final_identity

I've heard a lot about the "sex positive" movement out there. I just can't find it. :P I mean, I like to think of myself as sex-positive -- hey, who isn't? I enjoy sex, as long as I'm attracted to my partner(s). I find myself marginally attracted to men, mostly attracted to women, I keep myself well, I'm educated, I look good (used to look better but time catches us all ...), stay clean and fit and groomed. But I just don't really see IN REAL LIFE what HBO keeps reporting on ON "REAL SEX".

Like, for example, every time there's some swingers meet on some sex documentary, I'm just fascinated by it. I try to get involved in these things, because it just comes so naturally to my inherent inclinations, this idea that perhaps it would be impossible to have a mutually respectful, loving relationship WITHOUT such open sexuality. So, I want to get involved.

But I'm a single unattached male. And really, that's who I'll be for all my life. Why won't the rest of the world relent and fuck me more often?

OK maybe I'm just ranting. I picked up a copy of (the very cheaply printed, poorly designed, crappily produced) "Ethical Slut," recommended to me by the "seduction" community (cf. http://www.fastseduction.com -- the only place on the 'net where males like me get a fair shake, as far as I can tell). It informs me that there is a whole "counterculture" of people who know how to get laid, and who lay one another.

I live in Jackson, Mississippi. Maybe that's part of the problem? But honestly, when I lived in Tampa or Toronto I wasn't faring any better. I just don't believe there's much "sex positive"-ness going on out there. Do you?

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. Friedrich Nietzsche

doncalypso

I know this is gonna sounds stupid, but what do you mean by "sex-positive"?

Do you mean someone who enjoys sex and isn't afraid to express themselves sexually? Or do you mean somenone who is into swinging or "open relationships"?

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Doncalypso... the one and only Haitian Sensation

fallenangel

I love this, the more people i get to know, the more sex crazed people i meet like myself, woohoo! Let me know how your search goes for more sex-positive people.

Have you ever been in a serious relationship, or only open to swinging?

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all I wanna do is - give the best of me to you

Harloquin

I feel you man, I am horny all the time and I do get laid occassionally but really I'd prefer to be getting laid by a different girl at least every month. I just wish I had more random sexual encounters because those are my favourite. By random I mean going to the hairdresser and having some woman (could be any age 17-50, I'm 24) hitting on you or you hitting on them and just banging them in the bathroom...that kind of stuff. I just want to fuck like it isn't a big deal, I find to many people take it seriously and think that it is sacred or you have to earn it etc etc. I want to be able to go up to a girl (complete stranger) and just say lets go back to my place and see what happens (without me looking like a creep), and I want girls to do that for me as well.

Holo

why can't you? Simple;

Disease.
General mistrust of strange males in sexual situations.
Women have a stranglehold on sexual decision. That will anger some females on the board but it's the honest truth. If you were a female this thread wouldn't exist.

Swingers dont' like loose cannons like yourself for reasons 1 and 2. Couples and partner swapping are deemed more safe as you have established ppl in commitments with something to lose if they're not discreet. I had the exact same problem when I went with a friend to a nudist colony. He was an "experienced" nudist, meaning he had been to several resorts before when I had no experience. They basically told me single males aren't really encouraged to come to their colony unless they had some nudist background.


The reason why, of course is the prevailing societal opinion that all stranges males=sexual predators. They were worried that I somehow wouldn't control myself at seeing all that glorious leathery 50 year old naked flesh all around me. I really didn't care one way or another but it taught me a lesson in nudist sociology.

as for reason 3, you're just gonna have to deal or find sluts. I mean "normal" women can be very sexual but most are very choosy because they can be. Combine that with less physical strength than yourself and the predator pigeonholing and your answer is clear.

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I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince

i8one2

I get the drift...At about the same as you are now, I had almost all the same concerns: Being a cross dresser(I started at 16), not really ever finding quite the right mix in a relationship and all the other crap..sexually...hornness and lost desires could bring in a man who otherwise was in a pretty good frame of mind.

What I first did was completely re-evaluated my life: point my point, hard. DEEP down what did I really need and want in my life and what could I handle? What was I capable of? Having had those thoughts of fringe lifestyles, I read about stuff beyond generally excepted frames of mind. Not the kinks of if by the Whys of it, why did people gravitate to them. I spoke to 2 fellow member(former now) right here on TFP and got closer to them and trusted that if I opened up to them, they would do the same. Many hours pasted in private IM's specifically about the DEEP stuff. The result was mind-opening in its simplicity of what ended up happening for me. I listened to them getting there perspective of my truths. I let it all hand out, being vulnerable and then it happened. I finally was prepared to take the next step. I only placed one personal, a very straight, truthful, fact based, and honest wants. It took me 2 months of looking at other peoples adds, looking for the same honesty, and straightforward take on the things I wanted and they needed. In then happened!

We met, and instantly we both knew that we had done it right for us... I was a new dominate and she was a around the edge submissive. She knew the basics of it... Now almost a year and 6 months later, she will be moving in.

We both meet each others needs, we know the ground rules, and through continuously educating ourselves, we are headed into areas never dreamed of, lusted that are getting stronger by the day and getting to do things, that would seem so naughty yet right for us...Its becoming second nature....in its purist sense.

She wears my collar proudly and with all the respect it deserves, I have trained her to become a better submissive to me, and I learned from her what it really means to care about someone. She taught me so much about humans needs it still numbs me, speaking about it.

Bottom lines, I was in the shadows all my life about sex and have now found what its means to be sexually positive! IT WORKS. and take work.

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LEATHER, LATEX and LACE "SSC"
"Nothing That Gives Pleasure is Bad"

Quality is for those who know
what they want and are at peace with what they have.

"S/M is about emotion; the erotic tension between my impulse toward something and my resistance against it."-- Virginia Barker

raeanna74

Holo really expressed the reasons that swingers tend to shy away from single men.

Hubby and I agree that I shouldn't meet single men because of the risks. They have no special attachments or obligations that we know of. Since they have no significant other it's harder for me as a woman to judge their intentions. More or less if another woman is already attached to him that he's at least a halfway decent man in the way he treats a woman.

There is one couple that we know of where we have a suspicion that he does not treat his girl right. More or less as in a bit violent and disrespectful. I, and hubby agree, won't meet that couple because of it. Couples reflect each other and we get a better picture of their character.

A couple has invested emotional baggage into their relationship and before we meet a couple we get an idea of their commitment to each other. It's SAFE simply because we know they aren't going to get obsessed with either one of us or want to split up our relationship.

There are MANY more single men than single women out there looking to just fuck.

A swinger relationship is based on trust between the partners and there is an emotional bond that is affected each time they swing with another couple. The single male is there with only one reason - pussy - the swinger male may be there for the same reason but he is also putting effort into a relationship and swinging is a part of that. We aren't really into sex without any investment whatsoever.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

final_identity

Depressing.

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. Friedrich Nietzsche

ozmodiar

maybe if you were gay in the 80's. The whole bath house scene sounds like what your looking for.

There is never a glut in the market for easy dudes. Horny males is probably the largest demographic on the planet. If i met a women who viewed sex the way most men do then i'd probably run away. Men can think about doing it with everyone all the time, but women actually can if they wanted to.

I hear ya though.

final_identity

I was once signed up for a time slot in a "24 hour gangbang" with a woman trying to build her porn name up on the internet. I chickened out. Wonder if that would have been an inlet into the type of "scene" I'd like to find?

I don't actually want to be a swinger -- just get to the sexuality part earlier in a relationship, so that I don't have so much time / effort / desire-not-to-hurt-someone invested in it by the time we DO finally fuck. Etc. Thoughts?

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. Friedrich Nietzsche

raeanna74

You're looking for hooker - easy - no effort but money put out - and she doesn't care what your reasons are or if you walk away the moment your done.

Otherwise - most women just aren't desperate enough to give sex without getting something else in return.

Most women have sex to get love. Most men give love to get sex. It's usually a two way street. If you want to ditch the puttin out love then put out some money.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

maleficent

Love is overrated -- and really hass nothing to do with sex.

Sex for sex sake is fine, and healthy - the concept of a Fuck Buddy is not totally foreign to many women.

But, and this is going to make me sound like a shallow person, but I've been around the block more than once...It's the age, I have no interest in 20 somethings - y'all may have the stamina, but its quality, not quantity that matters. Confidence not cockiness is rarely there in 20 somethings -- If a 20 something came up to me and said hey let's go back to my place and fuck - I'd laugh -- cause I'm pretty sure his place would either be a dorm room, a room with 4 roommates, or that place where mommy does his laundry. If a 40 something said it, well -- it's a better chance that he's not living with anyone and has an early meeting...

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jayman2004

i love sex and thats pretty positive...

final_identity

I love the way "my place" means "let me show you my material wellbeing" to women who are trying to claim they aren't interested in money ...

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. Friedrich Nietzsche

Averett

She wasn't saying that. She's saying she doesn't want to go nail some 20 year old and then next morning have his mom make her breakfast...

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

Kazic

interesting topic. Are there women like this out there? I mean that are doing this of their own thoughts?

I have always thought of myself the male as the guy wanting to have sex and the women withholding until they get what the wanted of me. ie love/relationship/bling

I like the idea of women liking sex for pleasure and I am always blown away by women who are more upfront about what they want.

Even in relationships it seems that women still wait for the male to initiate ( not always) but for real is there women out there that are "Sex Positive" ?

__________________
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man
affected us as kids,we'd all be running around in
darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening
to repetitive electronic music."
-Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

raeanna74

Personally I love sex for sex's sake. It can be scary for a woman going into a totally exposed situation with a man without knowing that he's not a freak in some way. It's not so scary when I'm doing this WITH my husband and knowing I have my husband at home for the loving, romantic relationship that my the emotional part of me wants.

The woman can often be a little weaker than a man. Unless we have taken self defense classes we can often be overpowered by a man. Thus I think I and maybe other women tend to be more leary of who they have sex with even though they may want it without conditions.

I realize this may not be all of it but its a part of my reason for not going with just any guy any time unless I'm with my husband.

I guess it's a matter of "Can I Trust You?" and "How do I know I can?"

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

BooRadley

That has no relevance to the real world. There are amazing places called "hotel rooms","cars", and *gasp* "her place" that nullify that argument. I agree with final, she pointed out "material well being" instead of "i hate 20somethings living situations.

maleficent

There's also alleyways and elevators too but it's not all that comfortable...

Women have their own bank accounts and credit cards, and even, if you can imagine this, own property. Some of us aren't interested in men simply for money.

There is a thing called standards, even if it is for, what Erica Jong referred to in Fear of Flying, as the Zipless Fuck. And Averett's right, I don't want momma to be making me breakfast (been there, done that, standard for me is living alone - I don't care if it's a 5th floor walk up in the East Village -- I don't want to run into people in the hallway)

If there was a troll like female sitting at the end of the bar, offering you no strings attached sex... You'd say yes? Even very horny gentlemen have standards too....

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BooRadley

I did not say you had no standards. Nor did I say that money was the only thing important to you. Nor did I say you were a money-grubber.

But, in your standards, lifestyle is important to you(and many others! ) Lifestyle is unquestionably related to money. I think it would be hard to date someone dramatically different financially from you , both for males and females. I'd say this is true for most people... but...

It is really easy to say "money grubber" and "gold digger", as they do exist. The line between having "strict standards of lifestyle" and "being a gold-digger" can be made by close observation only. Notice the emphasis on strict, as some are more serious about their standards than others.

final_identity

I didn't mean to imply that money-grubbing was going on in any situation. I meant to imply that a large number of "typical" female arguments about why to have / not have sex, have become muddled by the material-wellbeing quotient. "He's stable" and "I don't want his mom making me breakfast" might SEEM to be valid manners of assessing a potential partner, but they quite often are simply hiding the real decision-making process. Perhaps his mom was Julia Child, perhaps he was a brilliant (but poor) poet who could give her orgasms with his words. The notions about material wellbeing get HIDDEN behind a buncha excuses.

They're still perfectly reasonable notions. A human is allowed to choose whatever he or she wants, especially for sex partners. Just don't be hypocritical about it. "I need him to seem like an adult" is categorically, positively, the exact same thing as, "I am impressed (to some degree) with earning potential," it's just said nicer so you don't feel too bad about your own conniving mercenary attitude toward human relationships.

And don't give me that evo-psych stuff about a man being a provider. Only in rampantly market-based economies has that been proven to be the case. In, for example, the more "communist" (or material-scorning, I guess would be more accurate) Australian aboriginal cultures, monetary wellbeing often plays no role at all.

Fact is, human females enjoy sexuality, and enjoy it EQUALLY WELL with rich or poor partners, but have been trained by Walt Disney et al. to be in denial about those facts. "I'd be a bad girl to fuck a guy just because he was hot." Or, "I really need to feel emotionally supported and secure." Bullshit. All you need is enough background and trust to know you're physically safe, and the confidence to throw Victorian prudery out the window.

I'm personally tired of having the implications thrown at me that my interest in sex is (a) predatory (and potentially damaging to any consenting partner) or (b) inappropriate for a more "balanced" relationship, or (c) destined to be "exchanged" for something non-sexual, like a lifetime of economic support no matter how squeamish she is about blowjobs. We have, in our sexual politics, a real blind spot; that spot is lust. There's nothing wrong with it, or with acting on it. There's a lot wrong with pretending there's some kind of "right" price for acting on it.

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. Friedrich Nietzsche

maleficent

This is getting interesting now...

OK, putting lifestyle standards aside for a moment. I am not going to apologize for roommates (or parentals) being a deal breaker for me - been there in my 20s, done that in my 20s, I'm too damn old to deal with roommates again.

You are in a bar, and you've had several drinks. You are feeling a bit randy. You catch the eye of a young lady at the end of the bar, she's got a great personality, but to be honest, she's not hot, in fact, she's rather ugly. She's made it clear that if you are into it, she's yours for the evening, no strings attached. You have made it clear your preference for hot females. Do you lower your standards for a sure thing, or do you keep looking for the hot chick who might or might not happen?

What do you do?

Everyone has standards, when guys have them, they are accused of being shallow, when women have them, we tend to be accused of being money grubbing.

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doncalypso

Why are you so dismissive of 20-something guys?

I can understand if you wouldn't want to sleep with a 21-year-old or a 22-year-old guy because chances are he's still in college and may live in a dorm or in an apartment with three or four roomates that don't have any sense of hygiene or cleanliness... But what about the 26 or 27-year-old guy who's got his own apartment to himself and is getting started in his career? Would you dismiss that guy too simply because you feel he's too young?

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Doncalypso... the one and only Haitian Sensation

maleficent

Age shouldn't matter, and in a perfect world it wouldn't, and if I were a man of almost 40, and she were in her late 20s there would be no discussion, however... there's a double standard there... It would be entirely too weird to have sex with someone who I am practically old enough to be their mother.

If I were a few years younger, and that 26 year old lived in his own, then it wouldn't be a problem.

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final_identity

I don't like the way that the twenty-something dude (who is in his late twenty-somethings, not his early ones) assumes that getting started in a career is a positive trait. I guess that IS a standard interpretation.

But where I come from (mentally as well as physically), career men are less sexy precisely because they're standard and boring. That's pretty much my point, in the material-wellbeing part of this discussion ...

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. Friedrich Nietzsche