Floyd Landis - you idiot - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Craven Morehead · 07-27-2006, 07:24 AM

Failed the drug test after Stage 17.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?cnn=yes

Quote:

Landis tests positive
Phonak: Tour winner had high levels of testosterone
Posted: Thursday July 27, 2006 10:16AM; Updated: Thursday July 27, 2006 11:11AM

Floyd Landis has tested positive for high leves of testosterone during the Tour de France.

LONDON (AP) -- Tour de France champion Floyd Landis tested positive for high levels of testosterone during the race, his Phonak team said Thursday on its Web site.

The statement came a day after the UCI, cycling's world governing body, said an unidentified rider had failed a drug test during the Tour.

And the statement came just four days after Landis stood on the victory podium on the Champs-Elysees, succeeding seven-time winner Lance Armstrong as an American winner in Paris.

The Swiss-based Phonak team said it was notified by the UCI on Wednesday that Landis' sample showed "an unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone" when he was tested after stage 17 of the race last Thursday.

Landis made a remarkable comeback in that Alpine stage, racing far ahead of the field for a solo win that moved him from 11th to third in the overall standings. He regained the leader's yellow jersey two days later.

Landis rode the Tour with a degenerative hip condition that he has said will require surgery in the coming weeks or months.

Arlene Landis, his mother, said Thursday that she wouldn't blame her son if he was taking medication to treat the pain in his injured hip, but "if it's something worse than that, then he doesn't deserve to win."

"I didn't talk to him since that hit the fan, but I'm keeping things even keel until I know what the facts are," she said in a phone interview from her home in Farmersville, Pa. "I know that this is a temptation to every rider but I'm not going to jump to conclusions ... It disappoints me."

Phonak said Landis would ask for an analysis of his backup "B" sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that this is resulting from a mistake."

"The team management and the rider were both totally surprised of this physiological result," the Phonak statement said.

Landis has been suspended by his team pending the results. If the second sample confirms the initial finding, he will be fired from the team, Phonak said.

Landis wrapped up his Tour de France win on Sunday, keeping the title in U.S. hands for the eighth straight year. Armstrong, long dogged by doping whispers and allegations, won the previous seven. Armstrong never has tested positive for drugs and vehemently has denied doping.

Speculation that Landis had tested positive spread earlier Thursday after he failed to show up for a one-day race in Denmark on Thursday. A day earlier, he missed a scheduled event in the Netherlands.

On the eve of the Tour's start, nine riders -- including pre-race favorites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso -- were ousted, implicated in a Spanish doping investigation.

The names of Ullrich and Basso turned up on a list of 56 cyclists who allegedly had contact with Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes, who's at the center of the Spanish doping probe.

Jimellow · 07-27-2006, 07:31 AM

What a moron.

I am confused on the mindset for doing this.. Did he think they didn't test? Or did he just think that his hip injury would justify doping?

maleficent · 07-27-2006, 07:33 AM

Exactly - how stupid do you have to be... You have to know that they are going to test... they always test riders and they most always catch one or two or more of them...

kutulu · 07-27-2006, 08:08 AM

It could be a false positive. That's what the B sample is for. We'll know soon enough.

trickyy · 07-27-2006, 09:18 AM

i was a little suspicious, the ride just seemed too incredible
a day earlier he could barely make it up the hill
and something just seemed wrong when he spoke in interviews about the ride
his explanations didn't measure up to what was billed as the greatest comeback ever -- especially for a sport with continuing drug allegations and a man with a deteriorated hip

but i could be wrong. i just wasn't surprised when i heard the news.

highthief · 07-27-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

It could be a false positive. That's what the B sample is for. We'll know soon enough.

Yeah, even though cycling is dirtier than bodybuilding for drug use, it could still be false. I'll wait for the B before hanging the guy.

Gatorade Frost · 07-27-2006, 09:28 AM

I would say it could be a false, but since he missed all the other stuff that's happened afterards, I'm gonna say he was probably using steroids or whatever to get a leg up.

The_Jazz · 07-27-2006, 10:05 AM

Having actually gotten a false positive as an endurance athlete, I will throw my hat in the "let's wait for sample B" ring. Mine was the result of a lab mistake, and I got an apology before they yanked my results.

I'll just throw in that a high testosterone result is odd for an endurance athlete since you usually see this kind of result on a sprinter. I'm sure that there's some sort of exception, but that was the rule that they always taught us.

highthief · 07-27-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Having actually gotten a false positive as an endurance athlete, I will throw my hat in the "let's wait for sample B" ring. Mine was the result of a lab mistake, and I got an apology before they yanked my results.

Yeah, they really shouldn't publish the A result until the B is in as that stuff can and does happen. Even if the B is OK, there will now always be a shadow over the guys head and it will cost him potentially millions of dollars in endorsements.

The_Jazz · 07-27-2006, 01:12 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong - everyone knew about it. All my teammates, my coaches, competitors, everyone. I'm pretty sure that the news made its way around the conference in about a day although it was supposed to be a "secret" process. However, I can't blame anyone at the lab or in the conference office for blowing my cover since I told all my teammates in about a day and call friends at other schools to tell them the news because it was so damn funny. Sample A tested positive for stanzalol (sp?), which is the same thing that Ben Johnson theoretically took before the 1988 Seoul Olympics. The fact that its an anabolic steroid for muscle building and is virtually useless for a guy running the 10k (which is the race that prompted the test) got me laughs for months.

Apparently the lab did a calibration run to make sure they were catching things immediately before testing my sample and the results got mixed up. That did not, however, keep my competitors from calling "Ben" or "Mr. Johnson" for the rest of the season.

SAM821 · 07-27-2006, 02:20 PM

yea I agree, after two of the biggest cycling names go down with positive drug tests, this happens. That really sucks

Toaster126 · 07-27-2006, 06:58 PM

People shouldn't even know about this until the second sample is tested. As it is, even if he is proven innocent, there will be a blemish on his name.

maleficent · 07-28-2006, 10:06 AM

I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt... but the interview on the news this morning was a non denial denial - He NEVER said he didn't take anything.. He said it could be the beer, or the jack daniels or whatever... He never said - I didn't take anything...

stevo · 07-28-2006, 11:11 AM

remember, it was the tour de france. Any amount of testosterone in men is too much for the frech.

really though, it could be the cortizone shot he got for his hip.

highthief · 07-30-2006, 10:44 AM

And now Justin Gatlin, the US 100 metre sprin champ and co-world record holder and Olympic Gold medalist, has also been busted for drug use (for the second time in Gatlin's case). Of course, he's claiming he was framed.

highthief · 08-01-2006, 04:04 AM

According to the most recent report the test in Landis system is synthetic. That would doom him, if so.

Serpent · 08-05-2006, 07:38 AM

failed the B sample today and was fired from his team and stripped of the tour win. Such a shame he doped.

Ace_O_Spades · 08-05-2006, 08:24 AM

hahahaha sucker

I'm glad they catch cheaters. The sport needs to stay clean, and there's no place for dopers who act all innocent when officials catch them.

Go live in obscurity and shame somewhere Landis, at least Armstrong wasn't stupid enough to get caught.

highthief · 08-05-2006, 10:43 AM

OK, now we can hang him!

Toaster126 · 08-05-2006, 12:05 PM

OK, _now_ we can start the "wow what a douchebag cheater" talk.

ratbastid · 08-05-2006, 12:59 PM

I'd like to see an "anything goes" category in sports. You know--a bike race running alonside the Tour de France in which doping of any type is legal.

It's going to happen anyway. May as well make it part of the game. People tend to forget that the rules of games are arbitrary (e.g. Why three strikes and you're out? Why not four?).

captobvious · 08-06-2006, 09:01 AM

If you want to see sports where the athletes aren't using steroids or other performance enhancing substances, then you'd probably have to go watch some little league baseball games. From my experience, I knew people who started with steroids in high school.

Hudson2 · 08-12-2006, 09:48 PM

It is imperative for anyone who wants to discuss Floyd Landis to get their facts from somewhere other than mainstream media. The media has done a TERRIBLE job of relaying the facts.

The first thing that troubles me is that the results of the tests were leaked by the UCI. This bothers me because on its website the UCI states,

“The World Anti-doping Code and the Anti-doping Rules of the UCI do not allow to make the name of the concerned rider public.”

Yet even though they state this, they did leak Mr. Landis’ results to the press. On July 27th UCI President Pat McQuaid gave an interview to Velonews. In his interview he states the following:

"I had a call to inform me about Landis testing positive just as I was getting on the plane to come here yesterday," McQuaid said Thursday evening. "We decided to make an announcement right away because we have been criticized in the past for not doing so - particularly in the case of an important rider.

"Also, we know that the French laboratory [where the testing was done] has a close connection with [French sports daily] L'Équipe, and we did not want this news to come through the press, because we are sure they would have leaked it.

It is mystifying to me how an organization that was created to enforce certain laws and ethics can think it is ok to turn around and break those laws. Is it ok for an organization to break its own laws simply to prevent someone else from doing it? I think the cycling public in general would not agree with this logic.

The second thing that bothers me is this lab, which clearly has its own issues with ethics and standards, is still performing tests in which the livelihood of professional athletes hangs in the balance. How can an entity be involved with upholding laws and standards to others when it refuses to follow the laws it is governed by?

Mr. McQuaid himself stated in his interview that this lab cannot be trusted to follow the regulations laid out by the anti-doping community. It seems common knowledge that this lab is in L’Equipe’s employ, yet no one in the anti-doping arena seems concerned about this. They are more concerned with railroading Mr. Landis as quickly as possible.

We also have an independent investigator that filed a 132 page report in regards to this same lab. This report is regarding the allegations this lab made against another America cyclist, Lance Armstrong. Below are two excerpts from the report.

Despite the recognition of the proper jurisdiction of the independent investigator by all individuals and organizations that were contacted, the French Ministry, the LNDD (‘Laboratoire Nationale De Dépistage Du Dopage’) and WADA, all refused to provide the investigator with the documents and full cooperation necessary to reach definite conclusions on certain issues that remain unresolved. The refusal by the LNDD, the French Ministry and WADA to provide documents and information that are necessary for the proper conduct of a complete investigation is extremely troubling and is inconsistent with the principles of the Olympic Movement.

The results reported by the LNDD that found their way into the L’Equipe article are not what they have been represented to be. They did not involve proper testing of urine samples, as explained in detail in this report. While the testing conducted may have been useful for research purposes - which remains to be determined – the failure of the underlying research to comply with any applicable standard and the deficiencies in the report render it completely irresponsible for anyone involved in doping control testing to even suggest that the analyses results that were reported constitute evidence of anything. To suggest in any way that any of the analyses results could properly be associated with a particular rider or riders, is misleading and constitutes at least gross negligence, given the complete absence of an internal or external chain of custody, proper record keeping and security with respect to the urine samples from the 1998 and the 1999 Tours de France that were tested, and the absence of any protection against samples having been spiked with r-EPO or contamination by other samples.

Statements like these cause great concern among cycling fans. How are cycling fans supposed to have any faith in the results of doping tests when the organizations responsible seem to have such an “above the law” mentality? It seems they want to make allegations against people, but the second someone challenges them they run and hide. Typically when someone refuses to cooperate in an investigation they are guilty of something. We see no such refusal from Mr. Landis.

The final issue that many cycling fans have with the current investigation of Mr. Landis is the assertion that he took testosterone to assist with his infamous Stage 17 ride. It seems that many people who know much more about doping and effects on the body than I find this theory implausible. Dr. Gary Wadler is one such expert. He currently serves on the World Anti-Doping Agency's Prohibited List and Methods Committee and has served on its Health, Medicine, and Research Committee. A direct quote from Dr. Wadler sums it up well.

Testosterone creams, pills and injections can build muscle and strength and improve recovery time after exertion when used over a period of several weeks, according to Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine.

But if Landis had been a user, earlier urine tests during the Tour would have been affected, too, Wadler said. Landis' first reported abnormal result was last Thursday, after his amazing come-from-behind performance in stage 17 of the race.

One-time use of steroids could result in an abnormal test, but it would have no effect on performance and could not account for Landis' astounding feat Thursday, "so something's missing here," Wadler said. "It just doesn't add up."

All of the above combined would easily create reasonable doubt if we were in a public court. However, it is possible if not likely that the Tour de France officials in conjunction with the flawed and apparently biased assistance of the anti-doping organizations could potentially succeed in convicting Mr. Landis. At the very least could succeed in ruining him.

A special committee shoud be convened to investigate the anti-doping agencies breaking their own laws and sacrificing the moral high ground necessary to punish other law breakers, the lab that has a poor reputation that has made unfounded accusations in the past and the validity of expert testimony like Dr. Wadler’s that says everything has not been adequately explained. This should be done for the good of athletes everywhere, for Mr. Landis and for the sake of justice and ethics in general.

1. The validity and relevance of the tests performed on Mr. Landis
2. The chain of custody of the samples
3. That the LNDD followed proper procedures in performing the tests
4. Is it physiologically possible or impossible for 1 dose of testosterone to account for Mr. Landis’ performance on Stage 17?
5. Is it possible for a person who is doping to only have 1 abnormal blood test during a doping cycle?

I do not presume that the above list covers everything, but it speaks to the effort that needs to be made to answer the questions that millions of people have. These findings should then be released to the public in a concise and clear fashion so that Mr. Landis can be vindicated or clearly found guilty. To date the press has done an abysmal job of reporting the issues around this story accurately.

Cycling is an amazing sport, but more than cycling these questions should be answered to safeguard the Olympic spirit and its commitment to honesty, fair play and excellence.

www.floydlandisfans.com

bobbob6651 · 08-17-2006, 07:43 AM

I agree with hudson on this one. Something just doesn't add up. He failed 1 test, while the tests from previous days and after 17 showed nothing? He only takes it once when it won't help him? Just doesn't make any sense. That and the lab's history with Armstrong/Landis make me question it.

Jex · 08-17-2006, 02:26 PM

He's probably just the unlucky one - the only one that got caught.

highthief · 08-17-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbob6651

I agree with hudson on this one. Something just doesn't add up. He failed 1 test, while the tests from previous days and after 17 showed nothing? He only takes it once when it won't help him? Just doesn't make any sense. That and the lab's history with Armstrong/Landis make me question it.

Most athletes that flunk a test get caught only once yet pass many other tests, often taken within days of once another. Drugs cycle through the body at various rates as do masking agents. What can be caught today won't be caught 2 or 3 days hence. And other tests don't say he didn't have elevated levels of test - cyclists are allowed 6 times the normal male amount of test in their systems before it is red flagged - merely that he didn't go over the 6 times normal male average.

Toaster126 · 08-17-2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson2

POST

Thanks for your informative post. This situation is still setting off my bullshit\I'm-not-getting-the-whole-story meter, so I hope we get conclusive answers in the future.

highthief · 08-19-2006, 02:53 PM

Now it sounds like Marion Jones has finally tested positive for doping. Given her connections to so many other busted athletes, it's not suprising - although again, apparently only the A sample has been made public via media leak.

maleficent · 08-19-2006, 02:56 PM

ithought she had postive test once before- I know her ex husband got caught.. track and field is another sport that probably has more dirty athletes than clean ones...

streak_56 · 08-19-2006, 07:20 PM

Personally.... I would like to know more about doping in the major sports... Football... Hockey.... Soccer... Baseball.... Basketball.

highthief · 08-20-2006, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

ithought she had postive test once before- I know her ex husband got caught.. track and field is another sport that probably has more dirty athletes than clean ones...

No - her ex-hubby the shot putter got done, her next romance, Tim Montgomery, never failed a test but got banned for other drug connections, her coach, and several otehr people in her entourage have all been linked, one way or another, to roids, EPO, or other performance enhancers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by streak_56

Personally.... I would like to know more about doping in the major sports... Football... Hockey.... Soccer... Baseball.... Basketball.

I think it is probably as wide spread in the major team sports (well, football for sure and then to varying degrees in the other sports you mention) but the testing in the individual sports is more rigorous and the penalties mroe severe, so you hear more about it in cycling, track, and the like.

07-27-2006, 07:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jimellow Junkie	What a moron. I am confused on the mindset for doing this.. Did he think they didn't test? Or did he just think that his hip injury would justify doping? __________________ Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

07-27-2006, 07:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Exactly - how stupid do you have to be... You have to know that they are going to test... they always test riders and they most always catch one or two or more of them... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

07-27-2006, 09:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	I would say it could be a false, but since he missed all the other stuff that's happened afterards, I'm gonna say he was probably using steroids or whatever to get a leg up. __________________ I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well." Emo Philips

07-27-2006, 10:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Having actually gotten a false positive as an endurance athlete, I will throw my hat in the "let's wait for sample B" ring. Mine was the result of a lab mistake, and I got an apology before they yanked my results. I'll just throw in that a high testosterone result is odd for an endurance athlete since you usually see this kind of result on a sprinter. I'm sure that there's some sort of exception, but that was the rule that they always taught us. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

07-27-2006, 01:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Oh, don't get me wrong - everyone knew about it. All my teammates, my coaches, competitors, everyone. I'm pretty sure that the news made its way around the conference in about a day although it was supposed to be a "secret" process. However, I can't blame anyone at the lab or in the conference office for blowing my cover since I told all my teammates in about a day and call friends at other schools to tell them the news because it was so damn funny. Sample A tested positive for stanzalol (sp?), which is the same thing that Ben Johnson theoretically took before the 1988 Seoul Olympics. The fact that its an anabolic steroid for muscle building and is virtually useless for a guy running the 10k (which is the race that prompted the test) got me laughs for months. Apparently the lab did a calibration run to make sure they were catching things immediately before testing my sample and the results got mixed up. That did not, however, keep my competitors from calling "Ben" or "Mr. Johnson" for the rest of the season. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

07-27-2006, 08:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	It could be a false positive. That's what the B sample is for. We'll know soon enough.

07-27-2006, 09:18 AM	#5 (permalink)
trickyy ►	i was a little suspicious, the ride just seemed too incredible a day earlier he could barely make it up the hill and something just seemed wrong when he spoke in interviews about the ride his explanations didn't measure up to what was billed as the greatest comeback ever -- especially for a sport with continuing drug allegations and a man with a deteriorated hip but i could be wrong. i just wasn't surprised when i heard the news.

07-27-2006, 02:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
SAM821 Surviving Hurricanes Location: Miami, Florida	yea I agree, after two of the biggest cycling names go down with positive drug tests, this happens. That really sucks

07-27-2006, 06:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
Toaster126 Extreme moderation Location: Kansas City, yo.	People shouldn't even know about this until the second sample is tested. As it is, even if he is proven innocent, there will be a blemish on his name. __________________ "The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand) "The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

07-28-2006, 10:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt... but the interview on the news this morning was a non denial denial - He NEVER said he didn't take anything.. He said it could be the beer, or the jack daniels or whatever... He never said - I didn't take anything... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

07-28-2006, 11:11 AM	#14 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	remember, it was the tour de france. Any amount of testosterone in men is too much for the frech. really though, it could be the cortizone shot he got for his hip. __________________ "If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser

07-30-2006, 10:44 AM	#15 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	And now Justin Gatlin, the US 100 metre sprin champ and co-world record holder and Olympic Gold medalist, has also been busted for drug use (for the second time in Gatlin's case). Of course, he's claiming he was framed. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

08-01-2006, 04:04 AM	#16 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	According to the most recent report the test in Landis system is synthetic. That would doom him, if so. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

08-05-2006, 07:38 AM	#17 (permalink)
Serpent Insane Location: florida	failed the B sample today and was fired from his team and stripped of the tour win. Such a shame he doped.

08-05-2006, 08:24 AM	#18 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	hahahaha sucker I'm glad they catch cheaters. The sport needs to stay clean, and there's no place for dopers who act all innocent when officials catch them. Go live in obscurity and shame somewhere Landis, at least Armstrong wasn't stupid enough to get caught. __________________ Feh.

08-05-2006, 10:43 AM	#19 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	OK, now we can hang him! __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

08-05-2006, 12:05 PM	#20 (permalink)
Toaster126 Extreme moderation Location: Kansas City, yo.	OK, _now_ we can start the "wow what a douchebag cheater" talk. __________________ "The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand) "The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

08-05-2006, 12:59 PM	#21 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I'd like to see an "anything goes" category in sports. You know--a bike race running alonside the Tour de France in which doping of any type is legal. It's going to happen anyway. May as well make it part of the game. People tend to forget that the rules of games are arbitrary (e.g. Why three strikes and you're out? Why not four?).

08-06-2006, 09:01 AM	#22 (permalink)
captobvious Insane Location: Somewhere	If you want to see sports where the athletes aren't using steroids or other performance enhancing substances, then you'd probably have to go watch some little league baseball games. From my experience, I knew people who started with steroids in high school.

08-12-2006, 09:48 PM	#23 (permalink)
Hudson2 Upright	It is imperative for anyone who wants to discuss Floyd Landis to get their facts from somewhere other than mainstream media. The media has done a TERRIBLE job of relaying the facts. The first thing that troubles me is that the results of the tests were leaked by the UCI. This bothers me because on its website the UCI states, “The World Anti-doping Code and the Anti-doping Rules of the UCI do not allow to make the name of the concerned rider public.” Yet even though they state this, they did leak Mr. Landis’ results to the press. On July 27th UCI President Pat McQuaid gave an interview to Velonews. In his interview he states the following: "I had a call to inform me about Landis testing positive just as I was getting on the plane to come here yesterday," McQuaid said Thursday evening. "We decided to make an announcement right away because we have been criticized in the past for not doing so - particularly in the case of an important rider. "Also, we know that the French laboratory [where the testing was done] has a close connection with [French sports daily] L'Équipe, and we did not want this news to come through the press, because we are sure they would have leaked it. It is mystifying to me how an organization that was created to enforce certain laws and ethics can think it is ok to turn around and break those laws. Is it ok for an organization to break its own laws simply to prevent someone else from doing it? I think the cycling public in general would not agree with this logic. The second thing that bothers me is this lab, which clearly has its own issues with ethics and standards, is still performing tests in which the livelihood of professional athletes hangs in the balance. How can an entity be involved with upholding laws and standards to others when it refuses to follow the laws it is governed by? Mr. McQuaid himself stated in his interview that this lab cannot be trusted to follow the regulations laid out by the anti-doping community. It seems common knowledge that this lab is in L’Equipe’s employ, yet no one in the anti-doping arena seems concerned about this. They are more concerned with railroading Mr. Landis as quickly as possible. We also have an independent investigator that filed a 132 page report in regards to this same lab. This report is regarding the allegations this lab made against another America cyclist, Lance Armstrong. Below are two excerpts from the report. Despite the recognition of the proper jurisdiction of the independent investigator by all individuals and organizations that were contacted, the French Ministry, the LNDD (‘Laboratoire Nationale De Dépistage Du Dopage’) and WADA, all refused to provide the investigator with the documents and full cooperation necessary to reach definite conclusions on certain issues that remain unresolved. The refusal by the LNDD, the French Ministry and WADA to provide documents and information that are necessary for the proper conduct of a complete investigation is extremely troubling and is inconsistent with the principles of the Olympic Movement. The results reported by the LNDD that found their way into the L’Equipe article are not what they have been represented to be. They did not involve proper testing of urine samples, as explained in detail in this report. While the testing conducted may have been useful for research purposes - which remains to be determined – the failure of the underlying research to comply with any applicable standard and the deficiencies in the report render it completely irresponsible for anyone involved in doping control testing to even suggest that the analyses results that were reported constitute evidence of anything. To suggest in any way that any of the analyses results could properly be associated with a particular rider or riders, is misleading and constitutes at least gross negligence, given the complete absence of an internal or external chain of custody, proper record keeping and security with respect to the urine samples from the 1998 and the 1999 Tours de France that were tested, and the absence of any protection against samples having been spiked with r-EPO or contamination by other samples. Statements like these cause great concern among cycling fans. How are cycling fans supposed to have any faith in the results of doping tests when the organizations responsible seem to have such an “above the law” mentality? It seems they want to make allegations against people, but the second someone challenges them they run and hide. Typically when someone refuses to cooperate in an investigation they are guilty of something. We see no such refusal from Mr. Landis. The final issue that many cycling fans have with the current investigation of Mr. Landis is the assertion that he took testosterone to assist with his infamous Stage 17 ride. It seems that many people who know much more about doping and effects on the body than I find this theory implausible. Dr. Gary Wadler is one such expert. He currently serves on the World Anti-Doping Agency's Prohibited List and Methods Committee and has served on its Health, Medicine, and Research Committee. A direct quote from Dr. Wadler sums it up well. Testosterone creams, pills and injections can build muscle and strength and improve recovery time after exertion when used over a period of several weeks, according to Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine. But if Landis had been a user, earlier urine tests during the Tour would have been affected, too, Wadler said. Landis' first reported abnormal result was last Thursday, after his amazing come-from-behind performance in stage 17 of the race. One-time use of steroids could result in an abnormal test, but it would have no effect on performance and could not account for Landis' astounding feat Thursday, "so something's missing here," Wadler said. "It just doesn't add up." All of the above combined would easily create reasonable doubt if we were in a public court. However, it is possible if not likely that the Tour de France officials in conjunction with the flawed and apparently biased assistance of the anti-doping organizations could potentially succeed in convicting Mr. Landis. At the very least could succeed in ruining him. A special committee shoud be convened to investigate the anti-doping agencies breaking their own laws and sacrificing the moral high ground necessary to punish other law breakers, the lab that has a poor reputation that has made unfounded accusations in the past and the validity of expert testimony like Dr. Wadler’s that says everything has not been adequately explained. This should be done for the good of athletes everywhere, for Mr. Landis and for the sake of justice and ethics in general. 1. The validity and relevance of the tests performed on Mr. Landis 2. The chain of custody of the samples 3. That the LNDD followed proper procedures in performing the tests 4. Is it physiologically possible or impossible for 1 dose of testosterone to account for Mr. Landis’ performance on Stage 17? 5. Is it possible for a person who is doping to only have 1 abnormal blood test during a doping cycle? I do not presume that the above list covers everything, but it speaks to the effort that needs to be made to answer the questions that millions of people have. These findings should then be released to the public in a concise and clear fashion so that Mr. Landis can be vindicated or clearly found guilty. To date the press has done an abysmal job of reporting the issues around this story accurately. Cycling is an amazing sport, but more than cycling these questions should be answered to safeguard the Olympic spirit and its commitment to honesty, fair play and excellence. www.floydlandisfans.com

08-17-2006, 07:43 AM	#24 (permalink)
bobbob6651 Upright	I agree with hudson on this one. Something just doesn't add up. He failed 1 test, while the tests from previous days and after 17 showed nothing? He only takes it once when it won't help him? Just doesn't make any sense. That and the lab's history with Armstrong/Landis make me question it.

08-17-2006, 02:26 PM	#25 (permalink)
Jex Upright	He's probably just the unlucky one - the only one that got caught.

08-19-2006, 02:53 PM	#28 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Now it sounds like Marion Jones has finally tested positive for doping. Given her connections to so many other busted athletes, it's not suprising - although again, apparently only the A sample has been made public via media leak. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

08-19-2006, 02:56 PM	#29 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	ithought she had postive test once before- I know her ex husband got caught.. track and field is another sport that probably has more dirty athletes than clean ones... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-19-2006, 07:20 PM	#30 (permalink)
streak_56 who ever said streaking was a bad thing? Location: Calgary	Personally.... I would like to know more about doping in the major sports... Football... Hockey.... Soccer... Baseball.... Basketball.