02-19-2005, 02:54 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Upright
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Abortion
You know, I hear from a lot of people and a lot of places that abortion is the *best* way to go.
That gets me so upset because when you realize it, you could easily put the kid up for adoption. If you are catholic, you should know that from the moment of conception, life is formed. Aborting it is killing it. That's a mortal sin... Did you know that the average wait time for adoption is 7-10 years? People think that if they put their baby up for adoption the baby will never find a loving home or family...no. There are thousands of people just waiting for a kid. Many of them are even willing to take in mentally challenged kids and handicapped kids. There was this loving couple who wanted to adopt. After roughly 8 years of waiting, they got their baby. After a day or two, the baby started to foam at the mouth and showed extreme symptoms. The parents brought it to the hospital to find out that the baby had AIDS. How devastated do you think that couple was? 8 years of waiting and after 1 day it's all gone. If you or somone you know is pregnant and is considering abortion, please consider adoption as well. Many couples who don't want to have sex, or who are infertile really want a child and have to wait so long. Did you also know that the adopters also pay the full bill? Something like that could end up costing the adopter 10-20 thousand dollars...you get all your expenses paid, so please consider! This is just my little rant.
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*TaM* | Dark_Deamon |
02-19-2005, 02:59 PM | #2 (permalink) |
strangelove
Location: ...more here than there...
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I am going to make a random guess ... that most pregnant women *do* consider their options...and make whichever they feel they can at the time (may or may not be the 'right' decision)...who's to say?
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02-19-2005, 03:13 PM | #3 (permalink) | |
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Location: Colorado
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02-19-2005, 03:19 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Go faster!
Location: Wisconsin
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But, life DOES begin at conception. A baby feels pain in a short time period after conception. I forget the time frame. They have fingerprints. A heart beat. I'm not sure there's much more to be said against that, really.
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Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised. |
02-19-2005, 03:38 PM | #5 (permalink) |
My future is coming on
Moderator Emeritus
Location: east of the sun and west of the moon
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Oy. Another abortion thread. Can we just cut to the chase and agree that the jury's out on the whole "when life begins" question, and agree to disagree civilly? I appreciate your plea for consideration of adoption, and I think saying that ANY solution to an unwanted pregnancy - whether it's adoption or abortion - is "the best way to go" is overly simplistic. Every woman's situation is different, and every woman has a right to make that decision for herself and live with whatever consequences that decision brings. Hopefully a woman who finds herself faced with an unwanted pregnancy has good friends and a support system to help her come to the decision that's right for her.
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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France |
02-19-2005, 04:28 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Twitterpated
Location: My own little world (also Canada)
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Case for abortion:
-no one has to know (I personally think this is a horrible case to make, but I believe it is one of the primary reasons abortion is done) -no pregnancy and birth to go through -less emotional pain when deciding to "give up" the baby Case for adoption: -you don't have to kill anything -you can give a child to people who want to adopt -it is an opportunity to "continue your bloodline" or "pass on your genes" or whatever you want to call it People will choose one or the other based on essentially these merits (unless I've missed a big one or two). The end.
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"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato |
02-19-2005, 04:29 PM | #7 (permalink) |
Fade out
Location: in love
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Thanks for expressing yourself here tamdarkdeamon . . .
Everyone has their own choices, having known someone who was adopted . . . i know it's a great decision, having known someone who had an abortion, that was also a great decision . . . It's different for every woman. I think the point that you are making is to really think deeply about the options one has . . . I accept anyone's choice as long as they think it through, which i think the majority of people do.
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02-19-2005, 05:14 PM | #8 (permalink) |
The Dreaded Pixel Nazi
Location: Inside my camera
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As long as our birthday is the day we pop out of the juicy womb....!!!. Okay that's not the best way to start this.
Me personally I would love to take the responsibility of parenthood if the situation arises and I have a child, but I'm also the male side of this and that's 9 months I don't have to deal with something inside me. I'm pro choice, but if I was a women, my babies would all be born.
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Hesitate. Pull me in.
Breath on breath. Skin on skin. Loving deep. Falling fast. All right here. Let this last. Here with our lips locked tight. Baby the time is right for us... to forget about us. |
02-19-2005, 05:32 PM | #9 (permalink) |
...is a comical chap
Location: Where morons reign supreme
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Ironically, I'm here because of abortion. Yep, that's right. My mom got pregnant before she met my dad, had an abortion, and knew she could never do it again...thus my parents got married, my brother was born, and I followed. I have to be thankful my mom made that choice to give up her first baby or I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't have had the chance to bring my son into the world. While I don't think that I could have an abortion, I respect other women's choices in the matter.
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02-19-2005, 05:53 PM | #10 (permalink) |
Filling the Void.
Location: California
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Like Sin said, most women probably do consider their choices. That's why I believe there should ALWAYS be a choice (and I still say this despite the fact that after four abortions, my mother was considering aborting me...but here I am).
About adoption, personally, I believe there are way too many children in poverty already. Why not adopt a baby that is starving in Africa or something? |
02-19-2005, 05:54 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
Filling the Void.
Location: California
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02-19-2005, 06:09 PM | #12 (permalink) | |
The Dreaded Pixel Nazi
Location: Inside my camera
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__________________
Hesitate. Pull me in.
Breath on breath. Skin on skin. Loving deep. Falling fast. All right here. Let this last. Here with our lips locked tight. Baby the time is right for us... to forget about us. |
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02-19-2005, 07:08 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
The Dreaded Pixel Nazi
Location: Inside my camera
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Same arguement could be brought up about how baby boys who get circumsized young don't feel pain because they don't remember. I sure hope they feel pain though, because like 90% of them pass out right as it's cut.
__________________
Hesitate. Pull me in.
Breath on breath. Skin on skin. Loving deep. Falling fast. All right here. Let this last. Here with our lips locked tight. Baby the time is right for us... to forget about us. |
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02-19-2005, 07:32 PM | #15 (permalink) | |
©
Location: Colorado
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Lurkette is right, this is an old argument without a solution. You either believe that human life begins at conception or you don't. |
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02-19-2005, 07:35 PM | #16 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: PA
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Anyway, even when the nerves have formed, and you can record activity, it doesn't mean much. You can also record "pain" in a lobster if you want to define it so loosely... A lobster will also "react" to stimuli in a way that might be interpreted as a perception of pain. Of course a baby is alive, but so is that lobster. I think that when people say a developing baby "isn't alive" in abortion arguments, they mean that it is not (yet) self-aware. I don't really like using that term, but it's the closest thing I can think of right now to what I have in mind. Last edited by stingc; 02-19-2005 at 07:38 PM.. |
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02-19-2005, 09:35 PM | #18 (permalink) |
Frontal Lobe
Location: California
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This debate is so tired...personally, although I believe that life begins at conception, I also support abortion. Shocking, I know. There is one consideration I don't recall seeing mentioned here:
According to the World POP Clock projection, found on the US Census Bureau website here, the current world population is 6,419,856,854. It's not like there's any shortage of people - we are overbreeding ourselves into a real mess here. The ancient tribal cultures upon whose traditions most religions today are based encouraged people to be fruitful and multiply because that would encourage survival of their particular gene pool and cultural group. It also made sense due to high mortality rates and the need for labor. We live in a radically different world today. I personally don't believe there is anything inherently good about the notion of bringing more human lives into this world. As for the folks who want to adopt...sorry, I don't know what to say about that. I think that might just be one of those "too bad" kind of things. Last edited by Squishor; 02-19-2005 at 09:41 PM.. |
02-19-2005, 11:02 PM | #19 (permalink) |
Thank God hockey is back
Location: Deeeeeetroit
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I'm not even sure why this thread exists in this forum. This is hardly a sexuality issue...this is a human rights/philosophy/religion/living issue. Sure the act of creating that baby is a sexual one but there's no sexual relevance in having an abortion or giving a child up for adoption.
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02-19-2005, 11:10 PM | #20 (permalink) | |
The Dreaded Pixel Nazi
Location: Inside my camera
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Point well taken, maybe though it's appropriate. To remind people that there is consequences to our pleasures, and that it is a very real subject to many of us here.
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Hesitate. Pull me in.
Breath on breath. Skin on skin. Loving deep. Falling fast. All right here. Let this last. Here with our lips locked tight. Baby the time is right for us... to forget about us. |
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02-20-2005, 10:54 AM | #21 (permalink) | |
Insane
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while i appreciate your plea for adoption, i'm not sure what this story has to do with it...
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at any rate, i'm very pro-choice (which is not the same as being pro-abortion). i'm not against adoption at all, i think it is a great thing--provided the woman in question is willing to go through with it. but i'd also like to mention that adoption is not an alternative to abortion. adoption is an alternative to parenthood. abortion terminates pregnancy, if you want to give a child up for adoption you still have to go through with pregnancy first. if i had an unplanned pregnancy my initial options are to continue with the pregnancy or not (abortion). if i make the choice to continue the pregnancy, i'm faced with the options of raising a child or putting it up for adoption. for women who can't (or won't), for whatever reasons, go through pregnancy, adoption is not an option. perhaps someday it will be, but right now it isn't. |
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02-20-2005, 03:18 PM | #22 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Louisiana
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I'm seriously tired of the argument against abortion because there are people out there who can't have kids and who want them....
What about these kids? While well intentioned, no pics of kids are allowed on TFP! -lebell These are just a handful of the 250+ kids desperately waiting for permanent adoptive homes in Louisiana. Their only crime? Not being cute, cuddly babies. If you have room in your heart and home for a child, then these children should be the first ones considered. And until they are, and until there are no more of these kids waiting for homes, I will continue to fight for a woman's right to choose an abortion.
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“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” ~Sinclair Lewis Last edited by Lebell; 02-28-2005 at 07:35 PM.. |
02-20-2005, 04:49 PM | #24 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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i think that their are 2 big reasons younger people (17-25) go through with abortion:
1.) you are now pregnant. in today's society, seeing a someone who's 18 and pregnant gives people ideas. is this person a slut? how is she going to raise this kid at her age? how could she be that stupid? an image is formed...and most often its the wrong image. young people have to live with people staring/glaring and the comments for a good 4 months. that's too long to take. 2.) being pregnant is a 9 month hold on your life. you are responsible for this developing baby inside you....so drinking, smoking, social environments are off limits. no more having the same kind of fun that you have been used to for years. |
02-20-2005, 08:40 PM | #25 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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I am a male and feel completely unqualified to make a judgement on abortion. The male opinion on the subject is insignificant when compared to the impact this issue has on women. I am also strongly against a bunch of old men in suits making a decision that affects all women. Frankly, I think it should be put to referendum in the US and only the women get to vote on it.
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02-21-2005, 04:27 PM | #26 (permalink) |
Insane
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I don't agree with abortion myself but every situation is different. My brother and his first wife lost two sons, first was stillborn at 6 months, the other died from SIDS at a month old, after that his wife suffered medical problems of her own and died. His second wife was older than he was and never could conceive. He would be a GREAT dad and I know what your saying about how couples who can't have children would adopt unwanted babies. But as Bryndian Dhai pointed out what about all the children who are already in the system???
You have to look at the circumstances surrounding a woman choosing an abortion. I'm pregnant now and due in a couple more weeks and have had an excellent pregnancy, but I know there are people who have a lot of complications, and maybe people just don't want to take the chance for a baby they aren't keeping anyway. Not to mention the time off from work that a single woman maybe can't afford. |
02-22-2005, 01:58 PM | #27 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Michigan
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First off, put the Catholic view of abortion away. I was raised Catholic, and the crap that church dishes out makes me want to puke when I hear about the molestation that they continaully knew about & covered up. That organization is crooked in a big way. Take a few steps back & think over who's writing the rules you believe in.
Now that I have said that, one of my best friends was adopted. The one thing he said to me that really stuck was "how many of our geniuses have been killed by abortion?". Think about it, some amazing people like Einstein only come along once in a hundred years. Yep, one of them who may have changed the world (maybe in a good way, maybe in a bad way) have been eliminated by abortion. That being said, I still support it. It's the mothers right to do what she wishes. |
02-27-2005, 10:50 PM | #28 (permalink) |
Upright
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i support the right to choose. That said, I don't know any women who've had an abortion that aren't a total mess emotionally.
Women are built to have children and most of them have instincts that make them feel very strongly about children. Hurting a child or doing anything other than caring for it are not things many women can do w/o massive psych repercussions. There are women who do not have these instincts, and for that reason, I think they should be allowed to do whatever they want with their bodies, as long as they pay for it and not burden the fed or state government. Out of 4 or 5 I've known, I don't know any women who've had an abortion that aren't a total mess emotionally afterward for a long time. |
02-28-2005, 04:22 AM | #29 (permalink) |
Leaning against the -Sun-
Super Moderator
Location: on the other side
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Woman's body, her choice. Not the government's. That being said, there should be limitations as to under what circumstances it is allowed. You don't want women using it as birth control!
I think adoption is all very well...but the world is already over populated. You have no guarantee your baby is going to a good home and that he/she will live a happy, healthy life. And you have no control over what is done after you sign them over. As for the church...hypocrisy on many levels rings a bell. No comment.
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Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918 |
02-28-2005, 04:24 PM | #30 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: nOvA
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I'm nominally Catholic, and I'm against abortion in most cases. It has nothing to do with what the Church says, and everything to do with what is right. A life that has the potential to suck is infinitely better than none at all. It isn't black and white, I can see some cases, I could see a reason for it, but things like poverty or overpopulation do not work in my opinion. The earth is not overpopulated. India, and China are overpopulated, but America has so much land either unused or used innefficiently, that it's rediculous to use such an argument. Our government pays farmers not to use there lands every year so that the price of food stays high, and yet people starve. The US government buys up excess milk and stores it in a cavern in Kansas, and we still believe that America is overpopulated. We've got plenty of land, and a lot of water, and the potential for more food, how then are we overpopulated? |
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02-28-2005, 05:23 PM | #31 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Tobacco Road
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I'm a pro-lifer and I believe that very, very few women who decide to have an abortion make that decision lightly. People who think that they haven't thought through all the angles and options do not have a true grasp on the psyche of a woman's mind.
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02-28-2005, 06:48 PM | #32 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: Louisiana
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I have not had one single regret, nor have I had any emotional fallout since my abortion. I'm not saying it was an easy decision... far from it, it was one of the most difficult I've ever made. And I don't know any woman who can say that it was easy. I've worked for nearly 15 years with women pre- and post- abortion and know far more women who are emotionally sound after their decision than I do women who are not. All women (and men, too, for that matter) are vulnerable after making a potentially life-impacting decision, in the face of moral beliefs, public opinion and the pressures of friends and family. And I've seen what exposure to the propaganda of the pro-life camp can do to a woman vulnerable after a difficult and life-changing decision. Its a shame that moral decisions cannot be left to the individual without interference from outside sources. Even Jesus said that a person's moral decisions cannot be forced, nor can a person be compelled to believe.
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02-28-2005, 07:10 PM | #33 (permalink) |
Zeroed In
Location: CA
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Just wanted to chime in and say that I am adopted, and am grateful every day that my 16 year old mother deciding to go through with the pregnancy and give me up for adoption and give me a chance to live. I would like to think she would be proud of her decision today.
She knew she was in no position to raise me, but was responsible for my existence and made the best decision of my life by giving that life to me to live. And for that I thank her.
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03-05-2005, 08:33 AM | #34 (permalink) | |
Chicks dig the Saxaphone
Location: Nowheresville OH
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Also, men's preferences should have no bearing on the issue of women's bodies. Do women want to force circumcisions upon all men?
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03-05-2005, 04:08 PM | #35 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Central California
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I think we are ruining our women and in turn ruining our society by allowing abortions. Its somehting like 40% of all women carry a baby to term within one year of having an abortion, how do you think that effects them? How do you think it affects the way they treat thier new kid? We dont allow heroin use because we know that is bad for you, why should abortion be any different? Why do we have to infuse religion in the whole thing? Who cares when life starts when we are effectivly allowing the womans life to stop.
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03-05-2005, 04:16 PM | #36 (permalink) | |
The Dreaded Pixel Nazi
Location: Inside my camera
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__________________
Hesitate. Pull me in.
Breath on breath. Skin on skin. Loving deep. Falling fast. All right here. Let this last. Here with our lips locked tight. Baby the time is right for us... to forget about us. |
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03-05-2005, 06:06 PM | #39 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: nOvA
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03-05-2005, 06:14 PM | #40 (permalink) |
"Without the fuzz"
Location: ..too close for comfort..
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i'm adopted ..i'm glad my 18 year old birth mother made that choice because thats why i'm here today..however..personally i'm not ready to be pregnant never mind having kids..i f i were to get pregnant.... well the clinic is on my speed dial
womens bodies. womens choice. (however maybe the daddy shoudl have a little tiny say..like 2%)
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