Clemens on Trial - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pan6467 · 02-13-2008, 08:56 AM

Wow, it's coming down to who you believe.

I'm watching on Yahoo live and they are talking now about the abcess in Clemens' ass and which is it B12 or steroids.

The congress man Lynch has some damning evidence. But watching this there is a congressman taking Clemens' side. One had to practically demand the MRI reports (Lynch) the other on Clemens' side is talking about recieving a report today from Clemens' lawyers.

Now the question is why did Clemens' report take so long, yet his lawyers are quick to have evidence claiming innocence.

It is a very weird hearing. Either way, I have come to the conclusion Clemens is guilty as Hell.

Glory's Sun · 02-13-2008, 09:10 AM

He's guilty. Might as well go ahead and schedule the perjury trial..

that being said, I'm sick of all this shit. This should be about baseball as a whole not just Barry and Clemens.

Willravel · 02-13-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

This should be about baseball as a whole not just Barry and Clemens.

AMEN.

pan6467 · 02-13-2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

He's guilty. Might as well go ahead and schedule the perjury trial..

that being said, I'm sick of all this shit. This should be about baseball as a whole not just Barry and Clemens.

I agree, but it's 1919 all over again and I firmly believe that we need to get to the bottom of this and then we can move on hopefully in good faith again. But I want to know the cheaters and have them exposed so that future all stars realize the consequences to their behaviors and what happens when you cheat.

This is extremely important for the future of the game IMHO.

BTW the chick sitting almost directly and slightly to the left behind Congresswoman Maloney is HOT..... wowsers to steal a Bobby phrase.... but I'd still take my Lady Sage.

It's also kind of interesting to see all the congress empty chairs now .... it's like they ask their questions and leave... if you haven't reached a decision yet why would you leave... and if you (congress) have reached a decision, why even have these, and how much is this all costing the taxpayers???????

Xazy · 02-13-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

He's guilty. Might as well go ahead and schedule the perjury trial..

that being said, I'm sick of all this shit. This should be about baseball as a whole not just Barry and Clemens.

Yep, which is part of why I no longer follow baseball.

Glory's Sun · 02-13-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

I agree, but it's 1919 all over again and I firmly believe that we need to get to the bottom of this and then we can move on hopefully in good faith again. But I want to know the cheaters and have them exposed so that future all stars realize the consequences to their behaviors and what happens when you cheat.

This is extremely important for the future of the game IMHO.

BTW the chick sitting almost directly and slightly to the left behind Congresswoman Maloney is HOT..... wowsers to steal a Bobby phrase.... but I'd still take my Lady Sage.

It's also kind of interesting to see all the congress empty chairs now .... it's like they ask their questions and leave... if you haven't reached a decision yet why would you leave... and if you (congress) have reached a decision, why even have these, and how much is this all costing the taxpayers???????

why do they leave? because they've already made up their minds before they asked any questions...

pan6467 · 02-13-2008, 09:36 AM

*sob sob* "I grew up with no daddy after age 9, 1 of 6 children 2 younger brothers and 3 sisters... my sister in law was killed innocently by drugs..... I had to pitch to go to college..... I' will sign autographs for kids and spend time at playgrounds helping the kids less fortunate than me... I WOULD NEVER SIT OUT AND WAIT FOR A MULTIMILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT WITH ALL KINDS OF PERKS."

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

why do they leave? because they've already made up their minds before they asked any questions...

Then why even have this? And what is the cost to taxpayers? Granted, as I said above IMHO this is extremely important to get to the bottom of but if you already made up your mind why even be there or hold this?

Glory's Sun · 02-13-2008, 09:42 AM

to make it look like they actually care. IMO, congress shouldn't even be involved. :shrug: Baseball should have the balls to do what it needs to do without the "help" of congress.. however, that's obviously not the case.

pan6467 · 02-13-2008, 09:43 AM

You call a nanny after 7 years to see what she'll say..... "I haven't talked to her in years, but I wanted to help you..... I told her to answer honestly.... (but please don't check her bank account)"

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

to make it look like they actually care. IMO, congress shouldn't even be involved. :shrug: Baseball should have the balls to do what it needs to do without the "help" of congress.. however, that's obviously not the case.

No it's not the case the lunatics are not going to police the asylum when the asylum is making so much MONEY.

Redlemon · 02-13-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

It's also kind of interesting to see all the congress empty chairs now .... it's like they ask their questions and leave... if you haven't reached a decision yet why would you leave... and if you (congress) have reached a decision, why even have these, and how much is this all costing the taxpayers???????

Visit Congress some time. It ALWAYS looks like that. You'll have somebody up reading a speech to an empty room.

pan6467 · 02-13-2008, 10:16 AM

The sad part is as I listen to the radio (1100 WTAM) during the break the 9-12 guy (BOB FRANKS) is making it VERY partisan. WTF????????

"Certain liberal members of congress are trying to fry Clemens, while others are being level headed and calling McNamee out."

Just one quote as he plays commercials and apologizes for no Rush.

pan6467 · 02-14-2008, 12:54 AM

Say it ain't so Joe, say it ain't so!!!!!!

Quote:

Clemens shelled by Congress
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
February 13, 2008

Dan Wetzel
Yahoo! Sports
WASHINGTON – Question by question, disputed answer by disputed answer, Roger Clemens' house of lies came tumbling down upon him Wednesday.

Whatever Clemens thought he'd get out of turning a sporting controversy into a federal case courtesy of this congressional hearing never materialized. He scored few points while getting caught up in his own words, nonsensical logic and twisted timelines, even before his friend and former teammate Andy Pettitte laid him out.

Presumably there are people in America who still believe Clemens is the only honest man in this entire sordid steroid scandal, that the entire world (friends included) decided one day to gang up and frame him, that he is just a trusting victim here, but other than those on his considerable payroll, they were hard to find anywhere near room 2154 of the Rayburn House Office Building on this cold, rainy day.

Clemens was doomed from the start, crushed by sworn affidavits and repeated under-oath testimony from Pettitte and his wife Laura – almost unimpeachable witnesses – who not only backed up the words of former trainer Brian McNamee, but blew Clemens' own stories out of the water.

Congressmen Henry Waxman of California and Elijah Cummings of Maryland double-teamed Clemens early, and no amount of ensuing sympathetic lawmakers, McNamee creepiness or Clemens campaign speeches could bail him out.

"I found McNamee very credible," Waxman said after the hearing. "I thought what he said had a lot of credibility."

Clemens is almost assuredly going to face federal perjury charges after he continued to stick to a story that stood in stark contrast with repeated under-oath testimony of everyone else. Once the Pettittes – and former teammate Chuck Knoblauch – backed McNamee's word over Clemens', this was no longer about he said, he said.

This was he said, everyone said.

"You understand you're under oath," Cummings kept asking Clemens, almost dumbfounded that the pitcher could be so brazen under oath.

What else could Cummings do? It was stunning to watch Clemens hang himself, trying to worm his way out from under Pettitte's testimony.

"I'm looking for an independent source to tell me what to believe," Cummings said. "There are a number of things that make (Pettitte's) testimony swing the balance over to Mr. McNamee. And a number of them come from your own words."

It was one thing for Clemens to attack the credibility of McNamee, who has his own ethical issues, but Pettitte testified not only about his own drug use. Just for honesty's sake, he admitted a few more things, and thereby became unassailable.

Clemens could only offer that Pettitte must have "misheard" or "misremembered" the detailed account Pettitte gave about Clemens telling him that he took HGH. But he had no answer for the fact that Pettitte's wife, in a sworn affidavit, said that her husband told her of the conversations at that time and the stories haven't changed.

It was a double barrel shot of destruction, the Pettittes asserting that their close friend was now not just a cheat, but a liar.

Clemens had nothing, just pathetic ramblings about how he was a great American for pitching at the Olympics, how if he was guilty of anything it was "being too nice," and throwing everyone from his agents, to his mother, to his wife under the bus of blame.

According to Clemens, this was just one big conspiracy, apparently. But he looked like a guy who's been surrounded by yes men for decades, someone so removed from reality he figured he could come to Capitol Hill, talk loud, and everyone would nod and leave him alone.

Only a couple of our most inane lawmakers bought any part of his nonsense defense.

His factual arguments were particularly ridiculous. He claimed Pettitte must be confused, because if Pettitte really thought Clemens had used HGH, he would have come and asked Clemens about the drug before taking it himself.

But Pettitte did think Clemens was using HGH and didn't discuss it with Clemens.

Cummings pointed out the failed logic behind that argument. Only to have Clemens repeat it a couple more times.

When Clemens claimed McNamee lied to save himself from prosecution, Cummings pointed out that McNamee told Pettitte about Clemens' drug use in 2002, which means he would have been predicting the future. How is that possible?

"I don’t know," Clemens said.

It was all he had, like a struggling pitcher waiting for a bullpen to come save him.

"It's hard to believe you, sir," Cummings said. "It's hard to say that; you are one of my heroes. But it's hard to believe you."

And Rep. Mark Souder after the hearings: "I found Clemens almost as believable as Rafael Palmeiro."

The lengthy hearings were predictably foolish and distracted at times, unnecessary tangents explored for no apparent reason.

In classic Washington fashion, things occasionally broke along partisan lines. Somehow Republicans and Democrats around here can't agree on anything, even the circumstances surrounding the formation of a "palpable mass" on Clemens' backside.

Clemens' best moments came when McNamee was skewered for his tendency to lie – mostly to newspaper reporters. But even that was Washington gumption; the idea that politicians should lecture anyone about telling the truth is absurd.

The most vocal grandstander was Rep. Dan Burton of rural Indiana, who absolutely skewered McNamee.

"This is really disgusting," Burton said. "I don't know what to believe. I know what I don't believe and that's you."

Strong words from a guy who while cheating on his wife knocked up his girlfriend and went years without visiting his son (though he was kind enough to cut him some checks).

But that's America and this is its pastime.

One of Clemens' chief problems was he was fighting on difficult ground. The contested points of his story centered on whether he took performance enhancing drugs, whether he told people he took them, whether he participated in witness tampering and whether he changed his under oath stories. These all were the heart of the matter here.

For McNamee, the debate was about whether he accurately remembered whether Clemens was at a party at Jose Canseco's house, a fairly unimportant detail, or whether he told tales in the newspapers, which is not a crime.

Clemens could never counter why McNamee was telling the truth about Pettitte and Knoblauch, but lying about him. Or why Pettitte was lying at all.

"Andy would have no reason to (lie)," Clemens said. "He's my friend."

Since everyone here acknowledged that one side must be lying and no one thought it was Pettitte, guess who that left with a self-imposed, ill-fated and unnecessary perjury charge on the horizon?

It ain't so Joe....... It just ain't so...... behind Eddie Cicotte you are the greatest.... you would never cheat.... illegal drug use in baseball would NEVER become a partisan schtick......THIS ISN'T JUST A PARTISAN GAME JOE....ERRR ROCKET...... It just ain't so Joe....I mean Rocket.... you didn't get hose Cy Youngs and all those rings because you CHEATED.... not you Barry....errrrrrr......I mean Roger....I mean Rocket..... no not you.....

Quote:

Clemens takes lumps on Capitol Hill: 'You're 1 of my heroes. But it's hard to believe you'

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Roger Clemens was told he didn't sound believable. Brian McNamee was branded a "drug dealer" and reminded of past lies.

With Congress apparently split over which man's version of events is true, it could be up to the Justice Department to decide.

Clemens and McNamee, the accused and his accuser, traded contradictory stories under oath Wednesday about whether the star pitcher was injected with steroids and human growth hormone by his former personal trainer.

And while many baseball fans are turning their attention to Florida and Arizona for the first official workouts of spring training Thursday -- ready for cries of "Play ball!" instead of talk about foul play -- there is sure to be more discussion of Clemens and McNamee in the nation's capital.

"It's just sad," Clemens' former manager with the New York Yankees, Joe Torre, said in Vero Beach, Fla., on the eve of his first camp with the Los Angeles Dodgers. "I'd just like to see baseball move on right now."

After the 400-page Mitchell Report, which contained the first public airing of McNamee's allegations about Clemens, and a 4 1/2 -hour House hearing about their he-said, he-said, little is settled.

"They don't disagree on a phone call or one meeting," committee chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., said during the hearing. "If Mr. McNamee is lying, he has acted inexcusably, and he has made Mr. Clemens an innocent victim. If Mr. Clemens isn't telling the truth, then he is acting shamefully and has smeared Mr. McNamee. I don't think there is anything in between."

Yet, afterward, Waxman told reporters: "I haven't reached any conclusions at this point" as to whether a criminal investigation is warranted.

Several congressmen said a referral from the committee isn't needed to trigger a Justice Department inquiry if prosecutors believe either man made false statements.

Sitting in the second row Wednesday was IRS Special Agent Jeff Novitzky, a key member of the team prosecuting Barry Bonds. Bonds, baseball's home run king, was indicted in November on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice stemming from his 2003 testimony to a grand jury in which he denied knowingly using performance-enhancing drugs.

It was Novitzky who last month collected used needles and bloody gauze pads that McNamee's camp turned over for testing. The trainer's lawyers call the items evidence that contains performance-enhancing drugs and Clemens' DNA. Clemens' side call the items "manufactured."

Either way, the Justice Department has them.

Former New York Yankees baseball pitcher Roger Clemens, left, is handed notes by one of his attorneys Lanny Breuer, right, on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, Feb. 13, 2008, as Clemens testified before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing on drug use in baseball.

McNamee told baseball investigator George Mitchell he injected Clemens 16 to 21 times with performance-enhancing drugs from 1998 to 2001. On Wednesday, McNamee said those numbers are low.

Clemens' vigorous denials about using steroids or HGH drew Congress' attention, and he repeated them Wednesday.

His reputation and Hall of Fame candidacy potentially at stake -- not to mention the possibility of criminal charges, should he lie -- Clemens said: "I have never taken steroids or HGH. No matter what we discuss here today, I am never going to have my name restored."

Sticking out his famous right arm -- the one that earned 354 major league wins, seven Cy Young Awards, $160 million -- Clemens pointed in the direction of McNamee, sitting only a few feet away.

Without looking at a man he once considered a friend, Clemens told the panel, "I have strong disagreements with what this man says about me."

Just like their stories, Clemens' Texas drawl was in strong contrast to the clipped cadences of McNamee, a former New York police officer.

"I told the investigators I injected three people -- two of whom I know confirmed my account," McNamee said. "The third is sitting at this table."

Former Clemens teammates Andy Pettitte and Chuck Knoblauch both acknowledged that McNamee was correct when he said they used performance enhancers. Both were excused from testifying, but Pettitte gave the committee a sworn affidavit in which he told the committee Clemens said nearly 10 years ago that he used HGH.

Waxman read from affidavits by Pettitte and his wife, Laura, supporting the accusations. Clemens said Pettitte "misremembers" things.

There were other revelations. Clemens' wife, Debbie, sat in the front row behind him and listened as Waxman implicated her in HGH use, citing statements by Pettitte. Clemens testified his wife took HGH once, although according to the transcript of last week's sworn deposition, Clemens told committee lawyers he didn't know of family members taking HGH.

Waxman also said Clemens might have tried to influence statements to the committee by the pitcher's former nanny.

Clemens and McNamee, by all accounts once good friends, rarely glanced at one another. When Clemens did turn to his right, it was with the Rocket's mound glare. Seated between them was the day's third witness, Charles Scheeler, a lawyer who helped compile the report on drug use in baseball headed by former Senate majority leader George Mitchell.

Debbie Clemens, wife of former New York Yankees baseball pitcher Roger Clemens, left, looks toward her husband on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, Feb. 13, 2008, as he testified before the House Oversight, and Government Reform committee hearing on drug use in baseball.
AP - Feb 13, 3:47 pm EST
More Photos
"Someone is lying in spectacular fashion," said Rep. Tom Davis of Virginia, the committee's ranking Republican.

Eventually, the committee split largely along party lines, with the Democrats reserving their most pointed queries for Clemens, and the Republicans giving McNamee a rougher time.

"It's hard to believe you, sir," Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., told Clemens. "I hate to say that. You're one of my heroes. But it's hard to believe."

Rep. Dan Burton, R-Ind., told McNamee: "You're here under oath, and yet we have lie after lie after lie after lie."

Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Conn., repeatedly called McNamee a "drug dealer."

One of McNamee's lawyers, Earl Ward, called it a "public flogging."

The Mitchell Report itself was prompted by another hearing on steroids held by the same committee in the same wood-paneled room, on March 17, 2005. That is best remembered for having tarnished the reputations of Mark McGwire -- who infamously repeated, "I'm not here to talk about the past" -- and Rafael Palmeiro -- who wagged his finger and declared he never had used steroids, then failed a drug test months later.

In a reference to that day, Rep. Mark Souder, R-Ind., cautioned Clemens and McNamee: "It's better not to talk about the past than to lie about the past."

At times, Clemens struggled to find the right words as he was pressed by lawmakers. Toward the end, he raised his voice to interrupt Waxman's closing remarks. The chairman pounded his gavel and said, "Excuse me, but this is not your time to argue with me."

When it was over, Clemens shook hands with Davis, then left through a back door.

Clemens later told reporters: "I'm very thankful and very grateful for this day to come. I'm glad for the opportunity finally. And, you know, I hope I get -- and I know I will have -- the opportunity to come here to Washington again under different terms."

On the Net:

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1743

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Redlemon · 02-14-2008, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

that being said, I'm sick of all this shit. This should be about baseball as a whole not just Barry and Clemens.

Here's a quote from Chris Dodd, our local representative, that was in our local paper:

Quote:

"So now we have a player here, one player. There were 89 players. One player is here. And he's here because everyone in this audience knows he is the icon in baseball," Shays said. "He's what brings all these cameras and all those people out there — in my judgment, we're lining up like you're going to a Roman circus, seeing the gladiators fight it out. And so my view of this hearing is this isn't where it's at."

...

Shays was one of the few committee members who stayed throughout most of the hearing. Others came and went.

Ustwo · 02-14-2008, 08:24 AM

Congress should deal with the health policy aspect of it, and how its affecting kids in school still etc.

That part isn't a bad thing.

Its become a grandstanding thing though and about the only good I've seen is its shown just how stupid some of the people in congress are.

There really is no need for public hearings like this.

Bear Cub · 02-14-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

There really is no need for public hearings like this.

Sure there is. And that reason is to fill the dry spell in sports after the BCS is over.

Glory's Sun · 02-14-2008, 10:43 AM

Clemens looked stupid. I mean comeon.. your best friend said you took it.. hell your wife even took a shot.. you can't explain the why's..

Mcnamee isn't my favorite person in this but he actually seems more credible than Roger at this point. It's almost sad.

I found it interesting how the republican side was badgering McNamee, while the Dems were blasting Clemens.

pan6467 · 02-19-2008, 12:35 AM

This reminds me of when I was 15 and my dad caught me drinking alcohol. I told my dad that I wasn't as bad as Mike down the road and 2 houses over. HE was smoking pot..... and I could be like him, so please dad don't punish me that bad.

Not only did I still got punished, I lost a great friend because I refused to just take responsibility for my actions. I thought some how that my turning in a friend (who I doubt has ever smoked pot and sure as Hell didn't then) and trying to deflect my own guilt, I would get off scott free.

What do the Yankees (and probably MLB as a whole would say this) think we are stupid? The NFL has a worse problem, so it's ok MLB has a bunch of steroidal and HGH cheats and no one will ever know what records or who did what honestly. Nope, the Yankees (and probably MLB as a whole) has to take down the NFL also and act like I tried to take down a friend as a teen. Wow.

That like this whole episode is sad, disgusting and truly pathetic.

Quote:

Hank Steinbrenner: Baseball unfairly singled out for performance-enhancing drugs
February 18, 2008

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- Hank Steinbrenner insists baseball is being picked on for its trouble with performance-enhancing drugs, and claims the problem is bigger in football.

"I don't like baseball being singled out," the New York Yankees senior vice president said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press on Monday night.

"Everybody that knows sports knows football is tailor-made for performance-enhancing drugs. I don't know how they managed to skate by. It irritates me. Don't tell me it's not more prevalent. The number in football is at least twice as many. Look at the speed and size of those players."

Answered NFL spokesman Greg Aiello: "We've had year-round random testing with immediate suspensions since 1990 and we conduct approximately 12,000 steroids tests a year."

Steinbrenner's comments came after Andy Pettitte met with reporters for the first time since the Yankees pitcher was named in the Mitchell Report. Two days after the report was released in December, Pettitte confirmed he used human growth hormone in 2002; two weeks ago, he told congressional investigators he also used HGH for one day in 2004.

"A lot of baseball people thought that baseball would be the last sport that it would be a problem in and probably just ignored it too long," Steinbrenner said. "But the fact is it's been in football a long time and it's been in basketball, I'm sure. Why baseball is being singled out, I don't know. I don't know. I know all the excuses -- `Well, it's America's game and it's the statistics.'

"That's not an excuse. If a sport is riddled with it, it's riddled with it. Why aren't they looking at the NFL?" he said.

Steinbrenner said baseball will "clean up the game."

"We're going to do it," he said.

Of course this comes the day the man they signed to a 16 million dollar contract admits to taking HGH but "not to cheat.... to help me come back from injuries faster".... IT WAS AND IS A FUCKING, ILLEGAL DRUG, YOU ASSWIPE. Besides don't you think taking it to "speed up your recovery time" is cheating to begin with? Old time players and legit players didn't do it, so why did you, ultimately to cheat.

How nice you signed the contract the day after you found out YOUR NAME had been put out. How nice you had a couple days notice to sign the contract and play dumb.

Wonder if you told King George and the princes, or if you waited until after the list came out.

How nice knowing your name is already ON the contract and because of the players union and the CBA even if the Yankees cut you or told you to quit, the contract is guaranteed. You think us fans don't know that MLB is the only professional sport where if the team cuts you for any reason you still get the money. And you have 16 MILLION reasons not to "retire".

ANDY PETTITTE YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT..... I HOPE NOT ONLY DO YOU NOT GET INTO THE HALL OF FAME BUT THAT IN YOUR FIRST GAME THIS YEAR YOU FUCKING BLOW OUT YOUR ARM. YOU SCUM SUCKING CHEATER.....

OOOO yeah, that's right you're a Christian also..... WWJD????? He wouldn't have fucking cheated ASSWIPE, and he sure wouldn't have signed that contract the day after finding out... "ooo my name is on the list."

I can maybe live with knowing you cheated, but the contract tactic was brilliant, sheer brilliance. Knowing you have $16 MILLION in the bank sure does help one sleep better doesn't it? Who needs a conscience when with 16 MILLION you can pay the best doctor in the world for sleeping aids to help you sleep.

Quote:

Contrite Pettitte leans on Yankees support
By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports
February 18, 2008

Jeff Passan
Yahoo! Sports
TAMPA, Fla. – Were the New York Yankees inclined to lavish their new billion-dollar stadium with their version of a modern-day Mount Rushmore, the four men stationed Monday under a tent – and under the gloaming that accompanies performance-enhancing drugs – may well have composed it.

To the side sat Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Derek Jeter, paragons, stalwarts, pinstripe lifers and, on this afternoon, intended distractions. Not that their unified presence could divert every camera trained on the front of the room where Andy Pettitte occupied the center seat.

In fact, Rivera, Posada and Jeter's appearance, a clever little ploy meant to show support for their embattled teammate, illuminated the Yankees' desperation to make the worn-off luster on their great dynasty of 10 years ago look instead like a well-hewn patina. As Pettitte spent 59 minutes admitting his guilt over using human growth hormone, talking about its repercussions, saying that he considered retirement and hoping the truth absolves him of further scrutiny – ha! – Rivera, Posada and Jeter sat in a row, and you well expected one to cover his eyes, another his ears and the third his mouth.

Rather, they were stone-faced, as though they'd been hit with buckshot of truth that, goodness, their championship teams really had been an epicenter of performance-enhancing drug use. More than 20 percent of the names that appeared in the Mitchell Report had played on the Yankees during the Joe Torre era. Pettitte and Roger Clemens and Chuck Knoblauch and Jason Giambi and Kevin Brown and Gary Sheffield and Jason Grimsley and on and on, all the way to Dan Naulty.

The Yankees were dirty. Among the dirtiest.

And not even the best Kirby vacuum, let alone a news conference, could clean that mess.

"Do I think I'm a cheater? I don't," Pettitte said. "Was it stupid? Yeah, it was stupid. Was I desperate? Yeah, I was probably desperate. I wish I would've never done this."

Pettitte's rationalization – he used HGH to recover from injuries, not to throw harder or lift more weights or gain an advantage – was specious at best. His claim that he wouldn't have used HGH had it been banned by baseball was even more dubious. Its use without a prescription was illegal by federal government standards, which, at last check, usurped those of Major League Baseball.

"When I used it in 2002, I felt like it was the right thing to do in my heart," Pettitte said. "Some people might believe that's hard to understand. … It was something that I thought about for a few days. I just thought it was the right thing to do."

The Yankees were in no mood to judge. Rivera, Posada and Jeter stood by Pettitte, even after Posada on Sunday said he believes Clemens' side of the story – he never used performance-enhancing drugs – which stands in stark contract with Pettitte's.

New York's brass, too, embraced Pettitte. He met with George, Hank and Hal Steinbrenner, apologized, asked for their forgiveness and received it. During the news conference, general manager Brian Cashman sat to Pettitte's left and manager Joe Girardi to his right, each looking inward and nodding his head, affirming Pettitte like a kid who goofed rather than a 35-year-old man who has won 201 major league games and willingly allowed another man to inject him with illicit drugs through the belly button.

Of course, the Yankees don't see it that way, the blinders a product of a sport-wide ignorance to performance-enhancing drugs ripping through baseball like crack infiltrated big cities in the '80s. The majority of the Yankees probably were clean, though a majority constitutes just 13 of 25 players, and if even one was cheating, it at least puts a scratch or dent into the shiny trophies New York so proudly displays.

Nonetheless, the Yankees brought Pettitte back for $16 million and didn't think enough of his transgressions to void the contract even though Pettitte almost surely knew of his name's inclusion in the Mitchell Report the day he signed it. Though Pettitte said he learned of it a few days before the report's release, Brian McNamee on Dec. 5 warned Jim Murray, an employee of Pettitte's agents, that he had given George Mitchell's investigators Pettitte and Clemens' names.

Pettitte signed Dec. 6.

With attention pelting him like acid rain, Pettitte said he contemplated retiring and that if the Yankees asked him to quit today, he would. Still, he arrived early Monday, threw a 35-pitch bullpen and readied himself for spring training games, which start in less than two weeks.

"I'm convinced he came back to play because he wants to," Girardi said.

Whatever his motivation – the money, the respite from sworn testimony, the desire to win the Yankees' 27th championship – Pettitte is here, and though his lawyers said he won't address any more questions about performance-enhancing drugs, they'll be tough to avoid.

Pettitte said he has not talked with Clemens since the hearing and only once in the last month. The lone subject he declined to touch was Clemens' allegation that Pettitte "misremembers" their conversation about Clemens' HGH use. Pettitte said he hopes he and Clemens can salvage their friendship, even though his testimony could cause the Justice Department to seek a perjury charge against Clemens.

"Even though the truth hurts sometimes and you don't want to share it, you have to get it out there," Pettitte said. "The truth will set you free, and I feel like I'm going to be able to sleep a lot better at night."

At the end of the inquisition, Girardi patted Pettitte on the back and Cashman tapped his chest. Pettitte stood from his seat, walked toward his teammates and hugged them. The embraces lasted, as though to pardon him from his past.

Andy Pettitte was a Yankee. For better or worse.

cameroncrazy822 · 02-21-2008, 08:05 AM

He's such an asshole! I'm sooo sick of this guy spewing all this mess about what he's done for baseball. He's done nothing more than make a lot of money from the game. Great pitcher but his over inflated sense of himself has really become old. Does he actually believe that his level of performance has increased to what it was, at his age, due to a great work ethic? He's a lunatic who juiced and now is lying and denying until the day he's dying. This pig will get what he deserves eventually. Oh and his roid rage induced throwing of a shattered bat at Mike Piazza because he thought it was the ball. ASSHOLE of the highest degree.

Hanxter · 02-28-2008, 08:04 PM

let's put this in perspective...

con"grease" has no business in this whatsoever... they can't even clean up there own act...

Quote:

usa today 02/28/08

Anyone who's been called for jury duty knows that one of the first questions a judge asks prospective jurors is: Do you know the defendant? A "yes" answer is almost always disqualifying, which makes perfect sense.

After all, how can people objectively sit in judgment of someone they know? Even if they could, the public would rightfully question the verdict.

Somehow, though, Congress has never been able to grasp that common-sense concept. Instead, both the House and Senate have ethics committees composed of lawmakers who are supposed to investigate misconduct by their colleagues? Some of them powerful members who dole out road projects, committee assignments and other career-altering perks.

The best measure of the current system's absurdity is that the panels are slow to begin inquiries, are even slower to conclude them, and rarely recommend tough sanctions.

Not that they're lacking for things to do. In the past two years alone, two high-profile lawmakers, former representatives Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R-Calif., and Bob Ney, R-Ohio, went to jail after long corruption investigations. Two others, Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., and Rep. Rick Renzi, R-Ariz., are under indictment. Through it all, there's been barely a peep out of the House ethics panel.

now i ask you... anyone have the NFL Network... if you do you're paying a premium to watch top notch games when it should be open to all and in that alone the NFL should have their anti-trust exemption revoked... see that coming???

as for the clemens deal... had he fessed up like andy did, this would be a moot point and all would be forgotten... and forgiven...

but, because we have so much less to concern ourselves with, the House yesterday decided to tax the oil companies with an $18B levy to force alternative energy exploration...

EXCUSE ME???

who the hell do they think is gonna pay for that???

and who the hell gives a rat's ass about clemens anyway???

it's all a waste of our money... pure and simple, bereaucratic pig boil...

it's always been about the money... except in this case roger "the dodger" is trying to buy his way out of this one with autographed baseballs...

and the bi-partisan politics bit the righties in the ass...

gasoline... $4.00 a gallon by the middle of summer and steroids is the hot topic...

makes me wanna throw up

Willravel · 02-28-2008, 08:36 PM

Agreed, Hanx.

Congress has about as much business being involved in baseball as the Supreme Court has to do with the 2000 election.

I've completely stopped watching and supporting baseball until they stop allowing fucking idiots to play and even bigger idiots in Congress pretend like this is their fucking job.

Strange Famous · 02-29-2008, 03:15 PM

As much as some people called me sexist with what I said about Marion Jones... cheating at sports does not mean someone deserves to go to prison.

I can well believe that Clemens cheated. I can see no reason that he should face legal punishment for it, or for lying about it to some self appointed, self glorifying kangeroo court.

Hanxter · 03-01-2008, 11:41 AM

clemens' credibilty is shot... move on

barry bonds looking for a job and no one wants him... move on

the NFL has a lock on the premium tv providers so you wanna watch a prime game on NLF net and have to pay for it... move on

congress wants to levy an $18 BILLION tax on the oil companies to push for alternative enegy plans which will trickle down to your wallet... move on

this is the same tactic the leagues are using to broadcast premium games on their own networks and have you pay for it... move on

a congressman is disgruntled that the pats beat his precious eagles and there may be secret intelligence invloved... move on

you want sports fixed??? force the issue and have congress revoke the leagues' anti-trust exemptions... don't threaten them with it... do it and move on

but noooooooooo... the almighty dollar is louder than the us po folk and it's in the best ineterest of congress to attempt to justify their existance in this election year with laughable side shows... fear they lose their seat in the capitol toilet throne

i mean "who's running the fucking show"???

02-13-2008, 08:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Clemens on Trial Wow, it's coming down to who you believe. I'm watching on Yahoo live and they are talking now about the abcess in Clemens' ass and which is it B12 or steroids. The congress man Lynch has some damning evidence. But watching this there is a congressman taking Clemens' side. One had to practically demand the MRI reports (Lynch) the other on Clemens' side is talking about recieving a report today from Clemens' lawyers. Now the question is why did Clemens' report take so long, yet his lawyers are quick to have evidence claiming innocence. It is a very weird hearing. Either way, I have come to the conclusion Clemens is guilty as Hell. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

02-13-2008, 10:16 AM	#11 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	The sad part is as I listen to the radio (1100 WTAM) during the break the 9-12 guy (BOB FRANKS) is making it VERY partisan. WTF???????? "Certain liberal members of congress are trying to fry Clemens, while others are being level headed and calling McNamee out." Just one quote as he plays commercials and apologizes for no Rush. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

02-14-2008, 08:24 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Congress should deal with the health policy aspect of it, and how its affecting kids in school still etc. That part isn't a bad thing. Its become a grandstanding thing though and about the only good I've seen is its shown just how stupid some of the people in congress are. There really is no need for public hearings like this. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

02-29-2008, 03:15 PM	#21 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	As much as some people called me sexist with what I said about Marion Jones... cheating at sports does not mean someone deserves to go to prison. I can well believe that Clemens cheated. I can see no reason that he should face legal punishment for it, or for lying about it to some self appointed, self glorifying kangeroo court. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

03-01-2008, 11:41 AM	#22 (permalink)
Hanxter The Griffin	clemens' credibilty is shot... move on barry bonds looking for a job and no one wants him... move on the NFL has a lock on the premium tv providers so you wanna watch a prime game on NLF net and have to pay for it... move on congress wants to levy an $18 BILLION tax on the oil companies to push for alternative enegy plans which will trickle down to your wallet... move on this is the same tactic the leagues are using to broadcast premium games on their own networks and have you pay for it... move on a congressman is disgruntled that the pats beat his precious eagles and there may be secret intelligence invloved... move on you want sports fixed??? force the issue and have congress revoke the leagues' anti-trust exemptions... don't threaten them with it... do it and move on but noooooooooo... the almighty dollar is louder than the us po folk and it's in the best ineterest of congress to attempt to justify their existance in this election year with laughable side shows... fear they lose their seat in the capitol toilet throne i mean "who's running the fucking show"??? Last edited by Hanxter; 03-01-2008 at 11:47 AM..

02-13-2008, 09:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	He's guilty. Might as well go ahead and schedule the perjury trial.. that being said, I'm sick of all this shit. This should be about baseball as a whole not just Barry and Clemens.

02-13-2008, 09:42 AM	#8 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	to make it look like they actually care. IMO, congress shouldn't even be involved. :shrug: Baseball should have the balls to do what it needs to do without the "help" of congress.. however, that's obviously not the case.

02-14-2008, 10:43 AM	#16 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Clemens looked stupid. I mean comeon.. your best friend said you took it.. hell your wife even took a shot.. you can't explain the why's.. Mcnamee isn't my favorite person in this but he actually seems more credible than Roger at this point. It's almost sad. I found it interesting how the republican side was badgering McNamee, while the Dems were blasting Clemens.

02-21-2008, 08:05 AM	#18 (permalink)
cameroncrazy822 Junkie Location: MD	He's such an asshole! I'm sooo sick of this guy spewing all this mess about what he's done for baseball. He's done nothing more than make a lot of money from the game. Great pitcher but his over inflated sense of himself has really become old. Does he actually believe that his level of performance has increased to what it was, at his age, due to a great work ethic? He's a lunatic who juiced and now is lying and denying until the day he's dying. This pig will get what he deserves eventually. Oh and his roid rage induced throwing of a shattered bat at Mike Piazza because he thought it was the ball. ASSHOLE of the highest degree.

02-28-2008, 08:36 PM	#20 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Agreed, Hanx. Congress has about as much business being involved in baseball as the Supreme Court has to do with the 2000 election. I've completely stopped watching and supporting baseball until they stop allowing fucking idiots to play and even bigger idiots in Congress pretend like this is their fucking job.