Nice Guys Finish Last. But For How Long...???
 

Yeah sooo... Basically I just want a woman's opinion or what-not but first my sad story (Oh, and the girl I'm talking about is a member here, but I really don't care about her seeing this). Basically, my girlfriend decided to break up with me for her ex (but it's not the normal thing *sorta'*).

To make a long story short, this woman and I had a pretty good relationship. Well, a great relationship. Or so I thought. I mean, we had our problems like most relationships do, but we always worked through them. We always did things together, many nights we just stayed up and talked, we shared each other pains and joys etc. When she was feeling down, I always tried to make her feel better. According to her, I made her feel special and I gave her a tremendous boost of self-esteem.

Now, also according to her, her ex was nothing but a jerk. He ignored her, treated her like crap, made fun of her to make himself feel better, they never spent time together etc. Basically, she always cried to me about how shitty he made her feel and how great I made her feel.

So yeah... You'd think that she'd choose the guy that treats her with dignity, right? Wrong! She tells me a couple of days ago that she still has feeling for her ex (which I can understand) and that she wishes she didn't because she hated him. So I didn't think anything of it. Then, yesterday, she tells me that she's been thinking and that she loves her ex moreso than me. And this I can't understand. She ADMITS that she hates how she treats him and how she doesn't want to go through the same thing again. She even admits that for the first time in her life, I made her feel needed. But then she turns around and does this to me. In my opinion, she doesn't know what she wants.

So right now she's off talking to him and I'm left here, practically in tears, wondering why this sort of thing ALWAYS to me. So basically, I want to know why it seems women always chose the jerk over the nice guy. I guess this is more of a rant than anything, but I just want to know why (some) woman chose the guys that they know aren't going to respect them or their feelings???

Anyway insight would be GREATLY appreciated.

He's the type of guy that she'll date, but you're the type of guy that five to ten years down the road she'll kick herself over losing you.

You'll find someone better that not only appreciates you, but wants to be with you at the same time for the exact qualities that this girl has turned away from.

I wouldn't worry about it... even though I have the same problem.

I dunno, maybe she told you all that stuff about her ex being a prick cos she thought it was what you wanted to hear?

Dunno if this applies to your situation but women with low self esteem often fall for controlling men who treat them badly, and act like they dont care about them. Its mistaking a mans weakness for strength. They mistake the behavior as a sign of a strong man when in fact its usually the mans own insecurities as the driving force behind it.

At the same time they mistake the "nice guy" for a weakling because he is secure enough in himself to treat her like she is not beneath him.

I have seen this many times in my life. I don't quite understand it, but a large percentage of women love "the bad boy" whatever the hell that is. Another arguement is that if you make a woman feel too secure, it's the kiss of death. (I truly believe this one.) I think it's because on some deeply subconscious level, they want their men to behave like men. Nurturing guys tend to be equated with feminine characteristics.

Your GF obviously falls into that category.

I think they basically LOVE the drama of it all. On some subconscious level, these "bad boys" represent a challange to them, or the enjoy the humiliation of being treated like crap at some level. I am sure one could do a master's thesis on the subject.

It's interesting because men by and large do not duplicate this behaviour. Sure, there are some men who enjoy being dominated by their females, but very few men seek out the female counter part of the "bad boy" - "the bad girl???"

Now, looking at the broader picture, not all women are the same. Many have a lot more going for them and want nothing to do with an asshole. Which raises the question, is your GF's ex an "asshole", or a "bad boy" There's a difference.

I don't know how old you are, but my observations are that as women get older, this desire to mate with a "bad boy" fades. By the time she's in her mid 30's, it's pretty much the opposite. Most "bad boys" at that age have huge beer guts, are unemployable (note i said unemployable not unemployed) , and have severe personality disorders, and often abusive. (Stereotyping perhaps)

The romance of the notion of the "bad boy" wears thin.

My recommendation would be to buy yourself a harly and start chasing other women. This will drive her crazy with desire.

I dated a girl like that once. She dumped me for a guy who treated her like crap, was into all kinds of bad stuff, was going nowhere in life, and who I am told hits her. She had tried to come back to me once, but I said no way. Best choice I ever made. The last part, about him hitting her really gets me, and even though I really kind of loathe her for what she put me through, noone deserves that, and if I ever did witness him doing that to her or any other girl for that matter, his ass would be in for some pain. He was always frightened of me, even as he worked to steal my girl, and he knew damn well I could kick the living shit out of him.

What pisses me off about this whole deal is that by the time she reaches her mid-20s to early-30s that same girl is probably going to want to get back with X_789_X or with a guy like him (i.e. a good man) because she'll be tired of bad boys.....

I don't understand why so many women spend their youth dogging the good men and then expect us to take them when they're finally older and wiser.... I don't know about you guys, but I don't want any bad boy's sloppy seconds.

Don't be nice to her.

Stand up for yourself.

Be a man.

You put this girl up on some kind of pedestal, and as expected, she doesn't line up with your fairy tale notion of her.

Obviously this woman isn't good enough for you, so why be upset that she's gone?

Finally, why bring your dirt to a board that she's a member of?
Isn't that just a little passive aggressive? Why not just be aggressive, and confident, and be the kind of man she wants, instead of whining because you aren't the man she's looking for?

I hope this wasn't too harsh. You need to stand up for yourself bro.

Exactly how I feel.
A few months ago I found out that the first girl I had feelings for is now with some complete jerk. I'd definately say no if she ever came back to me. It's a sad world :(

-Robert

treat a girl like dirt, and she will stick to u like mud

Life is too short to wait around for girls who aren't into you. See, I'm not blaming her here. If she isn't in to who you are, move on. There is little hope for a relationship not built on mutual respect. I once was told by my female roommate (who I wanted to bang) that I was the kind that women marry and not the kind that women date. Boy did that tick me off. About the time I was ready to settle down, she was wanting to start dating me, but I was having no part of it. If she wasn't into me to begin with, I had no thoughts about the long term. I ended up marrying a woman who was into me from the beginning, and it has worked out very well.

AMEN brother!

Amen brother.... I couldn't have done it better myself if I were in your shoes.


Hats off to you, Mr. Skynooner.

you'll either stay the nice guy and find someone that deserves and appreciates it, or you'll become jaded and slowly turn into a jerk, and ladies will love it...for now. But you'll be empty inside, my vote, stay nice and just try to keep a positive outlook

I can feel your pain man. Ive been there quite a few times. From what I've seen its all about maturity. Most girls my age dont seem to be interested in a long term, strong relationship with a nice guy. They want to live way out on the edge and be with the "bad ass" guys. All they care about is the image that their guy has. And unfortunately with their friends, that bad ass guy image is what is impressive. My advice is to find someone that is a little older and a bit more wise. And yeah, its a catch 22 situation. Im 22 years old. Not many 25-27 year old women would give me a second look as soon as they find out that Im that young. But THEY are the ones missing out. I figure something is gonna come along and bite me in the ass one of these days and thats gonna be that. Until that time, just go out and have fun. No reason to let this slow you down man! Just keep on truckin!

Seems to me she wasn't over him to begin with.

Never ever date a girl on the rebound.

most of the girls i know are on a life long rebound off someone or other.
i think that the problems usually arrive when someone doesn't know anything else apart from how they were treated before, usually after a long term relationship, but there are exceptions.
then, they go out with you for a bit, but a part of them doesn't like the change, and manifests itself in the bane of everyman 'i like you loads, but i still have feelings for my ex'.
it's always the nice guys who end up with that end of the stick, you mop up the mess of someone else, only to have things collapse around you again.

i agree with what J. T. Kirk said. it's all an evolutionary thing, womens instincts want a strong man to look after them, but a nuturing man to look after the kids, and then you get the female mind on top of that, and you have a 5 million word scientific paper about how stupid it all is.
i agree with the bad girl analagy too. i once dated a girl who was very tomboyish, loud and generally had the mind of the asshole ex. yes, she was hot, and theres nothing better than having a nympho for a g/f, but it just gets very grating when you have someone who can't go three seconds without using somekind of profanity, and really wants to be the boss. so, things didn't work out, shame, she was hot.

i could spend hours going over the base instincts of female mating behaviour, but i can't be arsed and some feminist is gona get in a nature vs. nurture argument with me.

Exactly. That's why when you run into one with a lot of baggage, you have run, don't walk, to the nearest fire escape, and don't look back. Otherwise you're going to end up carrying it for her, and it sounds like you are already.

Also, you could do what I do, only date girls younger than you, who have never had a serious relationship. I know that sounds horrible, but I've found that the relationship is better when I have the emotional/maturity edge, that way I can control the pace and the timing. Plus it's a lot easier to find a young woman who is 2-3 years younger than you are (please wait till you're 21 to start with this strategy), who will eat up the fact that you're an older guy paying her some attention, and therefore be into you to begin with. Win-Win situation.

Sorry to double post, but I have a serious question for X_789_X.

From the way you describe your relationship, I have a sneaking suspicion that you probably weren't getting laid. Or in other words nothing physical was happening.

We need to know, because it changes everything.

And for our own personal pleasure. Were you getting laid. Can you describe in detail if you were. ;) :D


Anyway to answer your question. "Nice guys" will always finish last. That's never gonna stop. You can make yourself less of a "nice guy" in order to get what you want.

I thought about that once, but why should we be the ones to change!

-Robert

exactly, we'll be the ones who will have all the ladies in middle age:D

You don't have to change you personality. Just change some of the things you do. Don't call when you think you should. Be really late once or twice. I'm not saying you should run out and fuck some other girl then beat your girlfrend with a shoe. I'm just saying you don't to fall all over her every need.

I've been in relationships with guys that treat you like dirt, and its weird but you always want more. Looking back on it, for me it was a terrible thing to stay with that guy, but I couldn't help myself. Everytime he didn't call I would agonize for days, it wasn't good but it was somewhat adictive. Makes you feel that much more special when he does call. I know its sick and crazy but I bet that's the way a lot of girls act. I wish we didn't.
I hope you're allright

Just don't put girls on a pedestal.

You didn't make any of their problems, so why should you solve them for her?

If I had a problem would you try to solve it for me?

I don't know why it has to be any different from that.

The minute you start bending over for her, you lose mutual respect.

When you're an asshole to women, or at least not a 'nice guy' you make them work for the respect that you give them, it's a 50/50 thing.

So relax off this girl, and don't worry about it so much. Be the one in the relationship that doesn't call, be the one that doesn't put up with her shit, and demand some respect. In the end you'll either get it or her problems will be someone else's.

I agree with that. There is such a thing as being too available, etc. Come to think of it when I met my wife I was buried in lab or classes 12-14 hrs/day and would often get up in the middle of the night to reset an experiment. It was a time I didn't have time I didn't have for dating, so I wasn't particularly nice or rude. It just so happened it worked out.

move on.. she obviously doesn't appreciate what you have to offer and doesn't deserve to be with you if she can't see it.

You know you're better than the other guy and believe me, she soon will too. She'll regret it 100% guaranteed..

Nice guys tend to not get divorced and have problems with fidelity. not to mention the trusting sex is great. Not to mention, nice guys tend to go down on women better (nice most of the time = sensitive)

Still didn't answer us 789

Anyway to answer your question. "Nice guys" will always finish last. That's never gonna stop. You can make yourself less of a "nice guy" in order to get what you want. [/B][/QUOTE]

Boy, that's not very nice, is it? Now I see where your views come from.

nice in da' street, but a freak in the bed.....don't we all want that?? I want my "barbie doll" g/f to clean, cook, and take care of the kids too, but "that girl" isn't made in USA anymore. american girls are fast becomming american men of the "old"...... fuck whomever, whenever..screw cleaning (thats what fat girls r 4) and taking care of the kids (thats what g-parents r 4).

this probably doesn't help you but I wanted it off my chest:)

Sorry. I've been away for a while. Ummm... Well, to answer your question, 'yes' and no I'm not gonna' spare you the details ^_^.

The same reason so many guy's ignore the quality girls and only date the vapid, pretty girls.

It's a sad thing to confess to but most females i've ever come in contact with, myself included have somehow managed to end up with a guy, whom, after pursuing them and then getting them, realizing that he's not what they originally hoped he would be, and spend so much time and effort already invested in trying to get that guy back, that they overlook how they're 'currently' being treated... It's not something females consciously decide to do, (choosing the 'bad boy' over the 'nice guy',). It's hard to admit when you were wrong about a guy you fell for i guess is what i'm trying to say.

The only answer for this : Females are stupid.
Spend money on quality, clean hookers, and save yourself a lifetime of troubles....

Of course, this is sarcasm, but not far from it.

Don't get involved, and know that they are far from being worthy of dating you. The females of this forum, who are 999.999% cooler than average females , still admit to liking jerks. Either become an obnoxious jerk, or end up taking care of someone elses kids.

This is a lesson you will have to learn. I don't care what kind of girl you want to attract, they all want the same thing. You are destined for a lifetime of sorrow if you end up taking the nice guy route... it doesn't work.

What right do I have to say any of this? I don't know. I'm not a credible source. I'm just some random person on the internet, right? Who happened to be an optimistic nice guy with genuinely good intentions towards relationships who turned into a distrustful yet sucessful 'normal asshole'?

Better yet, ignore me, continue what you are doing. These girls will need someone when they are 30 , have a kid from another guy, and weigh 170 pounds . That is something to look forward to, I'm telling you.

I think there is often confusion when using the term "nice guy". It needs to be said that there is a difference between a "nice guy" and a carpet shaped slice of chumphood who neither respects himself nor the opposite sex.

There is a difference between being a nice guy and being somebody who attempts to get laid by pretending to be caring and sensitive. I think it is also silly to complain of being used by a woman if your sole motivation for putting time into a relationship was to get laid. Not that this necessarily applies to you 789.

X_789_X, this may be belated, but you need to tell this girl to fuck off. Then you need figure out what you want in a woman and decide whether you want to play a part in these bullshit games. Most importantly, don't change who you are to get laid. I think women and men, if they're worth anything as mate material, respect people who know what they want and respect themselves. It has nothing to do with being a "bad boy". It has everything to do with having confidence and self respect.