I am getting tired of this being said over and over again...
 

Once a cheater always a cheater.

This is simply not true. How many times in your life have you made a mistake and never repeated it again? I make many mistakes daily that I will not ever make again.

I will say that some people will always be cheaters but not all. I regret to say that I cheated on an ex once but since I made that mistake I have not made it again. I have had opportunities and what not, but I have not taken up on them.

Now it is easy to be cynical about these things, but is it really that hard to see someone learn from their mistakes? I don't think so.

To me, yes it is. If someone cheats, to me they will most likely do it again. My ideals are if you are unhappy in a relationship to the point that you would cheat, you shouldn't be there.

That being said, you are correct in that some people do not do it again, but I would suspect that the majority of people that are willing to cheat once, would be willing to cheat again. It's not something that I'd be easily willing to forgive and forget over.

ruggerp11, I agree wholeheartedly. I cheated on my ex, but after looking back on it I realized it was because I never really loved her. The woman I am currently with I am truly in love with and I could never conceive of cheating on her. I have had many opportunities to do so, if I was so inclined, but I don't. And I realize the predominant reason is out of respect for her and our relationship.

So, I second, death to "once a cheater, always a cheater"

I can't talk about this mythical "most people". Though I suspect that any one individual's estimation of what "most people" would do is way, way off...

I cheated on lurkette in the first year we were together. I was home from college for the summer, it was our first summer apart. I was 18 years old. There was this girl at work who was fun and not bad looking and who liked me. And one night my lonliness and horniness overcame any memory of the promises and commitments I'd made.

Here's the thing: I suffered about that. I thought about it and agonized about it and felt stupid and horrible about it literally every few days for twelve years. And then a few weeks ago, in a course called The Landmark Forum (PM me for more info if you want), I finally saw what that was doing to me and to our relationship, and I came clean to lurkette about it. She forgave me, of course, and in that moment about a thousand pounds of weight came off my shoulders.

Yes, I cheated once. I did. And knowing what I now know about that, there's no way I'd ever do it again.

Does that make it okay though?

I think this should be a case by case basis. But Twice-Three-Four times a cheater... Well, fuck that bastard/bitch. They're just assholes.

Man being that I haven't ever cheated and am prone not to. I just can't back you guys up. But I don't think anyone is saying that if you cheat once you are automatically going to do it again. They are saying once you cheat it gets easier and more likely that you'll do it again. Learning your leason is great and its part of gaining knowleadge. However cheating is just like anything else. The first time is always the hardest, and then it gets easier and easier to do. Granted you may learn you lesson and not do it again, but the likely hood is small.

i dislike almost any saying with all-inclusive words like "always" or "never" because there are exceptions to everything.

you cannot automatically judge someone who's cheated without knowing why they cheated. it's true, there are some people who cheat on their significant other's because they get a thrill out of trying to get away with it.. and these people are more probable to cheat no matter who they're with.

however, i'd like to give the benefit of the doubt to most cheaters and believe they cheated because, like nitrox said, they weren't truly into the relationship or as ratbastid said, they were young and didn't possess the will-power to resist temptation. of course, this doesn't give those people an excuse to cheat... but the point is that they realized it was wrong and know the consequences and pain it caused to them and their loved one, which actually makes them less likely to cheat ever again.

"They are saying once you cheat it gets easier and more likely that you'll do it again"

who the hell is "they", because I'll tell you what, having done it before sure as hell doesn't mean it would be easier. It has actually made me more scared and repulsed by it.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Sorry, but I have been burnt too many timesa by women who said they have cheated in the past, then say they would never do it to me, then end up doing it to me anyway. Sure, not all cheaters are going to do it again, but I have learned that there is a large portion of people who will.

I've haven't tried to make a U-Turn on the highway without slowing down all the way again..... only made THAT mistake once.

So, who's to say. Some people DO only make certain mistakes once.

However, I think it depends on the type of situation. Rarely do I think "cheating" is done from what could be called an accident. I think it takes the form of someone making a conscious decision to do so.

Now, the reason someone might do so could be one of thousands and that reasoning once addressed might resolve why they cheated in the first place and prevent them from doing so again.

I am what many call a cheater. My fiancee and I were in a horrible situation, we were fighting all the time and things weren't going well in our relationship. Not to soon before, her and I had a foursome with another couple who were our good friends. I think there was some resentment on my part for my actions, because I couldn't believe that she'd actually gone through with it. Also at that stage in my life, I wasn't totally ok with myself. So anyway, I took part in threesome with said couple without her. From the moment after it happened I felt like complete and utter shit. I completely hated myself because I thought that I would have just thrown away the best thing that had happened to me. So I kept that inside myself for over a year in which I hated myself so eventually I tell her to which I feel better for telling her, but I still felt horrible about it. Thankfully she forgave me, but I had much to do afterwards to regain the trust that I had broken. To this day, I still regret that whole incident and if a thought ever enters my mind about cheating on her, I remember what happened and how I felt about it with myself and after telling her how about it how I felt then also. So in my opinion, you can't paint a picture of every "cheater" as a person who will do it again. And yes, I do get sick of hearing that saying. I also think it's interesting how "cheaters" seem to understand that they won't do it again but not many other people seem willing to accept that. Before you judge me, walk a mile in my shoes to see how it feels to be me and I bet it could change your perception.

Edit: Fixed a grammatical error

fallon, well said

I have a good friend right now, who I'm having a hard time with. She's been in a relationship with another really good friend (a person I would give a kidney to in a heartbeat) for several years. This couple was happy. But they've also been on an emotional roller coaster for the past two years, she's been his major source of support and always has been there for him.

However, she's also had a tough time being honest with him, and how she's been feeling thru this roller coaster. She's kept up the happy face for him, but inside she was being ripped apart. So, she made, what she calls a huge mistake. I think it's worse than that, but she's a friend, so I'm supportive as I can be. She cheated on him and got caught.

He is absolutely devestated, this was the final straw in a few years of hell that he didn't need. The one person who he expected would always be there for him, went and did that to him? Yes, she's sorry. Yes, she'll never cheat again. I seriously doubt he'll ever trust her again, and in that one act, brought on by her not being honest with her feelings, she destroyed a great relationship, that is dying a slow death.

I hate her for the devestation that she has caused my friend. I don't hate her completely because I can understand the place that she was in when she cheated, it just kind of happened, it wasn't intentional and she is still a friend. I feel bad for the situation that they are in, and knowing that these two good people are just over.

Once a cheater always a cheater? Depends on the person. Once cheated on, can that trust ever come back like it was before the cheating? You'd have to be pretty naive to think it would. I doubt I could trust that person again.

Edited because I can no longer get out complete thoughts...

Hell, at least a person who admits they cheat *but wont again?* is semi honest. i am more wary of those who said they would never for any reason cheat on the person they are with.

Is it just me who was confused?

edit: fixing quotes

I confuse myself a lot too... my head is a frightening... But basic gist, hate the sin, not the sinner is where I was going....

I found this comment interesting because this is on both sides if your the one who cheated on someone else why should we walk in your shoes. It seems to me that most of the time the one who was cheated on is the victim. Imagine how that person felt when he/she found out that the person they put a lof of trust in broke that trust, and pretty much took you for granted. So this saying probably started out of spite, but for all you cheaters out there, can you walk a mile in our shoes and expect nothing less then a lot of anger and mistrust. To be honest I really hope I never have to walk in your shoes, and I hope you never have to walk in mine. The pain that it causes is way worse then the guilt that you guys feel. Plus once you are honest and truthful you get to let all that guilt go. But the person cheated on still has to live with it and possibly start felling the jealousy and doubt, that offten occurs after someone is cheats on you. So really what I am saying is take your own advice and walk in my shoes see how it feels to be me and I bet your perception will change.

Speaking for myself - Ummm . . .yes, I can.

I'll tell you what, I apprecaiate every response that has been written. you all contributed very very well. Thank you.

As for the subject, I would say that after cheating once It makes it harder to do again. I would have an evern harder time cheating after the internal torrment that I put my self through. Though I would agree that it is a case by case basis. All points are valid because they come from our own experience.

Cheers people.

Can we get the perspective from some of the people cheated on? I have never been cheated on so I don't know but I feel that its an important perspective to bring in.

This is the stigma that is attached with cheating... Everyone has the potential to cheat, and once you've stepped over the line the potential to do it again seems much greater.

If you don't want that stigma, then you should either not cheat or make amends with yourself. None of this has anything to do with convincing others... if you truly don't like being labelled a cheater, then do everything you possibly can to never cheat again (which is something that everyone can do with determination).

I don't think you need our support or faith in this matter. This is a disadvantage that you've built for yourself.

I won't say that there is no hope for people to stop cheating once they start, but it is indicative of being able to cross over an ethical/moral boundary. Cheating is usually rationalized in some manner to make it easier to cope with without feeling excessive guilt. I think cheating is the perfect situation for someone to feel guilt from. Hiding from that feeling makes the behavior more likely to occur again.

In any event, once you have cheated that will always stay with you, and in that sense you truly will always be a cheater whether you ever cheat again or not. It is up to you to then, after the fact, determine for yourself what that event means for you.

Interesting topic....

I am pretty new here, but I think I could add to this discussion. I am currently in a relationship where my girlfriend cheated on me. It puts the cheated person in a huge dilema. Do you forgive this person that cheated on you? Now knowing they are capable of it. I personally do not know that answer as of yet. I see forgiveness as an ongoing process. One which I have decided to follow. However, I highly doubt that I will be nieve enough to think she could not do it to me again.

I think one thing that is missed here... The cheated did not cause the act. Only the cheater did. It boils down to something inside the person to run off on their significant other.

My 2 cents that are a wreck because of infidelity.

Maybe they won't cheat on the next person they get with if they've learned their lesson and actually experienced some guilt... but if they cheat on you and you forgive them it is likely they will cheat on you again because you have tacitly told them it's okay if they disrespect you because you'll always forgive and forget.

Your integrity is something that nobody can take away from you. Once you lose it, it is gone, usually forever.

Cheaters should drown themselves.

There are many people who would love the opportunity to have a faithful relationship with the person you're cheating on, but will never get that chance, for one reason or another. Stop being so fucking selfish and treat people the way you want to be treated.

i can see what you are saying here...but i will have to say that if you have cheated on someone who you are TRUELY in love with, well you will most likely do it again. it takes a weak mind to cheat....and if you are that weak to cheat on someone you honestly love, then you are that weak to do it again.

i can say though that if you are not in love with the person and you cheat on them, you will probably cheat on that person again.....or if you are with another person that you dont love, you'll probably do it to them too.

So, we apparently get over the guilt? Rriigghhtt...reread my post, I do believe that I said i still feel remorse and guilt from the act even though it's been almost two years since I told her. I'll try to reword it so that it doesn't appear that I'm the victim, which I doubt will work, but I accept all the punishment I have recieved from my S.O. for my stupid and disgusting behavior but not everyone is the same. Due to this negative event in my life, I would say it has changed me for the positive because I now am commited to her more then ever because she accepts me as a human being, who makes REALLY bad mistakes which I won't make again.

I've stood on the line of watching friends cheat on S.O.'s before, I was actually a person before this whole act that I commited so I do know what you are talking about and I have walked in shoes that I believe are similiar to your own.

Timalkin, I'm going to disregard parts of your post because I find them disrespectful to myself and others who have decided to let you in on something that we didn't have to. As for your other part of your message. You don't think that went through my mind after it? I constantly have thoughts about she deserves someone better because of my past.

asudevil, so once a weak mind, always a weak mind? Or once stupid, always stupid?
I've built myself up from what I used to be with help from her and learning more to respect myself. This still doesn't get rid of some of the self-loathing but it helps a great deal and it helps me to keep myself in line.

doncalypso, My fiancee forgave me not to shortly after I admitted what I had done to her. There were still other issues that had to be worked out, and bridges to rebuild, trust to be remade, but she forgave me. Was this a green flag to me that I could go out and do it again? No.
From the day I told her, I've been completely faithful to her.

So again, as much as some want to claim otherwise, walk in my shoes before you decide to make a judgement against or for me.

I also would just like to point out to others that we didn't have to say a damn word, and I knew I shouldn't have opened my mouth when I hit the submit button the first time, so please respect that we pulled back a little bit of the internet veil on ourselves. And no insult you can say to me will compare to the self-degradation I have put upon myself. Even though I have done all that to myself, keep in mind that some people who tell their stories though are actual people who do actually have an emotion or two. Even though you may not like what I've done, please respect me and others enough to at least not be an ass and claim we should be shot/killed/butchered/maimed/kill ourselves/etc, because I try to not be a total ass to you.

Fallon,

Thank you for putting your words out there. I can only hope that my girlfriend feels the same way and wishes to be what you have stated.

Again thank you.

My personal experience with someone who cheated on me makes me severely biased against anyone who cheats. After repeatedly cheating on me and getting caught we played the make up game where i whole-heartedly forgave her. With promises and "love" she felled my walls of hate/fear/insecurities. This lasted a good while, or so i thought. In my particular case, once a cheater always a cheater was true. I find people later who tell me the reasons of why she did it; because she was high/drunk and i wasnt around. Consider this as my first love, and most likely the last time i will ever tell someone "i love you"

You know, as inflammatory of a post as this is, I agree with him. Quit being selfish and trying to get it all. You people make me sick. You same cheating fuckers are more responsible for emotionally scarring people than any other group in existance. But... before you report my post to moderators, read my next paragraph.

Fallon, I am not directing this towards you, or anyone else in this thread. I have strong feelings against cheaters... but I say these things with the greateast amount of sensitivity possible... my own brother was a cheater. In the worst way possible, and his life was ruined when he was found out. His guilt consumed him.

But even the serial cheaters will agree that it is better to not cheat and not have remorse than cheat and have remorse. This should be self explanatory. If one person, somewhere, reads a post like timalkins , or yours Fallon, and says "Damn. Maybe I should think this over before calling him/her up.... ", then it is all worthwhile.

But not everyone responds to the same style of writing. Fallon can talk about regret , and someone might counter "Well, at least you've tried it, I'll go ahead" and timalkin could talk about being a piece of shit for cheating, and someone could dismiss his argument as being "pathetic and bitter". But someone could also agree with one of you... I've seen no pro-cheating posts in this thread so far...

Not to kick the proverbial dead horse, but I have to weigh back in on this. Everything here is directed at the motivation of the cheater, yet makes the presumption that the one cheated on was at home living a saintly life. While this may be true in certain instances, it was far from this in mine. Sexuality has always been a very big part of my life, and the sex life I enjoyed with my ex stopped (please let me repeat this, stopped) when we got married. I was in the marriage for over four years, trying to make it work, before I strayed. Let me give you an idea of the relationship at that point:

We slept in separate bedrooms, she spent every available moment at her mom's house, she wouldn't go on vacation because she didn't want to be away from her mom (hell, I went as far as planning a surprise trip to Vegas for an extended weekend, and she refused to go).

In short, we were living two separate lives. Was all of this an excuse to cheat. No it wasn't. Did it create a scenario where someone was dying for human affection and interaction, yes it did. And I slipped and fell for it.

So BooRadley, before you lump me into the group of

"You same cheating fuckers are more responsible for emotionally scarring people than any other group in existance"

I would throw it back at you and ask you if four years of emotionless union can not in and of itself also be somewhat emotionally scarring?

I had a few paragraphs all typed up about this but decided to replace it with just this to prevent an echo effect:

To cheat signifies a fault of personal character on the cheater's behalf, one that takes much work and learning to correct. To blame your cheating on your SO or the person you cheated with is the highest form of cowardice.

"To cheat signifies a fault of personal character on the cheater's behalf, one that takes much work and learning to correct. To blame your cheating on your SO or the person you cheated with is the highest form of cowardice.

Ah, we are having problems with our short term memory I see.

If one goes back to my original post, I never pushed blame on anyone but myself. I merely got sick and tired of everyone on their high horses attacking those of us that stepped forward and admitted that we had cheated. If I was a coward, I never would have posted.

I merely wanted to point out that those of you who feel worthy of dishing out judgement from your thrones might do well to realize that there are always two parties in a relationship when this happens.

Would your morality play suffer a set back for me to tell you that my ex-wife posed naked for an old artist friend of hers, after which, from what I know, only making out and a little groping took place. And yes this happened before anything happened with me, and after she had decided that sex between us was no longer a priority.

I could have said, yay, now I'm justified. But I didn't, I accepted full blame, and said due to the destructive force of that event, I would never do that again.

Also, what university did you get your degree in that allows you to point out that I have (or had) a fault in my personal character that needs to be dealt with. It is a comment like that that leads me to believe that you yourself have a personal fault that you can so easily pass judgement on those you don't know.

Just some random thoughts.

Good day

A shitty way to say it,but I couldn't say it better myself.

Once you hold someones heart in your hands and you smash it,even on accident,it is assumed that you will do it again.

Boy, good thing you people weren't around when Hawthorne was pitching his novel:

"Hester walked outside, emblazoned with the scarlet A, and was immediately stoned to death by the crowd"

I wouldn't have even needed the Cliff Notes version for that one.

Just because in your case it was justified ( I believe that it was a clear-cut case for you... ) doesn't mean that infidelity is somehow not the worst problem facing couples today....

I do not believe doing anything in a relationship that is hurtful can be justified. However I can understand what might lead up to an affair.

As for something wrong with the person who does cheat, I totally agree with. Especially when they see it as justified. You are only brining yourself and your spouse down. It may be painful to end a relationship but to continue on and then cheat is uncalled for.

If it is about passing judgement onto others for their infidelity, then I gladly claim to have a degree in relationships.

Besides what you have told us, I don't know the extenuating circumstances that would lead you to cheat. If the marraige was that bad, why not get out of it? IMO, the institution of marraige is sacred between two people. If that institution is no longer valid, then move on to greener pastures. I know you accept full responsibility for your actions which is not cowardly, but the fact remains, you still cheated.


Good day.

"but the fact remains, you still cheated. "

No shit Sherlock, I admitted it

***shaking head back and forth***

That is the truth right there. We all have choices and you cheaters made your choice. You could have done the right thing which would have been to end your relationships and move on. Then you can sleep with or do whatever with who ever you want. But to cheat is just wrong. You made that choice. No one made it for you it wasn't forced on you, you made a choice. I honestly think that in order to not cheat you have to have been cheated on. Once you experience that there is no way you would want to put another person though that. But I still don't think these people should be shot or anything I think thats wrong to they are still people and most people do deserve a second shot, but I do think that if it happened to them. Not to a friend a brother or someone close to them, but to them, then they would understand why people are saying the things they are saying.

"but I do think that if it happened to them. Not to a friend a brother or someone close to them, but to them, then they would understand why people are saying the things they are saying."

sigh, by the way, just for the record, it did happen to me.....

"you cheaters"

Anyone want to start a club? We might as well since it appears that we now represent a subset of society

Lol Nitrox you sound like a good guy and I think a lot of people on here are. So you say you been cheated on before so you know the pain from both sides. I think you are one of the few that this saying doesn't apply to. The only reason I say this is because you know the pain it is to be cheated on and to cheat. So you honestly probably won't do it again. Now there are a lot of other people out there who don't know the flip side of the coin and to them I do say once a cheater always a cheater. However, there isn't a general statement out there that doesn't have its execptions. So you gotta give people the benefit of the doubt but thats life I guess.

Hey the club thing is a good idea but would probably be to big.

You the president Nitrox or am I?

And I do think that I can easily say now that I won't cheat again because I know the pain it caused myself. Thoughts of suicide(much to many peoples apparent approval thus far) were daily occurances for me. Thankfully that's not the case anymore.
I think the pain that I felt taught me to not let it happen again because of the pain I put myself through and added pain that I put her through. So in my case, my pain was two-fold that was brought on by my own actions which in itself added even more pain to the fold.

It's interesting how some though are saying marriage is sacred, yet you're saying if it's not there, break that sacred bond. I had always thought divorce in Nitrox's case was maybe a little bit less worse then cheating. Case in point, catholics are no longer allowed to recieve communion if they get a divorce.

I'm thinking we could probably treat it like an oligarchy.

Hey, and Fallon, your comment about thoughts of suicide? I can appreciate that. They usually only hit in the wee hours of the morning, but it felt like things were so out of control and there was no way to stop the out-of-control railroad that was my life at that point.

It didn't help that right after everything came out, I lost my job so I didn't even have that as a distraction.

And it's funny how you mention divorce and the Catholic Church. My wife is (was) Catholic and they effectively told her she was no longer welcome in the church if she married me. Nice to have a forgiving God, eh?

Great Dow, there's a lot of poison in this thread. As a person who has been cheated on, more than once, I can honestly say that I think some of you are making way too big a deal, or at least a lot of the nastiness is uncalled for. The sweeping generalizations don't really cut it - it depends on the person and their emotional state at the time. In my opinion, when a person cheats in a relationship, it's a clear sign that the relationship is in trouble, obviously. But if you were paying attention, then you already knew that before you found out the other person cheated, and frankly - the worst part of the pain in finding out that you've been cheated on is the realization that you can't lie to yourself any more. The relationship really was in trouble, even if you didn't want to admit it.

I'm not excusing the actions of people who have cheated, but I would also say that we're all only human, and we all do things that we later regret or wish we had done differently, and that's part of learning. I would say that the phrase that started this whole thing, probably is more accurate for a short period of time. A person who is in an emotional state and relationship in which they are unfaithful is probably more likely to cheat, until they've had the time to (potentially) learn from what happened and realize that coming clean almost always is easier in the long run. However, I know too many people who have changed as they've grown older and matured to say that you can place that kind of stigma on people for their lives. Furthermore, the more of that attitude that you profess with such vehemence, the less likely you are to find out the truth about your significant others past and / or if they're cheating on you now.

Additionly, I would like to add that cheating on your SO is a moral transgression, but not the only moral transgression. Before one starts making sweeping moral statements and castigating people who have cheated before so strongly, I'd make sure that you're morally perfect. Glass houses and stones. For example, in the relationships where my girlfriend has cheated on me, while I don't approve of the way they handled their situations, I can honestly say that I was not a perfect boyfriend, either. I did things that I knew weren't going to make my girlfriend happy. Does that make what she did morally justified? Well, no, not really, but then again I honestly think they were reacting to a situation in the best way they knew at the time.

That was a great post, pigglet, and if you didn't read it all or skimmed it, go back and read it all. Yeah, it's that good.

I picked from your post what I think is most important. People stray when the relationship is already broken. So you have to ask, is it imprtant enough to fix? It might be, but it might not be.

I won't bother to defend myself because frankly the only opinions that matter in regards to my situation are mine and my exs. I will say my reasons for the 2 times it happened were anger and apathy, respectively. First time, I was just so pissed, I did as I pleased. Second time, it was only cheating cause I did it the week before I broke up with her instead of after.

I felt bad about it the first time, because well I felt bad about everything in our relationship. Was it the wrong way to handle problems in our relationship... well duh, but it was the path I took.
Second, I just didn't care about the relationship. The only reason I was still in the relationship was because I promised to wait until a specific date, so I did.

As for the go drown myself comments...
Fuck you

I'm glad your world is so simple, that every choice you make is the right one and you are always the person wronged. For some of us, the shit flies both ways and bad choices are made.

IMO, people can change, but it takes alot of work to build trust again.....

Great post pigglet. I couldn't have said it better myself. I also feel that there is a lot of unresolved anger and pointless provocation in this thread. A lot of people need to read your post, then go and do some thinking.

I came to the same conclusion reading the cheating thread in the Ladies Lounge. The comments of "he left me for a girl who is much lower than me" especially caught my attention.

Pigglet, thanks for adding some balanced common sense to this discussion

What is the definition of 'cheating'. Is it just defined as having sex with someone other than your SO with out your SO's permission? Or is it more than sex that could be considered cheating? I think it is. I think 'cheating' comes in many forms in our relationships. When a person is 'cheated' on sexually, it is a breaking of some kind of intimacy bond and expectation that the person cheated on had for that relationship. If a couple was in a relationship where it was made clear that they could have sex outside the relationship then it would not be 'cheating' to do so. We all have expectations and needs in relationships and so often our SO's, intentionally or not, hurt us by breaking those expectionations and not fulfilling those needs. If our SO knows that we have a need or an expectation in a relationship and continues not to fulfill that if he/she is capable of doing so, isn't that 'cheating'? And if your SO knows that they are not fulfilling something you need when he/she is able, wouldn't the loving thing to do be to allow you to fulfill that need somewhere else?

Take Nitrox's case for example. He had a need (like we all do) for sexual intimacy. Sounds like his SO knew this as he told her over and over again and yet she continued to deny him this need in his life. Wouldn't you say that she was 'cheating' on him with her mom because she was taking away the intimacy and bond of thier relationship in place of time with her mom? Wasn't it unloving of her to know that he had this need, which she could fulfill, but refused to fulfill, and yet continue to deny him some other way to fulfill it? And honestly, how did she have any right to demand he keep that part of thier relationship between just them, when she had proven for 4 years she didn't want that part of thier relationship?

I don't say any of that to justify sexual cheating, but we should make clear that we can cheat our SO's in so many other ways that are just as hurtful, but are not defined as 'cheating'. Along the same lines as what Pigglet said, a relationship is two sided and in all likely hood both sides are responsible for breaking it to the point where one sexually cheats. There is no justification for hurting each other, however it may be. All we have is mercy and forgiveness. And we should all take a look at ourselves with humility and realize we need as much mercy and forgiveness as anyone else.

"I also think it's interesting how "cheaters" seem to understand that they won't do it again but not many other people seem willing to accept that. Before you judge me, walk a mile in my shoes to see how it feels to be me and I bet it could change your perception."

Yep. Well said.

reading this thread made me relive all the things I have been dealing with for the past few months.

cheating is anything that involves getting anything outside of the relationship that is not warranted. ie Sex/emotions/any type of intimacy.

I am living through a hell I couldn't even imagine or wish upon my worst enemy before this started.

I cheated on someone I truely cared about with a girl I beleived was my true love. ( I understand most will not think of this as a possibility.)

I wake up thinking of how I hurt someone I truely had a great relationship with. I think through the day how I hurt so many people around me and her. I hold all the guilt and anger that she would have in me. While carrying my own guilt and pain, for what I have done.

Ontop of this after the break up I was with the girl I cheated with. I wanted it to be something. I wanted so much for this not to be a cheating for nothing situation.
I wanted her to understand that I am not the type who would say all the things I said for nothing. I do not feel she was a "mistake" or "the other woman"
I am now filled with hurt for she has now left me. The pain of that doubles with every day as I can't seem to put anthing in order to understand. I can't seem to think straight.

Once a cheater always a cheater?
After living in this hell for awhile I can say if I ever get out of it I don't ever want to return to it. Nothing is worth this torrment. I fight a depression as I hold all the hurt for me and them in me. I hold all the pain and guilt of the whole situation.

You want to judge me fine. I can tell you though you can say nothing more to me than I think I deserve. I deserve all the pain and hurt. I derserve all the feelings I am feeling. I want to get out this hell but not before I cut myself deep with this to ensure that I and no one around me ever has to deal with this side of me.

I swear to myself because I am the one who has to be here in my soul all my own days. That I will NEVER want to come back to this. IF I can ever get out.

Well said and you aren't alone in your pain.

"Well said and you aren't alone in your pain."

Agreed....

I have come very close to cheating, but didn't. Why? I still cared enough about the relationship not to do it. Now? I know I could cheat, due to the horrible deterioration of the relationship that has happened over the years. Most of the reason I stay with her is our kid, and the fact I have not the funds to start a new life. I'm not happy with her but I just can't "get out" like everyone says is so easy. Most of my unhappiness is obviously sexual, and if someone offered to make me feel desired then you're damn right I'll cheat. I will say if I was in love with someone I couldn't cheat on them for anything.

I hate to see people say...if the marriage/relationship is bad just get out of it...like you can just walk out the door and never look back....if these "relationships" were that easy...my guess is a lot of cheating wouldnt happen

I happen to be a believer that just BECAUSE the cheating happened once..there is every possiblity it wont happen again

just my two cents

I don't have any sympathy for cheaters. You feel bad about it? Like you deserve an award for that? :rolleyes: You SHOULD feel bad, you did something wrong. It's just too bad that your humanity kicked in an orgasm too late.

--The following is based on the assumption that "relationship" refers to a real connection, not some fling that's been going on for 3 months--

No matter how bad your relationship was, you really upped the ante by actually going out and nailing somebody else (in 99% of the cases). I suppose that, if I could be objective about this, I would say that, if your partner and you can get over it, great, but asking for "understanding" is just beyond the pale. As well ask us to sympathize with the murderer as much as the murdered.

As far as retiring the phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater," I propose the opposite- I think the phrase should be embossed on the front of every public building, as well as any place where one can get married. Unless you're old, or have a child, or something out of this world with the other person, there's no reason to stick with someone who cheats on you. Life's too short to stay with someone who has pretty well betrayed your love in the lowest way possible. It doesn't matter how bad you feel, it's unreasonable to ask or expect that you can be trusted again.

As a general statement, God damned right. :icare:

My My My, I didn't mean for this thread to degenerate like it seems to be headed, alas I should have known with such a topic. A topic that is securely fastened to deep seated emotions on both sides.

I would ask though, to those who can't see change. Did your experiences really create such an apatthetic look upon society that you cannot accept that humans mistake and at the same time change?

People can change, we have seen it happen. This fact is compunded if/when the cheater really feels the weight of his/her actions through the actions of the poeple around them. If the consequences are severe enough they can only help a person see the change needed in their lives.

How can you determine if someone really is going to change?

How can you put your trust in someone who shown you that they're willing to violate your trust?

The potential to change doesn't always (or usually, in my experience) translate into change. I haven't heard much of a reason in these threads for someone to have a renewal of faith in someone who's cheated on them.

Why should those has been cheated on take the responsibility to show cheaters "the light" about the evils of their ways and work to help them? How do you measure the upside of that and the necessity to protect one's self from emotional harm?

How does apathy have anything to do with this? You make it sound as if it is easy for people to dump cheaters, when that is almost always not the case even for repeat offenders. It is so hard to walk away, and it gets harder as time passes.

Sure people change, and they should change, but many don't. The truth is that by accepting a cheater back in your life you are, in essense, enabling the cheater to continue to cheat. The message is - it is ok, in the end it all works out. I don't know what kind of real consequences you could give to cheaters that says "this is wrong, I won't allow you to hurt me like this" while at the same time keeping them close-at-hand.

I have found that it is much easier to forgive someone after I have let go of them and removed all sense of responsibility of them from my life. It isn't exactly the most romantic approach, but it is a realistic measure.

Cheating creates a major ethical and moral issue for the person who has been cheated on. And these decisions and questions that arise are very unfair, perhaps, in fact, the most unfair part of being cheated on.

[edit: damnit, this was supposed to be wilbjammin again]

Do I expect anything from you? Yes, I expect you to be respectful of myself as I am to you. I don't go around claiming that you should go kill yourself because what you've done in your past offends me. Do I expect anything else from you? No. I spoke my opinion in the hopes that people would be willing to look at it and understand that not every person is the same. I was not trying to get you understand why a person cheats, I was telling you about my experience with it. I guess I might also be guilty for trying to stick up for a group of people that I am a part of in the hopes that we wouldn't get comments that tell us that we should be dead because someone would actually THINK before they posted something. And much against my desires, I will not respond in the way that I wish because I do not feel that it'd help the discussion.

This is not a black and white subject which many people seem to believe it is.

My girlfriend before my fiancee was a very flirty girl. Depending on a persons interpretation of what cheating is, she would be guilty of it on most except up to the point of sleeping with this other kid. I understand the reluctance of people who do not want to go out with someone who has cheated on them or someone else in the past. Within a month of going out with my fiancee she shared a passionate kiss with her ex-boyfriend. This was less then a month into the relationship, yet I forgave her.

So by defination, according to some, she should go drown because she cheated on me. I should drop her like quicker then you can say hello. Plain and simple. Right?

Now that is complete and utter bullshit.
If you actually thought about it and got the whole story you'd realize that there was more to it. This gentleman that she kissed was her past boyfriend(red flag for some, yes. It was for me, but I got past that). Their kiss, although uncalled for, was not initiated by her but she didn't totally resist it(moot point basically, he started, she didn't stop, I brought this up with our talk about it). It was a goodbye kiss between the two of them because they still had a few unresolved issues.
Did this piss me off? You're damn right it did.
How did I know that it was a goodbye kiss? I looked past her words and tried to understand her intentions. I watched her cry and beg for forgiveness. I took ALL of that in, and forgave her because I believed her. Had I just thrown it all out then I would have lost out on some of my better years.

Edit: Fixed a typo and made something a bit more clear.

How can you determine if someone really is going to change?
I believe it should be based on their actions and what they say. If you don't feel the sincerity of what they say and or you doubt that they truthfully mean it

How can you put your trust in someone who shown you that they're willing to violate your trust?
I can't answer for you, but like I said, I based it upon actions and words. More-so based on their actions.

The potential to change doesn't always (or usually, in my experience) translate into change. I haven't heard much of a reason in these threads for someone to have a renewal of faith in someone who's cheated on them.
I'm sorry I can't translate all of the events regarding what I did to show that I changed but their is a significant difference from myself now, and three years ago. Regretfully, you'll either have to take my word for it or throw it out like others have. My whole attitude regarding my relationship with her has changed and we came out of it a bit more tattered then we should have, but we came out of it and we're still happily together and it opened our communication greatly.

Sure people change, and they should change, but many don't. The truth is that by accepting a cheater back in your life you are, in essense, enabling the cheater to continue to cheat. The message is - it is ok, in the end it all works out. I don't know what kind of real consequences you could give to cheaters that says "this is wrong, I won't allow you to hurt me like this" while at the same time keeping them close-at-hand.
If my understanding of what you said is that it basically says that they can do it again and again, I have to disagree. Look at my posts, look at Nitrox's posts, look at Kazic's post. Her forgiving me has not given me the greenlight to go ahead and cheat on her again and again and again.

It always bothered me how some people see cheating as just a 'mistake'. It's a lot worse than that; it's a betrayal. And in my opinion, it's something can't be forgiven.

It really pisses me off when cheaters try to act like victims. If they were unhappy in the relationship, they can try to fix things or just end the relationship. Going behind the back of their SO and betraying makes them cowards.

I've been cheated on once. Because of that, I have huge trust issues now. There's no way I'll ever be able to forget the feeling of being stabbed in the back by the person that I loved.. That's not fair, I just didn't deserve that.

In my opinion, a person that cheated once is just as low as a person that cheats many times. Screw cheaters.

I give up, congratulations.
I am scum, excuse me while I go wallow in my own self-pity because I feel no remorse for ANY of my cheating ways. Anyone know of a lake I can drown myself in? Because apparently that's what I should be doing. Or off screwing myself because I'm such an evil person. I am lower then dirt blah blah blah.
Give me a break.

"Screw cheaters"

I agree, and while were at it, screw hypocrites, screw people who believe in religion, screw atheists, screw vegetarians, screw Microsoft employees, and especially screw that crazy guy who is always talking to himself downtown.

Fallon, can't you hear how selfish you sound? You went and did this thing, but you WANT us, practically DEMAND of us, the relative community at large, to commiserate with you? Sure, you hurt somebody, but think of your feelings? Think of how much this hurts the cheater as well as the cheated? How dare you? Seriously, where do you or any other cheater get off trying to compare how bad you feel to how bad the person that gets cheated on feels?

My favorite things is where various cheaters have posted that they weren't in a good situation, that the other person wasn't perfect either, and that, come on, dressed like that, at that time of night, in that neighborhood, she was just begging for it.

Grow up. You did a truly awful thing. Stop asking for forgiveness, you don't deserve it. Not that the balance of your life couldn't still qualify you as a good person, but that mark will always be there. Live with it, don't do it again, stop whining about how everyone looks down on you for it, and just move on.

And in all seriousness, did you truly expect people who don't cheat and have been cheated on to even WANT to empathize with you? Unreal.

I don't demand you commiserate, I ask you not to be an ass and claim that me killing myself is the best thing that I should do. I ask you to look more into a situation because not everything is black and white.

But, since I'm a lesser person then you, I bow to your will.
*goes off to find a river to go drown himself in or a knife to kill himself with*

Shades, I beg to differ on your take on this. I added my commentary not to "beg for foregiveness". I don't need yours or any others foregiveness. I merely added my thoughts to show a different side of this.

Whether you choose to tell me go drown myself or rattle off on some other diatribe is your choice. It doesn't affect how I will spend my day or how I will feel about myself.

It's funny how christianity will say foregive the sinner but not the sin, yet we have people here professing that we, the cheaters, should be shot, drowned, or tarred and feathered.

I never once began this thread thinking that foregiveness was being sought. Rather, that the label "once a cheater, always a cheater" was an untrue statement. I chimed in to say, "Yeah, I agree. People can change".

But lo and behold, the people claiming that they had been cheated on voiced up and said that this was an untrue statement.

Given that, I ask you, how the hell can you state that, when you were never in the situation to know that.

speaking as the person that was cheated on here....

That statement right there bothers me more than ANY other statement thats been made..even the "you should be dead" posts.

Why exactly doesnt this person deserve forgiveness?

I don't understand why someone would come to a message board asking for forgiveness. And, I don't think they are asking for it here.

What is interesting is the passive-aggressive self-martyrdom tact that is being taken. If you disagree with someone, you should be able to do that without it being a personal attack, or being overly-defensive.

My main point still is that cheating puts the person on in a major moral and ethical dilemma. It isn't fair and it can easily put a long-lasting chain of doubt into a relationship, esp. if anything ever goes wrong.

If you have cheated the first thing you need to come to terms with is yourself. Getting others to agree with you that you've changed isn't really the point. The point is that you know that you've changed. Convincing others is totally meaningless. If you really want people to believe that you've changed and that is important to you, then I think you should ask yourself "why?" The importance of that task is something that is beyond me.

If we go back to the original point of the thread, it was being tired of hearing the saying, "Once a cheater, always a cheater." I feel that it's important to let people know that people do change because it's apparently hard for some people to see that people's attitudes can and do change. Thoughts and emotions change how a person acts. The feelings and emotions that are felt from both the 'cheater' and the person they cheated on weigh on the person and, depending on that person's motivations afterwards, guide how they act from then on. With this saying, it can hold someone back from trying to try to mend themselves because they think that they will be stuck in that cycle.

IMO someone who has cheated has crossed the line and shown that they are capable of cheating, if only once. Whether or not they will repeat their actions is up to the person.

I think the saying "once a cheater always a cheater" is more indicative of the insecurities of the other half of the relationship than the proclivities of the offender. it's a cliche that tries to give a generic answer to a question that doesn't always fit the mold.

I was that cheaqter, and I must admit it was hard to not cheat for a while.. Mostly I think it was a maturity thing.. I was more into th ethrill of the chase and not the relationship..

I've since grown up and am with a woman I love who gives me everything I need and more and with whom I can be myself for good or bad. I think it was a combination of being with the right person at the right time of my life.

If I could take back all the wrongs I've done I would.. But for me, I've learned form my mistakes and won't repeat them.. My g/f was one of the women I cheated on my ex with, she knows all about the others ( I was a distraction to her at the time as she likes to call me) I love her and trust her and I believe she feels the same for me..

I finally allowed myself to be loved she has given me that love.. the sex is just an added bonus.

no different than people thinking that you are a thief... once a thief always a thief....

if you can't deal with the "persecution" of being branded as such... then heed the warning and chose your actions more carefully for OTHER things that you do.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

I'm posting way late on this but I thought I would add my two cents in. I was cheated on by several men, this gave me trust issues and it took me a couple years to trust my husband completely because of this.

Now I don't think once a cheater always a cheater, but I do believe if you cheat on a person, you are more likely to repeat it again while you are with that person. However you could move on to the next relationship and never stray.

Everyone has definations of cheating, luckily my husband and I both have the same moral standards and agree what is appropriate behaviour and what is not.

And lastly if you are having so many problems that you feel the need to cheat, see a counseller, get a divorce, but make sure you have tried everything you can before you stray, because you guys are still hurting, and even though you may have been forgiven by your partners or not, you have to live with it and so do they.

It is easy to forgive, but almost impossible to forget.

Having been the "Ross" in a "Ross and Rachel" relationship a la Friends, there are times when a woman will say she wants a break and guys will misunderstand it.

She told me she wanted some time apart, to maybe see other people and try to make our relationship more healthy.

I wasn't looking to "hook up" that same night, but night, but when the woman you loves tells you that stuff, you tend to spend the night drinking. Sigh.

I have a few more opinions:
1. Yes, it is Black and White. Your are either a cheater, or you are the one who was cheated on.
2. I don't think anyone who cheats should drown, kill, mame, or feel any worse than they should already feel for cheating. Own up to it.
3. What happens to other peoples relationships is none of my business so do not put a heavy judgement on those that cross the line.
4. When I am the one who faces a cheater, I do not stick around to make amends or try to forgive and forget. There seems to be an underlying issues in a relationship in the first place so I do not feel the need to try and resolve it when it can happen again. Sure, someone can change, but they can change without me.

This is truly a topic that can spark emotions because there are so many of us that have cheated (not me), and so many of us that have been cheated on. I can't seem to conjur up any empathy for those asking for forgiveness. I apply this to me personally, not anyone in this thread that has responded. Again, what you have done in the past is none of my business.

There's far to many circumstances and unique situations to say all cheaters will cheat again.

I find myself mentioning my past with cheating far more often than I ever would have expected, and for far longer.

I was living with this girl in college. We were going to the same school, worked at the same workplace, in the same department, and we even opened a joint checking out near the end of the relationship. Out of the blue, she cheats on me with a fellow co-worker, a married co-worker whose wife also works in our department.

But it wasn't exactly "out of the blue." What you need to understand is that it is never, ever out of the blue. When you're in a genuine relationship, this kind of thing doesn't just happen unless you're bent in the head. For example, I was significantly overweight and spent a huge amount of time on the computer, and she was depressive. I spent a huge amount of time on the computer because she was depressive, which contributed to my weight gain. I'm sure if we all examined those broken relationships, we'd see reasons and signs we missed. We'd see a domino effect. She wasn't a bad person, nor was I an innocent victim. She just had problems that I didn't know the extent of and didn't know how to deal with.

You live and learn. You find someone who's stable and genuinely communicative, and you hang onto them. I graciously backed away from one girl recently who's solid as a rock but silently defensive. If it wasn't for what happened in the past, I'd be jumping in feet first instead of looking for someone who was more open.

I make mistakes too. At my first television station I came back with blue video, and I've never done it again.

The difference is that the blue video was a technical mistake that didn't reflect my attitudes or morals.

If I cheated on my wife, it would be an absolute reflection on my morals. Would I do it again? Maybe, maybe not, but I did it the first time and that indicates that there is at least the possibility that I am still morally bankrupt and might do it again.

It seriously just depends on the person. I cheated on an ex boyfriend once because our relationship was going down the drain anyway, but I'm glad to say that while I have had the chance to, I have never cheated since.

I've cheated, once many years ago and can honestly say I wouldn't do it again.

For me it was more of an experiment. I wanted to know what it was like, I found out, I didn't get caught and the girl I cheated on still doesn't know and never will. (interesting aside, when we broke up she suspected that it was because I was seeing someone else but I was just over her, the affair was done long before.) I got to see first hand how shitty cheating is. But I'm like that. If someone tells me that the plate is hot I have to touch it to find out.

So here's another case of once a cheater, never again a cheater. It's unfortunate that rigid statements like this exist when they don't apply to everyone. There are people though for whom it does apply, it's too bad their bad behaviour sticks to the rest of us.

For previous posters who call it a moral failing, or a loss of integrity that you can never get back, just look at all the people who manage to turn their lives around. It can and does happen.