Ace_O_Spades

Maybe this should be in philosophy... because it's the philosophy of sex... but whatever.

My question:

Can you be driven into the arms of another man/woman because of a neglectful boyfriend/girlfriend? Or is the onus of responsibility fully on you, because it was your choice to cheat instead of ending the relationship?

I have a friend who is guilt ridden because his girlfriend cheated on him multiple times, then convinced him it was his fault because he neglected her.

Thanks!

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Feh.

Willravel

Personally? Absolutely not. It is against my nature to be unfaithful. Can I understand how others cheat? To some degree, yes. Of course, I can also understand to a point how people kill. Just because I understand something doesn't make it right.

Edit: Infadelity cannot be excused with accusations of neglect. She was wrong, and she aparently isn't remorseful.

Siege

Bullshit, she cheated because she wanted to and just used him as an excuse. If she was feeling so neglected, she could've said something or simply broken up with him.

I was neglected by 1 of my exs. I didn't cheat on her. We simply broke up

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This part just makes my posts easier to find

maleficent

People who cheat, no matter what their reasons are for cheating, are 100 percent to blame.

A person's reasons for cheating could be varied as the daily stressors of life (I think that was the excuse a friend of mine used), feeling neglected, feeling undesirable... whatever... But instead of talking about whatever the problem is with the person is they are cheating on.. the take the easy way out and cheat.

Cheating with justification in one's head is still cheating... and it's solely on the person who did the cheating..

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eMOTIONal20

I could definitely use the excuse that I was driven to cheat on my last boyfriend because he turned neglectful and uncaring and constantly lied and blah blah blah... but I do believe it was my responsibility to end the relationship when it turned this way instead of cheating on him. Even the mere urge to do things with other people should've been a sign that I probably didn't want the relationship anymore anyway.

I've definitely learned form what I've done in the past. I now believe there is absolutely NO excuse for cheating on your significant other. No one "drove" me or "forced" me to cheat, I made the choice -- I have no right to blame another person for that choice.

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Mantus

I would love hear an argument for that case She must have pulled one hell of a mindfuck on him.

My case is this:
One is driven to a point where one is forced to make a choice. The morality of that choice is clear. No matter what may push this girl to her possition, when she makes that choice, she is aware of breaking a social code.

Though I would hazard a guess that solving this argument wont help your friend. The girl probably critisized and censured this poor guy in every way possible so he's lost his self-esteem and worth.

I hate when this kind of shit happens, it's really tough on everyone.

[edited for really poor gramar]

Jinn

Easy question for me to answer..


Can you be "driven" to no longer desire your partner? Certainly, that's the nature of relationships.

Can you be "driven" to cheat? Certainly not, that's a personal choice and a personal reaction to a situation. Their behavior doesn't determine whether you follow the moral high ground and end it, or be a lying cheater. Only you do.

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Toaster126

Wow. That's some serious mind manipulation there.

Saying something like that is just an excuse for her to absolve herself of the guilt she felt. She needs to take ownership of her own feelings and not blame others for her feelings. If she was unhappy, fix the problem or walk away. It's simple. You don't have to cheat.

Cheating is despicable.

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Rodney

Ace, she's trying to have it both ways. If the relationship sucks, she should leave; but she doesn't want to for some reason. So she cheats _and_ stays in the relationship, and justifies it because he wasn't treating her right. And _still_ stays in the relationship.

A real person addresses the problem with his/her partner, if there is one, or just leaves. They don't use a problem as an excuse to misbehave, or _make up_ a problem so they have an excuse to indulge themselves. Tell your friend to drop her like a red-hot turd.

Charlatan

No one can be driven to cheat. That responsibility lies solely with the cheater.

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Carno

Wow, your buddy really needs to drop this chick. She sounds like a real wack job.

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Willravel

Your buddy should show his gf this thread. Maybe she'd change her tune.

Elphaba

My husband had an affair because he was getting more attention elsewhere. Many years later, I did the same thing for the same reason.

Cheating is cheating, always... and there is no excuse for it.

(Please note that I don't include couples that are in an open relationship and do not deceive their partners)

Psycho Dad

That "you drove me to it" excuse is simply a crutch. Those that lean on it do so at the expense of a very hurt partner.

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ratbastid

Thanks. My personal answer is, no, by definition, the parameters of my relationship make "cheating" an extraordinarily unlikely thing, and it certainly couldn't happen because of a lack of attention from my partner. For me to "cheat", I'd have to consciously and deliberately choose to deceive and hurt her.

Your buddy's girlfriend's excuse is a cop-out. I'm not saying there's nothing for him to be responsible for, but she's lying to him and herself to say her cheating was his fault.

sailor

Cheating is a choice. You can't be forced to make that choice. Your partner can drive you away and make you no longer desire them or want to be with them, but cheating is still cheating, and it's still a choice. So no, you can't be "driven" to cheat.

That girl is pulling a fast one on your buddy. He needs to drop her, fast...

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tec-9-7

Ahahahahahaha! The infamous "see-what-you-made-me-do" ploy! See JinnKai's response for my own view...

Shadefire

About 5 1/2 yrs ago I was dating a guy. Going into it I told him that I was not looking for a long term relationship, I was basically looking for regular sex. I told him this straight up. After about 4 months, he told me that he loved me, and I started to hardcore flirt with other guys when he wasn't around. That is when I realized that I should break up with him. I didn't cheat on him, I broke up with him before I would have and hurt him even more. I figured that as soon as he said that he loved me, I should break it off before he got any more attached to me, since I was never gonna love him in return.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you are unhappy in a relationship, don't cheat, just break up with them. It saves a lot of heartache in the end.

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dlish

cheating is about convincing yourself that its 'alright'. everyone knows its not ok to cheat, but its even worse when you convince your partner that he screwed up and is to blame.. wtf?

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Suave

It takes two to tango.

Confucious say: spouse who cheat playing in rigged game.

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absorbentishe

Cheating is cheating no matter what. The choice lies with the person who does the cheating, but you can look at what caused the person to cheat. Perhaps lack of attention, no desire, etc.

I've never cheated, but was close, and choose not to. After our 4th was born, I had been working 2 jobs (well for at least 4 years of working 2 jobs). But even before that, my wife had shown little to no attention to me, even though I was working 65 - 70 hrs a week. I thought looking for some sex was the answer, no strings attached sex. My wife wouldn't have ever known if I did, working the long hrs I did, she wouldn't have even guessed. She didn't appreciate what I was doing, nor even care that I wanted to make love with her, so I thought looking for casual sex was the answer. But in reality, it wasn't. Getting closer with my wife, and telling her who I was feeling was the answer, and she understood. I have never mentioned that I thought about it.

So in a nut shell, it's not the partner that causes you to cheat, it's the cheater that makes the decision to do it.

Impetuous1

I agree with all the above. Cheating is not something that can be blamed on another person. It is a personal response and is the sole responsibility of the person who made that decision. Relationships can only work when you are able to talk things out instead of running into the arms of another person. It is a cycle that will just end up repeating itself in the life of the cheater. Then, pretty soon, they're all alone in a crappy apartment with child support payments and no one who loves them anymore. I know someone like this.

Carno

Only weak people can be driven to anything.

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Suave

So you're saying that every single person on the planet is weak.

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"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Carno

Everyone makes their own decisions.

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rlynnm

Wrongful doing is simply that. Cheating, which I would assume to fall under this category shouldn't be given any special status, unless one's life depended on it. Somehow, I find that highly doubtful. Most of what we do functions out of having choices. Even if the relationship you are currently involved proves to be fruitless, you still have the option to leave. The choices and potential end results may not be favorable but granted, they are still choices.

Can someone FEEL driven to cheat, sure. Any unhappy relationship inevitably leads to a desire to fulfill what's missing. Can someone BE driven to cheat? The answer is no. (unless you have a gun to your head, at that point, I think you've got bigger problems than just this moral dilemma). You have options, it is your right and duty to exercise them as "morally correct" as possible.

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Suave

People like to think that, yes. It's also the most pragmatic way of considering decisions on a small scale, but really only a teeny tiny part of what's actually happening.

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"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

tenchi069

You can NOT be driven to cheat. You can only be driven to no longer care for your SO. If that is the case, the cheater is the cowards way out, and the person with a shred of dignity, bravery, and balls, just comes right out and breaks up with the person.

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doncalypso

True that... true that.

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Seeker

If you've been neglected and mistreated for a long period of time there is no quicker way to find your self esteem again than having a fling or cheating.

Get yourself absorbed into a 'false' situation of warm and fuzzy, but don't for one minute think that it's your ticket to freedom and righteousness... at some stage you'll have to face yourself and the others involved.

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gh0ti

I was in a long term relationship for 5 years in college. We would have our good times, we would have our bad times. We broke up twice for like 3 days at a time the whole time we were together. Both times it was over some BS, and both times it was her breaking up with me and getting right back together with me.

We finally broke it off for good and I found out a long time later that the two times we broke up, she went and fucked my roommate. I guess her justification for it was that we were broken up at the time, do I still consider her a dirty whore for it, yes.

I always thought people were nuts when they said once a cheater, always a cheater. People can change, blah blah blah… I knew about my girlfriends past (she had cheated on every one of her boyfriends and one point or another) and I still trusted her.

Tell your friend to get out now.. don’t pass go, don’t collect $200. The pain he is going though now is just going to happen again. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

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analog

Nope. Not at all. If it got to that point, then you either face your SO and break it off, or face them with your issues of neglect.

With my very first girlfriend, I had such a chance. I was horribly mentally abused by this girl, neglected, and made to feel like shit all the time. Her best friend, who was way hotter than her, was all over me- not touching me, but flirting mercilessly. It was bad. She knew my weakness (boobs) and exploited them. Thinking back on the scene she made, I still get goosebumps- that's how good she was, and how bad it was for me. But, despite that, and my feelings of (my SO) "needs to be taught a lesson", I still could not bring myself to cheat.

On that note, if I could have called my SO on the phone and broken up with her right then and there, I could have railed her hot friend like there was no tomorrow. Since I was still officially tied, i couldn't do it.

Side note: My mind also briefly wandered over into "I don't have to let her know we're broken up the moment I decide it... as long as I know the tie is cut, that's enough." Since this seemed specious at best, I still couldn't do it. Damn my morals.

yabobo

When you've been in a relationship as long as I have, 23 years.
It is on you if you cheat. You love your partner very much but,........
One of you still wants sex 5 times a day and the other partner wants it once a year. Got news for you. You won't be happy with the the compromise
after talking to your partner and they promise to love you twice a year.

Sooo you stray then hate yourself but you keep exploring the forbidin.
You clean up nicely and live your double life.

Or, Remember your vows and take them seriously (for better or worse)
And live depressed!
Love and sex can become separate over time and not be the most important issue.

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little_tippler

like most people are saying, cheating is inexcusable. But it is understandable. People are weak...break up before it happens, if you want to shag someone else then you shouldn't be in that relationship! (Unless you have an open relationship).

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We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

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rlynnm

That's the way to put it!

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The hardest thing is to be honest with yourself, especially if that means completely redefining the world you've come to know.

Don't look too hard, I'm right in front of you.

Reese

Technically, I disagree with every reply to this thread but really I'm just saying the same thing everyone else said.

People can be driven to doing anything, even cheating. She claims she felt neglected in the relationship and was driven to do something.. She was presented with choices like talking to him and trying to fix things, break up with him, and cheating. he obviouslly didn't choose the best option, multiple times. She's totally to blame, but it doesnt change the fact she was driven to making a choice.

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Seeker

Often though, when you are neglected, you feel as if you are not worthy of being treated with respect. You wouldn't necessarily have the self-esteem to challenge your feelings of neglect... the acceptance of another (cheating) says that you are worthy of respect, you are worth something to someone.

As you have pointed out, the problems you fix by cheating creates a different one altogether... the compromise of your self respect and honour. Analog, you obviously retained your self respect in your situation, kudos to you

To regain your self-esteem at the expense of your self respect is a "false" fix. That was my point.

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To those who wander but who are not lost...

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anti fishstick

I think if you don't like your relationship, or the person that you're with, you will be more likely to *want* to cheat, but the choice is still 100% yours. You can always control your impulses.. or not.

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Key

As I was reading this thread, and everyone said the same thing, I tended to agree. There are very few absolutes in this world where you have *no* choice. Shit happens, and you'll often be presented with a situation, in this case- neglect. But you always have that *choice*. The choice to cheat, to break up with them, etc. Having this choice means if you cheat, it was 100% you- despite the circumstances that led you to the situation.

Seeker does raise an interesting point though- what if at that fatal turning point, you don't see that you do have a choice? If your self-esteem is so horribly damaged that you don't have the ability to make that choice (the choice to call them on it, and either break up or try to resolve the issues in the open), is it still your fault? At that point, I would have so say yes, you can be driven to cheat- but only if you were so weak that you did not realize you had that choice. Your fault then, would be weakness of character, not necessary evil in cheating. I'm not trying to support those that cheat, but I think I do understand where one might truly feel they were driven to cheat.

FallenAvatar

There are those that cheat in order to make the other feel terrible.

There are those that do it whom think they won't get caught.

There are those who don't care about either of the previous.

In the end it comes down to one thing; choice. One can be driven to cheat I guess but it is eventually that person's own willpower, or lack there of, which pushes them to cheat or not to cheat. So in answer to your question.. It's a choice.

And key, in answer to your question. If you allow your self-esteem to be so damaged that you can't tell weither or not you're making a choice then you've already made a choice; you let someone else run your life or degrade you into a point in which being around them isn't worth your time. At this point you would end the relationship. It's all about choice life ,is full of choices. Life is choices.