Brooke

Quote from : http://www127.pair.com/critical/food-03.htm


I looked up the verse in question. Onan was guilty of the sin of refusing Gods direct order to consumate with his brothers wife. The Jewish tradition is called "levirate marriage" - The issue with wasted sperm is primarily a church tradition - and especially the Catholic Churches fixation on sperm has been noted (Monty Python "Every Sperm is Sacred")

Are there any other verses? Can someone - using scripture - argue to me that there is a biblical basis for this? What do modern day spiritual leaders say about this? Is there adminition against these pratices in other holy works for other religions?

I hope also that I got the right forum - this can be mostly reviewed as a religious discussion.

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And so its over
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Carno

I don't think there are any parts of the Bible that say masturbation is wrong. The only reason people think it's wrong is because the church back in the day said maturbation is wrong. A lot of misconceptions people have are due to dumb rules that the church made up, not the Bible.

Dumbfuck people from the middle ages decided to say that bodily gratification in any form is wrong, sex is only to make babies, etc, so people still think that today. People are dumb as shit and the problem is that these ministers and pastors and whoever don't preach what the Bible says, they preach what THEY say the Bible says. Then they find vague references to back up their outrageous statements.

Stompy

I recall a passage someone once quoted .. (kinda), something about god being pissed because some guy spilled his "seed".

Regardless, it doesn't matter if it was against the bible - most would still do it anyway. Besides, they're saved from all sin anyway.

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Locs

lol Stompy and Carn.

Very true. I can wack-off till I am a raw, but as long as I ask for forgivness, its all good.

Being athiest myself, I could care less what people interpet the bible to say, but again like the post above says, even it says its wrong...most everyone still will.

Hell if it was illegal, people would have a Whack-House right next to a Crack-House.

Carno

Uh... Stompy, read the first post again. And no one is "saved from sin." If you sin and then repent and really mean it, God will forgive you, but you still sinned the same as anyone else.

The thing about the Genesis verse is that the dumbfuck Catholic church took shit out of context. God was pissed because Onan did not impregnate the woman, not because Onan jizzed on the ground. Just another thing that moron religious people screwed up.

MASTURBATION IN ITSELF IS NOT A SIN. You don't have to repent for it. However, if you think about a man/woman (who is not your husband/wife, even if you aren't married yet) while you wank, THAT is a sin. Lusting is a sin, and coveting another person's spouse is a sin, but the Bible says NOTHING about masturbation being a sin.

duxx0r

Not being able to masturbate is your punishment for being a sucker...

Carno

LMFAO!

Yeah that's true... If you don't read the Bible for yourself, you deserve to get worked over by insane religious people.

Coppertop

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful!

Lockjaw

Nope it's not in there and I've looked long and hard for it.


**Now regrets having put long and hard in the same sentence**

clavus

Zeph 3:16
"...let not thy hand be slack."

Sound like the Bible promotes it.

__________________
Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

getmyfix

Hate to rain on your parade:

Matthew 5:27-30

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Of course it doesn't say anything about looking at men...

stingc

Wow. Short of cutting your balls off or making sure all women dress in burkhas, this seems impossible to follow.

Coppertop

Hate to rain on your parade but looking at a woman lustfully does not equate with masturbation. True, they often go hand in hand (groan) but the one does not necessitate the other.

kutulu

It's somewhat difficult to jerk off without lustful thoughts. The physical act of it might not be a sin but the thoughts that aid completion probably are.

Coppertop

Difficult, maybe. Impossible, no. And the wording certainly does not imply that masturbating while thinking of your wife is wrong.

SecretMethod70

*sigh* literal interpretations of the Bible are, in the majority of cases, silly. That's all I'm gonna say to that.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

fibber

I almost never masturbate against the bible, the leather jacket is too cold and makes me all shrivelly.

-fibbers

World's King

What about jerkin' off onto the Bible?

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

NegativeNine

I'm pretty sure splooging on the bible is an instant ticket to hell.

On the topic of lust being a sin, where in the bible does it say that?

Coppertop

Too true. But tell fundies that.

JumpinJesus

Let me get this straight, it's okay to hump your brother's wife, but you can't hump your hand?

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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

Carno

Reading comprehension is fun and easy! Try it sometime.

Aladdin Sane

There may or may not be words in the Bible condemning masturbation as a sin. I really don't know.
I can tell you that the general philosophy of the New Testament is to deny the self and follow Jesus. His example of self denial was allowing Himself to be executed by crucifixion. Masturbation would be a hinderance to a metaphorical crucifixion of self because it has only one goal-- self pleasure.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

HockeyGuy

<i>MASTURBATION IN ITSELF IS NOT A SIN. You don't have to repent for it. However, if you think about a man/woman (who is not your husband/wife, even if you aren't married yet) while you wank, THAT is a sin. Lusting is a sin, and coveting another person's spouse is a sin, but the Bible says NOTHING about masturbation being a sin.
</i>

I think that this is it. Personally I believe that masturbation is a sin for these reasons and yes it would be incredibly hard..or not (pun..groan...) to masturbate without lustful thoughs of other persons/people.

Drider_it

uh i dont think im wrong on this but i will post a scripture to prove it tomorrow.. but forniciation .. masturbation falls under this guideline i believe..

and from a cristian stand point the only sex you should be having is with a person your married to. no exceptions. any thing else is bad.

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Carno

HockeyGuy - talking to women can lead men to lust over them. Is talking to a woman a sin?

Brooke

What about this....masturbating while thinking of a possible future spose - therefore you wont be adulturing in your mind cause you may marry the person in the future.

For all intents and purposes they dont even need a face really - just sexual organs. and any invention of the imagination is just that - imagination, and not a real person.

__________________
And so its over
Your fantasy life is finally at an end
And the world above is still a brutal place
And the story will start again

Livia Regina

The people in the middle ages did not believe that bodily gratification in any form was wrong. Nor did they say that sex was only to make babies. They had no problem with sex for pleasure as long as it was within marriage. During the middle ages it was illegal for either partner to refuse sex with the other. This was canonical law. Why would a Church that believed bodily gratification was wrong have a law like that? It's true that there had always been ascetic sects who wanted to deny the body to make their spirits stronger but they were on the fringe of Christianity anyway. (These ascetics actually lived on pillars in the desert.) The Cathari are another source of this idea that mediaeval Christians thought bodily gratification was wrong. They believed in two gods. The Good God who made the soul and the Evil God who made the body. The way to achieve salvation was by extreme asceticism. They were known to starve themselves to death and actually believed that procreation was a sin because it trapped good souls in evil bodies. In case anyone missed it, the Cathari were not Christians. They believed in two gods, not one. The Catholic church has always held that the body was a good thing because God became an incarnate man and anyone who says differently is considered a heretic.

SecretMethod70

The idea that masturbation is wrong is, I believe, rooted in Augustine's teachings and general disdain for the corporeal world. Sadly, despite our better judgement as a more universally aware society, Augustine's sentiments have somehow lasted for much longer than was appropriate. Personally, I am much more attracted to the sentiments of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and I believe that, over time, the general concepts he held will gain more and more acceptance at least within Catholicism.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Brooke

I think the morals of masturbation are simple. Everything in moderation. If it is taking over your mind or life- or if you are becomming someone you could not explain to your mother without ruining the relationship(this is for those who dont have psycotic mothers :P) - then it is time to find a healthy center.

Everything in moderation. That means if you drink - moderation. Smoke - moderation. live life? for the most part - moderation....

__________________
And so its over
Your fantasy life is finally at an end
And the world above is still a brutal place
And the story will start again

RolandGilead

Excuse me if I am wrong, but if you masturbate, you`ll always "waste" your "seed", don`t you?!
Therefore it IS a sin to masturbate, unless you carry your cum to the next-best vagina.

waltert

holy shit, ive had a breakthrough....some people say that using contraceptives is EVILE, and a SIN lord jesus amen.

but now....technically, cant sperm be construed as a murder weapon, since its known that complications in childbirth could lead to death. I need to post that in the pharmacists against birth control thread.

but I tell you what...if you're really worried about pissing god off, just get an old 1 gallon pickle jar and jack off into it every time. seal it up tight when you're done, if you want to be proper about things, put in the freezer when you're done.
then...when you do get a wife, (has to be a wife, no girlfriends allowed) go buy a funnel from the local autoparts store. when the new wife asks what the hell you are doing, just tell her that you are obeying god's direct orders, and she will be cast down to hell if she does not comply. now, thats right, funnel that stuff in there. if some falls out, dont worry, just apologize to god and he'll be cool with it.
now....thats intentionally absurd.
that should help put to light how absurd it is to try not to masterbate because of your religion.
if you never ever did it before, you stand a decent chance of being able to hold out, but once you pop, the fun dont stop, and I would argue that you must do it to promote mental stability. not to mention that wet dreams "naturally" eject sperm while you're asleep and if you beleive in god, then you must beleive that he designed you that way, therefore god would promote the disposal of sperm in times of hardship so that you have a fresh supply waiting to leap into action.

sorry if my argument is choppy, its too cold in here to maintain a continuous line of thought.

the moral is: beat it and dont repent, god wants you to.

and EDIT: you guys who posted that you should masturbate on the bible had me on the floor with laughter. I can see it now: "mom, I think you and dad should get me a box of bibles for christmas, the pages on all of my old ones are stuck together."

pinkie

Woo hoo!!!

*runs off to masturbate*

Livia Regina

What about women masturbating? No seed spillage occurs until that special time of month and I've never heard anyone say it was a sin for a woman not to conceive every time she has a viable egg.

CityOfAngels

lust n. 1. Intense, excessive, or unrestrained sexual desire. 2. An overwhelming craving. --v. To have an inordinate desire, esp. sexual desire.

admire v. 1. To regard with wonder and approval. 2. To esteem; respect.

Ah, what many people fail to realize is there is a BIG difference between lust and admiration. Yes, to all those ignorant people out there, there IS a difference between saying, "Holy shit I wanna take her out in the back alley this instant and fuck her brains out," and saying, "Daayyyyum look at the tits on that one!" Seriously; when you look at porn, do you actually DESIRE the porn actresses? I sure don't. I always think, "I wouldn't touch her with my ten foot pole 'cause she's been around the world and back again, but she sure does know how to use her mouth!" Also, yes, there IS a difference between thinking, "I want to fuck her! Yes! I want to fuck her now!" and thinking, "I wonder how great it must feel to get jiggy-wit-her."
People clearly mix up respect with disrespect. Why? Probably because their parents did, too, and taught them that it is the same thing. Well guess what: It's not!
Watch all the porno you want. Believe me; if you actually WANT to have sex with a porn actress, you need to get outside 'cause there are many beautiful women out there who haven't had sex with 999,999,999,999,999,999 men. But if you admire the beauty of a porn actress, and it may even get you turned-on, good for you! And good for her! That's what beauty is supposed to do; to be pleasing to the eye and the senses.

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.

Grumbling*Girl

Well, according to the Skeptics Annotated Bible and the Lego People of Lazarus (er... the Brick Testament) it looks like wee women wenches must wesist wanting to whip out the battery-operated willy....why, why are we wegarded in diss wicked wicked way......

http://www.thebricktestament.com/epi...ns_on_marriage

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...ns_rights.html

CityOfAngels

This is just... WRONG!

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.

WillyPete

Well, £50 is enough for me to ignore the bible and do it for my country.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/s...349407,00.html

waltert

right, women masturbating is a good idea. but dont forget the 11th commandment: Thou shalt not useth 3 fingers or more when pleasuring thyself, lest ye husbands deem ye harlots"

CityOfAngels

Women love it when I use four fingers to pleasure them. Hmmm.

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.