feelgood

No shit, even kids in elementary school are doing "oral" exams nowadays...

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Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

Amarth

Well, the mother doesn't always have to be logical.

(I'm a son.)

31Friction

my parents let me have sex at home in high school they just didnt want to hear it. It was kind of a matter of respect. They knew I was going to do it no matter what they said. So as long as I was practicing safe sex and understood the possible reprecussions they were ok with it.

It's alot different when it's a daughter though.

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"Saints need sinners."
Alan Watts

Cynthetiq

I had forgotten when I posted before that my parents had walked in on my sister. All hell broke loose. I got a call from my mom in Singapore she was in tears. My father made the young man sit butt ass naked in the hallway until his parents came to pick him up. My father stated simply, that he did not condone such behavior and it was unacceptable in his house.

My parents set the expectations and my sister did not live up to them.

Since this thread was originally posted, I had created the READ BEFORE RANTING ABOUT YOUR PARENTS thread

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

IC3

First i want to say that, If she knew that they were having sex..Then her just walking in isn't right, The reason i say this is because..The way i was raised, My room was my space..It's the only place in the whole house (except for bathroom) that i had my own privacy and not have to worry about my mom or stepfather just barging in saying...This is my house, I go where i please.

When i was 17 my girlfriend was sleeping over at my house and your damn right we were fucking, And if it was during the day..Actually to make it simple, My room was in the basement..If the door was closed, That meant "Do Not Disturb"

But hey, If that's your parents rules..Then that's the way it is i guess.

If i have kids, I will treat them like i was treated growing up...Teenagers need there own space.

__________________
"To win any battle, you must fight as if you were already dead" -Musashi

Janey

couldn't disagree more. But from the perspecitive of the transgressee, it would be embarrasing to be caught whith your pants down

tenchi069

Parent's: Their house, their rules. Period. If you are old enough to move out, then move out if you don't like the rules. If you are not old enough to move out, then tough, you are their child and they are responsible for you, if not legally, then morally. They will impose the rules upon you as their parents before them did for them, etc. I followed my parents rules until the day I left, and I expect my children to do the same.

-tenchi

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ERROR- PLBSAK
Problem Lies Between Seat and Keyboard.

feelgood

Ok, before anybody else post the stupid old "Their house, their rules" blah blah blah rant, I didn't fucking ask if the rule was stupid.

I asked if it was ok for the parent to rush in the room while their kids are in the middle of having sex. See the original thread post.

This thread been dead for 2 years, leave it in peace

__________________
Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

Janey

1) it is not a "Their house, their rules" blah blah blah rant", it is fact. don't fucking get your panties in a knot when people point out the obvious.

2) I think the question of if it was ok was already answered. Of course it's okay, the door was closed and locked under suspicious circumstances. who knows if what ws happening was an aact of permissiveness or not. In these circumstances, I would not have hesitated, and would probably do dammage to the door trying to open it if I could.

3) this thread may havebeen dead, but it was revived, and seems to have enjoined some conversation, regardless about how you feel.

tenchi069

You may not have asked if the rule was stupid, and honestly I didn't comment if the rule wa stupid or not. If you are wanting a more direct answer for your question, then I will spell it out for you.

If you are living in your parent's house with the parent/child relationship ( i.e. you are under 18, or over 18 but not paying rent in a landlord/tenant sense ) then it is THEIR house. Period. You have no rights. If you don't like it, leave.

__________________
ERROR- PLBSAK
Problem Lies Between Seat and Keyboard.

twinkle

I guess it depends on your background. My house was sort of under Nazi rule; I was not another person, I was a detainee or something. So, this would have been typical of my parents --- I had no private or personal space. My husband's family treated him as a person from day one, and it certainly leads to a different family dynamic, even now.

To those who suggested that the sis should have tried discussing sex with the parents rationally --- if her parents were anything like mine, that so could not ever happen. I couldn't discuss the weather with mine without having ridiculous insults and accusations hurled at me. Sometimes the opportunity for dialog is just not there.

Your sis terribly disrespected your Mom's rules and wishes --- but it wouldn't have hurt for your Mom to be a little more discreet. It's much easier to respect (and obey) a parent who doesn't go out of their way to hurt and embarass you. It may have been within her rights, but perhaps not the best decision as far as a relationship with her daughter goes.

Spiffgirl

Yeah...gonna have to disagree with ya there :-) First of all, like so many of you have pointed out, Mom and husband own the house. Their house, their rules. Period. And as for the idea of the rule being unrealistic, that's definitely a matter of opinion regardless of the rule in question.
And when someone breaks a rule, you're saying they should just "accept it" ? Why bother to make/enforce rules at all?

Maturity= financially supporting yourself
making responsible choices
being able to financially and emotionally take care of any
unexpected consequences of your actions (no contraceptive is 100% foolproof). I doubt any 17 year old is ready for that.

When you're on your own, earning your own living, proving you are responsible...then you can do whatever the hell you want without worrying about Mom.

Spiffgirl

I'm sure sis and her BF will think twice next time...memories of Mom busting in...

Kurant

If you don't pay the bills in her house, it's her right to do whatever she wants. YOU have no right to question the person putting food on the table. It your moms right to walk in whatever room she wants, whenever she wants, even if her 17 year old daughter is getting tore up by her man.

Bottom line, your out of line. It's your moms house, it's her rules. She can do whatever the hell she wants. Get a job, pay the bills, put food on the table, then your sister can make up all the rules she wants.

Suave

That's a stupid rule anyway. I can see "no sex on the couch" or "no sex in my bed", but it's her daughter's bed and they're doing it in privacy.

Does she want her daughter to have to get it on with the guy in his '87 Civic with the stick riding up her butt and the pungent odour of the pine air freshener wafting by her face as she tries to enjoy herself?

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Ustwo

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=57185

Edit: Ah I see that was already linked. Best post on TFP

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Suave

I have no problem with my parents or their rules. Despite that, there is a discrepancy in our opinions. I think it is the responsibility of the parent to raise their child, and making dumbshit rules like that one plays no part in it. Seems to be more there because of personal insecurities than actual child-rearing.

Rule #1 of planet Earth: It is Suave's world so if you disagree with him you are wrong and get the fuck out.

^ Your logic applied to the point of ridiculousness ^

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Janey

sigh. wow shaking my head in utter amazement. when words come back to me, I'll try to add to this post.

StanT

And that's pretty much how household rules go. If you don't like them, can't abide by them, or just generally disagree with them, get the fuck out.

Bill O'Rights

A.) It's not a "stupid" rule. It's her mother's rule. Any rule is stupid, if you don't agree with it.

B.) It may well be her daughter's bed. I am, however, willing to bet a dollar that mom paid for that bed. And even if I lose that bet, the bed is still under mom's roof. Mom, by default, gets to make any, and all rules. Stupid or not.

C.)Well, granted it was the late seventies, but back when I was doing the "teen sex" thing. I recall, quite vividly, getting a good bit of action in the backseat of my 1968 Mercury Monterey. Of course, there was something to be said for the land yachts of that time era. Ahh...good times...good times.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Suave

Well in this case, I'm calling the rule stupid on the grounds of logic. What logical reason does she have to not allow sex in her house?

And I know cars aren't exactly uncommon places for sex, but if someone would rather have it in the comfort of their room, why not?

Janey: I look forward to seeing your reply once you've recovered from shock.

I believe in the principle of compromise, no matter the situation. It's fine that in some situations a person will absolutely and unequivocally say "no, it's my way and that's final" when they have a right do so (such at in one's own home), but I think that even parents should try to compromise sometimes and see things from the point of view of their children as well.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Cynthetiq

The logic was that my parents did not wish to contribute to us in that manner. No Sex in the House was the rule. I spent lots of money on staying in hotel rooms at age 17. It doesn't have to have any logic. It is just what they decided they want the expectation to be. It was set, and consequences ensued for breaking them.

What they were willing to allow was underage drinking and smoking in their house. We were allowed to have parties of friends come over and drink, but no one was allowed to leave if they had anything to drink. It was a well respected rule in our house by many of my friends. Those that did not respect it were not allowed to participate in future events.

Parents can pick and choose what they wish to allow and compromise on how they see fit. I agree with you on looking to compromise, but I'm only willing to do so with EQUALS, thus a child parent relationship is not equal to me and thus not subject to my rules of compromise.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jinn

Why can this dilemna simply be answered by the trite cliche of "my house my rules"? I do not wish to incite anger, but only for some of our more conservative TFPer's to consider this. I think we'd agree that this would be a very simple matter if it happened between adults. The confusion is thus arising from the fact that it is a parent-child relationship. In a parent-child relationship, you can be as absolutely authoritarian as you want and get away with it. Why? Well, two reasons can be cited -- you raised them, and you "pay the bills." You can smack them, you can yell at them, you can lock them in a room for punishment, and you can even deny them previously "promised" things. These are your abilities under the law, and I wholeheartedly agree with ALLOWING these priveleges. Do not assume I wish to join the PC crowd and deem punishment or discipline unncessary. However, you should not/need not punish in this manner if you raise your children from birth to offer two things: respect and communication.

This means MANY things: don't be afraid to tell your children how you feel about sex. Even if it is "No sex before marriage," simply offer your explanation. Provide religious texts as a backbone, and remind them that it is simply respect for you as well as God. If it is not "no sex before marriage" but simply that you do not want them to be engaging in sex then make all rules enforceable, fair, make their ramifications clear, and make sure they understand why you've written them. If it is simply that you do not wish to have "sex in the house" then explain to them all of the possible complications, contraceptives, hazards, and your moral and natural feelings about them. You cannot use "I'm scared" as an excuse: you birthed this child to be their teacher and their GUARDIAN, and should be providing them with as much information as they can handle.

As an adult, if my country could create laws without being able to enforce them, without being fair to all parties involved, or without notifying me of exactly what the punishments were, I would be understandably angry, and I think you would be too. It is one of the "freedoms" we enjoy in a just government. The forefathers wanted most to avoid abuse of power, because no sane human being can stand having unwanted or unnecessary force applied to them. This certainly applies to children, and they have many rights and provisions under the law themselves. Thoughtful parents with intended childbirths -- I KNOW you didn't become a parent so you could provide a place for someone to live until they got tired of your rules. You created a child because you wanted to bring something into this world. .something like you, with respect and honesty and communication. You didn't birth them so you could force your will on them or create rules to bind their behavior. You didn't birth them so they could be spiteful and move out when they were 14. You CANNOT force your will on another human being, regardless of age. If you want your children to understand this as they grow into mature adults, the easiest way to do this by treating THEM with respect.

I tend to believe that this rule was not explicitly stated, and in this case there is no one to fault but the mother. By using this implicit rule to inforce the morality of "no sex", or the way you wish your house to be run, you are being niave. Children and teenagers are not the only ones to rebel against rules they do not agree with; it is a HUMAN phenomenon. It was the mother's fault for not being very explicit about the rule "no sex in the house." Since this is an isolated case, we cannot know if it was simply "no sex" or the latter.

On the subject of discipline, I always felt worse when my parents told me they were "dissapointed" in me or that I had brought "disrespect" on them or their house than I EVER did when they spanked me. I felt like someone undeserving of the love and shelter and money that they provided me with. They had birthed me, and given me a house and their love and I treated them like THIS?! No amount of beating your child will ever make them respect you or your power over them. You can never buy their respect. If there was one thing I wish my parents had done differently, it would be this expression of respect. If they had treated me like an adult (adults still have rules) and listened to me with the respect I deserved, I could have accepted their opinion as a person with more "authority".

......I seem to have a knack for writing excessive long posts, so I'll summarize:

*The mother is at fault for not clearly expressing the rules
*The mother is at fault for not teaching her child to respect other humans (and her mother especially)
*The daughter was the victim of unclear rules

If the rules were explicit, then the daughter should accept the punishment, and quite simply.. is deserving of discipline; but NOT because "its my house and my rules" but because she's forgotten to respect her mother.. the woman who will always love her.

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Suave

Oh yes, I agree that, at the most technical, it is "their house, their rules". However, I still believe that a) guidelines are better than rules, and b) said guidelines should be able to be talked over and possibly amended if approached in a civil and responsible manner by the children, through conversation between children and parents.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

bigbad

If I was your sister, the minute I turned 18 I'd be out of there so damn fast... and I'd make sure it would be quite a while before she'd see me again.

I guess I was lucky in that my parents respected me as a person enough not to pull stuff like that. I got walked in on on a few occasions accidently, but after a couple of times they'd simply knock and talk through the door.

And for all you "her house, her rules" people, if the house rule was that if she had sex at all while living there her mother would beat her, would you still argue that way?

Cynthetiq

Beating is not an acceptable consequence for ANY action no matter how grave the infraction. (That is not to say I do not condone spanking, I personally do believe in "Spare the rod, spoil the child", but that is another thread entirely.) The rules are reasonable, but the consequences are not. So if you even stated, "consequences: starvation, beating, any thing that could be construed as abuse," they are not acceptable consequences.

As for "being out of there so fast..." my parents set up pretty reasonable rules, but to me they were still rules that I did not like and I know and understood that if I wanted to change them the only way that I could do so was to make it "my house" (Whose House? sorry can't help it.) I was a smart kid so I explored emancipation but I did not like the ramifications and hoops I'd have to go through to accomplish it. My salvation was going to college away from home about 5 hours away....and what did I learn from that?

They contributed money to the tuition, so, I did not have 100% authority over myself still. I figured out that in order to have that few percentage points left to truly make it "my house" I had to be fiscally responsible for myself 100%. It took me a few years to get to 100% and I fought for every percentage point. My final stand was when for 1 year I would not accept ANY gifts from any people since my parents learned to "use" my sister to get to me. Even when I got married 3 years ago, I made sure that if I wanted it our way, we paid for it 100%.

My parents understand totally now where I'm coming from and respect it. They offer money all the time to "help" and I always refuse because in my mind there's always a string attached to it.. it maybe just tied to an apron, but it's still a string nonetheless.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

bigbad

Run's House!

So now that we've established that there ARE situations where "her house, her rules" do not apply, as in cases of abuse, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on whether this is one or not. I feel that walking in on your adolescent child, knowing that they are naked and very likely in a compromising position, should be considered one. Imagine if this was a father purposefully walking in on his teenage daughter masturbating, I bet there'd be cries of pedophilia/ephebophilia and such.

[Edit] Woops hit reply accidentally, I also meant to say I really respect how you dealt with your situation Cyn My parents were very fair with their rules, but I too wanted my independance. It didn't go as well as yours however and they did indeed choose to bail me out a couple of times when I had troubles. I've since paid them back, and help them do their yardwork and fix up the house and stuff on weekends to show my appreciation.

Suave

I think parent-child relationships should be based on understanding; not control and power differentials.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Cynthetiq

Please don't read into it anymore than what I've posted. *I* want to not have *ANY* strings from anyone. Be it my parents, my boss, etc. I want to determine my own fate. So in applying these same logics, I saved up 6 months of salary so that when my boss says, "JUMP!" I don't have to say "How high?" I can decide for myself if I care to jump or not. I don't live in fear of insubordination. Work is at will and it's an EVEN at will for me, not the power differential you speak of that most people live in fear.

It's not the same thing as some other families that have conditions to gifts etc. I know that there is no such thing as a free lunch. There's always a hook. Again, do not read into it more than that, it's just how I feel I want to interface with the world, on my terms not someone else's.

Now, power struggles happen all the time, look at people who plan their weddings with having to invite Aunt so and so, who the bride hasn't seen in years, but has to because of family politics. Again, I don't want someone to dictate to me what I can and cannot do. I will create my own reality and be responsible for it 100%.

This is yet another reason why I don't wish to have children as people will continually be telling me how I should be raising my child and I'm not quite interested in being told. You have your opinion on how YOUR children should be raised, and you should not inflict that upon others. You are free to share it, but not impose it.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Prince

It's your mom's house, but it's your sister's privacy. The fact that she owns the house doesn't mean your sister doesn't have the right to privacy. I would pretty much expect her to be having sex at 17. I never did, but I can't really blame those that did/do.

I think it's safe to say she knew what they were doing in there. She should've known better than to barge in there. If she doesn't allow fucking in the house, knock on the door and shout "Put your pants back on NOW and get the fuck out" or something. Humiliating them was not necessary in my book.

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cellophanedeity

If my mother knew I was having sex, and walked in anyway, I'd be really angry. I'd be humiliated and I'd probably move out at the nearest time. But, if she angrily knocked on the door, then punished and lectured me, it would be okay. I'd still be embarrassed, but embarrassment and humiliation are two different things.

I think the rule is acceptable, even if it is not something I particularly agree with, but the way that your mum dealt with the situation seems a bit too extreme for me.

But then again, I'm only a kid, right? *sigh*

Suave

Well I just shared. And also, it's bound to happen in a thread dedicated to parenting. It's not like I go around to people normally and say "You need to <insert advice> your kid because <insert reason>." I'm not that kind of person. Anyway, I see what you're saying.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

ChistledStone

Isn't that statutory rape under 18? Or maybe I'm wrong. I just think the boyfriend is a dumbass.

Even if she did knock, does it matter? She'll still catch you.

__________________
A.minor.fall.then.a.major.lift

Cynthetiq

Agreed.

I find it amazing because I see it happen all the time. My parents are very thoughtful. I am my father's son, cut from the same bolt of cloth. He too feels as strongly as my last post about being able to create his own reality, which is why he left a prominent well to do family in the Philippines. He did not want to be known as "His father's son." He wanted to be known for himself.

My sister has 2 children, ages 2 and 8 months respectively. My father is very considerate in not imposing how he feels my sister and her husband should do things. He sees her "mistakes" from his wisdom, but he holds his tongue, which if you knew my father is a feat.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Janey

lol my shock lies in the belief that kids have the right to have sex. As a parent, the common sensibility of the rules lies in: THEY ARE TOO YOUNG TO HAVE SEX. PERIOD. And for as long as they have the legal responsibility to protect their children, the rules will be applied.

Now if the kids go off and do something stupid in an area that is not controlled by the parent, there's not much that a parent can do. although liability still lays with the parent of minors.

Zeraph

To the people who say you have no privacy if youre living with your parents? So a dad should be allowed to watch his 17 year old daughter showering? And vice versa. Just because the parents "own" the house, they don't have a right to walk in any time they want. That's basically like saying parents should be aloud to tell their children if they can masturbate since they can just walk in anytime they want and watch them. You people are CREEPY!

If they want to have no sex rule in the house fine, but sinking so low to use humiliation as a tool to do it is tyranny.

Suave

A ha! Well, the only argument I will use to say that older teens are ready for sex is: once the body is prepared for procreation, the person is old enough to have sex.

That's not my own personal reason for believing that a 17 year old is old enough for sex (my reasons are much more arbitrary), but it's as good an argument as any I imagine.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Cynthetiq

saying that "older teens" in one breathe and then once the body is prepared in another is in direct conflict, thus you believe that even "children" should be having sex.

So a 12 or 13 year old who's fully developed physically should be allowed to have sex by your definitoin. I believe the ignorant statement is "Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed."

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.