phyzix525

Actually she is 21. That is part of the problem. I don't mind if she wants to go to bars, its just she is slacking in her responsibilities at home and I have to do extra.

She does need to grow up, but she has been so mature in the past, haveing to grow up fast when her mother died and her father went to jail. She has been an adult since she was 13 practicly. She has never had any real friends before and now that there are people giving her attention she never got in high school and she wants to do things that she never was able to do cause she had a kid at 18. I expected this, I really did, but now its worse then I thought.

I sat her down today and told her that she needs to get her priorities straight, or she is going to have to leave. I told her I deserve someone that loves me and likes me for who I am and enjoys spending time with me. I said that if she is not interested in trying to make things work then I am out. We will see if anything changes the next few days.

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

maleficent

This is an incredibly sad story.

Where are the children, and how are they doing? Who's taking care of them?

A break from each other probably wouldn't be a bad idea, where she can get her head together, and you can as well and decide what you want, for each other. The children are so important, but they deserve parents who are happy, not parents who are miserable.

You got married under non-ideal circumstances... If you want this to work, because you truly do love her (her - the person, not the mother of your children) then get into counseling - talk out your problems and decide where you want to go...

__________________

phyzix525

Counsiling is on the top of our list, but unfortunatly the only ones we know of that we could afford (free) at at churches, and there is nothing wrong with that, but I don't want to hear about our marrige won't work if we are not ideal christians, cause I know there are alot of unbelievers that have great marriages. Plus I want someone who studied this kind of thing in school, not just some assistant pastor with nothing else to do.

As for the kids, well they are not really involved. I don't think that they can tell one way or another being as young as they are, but also cause we are not always at each others throats, my friends had no idea that we were having problems and I think they are a bit more observent.

No matter what happens between us the kids will always be taken care of.

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

avhg1

My wife and I went to counseling without insurance. They will usually work out a payment plan with you. I was in a tight spot with money at the time, but it was one of the best investments I ever made. I learned a lot about how to communicate with my wife and the things I was doing that I would never have noticed. It does however need to be a two way street. You can change everything about yourself, but your wife also has to be willing to make changes in herself and want things to work.

Nothing against the church, but I don't think religion is going to be the answer to your problems and I'm not sure that the church counseling is going help.

Prince

I don't think cheating on her with some girl would "wake her up" at all. A lot of people that are cheated on react this way. However it's not about fixing, or healing, or making something better...or waking someone up. It's just about vengeance. Petty, useless, perhaps justified vengeance. So far you've been the mature one in this relationship, I hope you'll continue on that path.

As for these "new guy" things... I think there's a difference between jacking off to downloaded naked pictures of some girls you don't even know, and fantasizing about your co-worker while you're getting off. When your spouse would rather masturbate than have sex with you, this usually suggests there is a problem. While clearly upset, you seem to play her fuck-ups down a bit. You're giving her a chance after a chance after a chance after a chance.

My advice? Talk to a lawyer before she does. Prepare, get ready, gather your ammo. Seriously, it's not funny when it comes right down to it, you better be prepared. Love is wonderful, marriage is lovely, but divorce oftentimes means war. And based on what you've told us so far, I wouldn't trust the children in her care. You or the children do not seem to be her highest priorities right now. Which brings her maturity into question, in my opinion.

Her behaviour is selfish and irresponsible, and at the moment, you are an enabler. She knows that you'll stay home with the kids, she knows you'll foot the bill, you've become reliable, boring, unexciting, flavorless. So take initiative. Show her that you're not one to be fucked with. Things might take a turn for the better, in which case you'll end up with more hand in the relationship, and even if they didn't take a turn for the better, you'd at least be ahead in the game.

__________________
Who is John Galt?

Flyguy

well said....

sailor

Agreed. You sound like you want to try to save it--good, I agree with the counselor route. But be prepared for the worst: from what we've read here, it doesnt sound good. Sorry man...

And don't kid yourself if things end up not working. Try stepping out of your shoes and looking at it from the outside. If it isnt going to work, don't continually try to save it. It sounds like she's already had plenty of chances, dont waste your time giving her tons more.

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

Flyguy

Been a few days....

How's it going with her?

xim

Heres my perspective, can I venture to guess a few things about your relationship?

First, You are probably the type of guy that Deifys his Woman. You like to find someone great and then worship her as if she were a goddess. Although younger than you, she has been in many more relationships and doesn't seem to act like they are all that sacred. You have self confidence issues and are continually greatful to have her. She takes you for granted, like she has relationship-to-spare. To top it all off, she works at a bar where she is constantly reminded by attractive men that she has all the options in the world. (If you were less greatful for your relationship and worked at a place with 20 drunk hot women slapping your ass and inviting you into bed with them how would it affect you?)

You dont fight very much but you always feel like you are having to walk on your tippy toes not to piss her off. She gets mad (or is it upset?) often, and although there are very few harsh words, on those occasions there are very few words at all. You prefer not to fight (most likely because you are uncomfortable with confrontation) and are quick to just swallow your pride and apologize, just to appease her. Its always about her needs not yours, and shes always in control because youd rather just let her have her way than let whatever it is escalate into a fight. You spend alot of your time complimenting her and giving her your approval. She takes this for granted.

In my experience, women want your approval. But if they already have it just handed to them, there is no challange and they eventually get bored with you (If you give your approval away for free it seems worthless). Bringing this back to a childish dating game level, if it was me, I would take this approval away from her for a week or so. Don't compliment her, don't look at her like shes sexy, dont try to make her feel special. It might be really hard to resist doing these things as they seem so natural to you. Don't be mean to her at all, just be indifferent. Show her that she has been taking your attention for granted. When she asks you whats wrong act like you dont know what shes talking about. Set a time limit on this, and even if she trys to rape you before the time limit is up it just means its working, dont give in till your time is up, make up an excuse that you have to clean out the gutters and its really important or something.

I bet you pride yourself on your ability to avoid fighting. But fighting to you means "yelling" and to her it means being cross with each other. I know it seems backwards, but you should not be afraid to yell at her some time if she does something offensive to you. How often does she yell at you? You are allowed to yell at her that much (or even only half that much). This does two things, 1 it shows her that you are strong and its not ok to dick you around and 2 fights are necessary, they are oppurtunities to communicate things that can never be brought up when you are "being nice" to each other. You can just forget about these things because you are a guy, but for her they just steam in her brain if she doesn't get a chance to let them out. So she gets upset and never really gets to express it. When she told you she wanted to seperate, I bet she (if not conciously then subconciously) was trying to get you to fight with her (just once for goodness sakes!) and when you just remained calm and detatched, what did she say? "This is exactly how I thought you would respond"


How far off am I?

__________________
If I could be anyone in the world I would be Britney Spears. Shes in so many commercials about pepsi... www.ximcity.com

phyzix525

Not too far off really. But when I said we don't fight that much, or we hardly fight, I think it was more like "we don't fight much compared to...." I am actually someone who is attracted to conffrontation, I will argue with someone even though I agree with them just to argue. I try not to do that with her and try and keep her calm cause she has a temper. But there have been fights (one) where I told her to get the hell out of my house. Most of our "fights" are much more civilized and yelling is not what happens, more just the I am sick of you and I will just to everything myself look. I hardly ever get upset at her unless she is mad with me.

As for not giving her attention, well thats kinda hard cause I am just a loving guy to begin with. But I think you have a point and I might try it to see how it goes. It does seem like she wants what she cannot have so if I make myself unavaliable to her she may want me more....i dunno.

And as for most recently, well she has been OK, we are getting ready to move and I think that has helped some. She still wants to move out but is willing to wait untill we get counciling.

She told me the other day that she is just mostly depressed and thinks about killing herself sometimes. Which is not the first time I have heard her say this. Before we were married and once or twice when we were.

I think the only thing that will fix this is her figuring out what will make her happy. Its not going to be me or the kids or someone else. It is her and untill she can figure out that she needs healing on the inside, this is going to be the way she feels.

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

phyzix525

UPDATE:

Well things look bad today. We were laying in bed and she said that she was no longer attracted to me. She did not think that she will ever be able to change that. I got up and left, very angry but did not say much.

I drove over to my sisters and talked with her. We had a good discussion and I started feeling better. Realizing that her not being attracted to me is mearly a bi-product of not knowing what love is. She had a terrible childhood and her view of love is construed. So with help she should become aware of how she views love. In turn being attracted to me again. So I drive back home and talk to her about it and she gives me the I i don't want to work on it, I have been wasting my life.....blah blah blah. She did say she would go seek counciling with me, but she said that she doubt it would work. and with that attitude I doubt it would.

So now I feel like it is going to be hard for me to stay nice if we divorce. I just can't believe that after 3 years she would just walk away cause she does not think I am attractive anymore. It would be one thing if I bloated up after we got married, but I have been the exact same the entire time.

So I guess its off to see the divorce lawyers. well in time anyway. we will see how well she takes separation. Maybe in a few months I would be willing to take her back. Not sure.

The thing that hurts the most is that I will not be able to protect her and the kids. If they are no longer here....I can't watch them to make sure they are OK. That, and when I thought about our future, it was always full of happiness and success with her graduating college and getting a good job and I starting a business, kids in school and just living life to the fullest. now those dreams are replaced by what its going to be like seeing her with another man. Or having to tell my children why mommy and daddy are not living together. arrgggh this sucks

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

Schwan

Hang in there, we're with you!

chickentribs

I hate to see a fellow Buckeye go through this crap, phyzix. I know it is small consolation, but you have people out here who have gone through this as well, and we are just wishing the best for you however it plays out. Good luck and feel free to IM me if you just need to rant...

__________________
Oft expectation fails...
and most oft there Where most it promises
- Shakespeare, W.

CityOfAngels

That's pretty chicken-shit of her to try to pinpoint her (possible) infidelity and sudden change of heart on something that you can't change, nor has changed since you married her. If she wasn't attracted to you, then she shouldn't have fucking married you in the first place. Just keep this in mind, buddy: It's NOT you. There's nothing wrong with you; it's HER indecisiveness and lack of care for the lives of other people that got you in this situation. Don't let her make you feel bad about anything. Stay strong.

xim

im really sorry man, i hope this gets better
but no matter what happens, the sun will keep rising and you will survive

__________________
If I could be anyone in the world I would be Britney Spears. Shes in so many commercials about pepsi... www.ximcity.com

phyzix525

I wish it was me, at least I know there would be something I could do about it. right now I just have to sit back and hope that she can accept the advice from councilours and others telling her she has problems that she needs to deal with. If it was just me I could change. I could do something to make her happy.

After we talked today I was very emotional. First time in a few years actually. I just walked into the bathroom and took a shower. Just trying to calm down not wanting my kids to see me that way. I stood there under the water and after a few minutes I thought I had it under control and then I thought about her and someone else. well I ended up punching a hole in the shower. Its fiberglass and it cut the crap out of my knuckle. but it was probably the best thing I could do. all the energy that I had stored up was expelled and I was able to calm down.

I watched some football and I started feeling weird and I thought that I should go talk to her. I walked in and asked her if the whole thing about killing herself was just cause she was upset or if I should really be concerned about it. She told me that she was mostly depressed bacuse she was upset at how much she was hurting me.

As she walked out of the house on her way to work she said that she still thought that moving out was good for now and that she would not see anyone and would not be going out all the time and would go to counciling with me and that after some time hopefully it will work out.

Hopefully this will work out. I will try and keep you all up to date if anything major happens.

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

Flyguy

Hang in there dude....

MmmYummy

Well I just have to put my thoughts in to this...

I went thru two HORRIBLE divorces with my dad and my "mother" and my dad and his Ex wife. None the less it MESSES with the kids no matter what. So maybe bring the kids in to this and try to make her realize that IF a divorce does happen it wouldn't be a good thing for the kids. Im not saying USE them, just make her realize.

With the drinking, and "partying" she NEEDS to realize that booze wont make it all go away, hell it will probably make it worse. Your in the position that you just have to try to make her realize that you love her and she needs to become happy again. I think shes REALLY overwhelmed also. How old are the kids? Could you just work and pay all the bills? Could she wuit school for a while? Maybe just taking care of herself, and the kids would help some. I know that life is hard and overwhelming, most people can take it but some cant.....

Good luck for you and the kids and I hope the Wife comes around....

CityOfAngels

I second that. To an adult, divorce = Maybe new job, new home, loss of a companion, lots of stress. To a child, it goes like this:
Divorce = Confusion, moving, loss of friends, coping with a new environment and a new school, trying to understand why "mommy and daddy don't love each other anymore," dealing with overly-stressed-out parents, wondering which parent you'll have to live with, wondering how often you'll be able to see your other parent (which often leads to animosity against the one you're living with), and so much more. I know; my mom went through multiple marriages when I was a kid, and by the time I graduated high school, I had gone to a total of 8 different schools, starting with elementary school.

phyzix525

If divorce happens I am going to try and make it as simple as possible. we don't have hardly anything after the bankruptcy, so that should not be hard. The kids are not in school yet and we plan on having them a split amount of time per week. Once she finishes up her 2 years here in tulsa she will ether move to OKC or stay and go to TU. Either way she said its up to me if I want to go to OKC if not she will stay. She has to stay in OK in order to get her college paid for free, and she has to be a full time student and use up her money within five years of starting.

This morning she is going to go talk with my sister for a while, we will see if anything comes out of that. She just went through a divorce.

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

adam

That's co-dependency talk; don't beat on yourself that way. It's her issue; you may have to deal with the fallout, but you are not responsible for whether or not she is in love with you.

kutulu

This may be petty and not a core issue in the matter, but do not let her make you assume all the costs of raising the kids (ie don't let her stick you with the day care costs). If she wants to have a life where she can work, go to school and party she needs to split all of the costs of raising the kids 50/50.

Eric640

That's kinda the vibe I get. She's being stupid and eventually shes going to realise it. The question is weather she will be able to admit shes wrong or just go on and keep being stupid.

1) She doesn't tell you where she goes.

2) She leaves you confused and dumps all the responsibilities into your hands like she doesn't care. (How motherly...)

3) She admits to being attracted to other guys she comes into contact with on a daily basis. Atleast she admits it, but that sends mixed signals. She says it casually, almost as if she doesn't care about your reaction to it. She doesn't say it in an I've been bad and want to tell you kind of way.

4) She's in fantasy land. A mother running off to party with her friends while leaving her husband at home. Very juvenile behavior.

5) She doesn't want to fix it. In 6 months she will realise how dumb shes being, but right now, she's blind.


It all comes down to this. Either she's having some sort of midlife crisis and will get over it, or she's done with you and has decided to dump all the responsibility in your arms and run off in search of fun like shes 16.

Give it some time. Tell her you have a problem with how she's acting. See a marrige counselor.

If she won't cooperate or be more reasonable after you've taken some reasonable and compromising steps (I mean you've already gone out of your way to accomodate her behavior)... let the courts make her responsible for her children and go find someone who cares about you.

phyzix525

UPDATE

She talked with my sister the other day. My sister went through almost exactly the same thing and she ended up getting a divorce 11 years into it. Anyway my sister said they had a good talk and that she cried alot. (my wife) (both are named jessica by the way) So when she came home that day it sounded like she was going to put off the moving out. Then last night we were talking on the phone and she asked me how I felt about her moving out on monday. I told her I thought she was making a mistake and she blamed me for trying to manipulate her and change her mind about moving out. Which is stupid, of course I don't want her to leave, but she has to make up her mind what she wants to do, I was just giving my opinion.

So now it looks as if monday she starts the move. The good thing about all this is that she is going to move into her sister's ONE bedroom apartment and is going to have the TWO kids 3-4 days a week. It will drive her nuts in a couple of weeks I am sure.

As for my job, well she is willing to work around it. so thats good.

I will tell ya how things go after monday I guess.

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

Flyguy

You know what? (And this will sound harsh) I say fuck her. Let her move out and try and take care of 2 kids in a one bedroom apartment. She won't last 2 days when it's her turn to have the kids. And when she gets that "party girl" out of her system, gets bored with that lifestyle of doing nothing with your life and she semi grows up a little, I'd tell her to fuck off if she came crying back to me after a while like nothing happened. A little girl (and that's what she is by the way, like you need me to tell you) putting me through all that stress and bullshit just because she's immature and can't grow up?

No thank you.


But again, that's just me.

phyzix525

Yeah the thought has crossed my mind. But in all honesty I would like to see my marraige work, and I will do what I have to to keep it...within reason. Its not like I got a lot of hot prospects right now either. but keeping an eye out though.

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

xim

Dont let people make you feel like a bitch for wanting to keep your marraige. None of us know her.

__________________
If I could be anyone in the world I would be Britney Spears. Shes in so many commercials about pepsi... www.ximcity.com

Flyguy

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying throw away your marriage. But what I am saying is that don't keep giving her chance after chance after chance after chance. Kudos to you for trying to make it work. But she has to put forth some effort too. And from what you've said, it seems like she has no interest in doing so.

denim

Yet. I see her side of this from what phyzix525 has said. I'd probably have doubts too. She needs to work her way through them.

Having two kids in a one br apartment will surely be a problem, but what'll happen as a result, I'm not so sure.

phyzix525

UPDATE:

Well guess what, its only getting better. I was let go today from my job, not fired, but "let go". I sell homes, and the neighborhood that they were planning on putting me in is not going to happpen, so they are not willing to pay my salary if they don't have a place to put me.

My boss was really cool about it though, he is trying to get me on at a few places he knows. He felt really bad. I went in to see him cause I wanted a few days off next week to get my wife packed up and situated. I told him what was going on. Then after all that he was like, well hate to add more to your problems, but we gotta let you go.

Fun Fun Fun

Anyone ever have any luck with Monster or any of the online post your resume things?

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

Averett

I got my job from www.capitalareahelpwanted.com, it's a website that is localized. I noticed 2 for Oklahoma. I believe Broken Arrow is near Tulsa? If so, here's that site: http://tulsahelpwanted.com/home/34.htm?SN=184

Then there's one for Oklahoma City: http://oklahomacityhelpwanted.com/home/73.htm?SN=183

That might be a good place to start, as it's more localized than Monster.

Sorry you're going through such a rough time

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

denim

I forget if it was Monster or Dice that worked most recently for me. If you're a real estate person, you shouldn't have too much trouble, no? Anyway, since you weren't fired, you should have unemployment insurance available, if you're in the US. Good luck!

(edit) Maybe this added item will help your wife get a clue. OTOH, maybe I'm dreaming. :>

phyzix525

UPDATE:

Well she moved out today. Its my first night alone. I am not doing all that great. I drove around trying to find a place to chill out but everything is closed on mondays. The house is a mess and I have hardly anything packed. I may have found a good job but I won't be able to interveiw for it till friday.

She really pissed me off tonight though, she said that she would come over after school and help pack her things and she called me and said that she did not want to come over cause it was late and she had to get up early. Well I already knew that she was going out cause her sister told me she was going to be stuck with the kids tonight cause Jess wanted to "go out and celebrate her freedom" I am thinking about taking the kids away from her cause she is not showing me that she is responsible enough to take care of them. It will be hard work on my part but I think its something that may need to be done to get her to realize that she cannot act like this.

Well thanks for listening, talk to you all laters.

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

adam

Hang in there. Remember children come first.

SecretMethod70

I think this is an EXCELLENT idea personally.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

kutulu

Don't take this the wrong way and maybe I'm interpreting things the wrong way but I think you need to take a stand for yourself here. Moving HER stuff out of the house is HER responisibility. I don't think you should be packing any of her stuff. She should do it on her own AT YOUR CONVENIENCE, not hers. Change the locks on her also.

That's just my reaction. It's probably not that reasonable but the way I would see it is that she is hurting me and I'm going to do my best to give some back.

Regarding the kids, I really hope they get taken care of. It doesn't sound like she can do that right now. She seems to interested in passing them off on her sister so she can have fun. I do think that you should get the kids from her and force her to financially contribute to their expenses. Just cause your the man it doesn't mean you should shoulder all the burden.

Have you talked to a divorce lawyer yet?

adam

Changing the locks is completely reasonable. She doesn't live there or have any rights there any more; she might as well get used to it.

The kids issue is hard to judge from the outside. Just remember that they are your #1 priority and do the best you can... the main goal is to minimize the long-term awfulness of this for them, even if you have to give in to your ex on points where you feel in the right.

Flyguy

Take the kids, man. If she want's to go out and be party girl and "celebrate her freedom" then fuck her, let her go. At least you have the balls to pony up some responsibility, be a man and take care of your kids. Leave the little girl behind. And I'd change the locks on her ass too.

PDOUBLEOP

I'll bet that it won't be long til her sister gets tired of babysitting just so she can party. Where will she go then? Right now she feels independent, when times get tough she'll come crawling back. Will you let her? Personally, I'd feel used.

__________________
ef you-you effing ef

kutulu

The thing is that after she chooses to crawl back you'd know that she's been getting it on with plenty of guys. It's what people do when they are "celebrating their freedom." Will you really want her back after she breaks her marriage vows?