mypro

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Averett

Do you love your wife?

Do you think you could make it work with her?

I think you both could do well with some marriage thearpy.

What does the mistress think about all of this? Does she know you are married? Would you want to be with a woman who would knowingly be with a man who is married? What would keep her from cheating on you?

Wow, that was a lot of questions...

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

mrcraptastic

seems to me that if she knows you're married and is still involved with her, what would stop her from cheating on you, as said above. this especially applies since she's "trust me on this, if you saw her, you'd want her" type of hot. guys would be all over her. plus, it seems like picking her would be like choosing lust over love.. which i dont believe in lasting too long. i guess, as averett asked, you have to ask yourself if you love your wife. i guess another thing you could ask yourself is whether you want a commitment to this mistress or your wife, or if you want a possibly short term relationship with this mistress.

Mango

This hot GF will eventually become very familiar to you and may become boring. If you are not in love with your wife therer is not much point in sticking around other than to be near your kid. If you stick around and your relation ship is shitty but you stick to it it may e worse for the kid than if you did not live together. If you go with the GF and get bored after a couple years she could sue you for child support even though theey are not your kids. Something to think about. If the GF is not so bright you will probably tire of her even though the sex is good. I know I can't be in a relationship woth a chick that does not stimulate me intulectually. Think about why you and your wife got together initially and see if there is any way to rekindle the feeling you used to have for her. strange sex is good but the strangeness will soon wear off and you will be going from one relatinship to another looking for the right one. You may already have it and just not know it. Think hard before you make a final decision for your sake and your kid's.

Viking1064

After read the things you wrote about your lover, you only seem to be interested/attracted to her sexually. You don not seem to have any respect for her as a person ie. her bad choices of her ex BF and husband, she's had FOUR kids before she is 30 and is now divorced, she isn't smart, etc. I too think you are in lust and not love. Her person life seems unstable with her ex's. I'd steer clear. It sounds like if they find out about you, it will not only ruin your life, but your wife and child's. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Redlemon

A year from now with the mistress, how many hours a day can you have sex versus how many hours will you be talking with her? I think your brain will explode before long.

Since your wife seems to be working to keep things going, I believe you need to work on that.

Also "crazy ex-husband" plus "crazy ex-boyfriend" doesn't give you much credit. She sounds dangerous. Cut her off.

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

mypro

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dragonhawk

How long have you been married? Being together for over 10 years is a lot of time invested. Sounds like you dated from school.

Boring is a realitive term. Boring in bed? Boring in general?

Is you wife unwilling to try anything new? Why? Talk to her about it.

Think of you kid. Do you live in a state where the father can get custody? Do you want custody?

Gee, crazy ex-husband, crazy ex-boyfriend. Sounds like she is a little crazy too. Be careful of women who knowingly date married men...

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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

mypro

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absorbentishe

Dude, just think of alimony for how ever long/child support until 18+. I had a similar situation, before I was married, no sex/touching invovled. I made the right decision to stay with fiance now wife of 8 years, and 3 more children. You could make it work with you wife if you wanted to.

sufferin

If you must leave your wife, leave her because you can't work it out, but be prepared to help raise your daughter. Don't take that step lightly. You are no longer alone.

If you must leave your wife, don't do it solely for the mistress. Have a good time with her, sure, but don't put your eggs in that basket, or you'll just find yourself in another difficult situation.

The most important person in this story is your daughter.

Shyla Loral

Also, what are the divorce laws in your state? How would the property/ies you have with your current wife get divided? As far as the mistress goes, consider the same. She has 4 kids, if she gets married to you, and it doesn't work ou t, and it's community property, you've gotten screwed twice on divorces.
Don't make any permanent decisions right now. Call the marriage counsellour, ask for the name of an individual therapist, and see him/her;that way, you can help yourself figure things out more.
Be semihonest with your current wife, say something along the lines of "I don't think things are working out for us right now, and I think we should sleep in seperate rooms." Continuing to sleep in the same bed with her everynight is dishonest (granted, so is cheating on her, but it's all a matter of degrees, and you gotta cover your ass).

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"Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead" Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac.

Meff r0x

Bobaphat

Divorce the wife, enjoy the girlfriend, but don't get too serious. Go play for a while, sew some oats

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--size matters not-- yoda

mypro

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siryn

I really think you need to make this into two decisions, not one. It shouldn't be about which woman you are choosing, but about deciding how to make you life happy. Everyone who has said so so far is right: your attraction to your mistress is superficial, and though it brings you pleasure, it is an unstable situation that puts not just you, but her, your wife and child in a sticky situation. Your first decision should be: am I happy with my wife? If the answer is no, obviously the relationship needs to be reevaluated, and its clear that your relationship with your mistress has made you understand that there is more out there. So if you know you are unhappy with your wife, I suggest marriage counseling, as someone already has. Give this a shot, at least a month's worth, maybe twice a week, make sure you are expressing to your wife WHY you are uncomfortable in the relationship. You said that you've tried marriage therapy, but if you're not honestly expressing what problems there are and she's not listening (mind you I'm sure she might have complaints, too, this isn't totally about you), you have a problem. Have you tried just having a sit down discussion with her about problems? If she isn't receptive to your problems, leave: things aren't going to get better on their own.

Decision number two: this only applies if you decide to leave, but you need to decide what kind of relationship you are going to pursue with girl #2. In my honest opinion, she sounds manipulative and your feelings toward her to not seem very solid. DO NOT LET HER PUSH YOU TO MARRY HER. She seems like she is in a tricky situation - you mentioned that yourself, and she may just be looking for support, especially considering her choices in men - hostile boyfriend, hostile husband, and no offense, but man #3 (you) married money maker.

If you decide to leave your wife, don't do it for the mistress' sake, do it for you. If you are looking for someone who satisfies more than your wife can do, look for someone else. I gotta say, your mistress does not sound like a promising relationship at all. I'm sure the sex is great, but that is no basis for a relationship, much less a marriage, and you should be looking for someone who can fulfill your sexual life as well as your intellectual and emotional life.

You're still young, you have a lot of choices. Don't limit yourself to such a one or the other situation.

SkanK0r

I have no advice except to remember the kid. That doesn't mean you neccessarily have to stay with the mother or whatever... just make that kid a priority in whatever happens. And good luck man, this is rough.

mypro

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Averett

I'm glad you're deciding to end things with the mistress.... It probably won't be easy! But as the saying goes.... Youve made your bed, now you have to lay in it...

Just tell her straight up. You dont want a relationship with her. You took the chance with this, if she makes life difficult for you, you'll have to deal with it.

Shitty? Yup. But then again, the whole situation is. You knew that already though


I don't think there is any reason to flame you. I don't agree with cheating, and I dont think others do either. But you're seeking help. Sometimes we all just need somebody to talk about things with. If that happens to be a forum of strangers, so be it.

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

gduventree

A clean ending with the mistress? Hmm, let's see.

Exactly how crazy is the ex-husband or the ex-boyfriend? Like are they stalk-you-and-cut-out-your-heart type crazy or are they punch-you-in-the-face type crazy? Because if you think you can get them involved without causing yourself too much grief then that would give you a plausible out with the mistress. If she thinks you were 'scared off' by an ex- then there might be less problems than if you were to just dump her.

Of course this would just be another lie and if the mistress ever found out you'd probably be in for a world of hurt. Just a thought.

/\/\etalhea|)

I'm a little late with this, but I just think this is total bullshit on the part of the mistress. WTF? Did she forget about the crazy ex's of hers? Maybe you could be together without hiding it from your (ex) wife, but not w/out hiding it altogether. She's putting all the pressure on you, which is a bad sign.

As far as a clean break, I think you gotta come clean with your wife. That both disarms the mistress and relieves your guilt somewhat. If you're really committed to staying, and you make it work, the guilt will get to you eventually. Head it off by confessing.

I would confess with a lot of emphasis on WHY you felt the need to cheat, as far as her being a prude. You gotta be fair to yourself and get something out of it for you in exchange for staying. Let her know, in a non-hateful way, that she needs to meet you halfway on the sex thing.

WARNING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE: Do NOT mention the thing about her not orgasming!!! Mention everything else, but not that. Doing so will make her feel like something's wrong with her, she'll focus on it, and the problem will get worse, not better.

Instead, focus on her willingness to try new things. Once she loosens up, work on getting her to masturbate for you and work towards an orgasm that way. Don't make her fell self-conscious, that'll guarantee she never has one.

Just my $.02. Best of luck.

dimbulb

very good points raised so far.
I agree that you should tell your wife about the affair if you wish to restart your marriage. Trust and communication is key, and confessing would be a start. Once you decide to try to patch things up with the wife, go all out.

Bored? Start behaving like a new couple. Do new things together, both in and out of bed. take a second honeymoon.

Aladdin Sane

Your mistress is a total nutbomb. She thrives on chaos and she WILL wreck your life. She has a crazy ex-husband, a crazy ex-boyfriend, and 4 kids. She is obviously crazy herself. She doesn't even have any money. A healthy, sane woman would not have all this insanity in her life, and would definately not be going out with a married man with a one year old daughter! Dude, are you stupid? Run away from her as fast as you can. Get serious about therapy, get serious about the commitment you made to your wife on the day you married her, and start really loving your baby daughter (by staying committed to her mother), and get rid of your romantic but dumb ideas about "being in love." Dude, nobody stays "in love" forever. Real love is when you stand by the commitment you made to her even when you no longer feel like it. This society is so fucked up, and you are a perfect example. Lasting love, real love, is based on a thought, not a feeling. Real love is a choice you make, not a feeling you get. So get real, stay away from this looney mistress, get serious about therapy, and put your baby daughter first!

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

motdakasha

I'm glad you decided the mistress is not the prime choice in this situation. I'd like to add, though, in case if you ever come to a decision point like this again, that you should keep your kid in mind. Divorce is not something to be taken lightly. While it may be amicable with you and your wife, divorce can be traumatizing to a kid.

Since you've talked a lot about divorcing your wife, maybe reverse that conversation and see how she takes it. Instead, talk about not divorcing her and noticing things you may have taken for granted about your wife. Try to warm up your mistress to the thought that maybe you're better off with the wife instead.. The fact that she has four kids and two whacky Exs indicates to me that no matter how you deal with this, it probably won't end nicely or easily. But maybe, just maybe, you can get her to realize what's going on and she might just bow out gracefully.
**Added**
Also, keep in mind she is your mistress afterall, not your wife. You have every right to go the opposite root and leave her high and dry. You made your vows to your wife, not her.
********

And I think you need to come clean with your wife. Even if you had protected sex with the mistress, your wife still has a right to know she may be at risk for STIs and whatnot because of your actions. This is about her physical health.

When I first read your post, I was immediately reminded of Shakespeare. Though I'm hardly a fan, I do like these sonnets.
Sonnet #130: My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun
Someone's analysis of this sonnet
"And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare."
"But Shakespeare ends the sonnet by proclaiming his love for his mistress despite her lack of adornment, so he does...embrace the fundamental theme...total and consuming love."


Sonnet #154: The little love-god lying once asleep
Commentary
"Love's fire heats water, water cools not love."
"Hence he 'proves' that 'love's fire' can always 'heat water' but water cannot 'cool love.'"

__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)

lafemmefatale

Congratulations on your decision, I wa sholding my breath hoping you'd stick with the wife.

Ending should be easy. Tell her no and wait it out. The question now is, will you ever tell your wife?Honesty is important in marriage or any relationship for that matter so...best of luck with your marraige, it seems to be getting on the right track.

Ps. How much money do you make? You can send your wife to one of those spa things, those professionals can really work magic with looks if you really need a little shallow indulgence once in a while. Just a suggestion.

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-poor is the man whose pleasure depends on the permission of another-

SkanK0r

I've got a friend who can take care of the mistress. What kind of car does she drive? Disc or drum brakes? I'll have him contact you.

twotimesadingo

/me stomps on dead horse

Glad ya came to the TFP, mypro. We've got some really compassionate, intelligent people haunting these boards.

But right now, you've got me. While I'm no Averett, or Motdakasha, I do have two cents... and they're shiny!

That's supposed to make you laugh, btw. With all the stress you're undoubtedly dealing with, I thought that would be appreciated. But then, I'm also not funny at all, so who knows?

Absolutely come clean with your wife. Three reasons:
1.) She deserves it.
2.) If you have any intention of continuing your marriage, you need to know how she feels, and she needs to know how you feel. Therapy's been mentioned, but before you go that route, I recommend a sit-down. If you’re both adults, a facilitator isn't necessary during your first real discussion.
3.) Perhaps her response will surprise you. You said you were attracted to her intelligence; give her an opportunity to exercise it. Let her make a rational decision and stick with it, even if that means you're in a world for a while. Could be, your confession rekindles facets of the relationship you never really appreciated before.

How to get rid of the ex? Quickly. Be kind, be sincere and be honest: "I thought this would help me, and it doesn't. The sex is great, but I must admit to myself that a relationship can't be built on orgasms, and I don't think we have anything else that would bind us together."

Good luck, man.

__________________
I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from a will to survive and voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and your choices, son.
They're one and the same I must isolate you, isolate and save you from yourself."
- A Perfect Circle

Hard8s

You might want to remember that the wife may get upset at his too. She is a human being with feelings. Let her air out her feelings without jumping in all the time. But be sure this is what you want to do. I know when I broke up with a long time girl friend, I told her the truth. We didn't talk for a while after that but we did eventually become friends again. There is going to be a lot of crying on her part and possibly some on yours too. But be sure to get out all of your problems, so that she knows what you are dealing with. Tell her the things that found you accepting the advances of another woman, don't make it a blame it all on her thing. It has to be positive to help in the end.

But always remember the little one. This is going to traumatize her a little if she has to see or hear any of this. For the little one's sake try and get a friend to watch her for a while when you have this discussion. Remember a little girl is always going to need a Daddy not just a father.

As for the mistress, I agree do this quickly, you can always tell the truth here as well. Tell her the sex is great but you want to give the marriage another try, especially for the child. Also tell her how all the sneaking around does not make you feel good, how you are worried about the 2 crazy ex's and what might happen if they found out, etc. Be a man and tell her straight out its over.

Anyway I hope I have helped in a small way.

__________________
If ignorance is bliss, then wipe this smile off my face!

wry1

I've been digesting the posts you've left, as well as the replies logged by everybody who took the time and cared enough, and I realized that was exactly the point....

Take the time and care enough.

Whatever your reasons, you've landed yourself in a situation which comes with its own little world of hurt and guilt. You're going to be there for a while - and in the doghouse with your wife for some time after the hurtin' stops - but what everybody has said so far is true: make sure that your daughter isn't a casualty of your marital problems.

Come completely clean with your wife, and remember to accept full responsibility for your choices; your marital problems are something which both you and your wife are responsible for, but your infidelity is your own bag, baby! By owning up for this(especially to your wife), you'll be showing her that while there are problems, you're a big enough person to shoulder whatever's needed on your part to resolve them.

Good luck. I don't know your wife, and I only know you from your writing, so this could go in any of a number of directions. Just remember to be there for your daughter no matter what, however this ends up.

tec-9-7

I've been in a similar situation, but without children on either side. I chose the other woman, and to be honest it has been very difficult for me. I hurt my wife very badly and she honestly did nothing to deserve it. If I could, I'd go back and really make an effort to work things out w/ my now ex-wife. I wish I could have realized how unhappy I'd become in my marriage and dealt with it rather than running from it. My marriage may still have ended, but I owed it to myself and to her to have at least tried to work things out - I didn't and now I deeply regret it.

JStrider

before you end it with the mistress come clean with your wife... it will be better for her to hear it from you then the other woman...

__________________
-=JStrider=-

~Clatto Verata Nicto

tereencet

I can't really help you with your dilemma, but just to put in my two cents worth on the affair: don't flagellate yourself over it. I think that what you did was not only understandable, not only OK, but probably a good thing.

We owe it to ourselves and to those around us to try to be the best people that we can be, emotionally, spriitually, and yeah sexually.

Yes people are naturally monogamous, but that doesn't mean we have to drive that into the ground, OK? People really weren't made to have just one sexual partner in their entire life. To do so negates the gift of sexuality which is part of the gift of life.

(This doesn't apply if you're a Christian, but in that case the problem is defying God, which is another matter.)

I'll bet if you look inside you'll see that the goodness of the sex in the affair was not just physical pleasure but an increased sense of joy in your own self. That's only got to help your future partners, whether your current wife or someone else.

In my own case, I've been married a very long time, and we are not sexually compatible. I had an affair a few years back and it was one of the best things I've ever done, a very life-affirming thing for both me and my partner. I don't regret a moment.

And jeez, your wife is not orgasmic. We weren't meant to go to our graves not giving even one woman an orgasm. But on the plus side, I would think that with doing research and consulting experts and whatever you ought to be able to fix that orgasm thing with your wife eventually. After which she'll follow you around forever with a dreamy look on her face, lol. No seriously I bet that would really help your marriage turn into something really cool.

Good luck to you.

yournamehere

I've read every response to this thread, and I commend everyone who responded. I would agree, for the most part, except for one issue - coming clean with your wife.

Is it the ethical and moral thing to do? Of course. Is it the right thing to do? Perhaps not.

By dumping your mistress and confessing to your wife, you could very well end up alone. Your marriage is hanging by a thread now - can it survive another trauma? Your wife may head straight to the nearest, best, ball-bustingest lawyer she can find if you confess to an affair.
<i>Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.</i>

Legally, she would have a very large advantage over you - but that's not what I meant.

Right now - if you dump your g/f and commit to making it work with your wife - your marriage may survive. If you add the knowledge of betrayal to the mix, how can that help things? Maybe it will reduce your guilt, but this isn't only about you.

In general - yes - it's better to get everything out in the open and get a fresh start. But in this case, I'm not so sure. <b>Mypro</b> - you know your wife better than all of us do - are you sure you know how she'd react if you come clean? You'd better, if that's your plan.

If I were you, i'd keep a tab on how many great things I'd have to do for her to make up for the affair, and do them all - then do them all again. And keep on doing them.

Good luck to all three of you.

__________________
If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

motdakasha

I agree. Not only that, but if the mistress goes off the deep end and starts stalking him or something, the wife can be there to help him fend her off. Might even be some (re)bonding with the wife involved.

I disagree. I think that's a rather selfish approach to the situation. Why would you withhold important information possibly about her health (STIs)? It sounds like the only thing you're thinking about is making sure he still has someone to bump uglies with. There's no question in my mind that he should probably end it with the mistress seeing as how it's only physical and she's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Honestly, if the wife is not willing to patch things up with him, then maybe he's better off starting from scratch... alone. He's given her enough credit in the noggin department to make me believe she's probably mature enough to handle the next blow.

Honestly, I think the first step in making it work with the wife is being completely honest. Lies, as we've seen already, create a rather depressing downward spiral and it sounds like he's looking to get out of it, not deeper.

__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)

yournamehere

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Before I hand out advice - I try to look at <i>all</i> of the possible consequences of each action.

How would you feel if <b>Mypro's</b> next post was something along the lines of "Well - I took everybody's advice - I confessed the affair to my wife, and now she's left me, won't return my calls, and is sueing for sole custody and outrageous alimony due to my infidelity."?

I just told him he'd better have a pretty good idea of how she's going to react before opening that can of worms.

Your health concern is justified - he could take care of that by being tested himself.

Like I said before. <b>motdakasha</b>, confessing might be the ethical and moral thing to do, but the marriage might have a better chance if he makes up for it in other ways. Guilt is a great motivator.

__________________
If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

motdakasha

Let's agree to disagree.

__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)

mypro

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soshi_aroso

You've managed to get me out of lurker status, just to chime in my $0.02...so here goes...

You said that you love your wife, but that you aren't totally IN love with her. An inelegant way of putting it, but I can't think of a better way, and it does get the point across. I do understand the feeling; though I've never married, I have been in long (5+ yrs) relationships. Part of the appeal of the mistress is the physical aspect, which you seem to not be getting at home. Did the subject of physical intimacy ever come up in your couseling sessions? If not, that might be a good way to add an advantage to staying with your wife. Also, if she is having problems enjoying her half of it, you might try adding in something like a vibrator to the bedroom. She may initially be adverse to the idea, but I personally have known women who have problems reaching orgasm any other way.

My best advice to you is to seriously ponder the following - Would you be happy, or even content, living with this women if she were only your flatmate rather than a wife? Is she witty enough to keep up in conversation? Is she tidy enough (or messy enough) for you? If the honest answer is yes, then stick with her. You love the woman, and love, even if it lacks the physical passion, can be a very, very hard thing to find. I have ex-es that I do still love, and that still love me (I think). Just because we couldn't work out the physical aspect (or, in one instance, the living arrangements, and little stuff that just got to me. Yes, I know, I can be a bit petty) doesn't mean that I've given up on their companionship.

As for coming clean...you should probably do so. Yes, it may hurt her, but you will forever feel guilty if you don't, and it is always worse to hear it from someone else. However, (and suggesting this right after confessing is a bad idea) if the only aspect of your relationship that is lacking is the physical, you might consider joining a swingers club. Living with someone, loving them, and raising a child with them doesn't mean that you can't still have great sex, whether with that person or with someone else.

Dnz

Stay with wife. The kid will be a lot happier. Work out your problems, dont run from them. And from what i see the only problems you got are in ters of intimacy. If you feel bored, really get her to try something else. If/when she likes it, she will want more, and then itll work out. Plus this whole not pretty thing.. Im sure she can get attractive enough for you. I dont mean to sound weird, but just let her pamper herself, hairdresser/gym/clothes and thats gonna be a lot better.

Dont run from your problems, and dont get involved with someone thats gonna cause you problems. Do it for the kid.

Dnz

Staying together, and not telling her about the affair is not right. She has to know, its the right thing to do.

JStrider

YourNameHere does have a point... and you think it would probably end your marriage if you tell her... but i still stand by my initial point that it would be better for her to hear it from you... atleast that way you would be able to discuss it...

__________________
-=JStrider=-

~Clatto Verata Nicto