soma

Over new years I went to a party with this girl. We were semi officially on a date. We sat around, drank, but spent most of the night cuddling on the couch together. Whenever she talked to me, her face would always be very close to mine. But nothing happened beyond cuddling (but that's more than I've ever gotten).

So anyway, she told me she had a good time, I told here I had a good time and that's been it. We've talked some since, and I really want to initiate a second date. I'm pretty attracted to this girl, but am afraid I'm just her friend.

Some things that make me think I have a chance: she's complimented me on my looks on several occasions. Also she was the one that asked me to be her date to this party. Last night she sent me a "cute" picture of herself and some pictures of us together on new years. A poke and a random message on facebook as well. She said she was bored.

I'm just really bad at reading women. Also, my desperate geek boy side might just be getting the best of me.

I don't want to make an awkward move on her when there really isn't anything going on, but I don't want to mess things up if this really is an opportunity. Oh TFPers, where do I stand with this girl? Do I have a chance or am I just another cuddle bitch.

__________________
Having Girl Problems?

Jesseboy

Well, I'm no expert, and I have no idea what a cuddle bitch is, but I'd suggest you ask her out. It seems she has given you hints towards doing so - and what's the worst that could happen? One little "No" may seem like a big deal at this point, but a year from now you probably will look back and laugh...

radioguy

JUST DO IT....AND HURRY! you don't want to fall into the "friend" stage and ruin any possibility of being with her.

Hat

Kiss her you bone head.

If you don't do it soon you'll be relegated to the friends zone. If you do kiss her or ask her out/tell her how you feel, you'll either precipitate a relationship (extremely likely from what you've said above imo) or be relegated to the friends zone (a possibility, but that means she's fucking with you - better to find this out sooner rather than later).

But what would I know, heh.

joemc91

Next time you're cuddling on the couch together and you're talking with your faces close together. When there's a pause in the conversation, look straight into her eyes for a little bit without talking. It'll feel like a few minutes. Then just kiss her. It sounds like she really likes you, I hope. Good luck!

MEAD

Kissing her will be too hard if you are still too much unsure of her feelings for you. But I can gladly say that things sound very good from all you've posted here. I would suggest that next time you get to spend some time alone with her plan on kissing her, you might not find the right time that time, but every time you see her I think finding a moment to kiss her should be foremost on your mind. From what you say, it seems like you two end up putting yourself into situations where you'd be likely to kiss, so hopefully you will be bale to do it soon. Come back to us with the news.

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

Mantus

Go for it. Yo gota find out sooner NOT later. The clock is against you, if you don't make a move soon she will think you are a pussy and you WILL become a cuddle bitch.

Kiss her!

Val_1

Dating is nothing but a series of awkward moves. Don't worry about it, just do it. As long as you stay respectful, nothing bad will happen.

__________________

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.

-Frank Sinatra

nitelyfe

Make a move. If she asked you out, then she is definitely interested. When she puts her face close to yours when you talk, then she is putting herself into a position where you could easily make a move. Remember the movie "Hitch", where Will Smith is explaining "the kiss" and how the man moves in 60% of the way? It sounds like she is moving herself into range.

She is expecting you to initiate the action. The man is expected to have the balls to initiate any action. The next time the two of you talk, hopefully in private, lean in and plant a simple kiss on her lips. Keep the tongue tucked for now. If she asks why you did that, just be natural, smile and tell that you really like her. If she smiles, kiss her again. If not, well, you might have to accept being a 'friend'.

Good luck!

jusolson00

cuddle bitch - Def.. --> Someone who is physically attached to another via the hug...

You know the type, those two people at the party who are always one big mass of tangled arms and legs.... for the WHOLE time...

xepherys

not to sound overly typical but... the worst that can happen is that she says "no". After which you're in no worse a position than you are now.

kangaeru

Dude....

when is the last time you have seen this many people agreeing about something on TFP?

Everyone of of those signs there points to that she is just an old fashion girl, who wants it but will not initiate it.

You're a man, it's your job to cross that line in this case, you're that first before a nerd or a geek or anything else you think you are.

So yeah, kiss her.

__________________
Dont be afraid to change who you are for what you could become

Johnny Pyro

Sounds like she likes you. Kiss her. If she backs away and it gets akward, fuck it. Get use to akward moments because plenty are more to come in life. Believe me! You don't want the regret of, "what if?" YOU CAN DO IT!

__________________
"From delusion lead me to truth, from darkness lead me to light, from death lead me to eternal life. - Sheriff John Wydell

World's King

I don't know if you saw it but if ou look at the top of Tilted Sexuality there is thread that I wrote about all this...


Please read it. It will help you out.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Slippery Slope

You HAVE to go for it! Otherwise, later in life, you'll look back
and realize what a chance you missed. ...Trust me .........

!

Fett56

Sounds to me like she is into you. Go for it man. Every indicator is saying she is giving you hints.

Toaster126

Hahaha, we have consensus. Do it. Yesterday.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

soma

Dear oh wise TFP,

You were right. Thanks.

We went out on a date the other night. It was good, but I was reserved as hell! I hate it. I couldn't put my arm around her, I didn't even hold hands or initiate anything. I was damn disappointed in myself and I'm sure she was too. Ergh. How do I man up and quit acting like a god damn 12 year old.

I know how important being comfortable with touch is, but ... damn. Any tips on initiating this sort of thing. I have soooo much hesitation but I can't quite figure out what's holding me back. I think part of it is that I don't know what is appropriate when. Like, if we're just walking around together, hold hands, or arm around the shoulder. I need help. Last night by the way was the first real date in my life. I'm 20. I need some serious help.

__________________
Having Girl Problems?

cmc

Ok - here's my share; a few years ago, a beautiful girl I worked in the same office with, and who at times seemed very friendly & playful w/ me, and at other times, somewhat distant, attended an office party at a local joint. On the way home, the whole group ( around 12+) jumped into different cars. I ended up with Miss Love & her supervisor, who requested to be dropped off first. No problem, and now I can see that Miss Love and I have a private ride back to her car at the office. I'm sitting in the car, with the window rolled down, and she comes over, quiet & confidently and says --and I will NEVER Forget this ''' I want to kiss you ''' ----- oh my God, I don't think I breathed for like 4 mins. I was stunned, flabergasted and everything else you can think of. It just hung out there like a dive frozen in mid air. It took me 2 hours to digest it. It was so brave, exciting, intimate, risky, sexy, endearing and everything that can't be put into mere words. The point is, stating what you want, with confidence is sooooo attractive. It doesn't demand a response, at least not immediately. I did kiss her, but not for 6 more months, while my divorce was finalized. She was the best kisser way before our lips met. I haven't seen her for over 10 years now, but the feelings I have as a result of her willingness to simply tell me what she wanted Live right here and right now. Moral of the story, tell her what you want. We all get to speak, we all get to decide, and we all get to be excited whenever another attractive individual tells us what they want to do, be and have with us ! Good luck !

Martian

soma,

The answer is one you're going to hate.

Just balls up and do it. There are no tricks or magic answers. You're interested, so you make a move. The worst that'll happen is she'll reject you. It sounds bad, but once you've been through it you realize it's not that big a deal.

Figure it this way; if you make a move and get turned down at least you'll know where you stand. And if it works out, then you'll be very glad you did. Either one is better than sitting around wringing your hands.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Impetuous1

The fact that she's going out on a date with you gives you some liberties. For example, if you feel the urge to hold her hand, do it. If you want to kiss, her do it. She's going out with you because she likes you. Just don't get carried too far. Start out slow at first. If you're unsure, ask. First, start off by holding her hands, if she moves in closer to you, put your arm around her. And if she snuggles up against you, kiss her sans tongue first. If her breathing changes during the kiss or she slams herself against you, then you can give her your tongue. But stop as soon as she pulls away. After that, I think you can take it from there. Oh, and I'm a female and somewhat old fashioned too. At least at first. And what I described, is some of my better experiences.

Also, don't be afraid to be embarassed or unsure of yourself in front of her. Some women think that a man being thrown off balance by our presence is exhilarating. Plus, I'm sure if she feels the same that she's probably having some of those feelings herself.

MikeSty

Just one thing - Your name SOMA makes me laugh. Very mildly ironic.

joemc91

Dude, go on a date where you HAVE to touch her. Try something like dancing, skating (as long as she's not too good), maybe an art museum (you have to get close to some exhibits). Then you have an excuse to touch her.

I did what you did on my first dates, that is be reserved, no touching, and I totally missed out. Don't do the same thing.

soma

Alright. Hopefully this will make me own up to my respnosibilities and kiss her. Ok TFP. I PROMISE I will kiss her the next time we go out. No matter how awkward it might be, IT WILL HAPPEN.

Also, can I hear some comments on something. I know for a fact that she likes me (her sister told me) but I can feel her interest is waning. When I didn't know she liked me, I playfully teased her in a flirty sort of way. A lot. it was easy because I didn't think I had a chance with her. I felt I had nothing to lose. But now that I know she likes me and I like her, I don't want to mess things up, so the flirting has stopped. I feel like I should pick this up again because it really lifts my confidence around her. Ergh. Of course you should be flirty on dates, right?

__________________
Having Girl Problems?

Poppinjay

Oh. My. God.

Yes, flirt with her, make her feel attractive. Kiss her. Hold her hand. Otherwise, the interest will disappear. Do it, now.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

joemc91

Definitely keep flirting with her. It attracted her in the first place, why wouldn't it keep her attracted?

MSD

Other than the fact that I'm two years older than you, you sound like me. I'me blown at least three clear attempts by friends trying to get together with me because I was too chickenshit to make a move. Stop acting like me before I hunt you down and smack the shit out of you for doing the same stupid shit I do. You're never going to get out of the plane if you're sitting there worriying that your parachute won't open.

Now if I can just figure out how to practice what I preach, I'll be set.

keyshawn

That pretty much was me too, a couple months ago. I'm still friends with her, but I think I already had my time to make the move and I didn't, so I'm just in the friend zone, and will probably end up staying that way, but ah well, I just have to move on to another girl.....

catcha back on the flipside,
will.

__________________
currently reading:

currently playing :

Martian

First of all soma, allow me to give you credit for coming here for help. You are in dire need, clearly.

Her interest isn't waning, she's just not sure anymore. Turn the tables around. Imagine she was all flirty with you, making suggestive comments and doing things that make you think you're in, then without warning she stops all of that. Can you say mixed signals? She doesn't know what the hell you want, because where you were confident and outgoing before you've become all shy and withdrawn.

I don't understand why it's harder to flirt with her. You know she's interested. Your advances are welcome, her sister has given you testimony to the fact. Shouldn't that make it easier? I mean, if you know for a fact that she wants to strip you naked and ride you like a pony, I'd think it would be easier to obliquely suggest the same.

Don't make any promises and quit dicking around. Nike, my man. Just do it.

keyshawn - For what it's worth, I don't believe in all that 'friends zone' bullshit. The ladder theory is a misogynistic pile of shit devised by a man who needed a way to explain why he can't get any dates, when the reality is that the ladder theory does that for itself. It proves that he's an asshole who sees women more as caricatures than people with thoughts and feelings and unique personalities. As long as she's still single, you have a chance and it'll be better to make a move and know where you stand than to sit around kicking yourself in the ass. Worst case scenario, if she's not interested, I can almost guarantee it won't be awkward unless you make it awkward. Some of my best friends are either exes or girls that I showed an interest in. Once I knew where I stood I could put the crush behind me and move on with my life, allowing me to keep people whose companionship I valued as friends.

EDIT - And if you make a move, the situation will be awkward. Whether she decides she likes you or not, whether it all works out or she ends up kneeing you in the groin, it's going to be a bit uncomfortable. It always is. The so-called 'smooth operators' realize this, accept it and don't let it get in the way. Most of it is in your head anyway.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

keyshawn

I really like to believe that those crackpot theories aren't valid, and try to learn from actual experience [which, in my limited experience so far, seems to work what's best, and that's what my friends at school tell me].
We need to remember to overcome the fear and actually do it.

thanks for the advice,
keyshawn

<i> Don't fear the life; live the fear </i>

__________________
currently reading:

currently playing :

soma

Update:

First of all, thank you to everyone. So, I have good news and bad news. I'll start with the bad. Yesterday we hung out and I didn't kiss her. This was because we were hanging out with her family members the entire time and if I took any of the semi opportunities to kiss her, it would have been pretty forced (weak, I know. Please read the good news though).

The good news is that I started flirting with her again, which has made a difference. A HUGE difference. By the end of the day, the touch barrier that existed between us was completely gone. It was incredible. The flirting also boosted my confidence enough for me to know that kissing her will not be a difficult thing. It is now only a matter of time.

Question:

We watched a movie together and there was hand holding and some touching. No boobie touching or anything like that, but there was touching. I could feel electricity running through us. It was amazing, but I imagine it could be more amazing. Oh great TFP, answer me this. How can I touch a girl to drive her wild without getting too extreme (or is that the only way)?

__________________
Having Girl Problems?

cyrnel

You are going to love looking back on this. It'll be one of those priceless "I can't believe I was so stupid" things. All the better if she's there to laugh with you.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Martian

cyrnel's right, you (probably both of you) will look back on this and laugh.

You want a touch to drive her wild, one that's reasonably chaste? When you're sitting next to her, hold her hand in yours with the palm up, so that your fingers are on the back of her hand and your thumb is on the palm (this will cause her to rotate her forearm). Now take your index and middle finger on the other hand and very slowly, very gently, run them along the inside of her elbow and forearm. Think feather touch here. The inside of the elbow is a very sensitive spot; she'll swear her nerves are on fire.

Also, it's been my experience that a great many girls like guys to play with their hair. If she has long hair this goes double.

Or there's always the other way to touch her that will drive her wild. Y'know, kiss her...

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Poppinjay

Kiss her!

Don't make me come down there.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Dragonknight

soma everyone is SOO behind you on this they are encouragingly going to beat you up if you don't make your move. Good luck, I still remember the butterflies in the stomach feeling when your trying to make that first big move with a girl you like. As far as making her go wild, light touches, inside the arm, the palm of her hand, or the back of her neck. Good luck.

__________________
Freedom is NOT Free.

tecoyah

Allow me to field this one:

One of the most sensative, non errogenous area of many a female is the neck and scalp.....simply running fingers (nails) thru her hair may have the desired effect. The back and sides of the neck are very sensative to feather lite touch, and can easily raise goosebumps on flesh, as is the area behind the ear. The Feather touch is amazingly powerful to a woman even slightly aroused, so much so that merely brushing the arms....let alone the fingers, can lead to some extremely interesting results. But, above all.....be confident in your touch, No Woman wants to be loved by a fumbling hand.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Sultana

Tecoyah speaks the Truth...

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

DonovanDuVal

Urgh, first contact, now that is something that went horribly for me all those years ago.

I have to agree with Tecoya, confident touching is the key. Gentle, but natural.

Perhaps rather than asking "do you mind if I kiss you?" when she is in your arms you could try and sound a little more confident. While looking her in the eye and after a few seconds silence try saying in a gentle whisper "I am going to have to kiss you, you know that don’t you?" Then if she's still in your arms, slowly move in for the kiss.

Good luck, like everyone here I am going to be checking back to see how it went. We’re all rooting for you.

__________________
"I've been Donovan DuVal. Take care of yourselves, and each other."

soma

Update:

It finally happened.

After going out to eat, we went back to her place to watch some movies. There we were, lying down on the couch together. I was able to lock eye contact with her a few times. While holding eye contact with her on one of these occassions, I just went in and did it. It was good, but there was definitely some awkwardness afterwards. Fortunately, it was more of a funny awkwardness than an uncomfortable awkwardness. She had a smile on her face.

Question:

Ok. Something that has started to bother me is that I get a ton of satisfaction when I touch her body, but I don't think she gets that same satisfaction when she touches mine. I'm not ugly, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't have the most impressive body ever. No six pack, no rippling biceps, no rock hard pecks, no nothing. I'm just a skinny guy with a good layer of flab on me. I really want to make the time we spend enjoyable for her too.

Also, she doesn't seem to enjoy my touching her as much as I enjoy her touching me. I tried that inner elbow feather touch thing and she didn't respond too well to it. She also put my hand on her breast several times, but she didn't seem to enjoy it much. Whenever I touched her, it was always very gentle and natural, but ... I don't know. She wouldn't do anything like close her eyes and smile in satisfaction while being touched. Last night, we'd touch each other under a blanket and, for instance, while massaging one of her breasts, she would talk to other people in the room as if nothing was happening. (Please don't tell me that's a bad sign. )

Is kissing what's going to make the difference here? If not, what should I try? Also, please don't get me wrong. I'm in 100% bliss here, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm complaining. I just want her to have a better time.

__________________
Having Girl Problems?

Poppinjay

I think you're reading entirely too much into it. She put your hand on her breast, she wouldn't do that if she didn't like it.

Relax. This is a rare time when it's okay to shut off your brain and let your mini-soma do the thinking.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet