Halx

I was interested in the Diamondbacks vs Yankees. I was interested in Angels vs Giants. My team wasn't involved, but I was interested.

Phillies and Rays? Pass.

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djtestudo

Why?

Two teams that had great years (no wild-cards or 83-win teams), very young with most of their stars signed long-term and who could be around as contenders for a while, and the stories of which I already touched upon?

Things like this confuse me, especially since you mention two other series' you were interested in.

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
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Halx

I think the problem with both teams is that neither has any real story going on. The Rays may be the more interesting of the two teams, but we've only had a year to even get to know them. They're a new franchise comprised of unknown young upstarts. When the Diamondbacks played the "brand new franchise in the world series" role, they were stocked with veterans who have histories and fans, and two of the most dominant pitchers of their generation. The Phillies have.. who? Howard? Rollins? These stars aren't even producing and they're winning games with their other people. Nothing is more boring than a team that has a few all-stars and then a huge talent dropoff with the rest of their players.. and only Hamels seems to be performing like a headliner. So you ask yourself how they managed to even get here. How?

Either the Cubs or the Dodgers should be representing the NL, and either the Angels or Redsox should be representing the AL. It would be so much more interesting and it would feel so much more right.

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BurntToast

Maybe MLB should just reduce the number of teams and leave only the ones that you deem "worthy" of being in the World Series. Problem solved.

The Dodgers had a mediocre year in a mediocre division and got beat by a better team in the playoffs. The Cubs... well they are just the Cubs.

Tampa had a great year in a tough division and beat Goliath (Boston) in the regular season AND the playoffs.

Philly started off hot and really stalled over the rest of the season. They have had 1 or 2 players that get hot at a time and win the games for them. They STILL won 92 games and beat (get this) the Dodgers in the playoffs.

To say that these 2 teams shouldn't be in the WS is just wrong. They earned their spot there. If you don't care about the games then all I can say is tune out until next year.

Hopefully these 2 young teams will see each other again next year in the WS and then you can have the story that you need so bad... or not.

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djtestudo

But that IS their story. A team of that has had no success in the past suddenly finding themselves having legitimate success with more extremely young talent than possibly any baseball team ever.

Which was THEIR story. Teams don't have to have the same story all the time, or else it gets boring.

Seriously? If the Dodgers had made it, but Manny and Loney and Ethier went into slumps, would they suddenly be "The Dodgers have...who?"

By being the second-best team in their league, and winning two playoff series. Same way the Cubs would have got there (except they were the best team in the NL) or the Dodgers (except they were the worst playoff team since the 2006 Cardinals by record).

You really need to explain this comment, because it makes no sense. Do you believe that the Rays and Phillies should not be ALLOWED to make the World Series? Or that a team that hasn't made the World Series in almost 65 years (the Cubs) feels more "right" then a team that has been there four times in that same span while being one of the worst (historically speaking) teams in professional sports?

You sound like a Yankees fan, and that's NOT a compliment
-----Added 25/10/2008 at 03 : 20 : 13-----
Yeah, and they didn't have to luck into a Hall-of-Famer with a grudge and a terrible division to do it

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Halx

All I'm saying is that this year's world series teams are there by some bad storytelling fluke.

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BurntToast

All i'm saying is that this is our year to finally win it. Even if there is no appeal outside of the 2 home teams markets and baseball nuts err... fanatics.

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djtestudo

Only for someone who doesn't appreciate a good story. Or the best teams winning.

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

Philly will win tonight..

yay..

now we can finally get over this year and get things straightened out for next year

djtestudo

Only two days behind

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

and the trade talks begin..

so far 65 players have opted in the free agent market including Ben Sheets, Manny, Varitek and Milton Bradley.

Delgado had his option picked up by the mets.. no brainer there.

Teixeira and Cora are out there as well. There is a wealth of talent on the market right now. Some teams are going to be loaded next season. It will be interesting to see the makeup of some teams as the players get signed.

Boston for one has some issues with Cora and Tek, but I won't be surprised if they make a move for Tex and keep Tek. The only thing they need is some bullpen help as they should have the starting rotation intact for next year including Buckholz who is doing well in the Fall league. They'll probably pick up Wake's $4 mil option which is dirt cheap. They just need a big bat again.. and Tex can certainly fill that. Of course they would have to do something with Lowell or Youk.. I'd hate to be in Theo's shoes right now.

kutulu

It isn't the fault of the Phillies that you don't know their team. They were a great team this year, 2nd in runs scored, tied for 2nd in runs allowed. Whatever dropoff you see in talent is a lack of understanding about who they are.

Glory's Sun

Dodgers make a 2 year $45 million offer to Manny with a third year option. I doubt this will get him though. He wants more money.. and so does Boras.

Peavy is being courted by the Braves, Cubs and Dodgers. The Cubs look like they are in the front position on this deal. Atlanta doesn't want to give up young talent.. Dodgers could end up with him to replace Penny.

Things are starting to happen.. and I think Peavy will be dealt within a month.. the rest of the field.. not so fast.

kutulu

I don't think the Pads will trade Peavy to the Dodgers.

BurntToast

Phillies are possibly looking to trade for Holliday from the Rockies. The trade might have to involve Shane Victorino which is not a great idea IMO. They do have a fast young outfielder in the minors but who knows if he is ready and able.

They are also looking at Japanese pitcher Junichi Tazawa but so are the Braves.

I agree. Trading your best pitcher to a division rival would be a really stupid move. I don't think that the Pads are stupid.

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QuasiMondo

As expected, the Mets are preparing to make a move on closer Francisco Rodriguez, with offers for Kerry Wood or Brian Fuentes in the works should things with K-Rod fall though.

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djtestudo

Orioles are rumored to be in on Khalil Greene, which would be interesting if he could come inexpensively. Get him out of Petco and he looks like a pretty good hitter with pretty good defense.

He's third on my off-season wish list behind A.J. Burnett and the fourth-greatest player ever to come out of Baltimore.

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

I think you are right, however, from what I hear the Padre's are just wanting to see who will give up the most. If the Dodgers send enough young talent to the table, the Pads may just send Peavy there. Stranger things have happened.

QuasiMondo

Willie Randolph has signed on with the Milwaukee Brewers to be their new bench coach. If they manage to hold on to Sabathia, they might be a force in the N.L. Central next year.

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Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

djtestudo

Colorado traded outfielder Matt Holliday to Oakland for pitchers Greg Smith and Huston Street, and outfielder Carlos Gonzalez (supposedly).

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

QuasiMondo

I think that Holliday trade was killed.

*edit*

Guess not.

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Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Glory's Sun

looks like the Dodgers are prepared to up their deal to Manny with a guaranteed 3 years.

the Halos are reportedly not interested in resigning K-Rod, and are looking to make an offer to Manny as well. Not sure how they can afford to go after Manny and Tex.. but I guess they have something planned.

Braves look like they will get Peavy..

Glory's Sun

well today is the day where offers should be flying like crazy.. interested in what the Angels want to offer Manny as well as what the skanks want to offer CC. I think they will offer CC somewhere around 140 million..

I don't even care if the skanks land him.. he will be just another yankee pitcher who is overpaid and under performs

QuasiMondo

I'm hearing reports that the Mets are putting together an offer for Sabathia as well.

Why?

Does Minaya not realize that the Wilpons' money is better spent in the bullpen? Or on a second baseman? Or even an outfielder?

Tell me again why Willie Randolph was fired?

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Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Glory's Sun

the mets are probably thinking about the one two combo of Santana and CC. don't think it will work.. but..




and yes you are spot on

pan6467

I'm sorry, at the risk of sounding bitter.... we are in the middle of a fucking recession, our government needs to bail out the banking and automobile industries, millions are trying to just make it and MLB owners, players, agents want to start outrageous bidding wars??????

Fuck that, fuck baseball, fuck the players. Maybe some of them need to see what it's like to try to make real money and fight to keep what you have. Maybe some of them need to truly get their fucking heads right and say, "hey, the country is not doing to great, the stock market is in the shitter, GM, Chrysler, Ford workers maybe losing jobs, there are people losing everything..... maybe I can take a few MILLION less."

Maybe the owners can say, "Ya know what fans, we respect you, so instead of playing who has more money.... we're not going to have these outrageous bidding wars.... we'll cut salaries so we don't have to raise prices during these times of hardship."

Maybe Fox, ESPN and the broadcasters can say, "Ya know what, ad revenue is going to decrease massively if the car companies and several other industries can't spend, so we're going to really cut back on what we pay MLB for their rights because, well.... we're not going to make money on them and we're not going to condone their spending and watch haves and have not teams. The ratings are down, revenue is going to be decreasing... naw, we'll just find some other events to televise."

DEATH TO THE FUCKING MLB AND AND PLAYER'S UNION.... DEATH TO GREEDY FUCKING SCUM BAGS WHO DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE FANS..... DEATH TO THE INDUSTRY.... FUCK YOU ALL..... YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FANS... GO TO JAPAN OR KOREA.

YOU WANT EVERY LAST PENNY WHILE PEOPLE ARE LOSING EVERYTHING??????? FUCK YOU ALL.

Sorry but had to rant..... it's fucking making me sick.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

djtestudo

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

pan6467

Tell me this, in all honesty....

How can anyone justify the spending and salaries? The car companies are needing bailed out, advertising is going to be nil, tv revenue will be decreasing, MOST cities will see attendance decline dramatically, people are losing jobs, retirees benefits, millions are fighting to just make a living.....

So how do you justify it?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

djtestudo

People are still willing to pay for the product.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

pan6467

Where? What cities showed growth in ticket sales this year? And maybe Milwaukee or Tampa if they did, probably peaked only because of the team this year. Milwaukee without Sheets and Sabathia doesn't stand a chance to contend.... and I seriously doubt they can outspend the big boys. So Milwaukee is pretty much done.

What cities have populations that have money to sell 2 or 3 million tix anymore? Cleveland? Cincy? Pittsburgh? Detroit? KC, Denver, Oakland, San Fran, Philly? Even St Louis, Miami, Houston, Denver and so on are hurting.

You are going to have disparity that will kill franchises, that will pretty much leave mid market to even low end high market clubs dead.

It was not that long ago, MLB was telling the press and fans that a few clubs were barely able to make payroll.

Look, you can only bleed fans so much before the money dries up, so why continue to push your luck?

You say, "there's a recession, teams are hurting, for the good of the sport and to show fans who are hurting financially respect we're not pushing the bar up this time around. When the economy gets better, we'll open our wallets again, but right now, nope."

Look, without ad revenue, the broadcasts make no money. The car companies and beer are the 2 biggest advertisers for baseball. The car companies are broke, and Busch just sold out. The advertising dollar is not going to be there. So Fox, ESPN, and to lesser degrees WGN, TBS and so on will be paying less. That's a lot of lost revenue for baseball. Revenue they will have no choice to make up for but to raise ticket prices. Once they do that, they are done.

Then, you have to look at companies that buy loges, PSL's, season tickets and so on, that just won't be willing or able to shell out the money. That revenue will need to be made up, so you raise prices more.

Pretty soon, those 25 dollar tix cost close to 100, the hot dogs, sodas and so on will cost more and the average family that may have been able to afford a couple games or a weekend series over the Summer can't afford it. The youth today aren't buying tix in droves or even as interested in the game as my generation was, so those kids won't miss it much.

Then there are fans like me, becoming more and more disenfranchised with the salaries, the total lack of respect shown the fans and just don't care anymore, don't really watch the games like I used to, don't listen to them on the radio, may follow the season online or in the papers but really, there's no fun there anymore. It's a business that has no respect or care for their fans so why should I care?

I'll go to minor league games, where for 30 bucks I can have great seats, eat some decent stadium food, be able to talk to some players before and after games and have a great time watching players trying to prove themselves and play hard.

But, MLB will eventually run them down by having to up those prices to help pay for the big league teams. Then, I'll just go watch little league and neighborhood softball leagues.

Point is, you can only disenfranchise and rob the fans so long before they leave.

And eventually when you have the same teams year after year after year in the playoffs while everyone else goes broke and they don't even have the money to sign the players they draft or put money into the minor leagues so that they may build a team..... your done.

LA, NY, Chicago and Boston will not be able to keep MLB alive.

In the end, it's all about fan respect.... and I have a feeling IF the few ultra rich teams go out and give extravagant contracts.... MLB is dead. The fans in the smaller market teams won't pay and corporate America is too poor to pay anymore.

It's just like everything else..... eventually this bubble will burst if you keep overinflating it, which you are doing. Eventually, even the richest of teams will go bust.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

djtestudo

Nothing in that statement contradicts mine, despite much of it being accurate.

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Amaras

Sorry Pan, but I agree with djt. These ridiculous salaries are supported in the market, until they aren't. To date, they can get away with it. I liked what you wrote, and agree with almost all of it, but UNTIL the bottom drops out, they are merely getting all they can.
Just like I do from where I work, and I hope you do as well.
The '93 strike destroyed my Expos, but the players today are benefiting from it. Oh well.
Go Expos!! not anymore

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pan6467

But that's my point. Why continue disenfranchising fans, the very fans you are going to depend on to pay those salaries?

We see what unions and greed, management and greed have done to corporate America.... why would you want to do that to your sport?


No, I don't. I look at the company I work for as a team. As long as ownership doesn't exploit the worker and pay way below market and make golden parachutes for themselves, I'm ok with it. If Management does this, then I think there is a need for unions, government or an outside arbitrator to step in and correct the problem.

I feel the same whether I am a worker or when I owned a business..... Fair wages in all areas that allow growth and company stability in hard times. When times are good, pay can increase to share the good fortunes, when times are bad, you may have lower or no raises until business picks back up and the company is solid again.

If all businesses ran that way, if MLB ran that way, no one could complain and I don't think we'd have the economic turmoil we have now.

Management, workers and even customers ALL need to realize they need to work together. MLB seems to think each team, each subsidiary, needs to destroy the other financially. Then the players seem to think that they are owed far more than anyone else on the planet. Meanwhile, both sides fuck over the customer.

What happens to MLB when the broadcasters, corporate America and the fans stand up and say enough? And why continue too play Russian Roulette, knowing there will be a time when it happens.... but yet instead of trying to prevent it, MLB keeps pushing the envelope and I wonder if they actually want that time to come because you have owners who don't care about the whole.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Ilow

Pan, these salaries are absurd, but you can argue that they have been absurd ever since the players had to hold a regular job in the offseason. They play a freakin game for christ sake! But really, somehow the market is more or less supporting the league, even given the exorbitant salaries. In other news the Boston Red Sox froze ticket prices for the first time in forever. So very minor kudos to them.

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Glory's Sun

hmm.. I see what you are saying pan.. but once again, I'll just respectfully disagree to a point.


The auto industries don't need to be bailed out.. fuck em. I don't give a shit if they fail or not. they should file chapter 11 and restructure. bad management is bad management.

but anyway.. if the teams want to pay the price they can. it's up to the teams to control the markets not the fans.

kutulu

Anyways, back to baseball talk...

The BBWA have done a great job so far with their awards. Although it was tough to see Lincecum beat Brandon Webb, he deserved it.

Glory's Sun

Pedroia is AL MVP.. WOOT!

and.. Pujols NL MVP?? that one I don't understand at all.

kutulu

Pujols won because he had an amazing season when there was no true standout in any NL team. He had a 190 OPS+. Jones was the next closest with 174. From there it drops to the 150's.

djtestudo

Pujols was easily the best player in the NL, and there wasn't anyone on the playoff teams close enough to deserve to go ahead (no, not Ryan Howard, either).

I'd argue that the AL MVP was a more-even field of candidates without a dominant force this season, so I don't have too much of a problem with Dustin Jeter winning.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Ilow

Pedroia winning is another W for the little guys. It's almost hard to imagine a better beginning to a career. ROY, MVP, GG, SS...he's going to need a bigger mantle before long. As much as I hate cockiness normally, I find his sort of endearing and charming. I guess after all of the slights and doubters he deserves some braggadocio. Good for him.

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"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
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