3&5-year-old Black Belts ????? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

onezero1 · 06-17-2003, 06:15 PM

Check out this link
http://cities.expressindia.com/fulls...p?newsid=54704

I think its wrong to hand out a Black Belt before someone is at least in their teens!

What do u guys think is a good age to start awarding a Black Belt?

Lark

Phaenx · 06-17-2003, 06:27 PM

When they can kick my ass they can have a black belt. I scoff martial arts anyhow, I think it's mostly physical prowess and mental focus rather then style that decides who wins a fight. I can tell you right now, I could destroy all of them with no effort =D.

warrrreagl · 06-17-2003, 06:52 PM

Teenage is young enough. Anything before that is just jacking off the parents.

As a teacher, I used to grimmace at martial arts, because the parents of the school monsters ALWAYS enrolled the little fuckers in martial arts. They claimed it would teach them "self-control and discipline." All that happened is the martial arts instructors laughed all the way to the bank, and the bullies become high holy terrors.

Nappa · 06-17-2003, 07:18 PM

I started taking martial arts when I was 14, and the majority of my classmates were around 7 or 8. Quite a few of the younger children were already blackbelts, which I found really amusing. I mean, what the hell can a seven year old do in a fight? He can be as mature and disciplined as he wants but he'll still get his ass kicked.

It's pretty much all about the money. If the parents put forth the cash they'll give little jimmy any belt he wants.

YourNeverThere · 06-17-2003, 09:06 PM

I just assume that this world is just the matrix and all i have to do is download kung fu into my head, so it doesnt really matter

phredgreen · 06-17-2003, 09:45 PM

*thread moved to tilted sports*

BigGov · 06-17-2003, 10:53 PM

Handing out a blackbelt to a someone before they are a teenager in most cases just tarnishes the meaning of the belt itself. IMO, a blackbelt should require more than just a demonstration of the moves, but also a knowledge and a respect for the culture and history. Sure, there might be some preteens that can do that, but they'll only be a fraction of the overall percentage.

Pheatius · 06-18-2003, 11:21 AM

Martial Arts have been watered down so much (In America at least) that it is hard to find a good school nowadays. It is best (IMHO) to find a traditional school with an oriental master running the studio or someone that was trained by the master. Otherwise it is just a cardio class with pretty little belts and cool uniforms.

queedo · 07-08-2003, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
When they can kick my ass they can have a black belt. I scoff martial arts anyhow, I think it's mostly physical prowess and mental focus rather then style that decides who wins a fight. I can tell you right now, I could destroy all of them with no effort =D.

So you can kick pre-teens asses, wow we are all very proud of you!

As far as the real topic, I know several people who received their blackbelt in their teens and they have turned out to be 3rd or 4th degree blackbelts and are excellent martial artists.

striderkevin · 08-05-2003, 10:43 AM

Ever since martial arts has been introduced in America, it has seriously been watered down. There are few places that have quality teachers with quality instruction. I've seen 8 and 10 year old kids who have their "black belts" but are usually from places like Kovars, which give out black belts like candy.

queedo · 08-05-2003, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by striderkevin
Ever since martial arts has been introduced in America, it has seriously been watered down. There are few places that have quality teachers with quality instruction. I've seen 8 and 10 year old kids who have their "black belts" but are usually from places like Kovars, which give out black belts like candy.

You are correct, many places they just go through the motions and don't really teach good karate.

TheKak · 08-05-2003, 02:44 PM

I did martial arts for a long time, and yeah you are mostly right, lots of the teachers are just out to make a buck. Usually they charge per month (I stopped by a place that had outrageous prices, over $400 PER month, not including sign up fees, uniforms, or belt tests). Belt tests are just another way to get more money ($200 for a fucking 2 hour test which doesnt require any materials you dont already have?). Either way I got my blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do. Can say TKD is almost absolutley useless in a real fight. Sure you can kick the shit out of someone who cant fight, but when you are put up agaisnt a "street fighter" you will probably get waxed. If you want to do non-sport martial arts, look for a school that doesnt fuck around with bullshit like forms/katas, and does full contact sparring (no pulling punches) and ground work. Most traditional arts are a waste of time if you are looking for something practical.

floonine · 08-06-2003, 08:38 AM

the kwoon that i attend kung-fu at has a couple of students that seem to have received higher belts when they don't seem to deserve it. it is the only thing I don't like about my school

cheesemoney · 08-06-2003, 02:49 PM

Belts mean nada. The one thing that the Gracies and BJJers have right is that they make you work (forever) for your belt. It should take way over 10 years to get to black -- but even the Gracies fuck up the way they don't emphasize the standing game or striking as much as they should (I know from experience). Look at the top of the sport fighting world, and you'll see all the top guys cross-training like mad.
Its not that TKD is totally useless, its that you tend to fight for stupid points and don't work the ground game NEARLY ENOUGH.
Muai Thai is basic in its strikes but you take a POUNDING and that makes you tough. You'll find out real quick in real-sparring how many high kicks can be useless, but only in a street fight will you find out how useless dropping to your back in the guard can be when your opponets buddy has a beer bottle in his hand.

If you wanna learn defense, ignore belts and find a school that lets you roll around and at least take some hits to get the feel of things. You don't need to be UFC or Pride champ and punish yourself--but the punishment does help.
Cheese

floonine · 08-07-2003, 06:26 AM

Man, punishment is really what I want in a martial art: I want to feel like I am dissapointing someone, y'know? I want to get punched in the jaw, and thrown to the ground, and black and blue because that is what the training is supposed to be about; I am supposed to learn from mistakes as well as from normal teachings from katas or whatever.

The kwoon I attend is really good about trying to mix different teaching styles up, to get a good balance for different people who attend and their different styles and levels of experience, but they don't hit hard enough when they spar. Some would argue that it is out of respect for me when the opponent is a higher belt level, and they don't want to kill me... but that seems to be a waste of time for them as well as me. It could be argued that they are practicing control, but I don't want to work harder on someone if they aren't going to try to match whatever energy I put out...

That in itself is recursive; I won't fight harder if they don't try harder, and they won't try harder if they don't think I can fight harder, etc.

agentsmith · 08-11-2003, 03:37 PM

Heh. It's one thing to get a black belt, doesn't mean you know how to use it.

Tandem · 08-11-2003, 04:05 PM

I haven't done any form of martial arts (TKD) for a number of years now (9).

But having said that, if my Master (still) was to award a minor with a Black Belt (not that he would anyway) - I would seriously consider leaving the club.

No Senior Black Belt (Master's) of any style could seriously expect to credit any child so young and expect the World Taekwondo Association to acknowledge it with the respect it would generally be deserving. The youngster would have to be a seriously gifted child with the aptitude of a person ten yeras his elder (at least).

Perhaps the dad made a nice donation to the club ??

queedo · 08-11-2003, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by agentsmith
Heh. It's one thing to get a black belt, doesn't mean you know how to use it.

Very true, most don't understand what it means to be a black belt

06-17-2003, 06:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
onezero1 Upright	3&5-year-old Black Belts ????? Check out this link http://cities.expressindia.com/fulls...p?newsid=54704 I think its wrong to hand out a Black Belt before someone is at least in their teens! What do u guys think is a good age to start awarding a Black Belt? Lark

06-17-2003, 06:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	When they can kick my ass they can have a black belt. I scoff martial arts anyhow, I think it's mostly physical prowess and mental focus rather then style that decides who wins a fight. I can tell you right now, I could destroy all of them with no effort =D. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

06-17-2003, 06:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	Teenage is young enough. Anything before that is just jacking off the parents. As a teacher, I used to grimmace at martial arts, because the parents of the school monsters ALWAYS enrolled the little fuckers in martial arts. They claimed it would teach them "self-control and discipline." All that happened is the martial arts instructors laughed all the way to the bank, and the bullies become high holy terrors. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

06-17-2003, 09:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
YourNeverThere Practical Anarchist Location: Yesterday i woke up stuck in hollywood	I just assume that this world is just the matrix and all i have to do is download kung fu into my head, so it doesnt really matter __________________ The Above post is a direct quote from Shakespeare

06-17-2003, 09:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
phredgreen who? Location: the phoenix metro	thread moved to tilted sports __________________ My country is the world, and my religion is to do good. - Thomas Paine

06-17-2003, 07:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
Nappa Tilted Location: behind you!!	I started taking martial arts when I was 14, and the majority of my classmates were around 7 or 8. Quite a few of the younger children were already blackbelts, which I found really amusing. I mean, what the hell can a seven year old do in a fight? He can be as mature and disciplined as he wants but he'll still get his ass kicked. It's pretty much all about the money. If the parents put forth the cash they'll give little jimmy any belt he wants.

06-17-2003, 10:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	Handing out a blackbelt to a someone before they are a teenager in most cases just tarnishes the meaning of the belt itself. IMO, a blackbelt should require more than just a demonstration of the moves, but also a knowledge and a respect for the culture and history. Sure, there might be some preteens that can do that, but they'll only be a fraction of the overall percentage. __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

06-18-2003, 11:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
Pheatius Insane Location: The South	Martial Arts have been watered down so much (In America at least) that it is hard to find a good school nowadays. It is best (IMHO) to find a traditional school with an oriental master running the studio or someone that was trained by the master. Otherwise it is just a cardio class with pretty little belts and cool uniforms.

08-05-2003, 10:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
striderkevin Crazy Location: Can't tell you, then I'd have to kill you.	Ever since martial arts has been introduced in America, it has seriously been watered down. There are few places that have quality teachers with quality instruction. I've seen 8 and 10 year old kids who have their "black belts" but are usually from places like Kovars, which give out black belts like candy. __________________ "A false life is equal to death. Be your true self" -Strider Hiryu

08-05-2003, 02:44 PM	#12 (permalink)
TheKak Insane Location: Virginia	I did martial arts for a long time, and yeah you are mostly right, lots of the teachers are just out to make a buck. Usually they charge per month (I stopped by a place that had outrageous prices, over $400 PER month, not including sign up fees, uniforms, or belt tests). Belt tests are just another way to get more money ($200 for a fucking 2 hour test which doesnt require any materials you dont already have?). Either way I got my blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do. Can say TKD is almost absolutley useless in a real fight. Sure you can kick the shit out of someone who cant fight, but when you are put up agaisnt a "street fighter" you will probably get waxed. If you want to do non-sport martial arts, look for a school that doesnt fuck around with bullshit like forms/katas, and does full contact sparring (no pulling punches) and ground work. Most traditional arts are a waste of time if you are looking for something practical. __________________ Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.

08-06-2003, 08:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
floonine Insane Location: Silicon Valley, Utah	the kwoon that i attend kung-fu at has a couple of students that seem to have received higher belts when they don't seem to deserve it. it is the only thing I don't like about my school __________________ Political arguments do not exist, after all, for people to believe in them, rather they serve as a common, agreed-upon excuse. Foolish people who take them in earnest sooner or later discover inconsistencies in them, begin to protest and finish finally and infamously as heretics.

08-06-2003, 02:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
cheesemoney Loser Location: Paradise	Belts mean nada. The one thing that the Gracies and BJJers have right is that they make you work (forever) for your belt. It should take way over 10 years to get to black -- but even the Gracies fuck up the way they don't emphasize the standing game or striking as much as they should (I know from experience). Look at the top of the sport fighting world, and you'll see all the top guys cross-training like mad. Its not that TKD is totally useless, its that you tend to fight for stupid points and don't work the ground game NEARLY ENOUGH. Muai Thai is basic in its strikes but you take a POUNDING and that makes you tough. You'll find out real quick in real-sparring how many high kicks can be useless, but only in a street fight will you find out how useless dropping to your back in the guard can be when your opponets buddy has a beer bottle in his hand. If you wanna learn defense, ignore belts and find a school that lets you roll around and at least take some hits to get the feel of things. You don't need to be UFC or Pride champ and punish yourself--but the punishment does help. Cheese

08-07-2003, 06:26 AM	#15 (permalink)
floonine Insane Location: Silicon Valley, Utah	Man, punishment is really what I want in a martial art: I want to feel like I am dissapointing someone, y'know? I want to get punched in the jaw, and thrown to the ground, and black and blue because that is what the training is supposed to be about; I am supposed to learn from mistakes as well as from normal teachings from katas or whatever. The kwoon I attend is really good about trying to mix different teaching styles up, to get a good balance for different people who attend and their different styles and levels of experience, but they don't hit hard enough when they spar. Some would argue that it is out of respect for me when the opponent is a higher belt level, and they don't want to kill me... but that seems to be a waste of time for them as well as me. It could be argued that they are practicing control, but I don't want to work harder on someone if they aren't going to try to match whatever energy I put out... That in itself is recursive; I won't fight harder if they don't try harder, and they won't try harder if they don't think I can fight harder, etc. __________________ Political arguments do not exist, after all, for people to believe in them, rather they serve as a common, agreed-upon excuse. Foolish people who take them in earnest sooner or later discover inconsistencies in them, begin to protest and finish finally and infamously as heretics. Last edited by floonine; 08-07-2003 at 06:31 AM..

08-11-2003, 03:37 PM	#16 (permalink)
agentsmith Crazy	Heh. It's one thing to get a black belt, doesn't mean you know how to use it.

08-11-2003, 04:05 PM	#17 (permalink)
Tandem Insane Location: Brisbane, Australia	I haven't done any form of martial arts (TKD) for a number of years now (9). But having said that, if my Master (still) was to award a minor with a Black Belt (not that he would anyway) - I would seriously consider leaving the club. No Senior Black Belt (Master's) of any style could seriously expect to credit any child so young and expect the World Taekwondo Association to acknowledge it with the respect it would generally be deserving. The youngster would have to be a seriously gifted child with the aptitude of a person ten yeras his elder (at least). Perhaps the dad made a nice donation to the club ?? __________________ It is not a mistake, but an experience. But, if you've experienced it before then you should already know if it is a mistake. Last edited by Tandem; 08-11-2003 at 04:11 PM..