12-20-2004, 12:30 AM | #2 (permalink) |
It's All About The Ass!!
Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!
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I think it probably matters a <font size=4>LOT</font> to me. I think it's awesome when a girl likes some of the stuff I like...ESPECIALLY if she has my taste in hip-hop...I mean if she's heard of Binary Star or K-Otix thats it we're gettin married . I also like a girl who knows her rock....who listens to REAL R&B not *shrug* Destiny's Child *shrug* or someone like that...I imagine I'd like that a lot because I like music so much it's probably annoying to most people that don't. I mean it wouldn't be the be all end all factor I like lots of other qualities too like if she's smart and funny and goofy...shit like that but who am I kidding? I'll prolly meet my wife at a concert or sumfin
Asta!!
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"I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys! - Asta!! |
12-20-2004, 02:34 AM | #5 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Plano, TX
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It is very important for me to have similar musical interests as my SO... I am a musician and music is one of the things in this world that I live for. I could not be with someone that didn't enjoy listening to music together with me, or going to concerts with me.
Granted, they don't have to have the same favorites and what not... but similar genre and a similar appreciation for music is a must for me.
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"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw |
12-20-2004, 07:30 AM | #6 (permalink) |
Insane
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Not that important. I listen to music when I'm driving, at work, or playing on my computer at home, none of which involve my wife. She likes country, I hate it except for some of the older stuff like Johnny Cash or Willie Nelson. I like power metal, Iron Maiden, Gamma Ray, Nightwish...stuff you don't usually hear on the radio. And prog rock like Rush and Dream Theater. Occasionally some techno. So we're pretty much on opposite ends of the spectrum, about the only thing we both agree on is 80s hair bands
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12-20-2004, 07:35 AM | #7 (permalink) |
All hail the Mountain King
Location: Black Mesa
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What's more important than having similar music tastes when you start out is the ability to accept and explore new music that your SO brings to the relationship.
Don't be such an inflexible hardass that you won't listen to anything other than what you already like.
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The Truth: Johnny Cash could have kicked Bruce Lee's ass if he wanted to. #3 in a series |
12-20-2004, 07:37 AM | #8 (permalink) |
Devoted
Donor
Location: New England
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The girl I married was the first to like my music. She started from the same "base" as I did (hard rock and Broadway), and I was able to expand her musical horizons over the time of our relationship.
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12-20-2004, 08:49 AM | #9 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Texas
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MT wife and I have been married 13 years, and still don't really have the same preferences. We can each listen to and appreciate the other's music, and there are certainly a number of artists that overlap, but in general we differ pretty significantly in our tastes. Still have a great relationship and all that, so I'm going to have to say that it's a great deal less important than one might initially suspeect. In the long run, eventually you can grow to appreciate the talent and skill whether or not you prefer a specific type of music.
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12-20-2004, 09:06 AM | #10 (permalink) |
Adequate
Location: In my angry-dome.
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To me things like musical preference are distractions. Spend enough energy on them and you'll talk yourself out of any relationship. It also burns effort better spent on real issues that might arise. Rather than looking at the things that might not work, look for - and point out - those that do. When you find enough good stuff and can maintain the desire to make the relationship work it will overcome all the insignificant junk.
The other side of this is that you should feel lucky to be worried about something so trivial. |
12-20-2004, 09:16 AM | #11 (permalink) | |
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12-20-2004, 11:10 AM | #12 (permalink) |
Banned from being Banned
Location: Donkey
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Depends on what her other tastes are like and what's important to you. I take music and movies pretty seriously. I know what I like and I can generally gauge a person's intellect and personality by the movies and music they like.
For example, in music, I love Nirvana, Mike Patton, Nine Inch Nails, and Tool. Movies, I like Zoolander, Fear & Loathing, The Godfather, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and Night/Dawn/Day of the Dead. If another person likes those, then they will most likely have the same personality, sense of humor, and likes/dislikes that I do. It hasn't failed yet. It's probably not the best thing to do, but making generalizations based off someone's interest does save time in the long run. If a girl enjoys Limp Bizkit and Hoobastank and her favorite movie of all time is "I know what you did last summer" (hah, I just typed "I can't believe it's not butter"...) , then chances are pretty slim to none that she has good taste in anything else or can do other things like hold semi-intelligent convo. There are exceptions to the rule, of course, but it's very rare that you'll overlook "the one" by using this. Of course, if it doesn't bother you being with a "drone", then carry on (again, not *everyone* is like this, but pretty much all of them are). I've talked to girls before who were into dumb commercial shit like J-Lo and Britney Spears thinking, "Hm, maybe she's intelligent and just so happens to like crappy music..." but... almost each and every time, there's nothing up in the old noggin. They may be fun to be around as a friend, or the "Hey I'm bored, wanna go party?" type of friend, but anything more than that, good luck getting it out of them. They can tell you what brands of clothes look good, or who won best artist at the MTV music awards, but they can't hold a political convo worth a damn, because it doesn't conern them.. or they won't/can't (because they lack knowledge or interest in) have deep intellectual conversations about anything else, really... sorry, there's more to life than American Eagle Outlet and Abercrombie.
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I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 12-20-2004 at 11:12 AM.. |
12-20-2004, 11:30 AM | #13 (permalink) |
Kick Ass Kunoichi
Location: Oregon
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I have several no-nos where music is concerned, and they're all very complex. 1) Rap music. Forget it. If a guy ONLY listens to rap music, no thanks. If it's part of a wide variety of musical tastes, fine. 2) Country. Well, new country. If a guy listens to Garth Brooks, George Jones and Johnny Cash, that's okay. 3) Speed metal. Simply because it gives me a headache. 4) Screaming lesbian punk music. NO NO NO NO NO. NO. 5) Punk music. I like my tunes to have a little more complexity, thank you. More than three chords, please. If, however, the punk is part of a larger variety, fine.
Heh. Both of my best guy friends listen to music I dislike, but we're still friends. One loves the rap and the hard rock, which I don't really care for...but he has a deep love for Pink Floyd, which redeems him. The other loves rock music, same as me, but his two favorite bands (bands I used to like before I met him) are the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Radiohead. Why do I dislike them now? BECAUSE HE PLAYED THEM SO MUCH. But there are other bands and acts we like to listen to together--Floater, Muse, Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn. He also has issues with my taste in music--I love Franz Ferdinand. He disagrees. Basically, if a guy's taste in music is wide in variety, I'm willing to forgive the few faults they may have
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12-20-2004, 11:40 AM | #14 (permalink) |
Submit to me, you know you want to
Location: Lilburn, Ga
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Its very important to me......while it might not be THE deciding factor...its certainly a consideration. If I were interested in someone that only liked rap or country it would seriously impact things. I wouldnt be able to be around them when they were enjoying their music...as both kinds make me want to commit murder
Im fortunate enuff that Dave knew my fav bands Ratt AND Enuff Z'nuff AND he knew EZN so well he knew most of their song lyrics.....THAT was a big plus for him
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12-20-2004, 11:48 AM | #16 (permalink) |
A boy and his dog
Location: EU!
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Short and sweet: I think it does matter greatly. I can't imagine being with someone who'd blast techno music in the morning - It'd make me unhappy, and, well, that's just not the point, is it? In fact, I think that if you have opposing tastes in music, you're doomed to fail, unless you're the one-in-a-million couple that was predestined to be together forever... but you know what the chances for that are, right?
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12-20-2004, 12:05 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Adequate
Location: In my angry-dome.
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If your potential s/o is a rude bastage the problem isn't the music. If they persist with stuff that makes you choke, even after you've talked about it, there's something wrong besides the music. It's a symptom, not a cause. Anyway, if tastes are blindingly different there's not a big chance you'll be around each other to start anything anyway.
Sure, having common interests is a good thing. The more in common the easier it is to get something started. But relationships and the people in them grow & change or it dies. Looking for perfection out of the gate means writing off some potentially great matches, however unlikely they might seem. Beyond a few fundamental issues, for me it's always come down to how we communicate and work through things, not the little things we have to work through. |
12-20-2004, 08:10 PM | #20 (permalink) |
Junkie
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I rank it moderately important. Not so much to the point that it would be a deal breaker but compatability in that area would be nice. My main thing would have to be musically openminded to at least put up with what I want to listen to at that moment. I listen to just about any and everything just depends on my mood. So it would be unlikely I wouldn't be able to listen to her music but it's possible that she could get annoyed with mine and as long as she can keep that to herself and try to like it we are cool. If she's constantly making me switch it to her channel or her CD...then that's a sign of something more than just varying musical tastes in my opinion.
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12-20-2004, 11:40 PM | #23 (permalink) |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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I rarely run into anyone who likes the same music that I do. I'd say far less than 1% of people. Combine that with the small cross-section of the population that I find attractive, and I've got a one-in-a-million chance of everythign lining up right.
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12-20-2004, 11:47 PM | #24 (permalink) |
whoopity doo
Location: Seattle
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When I was younger and my music was part of my identity and an outward expression of who I was trying to be, it was important to me. Now, its not important at all. As long as she's not making me listen to stuff I don't enjoy, I could care less what she listens to in her free time.
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12-21-2004, 12:21 AM | #25 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Australia
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its very important to me.. i take new musical influences from most people i meet so if i dont like a girls music tastes at all it can get very difficult... but then again one of my best mates loves techno and i cant stand it. not the same as a SO but you still spend a significiant amount of time together.
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12-21-2004, 06:13 AM | #27 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Boston
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I think it's very important....I can tell what kind of person someone (and level of overall intelligence) is by the music and movies that they like.
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12-21-2004, 06:20 AM | #28 (permalink) |
Helplessly hoping
Location: Above the stars
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We like the same jazz and big band stuff. Besides that I'm a total music snob and would never have the expectation that someone else should be like me in that respect. That being said, we listen to my music most of the time. There are some bands we both like, but I dominate the music in this house.
Our song is "A Kiss to Build a Dream On" -- Louis Armstrong |
12-21-2004, 06:31 AM | #29 (permalink) | |
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12-21-2004, 06:43 AM | #30 (permalink) | |
Mulletproof
Location: Some nucking fut house.
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Quote:
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Don't always trust the opinions of experts. |
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12-21-2004, 06:58 AM | #31 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Wales, UK, Europe, Earth, Milky Way, Universe
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I really wouldn't care about a girl's taste in music although, it does say something about her personality if she's one of those sheep who follows certain bands and loves everything they do just because she's a fan. I prefer girls who can look at every genre of music, every band and every artist and pick the best songs from each of them.
In summary, taste in music doesnt matter but open mindedness does
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12-21-2004, 07:10 AM | #32 (permalink) |
Canadian Beer Ambassador
Location: Cumming, GA
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Good question. Does taste in music matter.. Hmm..
Would you kick her out of bed for eating crackers? Would you leave her if she ate sushi? Would you break up with her if she liked Hockey? I have tried to lead you to an enlightened answer here, but incase you missed it "STOP BEING SO SHALLOW!" If the girl feeds the homeless and gives glasses to the poor, you would drop her for listening to Britney Spears? Seriously, either you aren't ready for a permanent relationship, or you are about as deep as a puddle. edit: Monkey I just saw your post, and am very glad you consider yourself intelligent. But before you break your arm patting yourself on the back, consider that Moderate and Severely retarded children are played Classical music because it helps soothe them. Violent criminals are also played classical music for the same reason. So you are of course in very good, intelligent company listening to your classical music.
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Take Off Eh! Last edited by theburner; 12-21-2004 at 07:15 AM.. |
12-21-2004, 08:15 AM | #33 (permalink) |
Banned from being Banned
Location: Donkey
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It's not being shallow...
Gauging someone's personality, likes, dislikes, etc off of taste in music is a bit different than saying, "Ugh, she can't hold intelligent conversation because of that god awful mole on her face." Read my post above. If you don't believe me, go out and try it for yourself... meet a girl who's deeply interested in all these hideous mass marketed bands (most of which are on MTV) and just see how far that relationship gets you. I CHALLENGE you to try it. Yeah, it SOUNDS shallow, but it's not. Ask them to name 15 bands/groups they like. If the majority of those are the crappy mass marketed acts, chances are VERY HIGH that the person isn't very open minded about the world around em. Now, if it was something like 15 indie bands I've never heard of... that's another story. I won't turn down a person because of that. If they loved, say, Britney Spears but also liked Nine Inch Nails or Mike Patton, I wouldn't turn them down. If you read my post above, I gave a good example on how music, movies, and other interests easily allow you to gauge a person and understand (at a glance) how their immediate personality is - that's all. No, it doesn't gauge whether or not they're good in bed, good at talking, or good at dealing with problems in a relationship. However, that is only if music is REALLY something you're into. If you really don't care to begin with, then no, it's not a good way to gauge someone's personality and character. But honestly now, tons of people can easily communicate and get along with each other. Who wants a boring relationship where one person has NOTHING in common with the other? If you like movies and music, then you're gonna want a person who also likes movies and music. I'm into computers and video games, and hate sports, so do you really think I'd try to get someone who dislikes video games and absolutely LOVES sports? Hell no. That's not being shallow, that's saying, "Hey, I want someone that I can connect with." [edit] Of course... it depends on how you are. Everyone is different. Personally, I enjoy intelligent conversation, thus, it's important to me that the person I'm with is able to do that. Past experiences I've had with people who've had bad taste (according to me) in music/movies hasn't shown that they are capable of doing that at all. I can even see this with friends. There are one or two who have horrid tastes in movies/music that CAN hold intelligent conversation. The others... they are very fun to be around, but I could never see being in a serious lasting relationship with someone like that. I'm not saying they aren't fun or aren't good people, just not relationship-type material *to me*.
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I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 12-21-2004 at 08:30 AM.. |
12-21-2004, 09:40 AM | #34 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Actually ones taste in music says a lot about them and I don't think taking that into consideration is shallow at all. It is in fact being realistic about who one is and what one wants in a relationship. I greatly dislike country music. If I met a girl that LOVED country music, knew all the performers names, song lyrics and went to the concerts than even if I liked her as a person I know a long term relationship would be difficult at best. Listening to her music on long car trips would be torturous and going to concerts would be out of the question. If the girl was deeply into sports or fishing or any number of things that don't float my boat there could be a problem. Mild interest differences don't make a difference but major cultural and interest differences can cause problems. It doesn't necessarily doom a relationship but wouldn't one be happier with someone that shares the majority of the same interests?
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12-21-2004, 09:55 AM | #35 (permalink) |
Canadian Beer Ambassador
Location: Cumming, GA
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Nope, I still vote shallow.
Stompy: I agree that if you find someone that likes mostly mass marketed bands you will find someone shallow. BECAUSE THEY ARE 15 YEARS OLD! Listen people, I would be willing to take a bet that ALL of you that are saying how important music compatibility is are single. (Dating maybe, but not married). Why do I infer this? Because there are a TON of more important things to be compatible with. Like raising children, employment, travelling, sex, finances, religion, etc... And until you figure this out you will remain single. Now why I call this shallow is because you people make it sound like you wouldn't marry someone if EVERYTHING lined up except the music. "Well Stan, she has a great body, loves kids, is a doctor, volunteers at the rape clinic, and is one hell of a considerate lover!" "You sound happy Bob, going to marry her?" "Hell no Stan, she likes Milli Vanilli!" See, shallow as hell. Basically you are stereotyping people that listen to specific music, which we all know is ignorant.
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12-21-2004, 10:03 AM | #36 (permalink) |
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Location: In a State of Denial
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This question has always plagued me. Even though I'm REALLY into music, I never thought music should be a deciding factor in a relationship. Then I got married to someone with a very limited taste in music. It did become a source of tension in our relationship. I could never really listen to what I wanted to listen to without pissing her off, and that pissed me off. Out of my 100 or 200 CDs I had at the time, she liked about 6 of them. And they weren't anywhere close to my favorites. Just staples you needed to have in your collection. So, she found the "endless repeat" button on the CD player. Oh my GOD! I still connot stand to hear anything more than once. Four hours of Fleetwood Mac's Rumors is enough to make anyone grab an ax and just start hacking away at whatever's in front of you.
Now that I'm single and looking again I'm not really sure what I'll look for as far as musical taste. I have meet very intelligent, very fun people to be around that don't share my taste in music, so I suppose it shouldn't be THE deciding factor. If you want her to listen to your music, you should listen to hers as well. Openess from both partners are required when you're really passionate about something (like music). Off course, there is some music that just don't have a large female audience, so you can't expect your tasted to match up on everything. If I find a girl that likes King Crimson, I think I'll fall over. My last gf was a bit younger than me, so she had a completely different taste in music than me. I took her to see both Bowie and Prince last year. She had no idea who Bowie was (she refered to him as the guy with the fucked up eye) and was only slightly aware of Prince (right before the concert started she said, "I think I'm gonna have fun, and I don't even like Prince"). She had a blast at both shows. She didn't like it when I played jazz, but oddly didn't mind show tunes. She was probably the easiest to get along with, as far as music went.
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12-21-2004, 10:07 AM | #37 (permalink) |
Soylent Green is people.
Location: Northern California
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It really depends on how big her tits are...
(ow! stop hitting me!) Seriously, by your rationale everyone should expand their taste in music so they can appreciate different people .... hmm. Doesn't sound half bad. Please don't judge someone by their musical tastes. That's like judging someone's social competence by the amount of time they spend on internet forums... I dated this beautiful woman - flight attendant, ex-lingerie model and really funny and fun to be with. Turns out she was into country music (I didn't have a clue) - I was so into her, and she loved teaching me all about it during the 4 years we dated. The point is, that different musical tastes can be a good thing if you have an open mind. She's now my ex-GF, but we're still good friends - The music will always remain with me to remind me of some really great times we had.... (*sniff* Where did I put that frigging iPod?) Last edited by longbough; 12-21-2004 at 10:19 AM.. |
12-21-2004, 10:41 AM | #38 (permalink) |
Canadian Beer Ambassador
Location: Cumming, GA
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Longbough.. Thanks for a voice of reason. I bet all the haters in here would love to dump a lingerie model because she listens to country.
Don't limit yourself to one type of music folks, there is good music available in EVERY category, although I personally don't listen to "manufactured" stars either. That is the only category I don't listen too though.
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12-21-2004, 11:18 AM | #39 (permalink) |
Banned from being Banned
Location: Donkey
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You're misunderstanding, theburner, that's all.
Music is not the END ALL decision in a relationship. You stated, "She's great, a doctor, loves kids, but listens to Milli Vanilli"... that's a perfectly valid exception. I am stating an example that I would use, with the whole "mass marketed MTV bands" thing. I don't know how old you are, but you must live under a rock if you think only 15 year olds are like that. I've met a LOT of females my age (24) and older who are like that, and while they're good friends, a lasting relationship with them would be pretty dull and uninteresting. Yeah, they may be good people and all, but I want more from a relationship than, "Hey, we get along, let's spend the rest of our lives together!" Why? Well, in this one case (which, again, is just an example of how music can matter), I find that people who enjoy that type of music aren't too keen or aware about the world around em. Their sense of humor is somewhat basic, and they are often unable to hold semi-intelligent convo. Their likes and dislikes are based off of what their friends/TV tells them to like. Trust me, I've met these people before all over, and while they aren't ALL like that, most of them are. So, it's fair to assume that with someone who enjoys that type of music, chances are very slim to none that they'll turn out as an ideal partner. That's what I'm trying to explain.. and that's not being shallow. Shallow is saying something like, "I won't ever date fat girls" or "Redheaded people are annoying, so no, I won't date one," not, "I've found that 8/10 people I know who like this type of music generally aren't compatible with my other interests in life. While I would like to be friends with them, I don't think a relationship would work out." Big difference! What I am saying is, you can get a general idea of someone's personality by their tastes in music, that's all. I hate country music and sappy romance flicks. If I met a girl that LOVED country music and her fav movie was "Maid In Manhattan", it's not like I'll turn my back on her and tell her to fuck off, but it's like anything else... talking to them, spending time with them, etc... you can get a good idea of a part of them by those tastes. I'll still talk to em and see how they are as a person in general, but, will she enjoy my dead baby jokes? Will she enjoy Night of the Living Dead with me? Probably not. Will she want to go to a Mike Patton concert with me and enjoy it with me? Probably not. Everyone has different interests that they want from relationships. That's not being shallow. Like I said, I challenge you to try it. I didn't say 100% of the time people who like Britney Spears and Hoobastank, for example, will be uninteresting drones, but... it's pretty high up there. Getting a general idea of someone's personality, likes, and dislikes because of their tastes in music and movies is NOT being shallow. It's no different than if you got to know them and later found out you weren't all that interested in em. Is that shallow? No. I can understand why you'd think it would, but just take a second out to understand what I'm trying to say. Don't jump to conclusions To answer the topic's question: how much does it matter? To me, a good amount. I can walk into a place wearing a Mr. Bungle shirt, and if a girl comes up to me and says, "Hi, I really love your shirt!" I can know then and there that the chances of us being compatible with additional interests and sense of humor will be quite high.. that's all.
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I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 12-21-2004 at 11:24 AM.. |
12-21-2004, 12:14 PM | #40 (permalink) |
Soylent Green is people.
Location: Northern California
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Let's turn this question around.
What do your musical tastes say about yourself? I'll start: I like vocals. From unpolished voices full of angst (Tom Waits, Van Morrison, Billy Bragg, Ramones, Sex Pistols, Billie Holiday, Maria McKee, Chuck Berry...), to polished and sexy (Kathleen Battle, Cecilia Bartoli, Ella and early Billie...) and others (Luz Casal, los Panchos, Maria Dolores Pradera, Ofra Haza, John Fogarty, Ray Davies, Sade, Lambert Hendricks and Ross, Blossom Dearie, Dave Frishberg, Bob Dorough, Jolie Holland, George Jones...). I'm a straight male who likes Broadway (especially Soundheim - Len Cariou's "Sweeney Todd" is incomparable.) Frank Loesser is great. Frank Wildhorn ("Jeckyl and Hyde"). I think A. L. Weber is overrated fluff. I like some classical and opera- Mahler (at the right moment), Beethoven (Von Karajan & Berlin Philharmonic's take on the symphonies are my favorite (hardly an original opinion but they speak to me nonetheless. The piano concertos have been done to death), Strauss (Richard and Johan), Prokoviev, Puccini...) I'm not crazy about Mozart... I'm definitely into Jazz - Monk is wonderful (even though his improvs can be hit/miss - his "hits" can get you from unexpected directions), Fats Waller, Duke, Oscar Peterson... I never got as much into Miles or Bird - maybe some day they'll speak to me. Most (but not all) "Jazz Fusion" plays like rock without balls IMHO. I think George Winston is annoying (play the keyboard real slow then change the chord every 5 minutes... then you've got an LP). Motown - that's a whole big category itself - There's a lot of derivative junk in the milieu, but also some incredible gems in the bunch (Blue Magic, Delfonics..). Yeah, I like Sinatra, Bobby Short and Tony Bennett - what of it? Then there's Tom Petty, Ricky Lee Jones, Joan Jett, Donald Fagen, Camper Van Beethoven, Van Halen, ZZ Top, Talking Heads, CCR, Brooks and Dunn, Diamond Rio, Alanis Morissette (before she started selling out), Azucar Moreno, Juan Gabriel's lyrics, Garbage, Parlaiment, Funkadelic, Gap Band, Prince, Randy Crawford, Heat Wave, Pointer Sisters, James Brown, Marvin Gaye, EW&F, Bally Sagoo (early stuff)....(I'm leaving a whole bunch of stuff out) I don't just listen to old stuff, but MTV definitely killed a lot of music for me - there's some good stuff still out there but there's a shitload of overproduced garbage out there to wade through. I never got into rap. I'm embarassed to admit I listen to these: Go Gos, Bangles, Yoko Minamino, Oasis... (come on, doesn't everybody have some "guilty pleasure" with some song or band you know is shallow, overproduced and/or just bad?) I'm even going to stick my neck waaaaay out and admit that I cried when I listened to that damned theme song to "Titanic." But you won't catch me dead in the Celine Dion section of my local music store. I don't think that makes me "shallow" I don't mind if you want to ridicule my tastes - at least I get laid. I think the only thing you can tell about me is that I'm in my late 30s and that I've dated some latinas. I generally date younger women - many of them learned how to listen to jazz with me. But a final word about tastes: Since I'm into women I guess I wouldn't mind if my GF was into them, too - (kidding...no I'm not) Last edited by longbough; 12-21-2004 at 12:29 PM.. |
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