one person in Mr. Roethlisberger's entourage, Mr. Colon, told police that the accuser repeatedly tried to get the quarterback's attention at a bar earlier in the evening, pinched Mr. Roethlisberger and, along with others in her party, wore a sexually suggestive nametag.

Mr. Colon said the woman asked him if he knew what her "DTF" nametag meant. She said it was a crude acronym for wanting to have sex.

Authorities have already said the woman was drunk -- so much so that an initial police report noted: "It is unclear to what happened after this point due to the complainant's recollection being foggy from her intoxication level."

The officer who wrote that report, Milledgeville police Sgt. Jerry Blash, is under investigation for comments allegedly made to one of Mr. Roethlisberger's friends at Capital City.

"Hey, I need to talk to you guys," Sgt. Blash reportedly told Officer Barravecchio, the off-duty Coraopolis officer.

"We have a problem. This drunken bitch, drunk off her ass, is accusing Ben of rape," Officer Barravecchio said Sgt. Blash told him. "This pisses me off. Women can do this. It's[bull] but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report. This is BS. She's making [stuff] up."

Ms. Biancofiore said at first it seemed as if Sgt. Blash was not going to file a report. She told investigators that Sgt. Blash said he would, but also noted that Mr. Roethlisberger has wealth, has access to lawyers and that they would be wasting their time.

Milledgeville police Chief Woodrow W. Blue Jr. said Sgt. Blash's alleged comments did not influence the investigation and had no bearing on its outcome. He said that the sergeant's conduct is under investigation. Sgt. Blash resigned Wednesday.

Fredric D. Bright, the local district attorney, announced Monday that he would not file rape charges against Mr. Roethlisberger because of an inability to prove that a crime had occurred early March 5. Despite his conclusion, Mr. Bright nevertheless publicly upbraided the quarterback for his conduct.

In the reports released Thursday, witnesses indicated that Mr. Roethlisberger and his cohort were so image-conscious that they worried about pictures taken of the superstar posing with drinks or alongside women with alcoholic beverages.

At the same time, the quarterback thought nothing of holding court in the back room of a nightclub where a bartender lined up tequila shots for Mr. Roethlisberger, his male friends and a number of attractive young women, some of them underage and with fake IDs.

One of those friends, Trooper Joyner, who was off-duty, permitted only women to enter the VIP section of the Capital City nightclub.

Mr. Colon told investigators that was because of past encounters with jealous boyfriends and said his teammate's bodyguards "found it simpler to keep them out."

Mr. Colon was among the men who gathered to celebrate Mr. Roethlisberger's 28th birthday in Georgia.

On March 4, the group went jet skiing on Lake Oconee. Tired from drinking heavily the night before, according to Mr. Colon's account, the group did not imbibe.

They dined that evening at a sushi restaurant and then headed into Milledgeville, an antebellum city of roughly 19,000 people and home to Georgia College & State University. The off-duty officers chauffeured the group in two vehicles.

Although the night out began with no plan, Mr. Colon said a waitress suggested several hot spots popular with the college crowd, including the Velvet Elvis and Capital City. The men popped into a total of six bars, with Capital City being the final stop. They attracted attention along the way.

Around 11 p.m, as the group entered Velvet Elvis, a group of women that included the accuser were at the end of the bar. Mr. Colon said the women recognized the quarterback and went "nutty."

"The girls approached Roethlisberger and asked to take photographs with him, and Roethlisberger accommodated their requests." The women said they were wearing their provocative nametags, which they had received at a birthday party, because "they thought it was funny."

In the second of her two written statements, the accuser said she and her friends "left him alone."

Mr. Roethlisberger's group crossed the street to another bar, The Brick. Mr. Colon said the women followed them, although the accuser wrote that "We went to The Brick, where they happened to be. We continued to have casual conversation. He even made crude, sexual remarks."

While at The Brick, Mr. Colon said, the woman "repeatedly attempted to get Roethlisberger's attention, which included pinching him." She wrote that he called her "a tease."

Again, the crowd grew around Mr. Roethlisberger and he "was getting annoyed that people continued to take photographs of him with alcoholic beverages in his hand."

The groups ran into each other again at Capital City. Mr. Roethlisberger and his group were given a back room, a private bartender and a bouncer. Besides Mr. Roethlisberger's friends, there were "a lot of blonde girls," Officer Barravecchio recalled.

Drinking commenced, and the quarterback ordered two rounds of tequila shots. The bar tab totaled $160, which Trooper Joyner paid in cash.

In the first of her two written statements, the accuser told police that when she found herself in the room with Mr. Roethlisberger, "I said, 'I don't know if this is a good idea,' and he said, 'It's OK.' He had sex with me and meanwhile his bodyguards told my friends they couldn't pass them to get to me."

The woman's handwriting is clearly sloppier than in her subsequent statement, given later in the day. In the first statement, she refers to the quarterback as "Ben Rotheseburgehergh."

In the second statement, she writes that Mr. Roethlisberger invited her party to the VIP area.

"He said there were shots for us, numerous shots were on the bar, and he told us to take them.

"His bodyguard came and took my arm and said, 'Come with me.' He escorted me into a side door/hallway and sat me on a stool."

The bodyguard left, she told police, and Mr. Roethlisberger appeared with his genitalia out of his pants.

"I told him, 'It wasn't OK, no, we don't need to do this,' and I proceeded to get up and try to leave. I went to the first door I saw, which happened to be a bathroom. He followed me into the bathroom and shut the door behind him.

"I still said, 'No, this is not OK.' And he then had sex with me. He said it was OK. He then left without saying anything. I went out of the hallway/door to the side where I saw my friends. We left Capital and went to the first police car we saw."

Ms. Biancofiore, the accuser's friend, said the woman "was dragged by a bodyguard to the back room in Capital. She was extremely intoxicated and not aware of what was happening."

A third friend, Ann Marie Lubatti, told police, that she "approached the other security guard and told him that she [the accuser] was in no shape to be back there with Ben Roethlisberger. He couldn't look me in the eye, and told me he didn't know what was going on."

The GBI later identified that bodyguard as Trooper Joyner, and the GBI also determined that the man who led Roethlisberger's accuser down the hallway was Officer Barravecchio.

Ms. Lubatti and Ms. Biancofiore told authorities that their friend and Mr. Roethlisberger were in the bathroom for about 10 minutes. He emerged first. When she came out, she had tears in her eyes.

They asked what happened.

"We need to go," she said. "We need to go."

Trooper Joyner said he never stopped anyone from going in the hallway area of the bar and never saw anyone else in the group do so.

Officer Barravecchio said on Mr. Roethlisberger's instruction he showed a woman where the bathroom was but did not remain there. Instead, he went to the main bar to get Red Bulls for himself and Trooper Joyner.

Soon after, Sgt. Blash showed up at the club and said, "The way she says it happened, there is no way," Trooper Joyner said. He added that Sgt. Blash said the accuser had already changed her story several times.

Mr. Bright, the district attorney, said during his news conference that when the accuser first approached a police officer outside the nightclub immediately after the incident, "The police officer asked 'Did he rape you?' And her response was 'No.' Then he asked, 'Did you have sex?' And she said, 'Well, I'm not sure.' "

On the way back to his home in Reynolds Plantation, the quarterback called his lawyer.

In the other vehicle, Mr. Colon and his group discussed what happened and how "we can't get ourselves in these situations."

Upon arrival, Mr. Colon said Mr. Roethlisberger told him that the accusation was "BS" and that he did not do anything.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Jetée

Alright, that's all well and good.

He deserved what the league gave him, and unlike you, I can believe it, because it just happened.
Are you just in disbelief he was suspended at all, or were you not following the entire hoopla that ESPN was making of this story for the past several months now?

That Steelers' quarterback is a knucklehead, he should not have even allowed himself to be put in that situation, let alone have it come back to haunt him a second (third?) time. For the past several offseasons, he's been an increasing headache to his organization, and him making headlines for his foolish and reckless acts while not in-season reflects very poorly on how the NFL wants to operate, and be seen (inter-)nationally.
He also violated the NFL personal conduct policy, so what were you expecting? Just because he didn't get charged on criminal or civil grounds, doesn't mean he won't be punsihed and face a stipend by his employers (ie, the Pittburgh Football Org., and the whole of the NFL).

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

The_Jazz

Dave, it's the NFL suspending him, not the Steelers. Two different things.

Remember that this is Roethlisberger's second time being accused of sexual assault. It could be that there's a pattern that's starting to emerge. Either he's an easy target because he's doing stupid shit or he's actually a Really Bad Guy.

Whichever one it is, it really doesn't matter. The NFL is a business and as such can conduct itself accordingly. If a guy doesn't break the law but does something objectionable, then they're entitled to suspend him. There's no law that says that they can't take action for things that happen off the field, and lots of prescendent for other businesses doing exactly the same thing, only in lower profile. If a teacher is turning tricks at night, a school district is not only empowered to fire that individual, but the district is potentially liable if they don't.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

DaveOrion

The first time was total BS and everyone knows it. That women came forward a year later, thats right A YEAR, never went to hospital and was basically a gold digger who thought she could make a quick buck off Ben. Wouldnt be the first time something like this has been seen.

As far as I know bad judgment isnt a crime or anything even close and I personally think its ridiculous and atrocious that nobody even tried to back the guy up. Ben gave Pittsburgh 2 Superbowl trophies and not one of his teammates or staff ever had anything positive to say. I find that appalling at the very least.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

The_Jazz

Team sport, Dave. Ben didn't win those championships himself. I'm pretty sure that the Pittsburgh defense would be more than a little pissed to hear that implied. Not to mention their running backs.

The NFL can and does suspend people for being knuckleheads. If you reread the articles you posted, I think you'll agree that at the very least Ben was guilty of that.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

DaveOrion

I do realize that Pittsburgh has one of the strictest personal conduct polices but even so, this really pisses me off especially since they just traded Holmes! Please keep in mind that I've been a Steeler fan forever and a day, now all this.
I will get over it however, God only knows who'll be on the team this year, free agency sucks.

Sorry if this seems discombotulated, I have strep throat, running a fever, and none of this may make sense.

The Sports Network - Fantasy Sports

Effects of the Holmes trade

By Steve Schwarz, Fantasy Sports Editor

Philadelphia, PA (Sports Network) - Important roster changes continue around the league, even before the NFL holds its annual Draft Day on April 22nd. It was announced late Sunday night that Pittsburgh Steelers' wide receiver Santonio Holmes has been traded to the New York Jets for a fifth-round pick.

This trade will cause many adjustments for fantasy owners.

In Pittsburgh, Holmes had become the team's top deep threat and was thriving in the role. In 2009, he had caught 79 passes for 1,248 and five touchdowns. With Hines Ward, getting up there in age, Holmes had a great fantasy future with the Steelers and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

Unfortunately, Holmes had issues off the field which caused Pittsburgh to consider moving their star receiver.

In March, a woman filed a civil lawsuit against Holmes for assault and battery, claiming that he cut her face with a glass after getting into a dispute over a bar couch in an Orlando night club. Holmes is also facing a possible four-game suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy. And finally, his contract was going to be up at the end of 2010 and the team would likely have been required to make a considerable investment in the talented receiver.

Holmes will now play in New York and be teamed up with another talented, but troubled receiver, Braylon Edwards. If they can keep their off-the-field antics to a minimum, the two along with tight end Dustin Keller could become a solid receiving corps for second-year quarterback Mark Sanchez.

Meanwhile, in Pittsburgh, the trade leaves the Steelers very short at receiver.

Their No.1 receiver will again be 34-year-old Hines Ward. Ward has great hands and heart, but is getting up their in age. He's not a deep threat and his six touchdown catches in 2009 was his fewest since 2006. Plus he no longer has the opposing teams worried about Holmes. Instead, his most likely opposite number will be second-year receiver Mike Wallace. Wallace played well last season, as a third receiver, hauling in 39 balls for 756 yards and six scores. His 19.4 ypc was one of the highest in the league. Whether he can take over for Holmes, or the Steelers will draft Holmes' replacement is a question every fantasy owner is waiting to get answered because it will certainly have a huge impact on "Big Ben's" value.

Roethlisberger, who has off-the-field issues of his own, was a Top-10 fantasy quarterback in 2009 throwing for 4,328 yards and 26 touchdowns against just 12 interceptions. Whether he can repeat those numbers, given his current receiving corps is questionable.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Jetée

Actually, bad judgment can be seen as 'ignorance and defiance to the law and its upholders', so yeah, that doesn't excuse anyone. I should know, as I was once arrested in self-defense, but as I couldn't prove it, the law states that if you can avoid and leave the situation of your own volition with no impediment to your exit, then I was technically in the wrong for not choosing that path.

Regardless of that little example, again, every superstar athlete should know better than to party too hard, because in all likelihood, word will get out of your exploits (or supposed exploits). The first instance of this charge against Roethlisberger, while it was neither proven that she was victimized, nor that was a 'money-grubbing ho', should have at least instilled in Ben a sense of caution. Turns out it didn't, and he continues to want to be surrounded by 20-year-old girls, and imbibe alongside the underaged drinkers, and then perhaps go further.

I can't say what did or didn't happen, as I don't work for ESPN and speculation is not my forte. What I can say is that Ben deserved the suspension he received, and while there may be an outcry of those who don't understand why he is being punished, doesn't understand the politics and motives for the NFL senior management to promote this league as 'wholesome', and would continue this 'Wild West' way of running its personnel and endorsers for as long as they see fit. Truth is, Goodell is running the show as Bill Hickok, and I really think he's doing an upstanding job at it, considering all the duties he must maintain (even if at this time it seems all he does is hand out suspensions for good reason).

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

DaveOrion

Oh really? Remember Dante Stallworth? He drove drunk, killed someone and now he's gonna play again? He shouldve gotten 15 years. What about Michael Vick? Never should've played the game again but now he's quartering for the eagles. And they're gonna roast Ben over the coals for nuttin, Please. You really think all thats fair? Ha!

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

The_Jazz

Dante Stallworth got suspended for a year. Michael Vick got suspended for more than a year AFTER he got out of jail.

Dave, he's not being punished for "nothing". You're obviously not reading the same articles Jetee and I are, but you're the one posting them (albeit from your sickbed). There's lots of corroboration that at the very least Ben is guilty of some supremely stupid decisions. Buying underaged girls shots and partying with them in a curtained off area of a small-town college bar, especially with his history, is just plain old stupid for any celebrity.

Pac Man Jones wasn't convicted of anything either. How's he doing this days?

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

DaveOrion

I sincerely hope you realize how silly that last statement sounds, "Underage girls in a bar". Why were underage girls even permitted in a bar? And even if they were, who's to know they're underage if they have been permitted in a bar? Yea, I guess things like that happen but is that Ben's fault? Gimme a break dude.

His history shouldnt even be a factor anyway, as I've already stated. Has he been charged or convicted of anything? No, except by the omnipresent media, which doesnt mean one single thing except, he's a guy, he likes to get an occasional BJ and if he gets one by some drunk chick in a bar so what? If it was you or me nobody would give a tinkers damn about it.

Pac Man deserved what he got, I think he was playing in Canada but may be returning to the NFL, not sure though. He & Ben do have a few similarities but all in all are 2 different people.

Gotta go pass out & die, feel free to continue without me.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

The_Jazz

Dave, the difference is that no one gives a shit about you outside of your group of friends and family. At the very least, I hope that you realize that Ben was doing some bad shit that night. I agree that it's not his job to check ID's at the bar but it's still pretty fucking stupid for a guy that's already been accused once of sexual assault to put himself in the position of getting accused again, regardless of the merits of the accusations. If he's going to party with young women (and I've got nothing against him doing exactly that), then he should make sure that he's never alone with one of them unless it's overly obvious that it was all her idea. As of now, I don't think anyone can definitively say that about the Georgia case one way or the other.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

DaveOrion

No need to get nasty or make this personal. I only stated my opinion and as far as I know that is acceptable and compliant with TFP rules. Later

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

FuglyStick

Just because no laws were broken (and that's a bit muddled) doesn't mean the NFL can't impose a code of conduct for their players. As much as professional athletes like to claim they aren't role models--they are. Their behavior, both on and off the field, is a reflection of the organization. And they are compensated quite handsomely for maintaining discretion. The NFL is doing Ben a favor by fining him for his stupidity.

It's not against the law to be a member of a white supremacist group either. Should the NFL turn a blind eye if a player was to show up at a cross burning?

__________________
AZIZ! LIGHT!

Wes Mantooth

Personally I think what a person does with their own time SHOULD be their own business...unfortunately for Ben the world just doesn't work that way.

"The NFL suspended Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger for the first six games of next season for violating the league's personal conduct policy"

The above quote really says it all. Ben gets paid a LOT of money to represent not only the Steelers but the NFL as well and if he's going to keep putting himself in a position to bring negative press to either organization they have a right to respond. If he wants to live out his frat boy nightclub lifestyle then he either needs to be more careful about it or find a job where nobody is going to care, otherwise he's going to have to deal with the consequences when something goes wrong.

__________________

The_Jazz

I'm not trying to be nasty. The same is true about everyone here, unless there's a celebrity hiding in our midst. I can say with reasonable certainty that not one single member of this board will ever be mentioned in "People Magazine". Unless it's as a stalker.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Pearl Trade

I think he deserves it. I mean, he's a dumb ass and always has been. He violated the rules of his employer. This is the THIRD stupid thing he's done. The first, wrecking his bike, The second, #1 girl incident (I gave him a free pass). The third, #2 girl incident. He may not be guilty of a crime, but he's definitely guilty of being foolish. I just wish they gave him his sentence sooner, like Goodell has done with every one else.

Big Ben has a history of stupidity, Roger Goodell has a history of coming down on stupid people. That's all it is.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Glory's Sun

wait..

so comparing sexual assault and dog fighting are the same?

oh..I get it, Vick went to prison and should never have been allowed back into the league. Hmm.. I guess that kinda means there's no such thing as redemption and that once you commit a crime, there's no such thing as going back to normal after doing the time.

Ben deserves what he gets. He's a super bowl winning quarterback. There are responsibilities that come with that kind of success.. putting yourself into stupid situations is ignoring the responsibilities.

We don't know what really happened with girl #2. The girl being blacked out didn't help and the DNA samples being what they were didn't help either side. The fact of the matter is that he's now been accused of sexual assault twice. Think of all the thousands of other athletes that never get charged even once. Big Ben puts himself into stupid situations and now he has to pay. He's lucky he's only getting what he's getting.

As far as Tiger goes, he did play to admiring fans, but it wasn't nearly what it used to be and the PGA is not the NFL. In the PGA, you damage yourself, not your team. Tiger was stupid, and if you want to look at it, he's lost more than Ben has, monetarily as well as quite possibly personally in regards to his family.

FuglyStick

Okay, you got me--I am posting right now from a parked car across the street from Rose McGowan's house.

Oops, gotta run, she's coming out to check the mailbox in a super short pair of denim shorts and a tube top...I wrote a poem on this McDonald's bag, I hope she likes it. Wish me luck!

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AZIZ! LIGHT!

The_Jazz

Wow, I need to buy some lottery tickets.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

FuglyStick

You're right. It wasn't Rose McGowan. *sigh* I guess I should have known better because a) I haven't left Southern Illinois, and b) the woman in question weighed around 280. And she was carrying pepper spray.

I'm gonna go flush my eyes out now.

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AZIZ! LIGHT!

DaveOrion

I'm saying that some things are worthy of a lifetime ban, torturing & killing helpless animals may be one, drunken vehicular manslaughter might be another.

I do realize that many people dont care as long as whoever can win football games. I suppose some things you just gotta accept, like the Patriots were cheaters, Vick has sado-masochistic tendencies, & Fugly has a face full of pepper spray. Thus is life.

Maybe Vick will show up and put me outta my misery, eh not a chance really, he's probably stalking Rose McGowen as we speak.

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Glory's Sun

Have you gone online and read the statements by the accuser and the witnesses? It's not good. Let's face it, the ONLY reason Big Ben isn't charged is because they couldn't get a good DNA sample. I'm not saying he's guilty, but if he did do what they say he did, a lifetime ban is in order.

There's something there that is making the Steelers want to trade him, they aren't satisfied with the 6 game suspension, they want him gone.

DaveOrion

This is a first, just watched sports center and no one has ever been suspended unless they were at least charged with a crime. They just want to make an example of him but I think it sets a dangerous precedent. Where do you draw the line? Is there a line or are they just making it up as they go along?

Fuck it, its draft day.

Your Ben Roethlisberger trade news update - Shutdown Corner - NFL Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Your Ben Roethlisberger trade news update

By MJD

Oh, it's a wonderful day for trade rumors. It's the day of the draft, which means there'll be more player movement today than on any other day of the year. On the other hand, it's also the day of the year when NFL teams are most likely to disseminate blatant lies and disinformation.

Adam Schefter named seven teams yesterday who the Steelers had called in regards to trading Roethlisberger: the St. Louis Rams, San Francisco 49ers, Oakland Raiders, Buffalo Bills, Jacksonville Jaguars, Seattle Seahawks and -- wait for it -- the Cleveland Browns.

Jason La Canfora's information was a little bit different. He said the Raiders are very much in play and they're still talking to the Steelers, but that the Rams had already turned down Pittsburgh. The Steelers would have liked to grab the first overall pick and taken Sam Bradford.

With regard to the Raiders, La Canfora says the Steelers "are open to packaging Roethlisberger and the No. 18 pick to move up in the draft."

Trading a franchise quarterback, just to move up ten spots? Geez. And I thought they gave away Santonio Holmes.

He also notes that the Bills aren't interested.

As for Roethlisberger, we finally got word from his camp this morning, when his lawyer appeared on Mike and Mike in the Morning. In addition to noting "poor judgment" for his client and that he's disappointed in the suspension, he said that Roethlisberger did not want to be traded.

Which brings me to this point: Could all of this be a ruse by the Steelers? Are they leaking information about potentially trading Roethlisberger, in order to scare him straight, or to see how much he actually values being a Steeler?

Because if the Steelers are going to trade someone, why would they be so cavalier about letting the information get out there? Rumors this specific and this freely leaked to the press don't often come from the Steelers. It's a bit unusual.

One more note: The NFL Network's Jim Mora Jr. opined that there's "no way Ben gets moved today," because the whole thing "came down to [sic] late for teams to have time to think it out rationally."

He may have a good point, but I'd ask two questions: 1) Were the Steelers perhaps working on a trade for longer than anyone knew about?, and 2) If the Raiders are involved, then "rational thinking" absolutely has no place here.

Obviously, we'll be following this one throughout the day. Stick with us. It's draft day, and it feels like it could be a good one.

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Jetée

What are you talking about, I wonder? Players have been suspended for a myriad of reasons, and chiefly, one, not all of them have been charged with a crime to drive the impetus to suspend them.

There are rules in the NFL, just as there are rules in society, and in most profit-minded organaizations (I'm suspecting, even, yes, at Google). So to justify a suspension of player, they first need to be charged and guilty of a crime? I'm not sure that was the case for the three most recent examples of wide receivers who were suspended from games to begin the season, those like: Steve Smith of Carolina, B. Marshall when with Denver, and this year, S. Holmes with New York. Neither of them were charged with a crime, yet they were all suspended.

I suspect, and as much as I hate to even state it aloud because it's obviosuly been made clear from the onset of this discussion, that you, Dave, are a homer, a true fan, willing to ignore the reading between the lines of the very news you are giving us to read. Also, what's with the talk of Holmes as well, and citing a fantasy article as the wide-reaching implications of the trade?

Sure, I'm sure a fair majority of us here partaking in this talk about play fantasy, but that has not much to do about what the NFL and the Steelers' investors/owners now see Ben Roethlisberger as: tarnished, irresponsible, liability. He may be a winner on the field, and able to escape tackles and make something incredible happen every once in a while, but he only does that but an hour a week for a few months out of the year. It's not good to put your faith and your millions of dollars of investment in a guy if you can't even trust he man once he's out of your sights, and the trouble he seems to get himself involved with doesn't stop with just him, but when the news breaks out, do you know the words that come out of every reporter's mouth first? It is unequivocally the "organaization (NFL) and team (Steelers') position (quarterback)", each and every time when an athlete is rumoured to be up a creek and in heat.

The facts are right there for you to face them: Ben Roethlisberger brought this mess on himself, and not for the first time, and if Guccilvr is right, then his employers are just about sick of it.

If today really is the draft, and the Rooney family is indeed listening to offers about trading him, I'd say the percentage of it actually happening are a high 8% chance, and it will be for a top-10 pick, maybe with a side bonus.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Glory's Sun

I'd go with Seattle or Oakland.

Wanting to trade ben doesn't mean that the steelers don't still appreciate what he's done for the team, but that he's become such a liability to the name of the franchise that he has to go.. if they are indeed wanting to trade him.

DaveOrion

Uh, I think weed is illegal dude.

Holmes, 26, was cited for marijuana possession in 2008, resulting in a one-game paid suspension by the Steelers. That was strike one, according to the league policy. To land the suspension, he either tested positive or missed a drug test.

Marshall, even worse

Marshall's been charged with disorderly conduct, simple battery and false imprisonment during relationships with two women, served a year of probation after a DUI incident, went through anger management counseling to get some charges against him dropped, and has been suspended in the past by the NFL and the Broncos. And now he can make the streets of Miami his new playground with $24 million in his bank account. Does this seem like a very bad idea to anyone else?

Havent checked the other, maybe someone else should check their facts.

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Glory's Sun

as a phins fan, I'm a bit worried about Marshall, but I have a feeling Big Tuna will keep him straight.

DaveOrion

Oh I think they want to trade him, just depends on what trade they can work out. Ben doesnt want to go but he may have no choice.

They just traded Willie Parker to the skins for some insignificant comment he made. The brass at the Steelers is just to tuff on the players, after all nobody is perfect (well, maybe some people are) and we all make mistakes. JMO

---------- Post added at 02:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 PM ----------

He's had problems but may come around.

Hey, these guys arent choir boys, they're big tuff men, who work hard and play hard. I'm not condoning illegal activity but what do some people expect when ya pay young, strong, healthy men millions of dollars?

Shit happens

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Jetée

Just because some current NFL personnel have been arrested before, doesn't mean they were charged with a crime thereafter, nor does it factor into why or why not they should face a suspension afterwards.

None of those factors played into why they were suspended in the first place at the time I stated: in the offseason and conditioning programs, Steve Smith punched a teammate and got suspended two games at the beginning of the 2008 season; Brandon Marshall also got into a fight, faced DUIs, and was insubordinate to his coaching staff, so he, too, received a two-game suspension to begin the 2008 season; now, with what Holmes allegedly committed in a nightclub, and the impetus for his trade out of Pittburgh, that earned him a four game suspension. Sure, a few of the facors that played into these three particular examples involved conduct that can be termed and brought to a court of law as 'illegal actions', but the predominant and overriding decision to dole out those punishmnets is simple: violation of the NFL Personal Conduct Policy, a breach of the contract that every NFL player is subject to adhere to year-round, so long a they are tenured by the league. Don't want to be punished? Then, don't do anything bone-headed or egregious, and you'll be left to garner your millions in America's most popular sporting venue.


Honestly, I think you are trying to hard to defend Ben when he deserves no support or sympathy for what he brought upon himself. Why does he deserve your zealous justification? He did something wrong, he embarassed both himself and the organization he represents, and he should face the punishment he has been issued by the league quietly and without question (or else show everybody up, quit the sport, and try out for the USFL as their new star attraction).

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

DaveOrion

Sorry Dude but this is unprecedented, Sports Center is usually very accurate and in this case they most certainly were.

Roethlisberger suspended in unprecedented NFL case | ajc.com

"It just so happens that this is an unprecedented case to the extent that Ben was neither charged or arrested or found to be involved in criminal activity," said noted attorney David Cornwell, who represented Roethlisberger. "That's generally been the reach of the conduct policy. But in our discussions, [Goodell] made it clear that he believes this is within the scope of conduct policy and that it was appropriate for him to take a look at it and respond."

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Glory's Sun

the conduct policy was changed a couple of years ago and the commissioner has a much wider scope to punish with than a team does.

Of course it's unprecedented but it sends a clear message to these players that if they want to play and make their money, they have to play by the leagues rules. Goodell clearly said that his handing down of the suspension was not because he didn't think that Ben should have been charged or that he was charged or convicted, but that his actions have caused serious harm to the league, the owners and the team. He also went on to say that he hopes Ben uses this suspension as a spring board to get his life straight and his career back on track.

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

and in case you haven't read the statements, here they are

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pdf/2...case_files.pdf

Wes Mantooth

""The personal-conduct policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that ‘undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.’ By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard,” Goodell wrote in a letter sent to the quarterback"

I don't think the NFL needs anymore then the above quote to justify suspending Ben. Its their organization, he works for them (at least through his employment with the Steelers) and they feel his actions could be damaging to the leagues reputation and integrity. It might be unprecedented but the NFL is within their rights to hand it down such a punishment and if Ben wants to keep making the big bucks playing in the NFL he's going to have to serve it.

Besides the NFL does unprecedented things all the time, the fines they handed down to New England after spygate was pretty unprecedented regardless of how many teams had done the exact same thing over the years. They changed the policy or at least made it known they were going to enforce it, the Patriots violated it anyway and paid the price. That's just life in the NFL...if teams and players don't like I'm sure the CFL would be happy to take them on.

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DaveOrion

Yep,that is correct. The steelers said even if the commissioner didnt suspend him they would anyway.

Just heard on Sports Center that Ben is "unlikely to be traded" and will probably get a 4 game suspension.

Think I'll go get drunk and get a BJ, Later people, Peace Out.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Glory's Sun

it will only go down to 4 games if he passes a mental health exam and does what he needs to do much like Vick did.

DaveOrion

Time will tell.

The discussion went fairly well here, at other sites he was called a "serial rapist", "sex fiend", and various other derogatory names with no basis in fact.

When I grow up I wanna be a sex fiend.

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

Glory's Sun

Well, I have my personal opinions about what really happened that night, but I have about 1% of the information so I can't actually make a real decision about what went down.

DaveOrion

Only 2 people know exactly what happened and they were both drunk. The actual 100% truth may never be known, not even by them.

On the lighter side, or not, I found this funny. Check the comments.

Roethlisberger will make a statement on Monday | ProFootballTalk.com

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

DaveOrion

Have you heard the lyrics to this?

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

cameroncrazy822

conduct unbecoming... the guy has a problem... won't be 6 more likely 4 for "good behavior".

DaveOrion

but but, did you hear the song? Ben is super famous now, since M&M is singing bout him.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...