FALSE ACCUSATION - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pmb145 · 07-24-2003, 03:33 AM

I was wondering what people think about women who falsly accuse a man of rape. I for one think that it should be a crime equally as punishable as the crime of rape. It destroys a mans name and image even when he is proven innocent.

I don't think it should be a crime against the women simply if she cannot prove rape, but in cases where the woman is using it as a weapon or for extortion, then she should be punished. I know this is a harse subject and don't know if this is the proper board but I was curious what people think.

wario · 07-24-2003, 03:41 AM

It's kind of a crime already. If she actually tries to take you to court about a false rape and she lies under oath, that's perjury. And then there's always libel and slander. Though I don't know the punishment scale for any of these, so it's tough to compare.

Cynthetiq · 07-24-2003, 05:58 AM

ask Mr Pagones who is still trying to clear his name...while he's been vindicated by the courts he's still scorned by the public, thank you Mr. Al Sharpton. Pagones won a defamation case but has still to get paid by Mr. Sharpton
______
In 1987, black teenager Tawana Brawley claimed that six white law enforcement officers abducted and raped her. Those claims and others that her attackers had scrawled racial insults on her body and smeared her with feces were declared a hoax by a grand jury that also exonerated the man at the center of the accusations, then-assistant district attorney Steven Pagones.

Pagones was named as one of the attackers by Miss Brawley's advisers: Maddox, the Rev. Al Sharpton and lawyer C. Vernon Mason. While Miss Brawley refused to speak with authorities or the media, her advisers were soon making wild claims. Jury selection was supposed to have started for the Pagones’ defamation lawsuit, seeking more than $150 million from Miss Brawley’s three advisers when Maddox accused then-state Attorney General Robert Abrams of masturbating over photos of Miss Brawley. Sharpton compared Abrams, a Jew, to Adolf Hitler. All three linked then-Gov. Mario Cuomo to organized crime and the Ku Klux Klan.

But the grand jury within a year announced the story was a hoax and specifically cleared a Fishkill police officer and Pagones.

simonttx · 07-24-2003, 06:17 AM

it could happen but it's nothing comparing a man that ropes a woman...

dimbulb · 07-24-2003, 07:04 AM

In some cases, they keep the names of the alleged victim secret until the trial is over, but paste the name of the ALLEGED rapist all over the papers.

Something is definitely wrong with that. So it might prompt other "victims" to come forward, but....

It's REALLY hard to clear your name/reputation after its been dragged through the mud by the press, and its not fair that the accusers are allowed annonymity.

I agree that rape victims should have anonymity in court, because it is such a humiliating crime, but I think that rapists should enjoy anonymity as well.

pmb145 · 07-24-2003, 07:24 AM

I truly feel that an innocent man being accused and tried of the crime of rape is just as much a victim as a rape victim. It might not be the same physically but it is the same mentally even when vindicated by the courts. Also, innocent men are sometimes failed by the courts and are sent to jail.

I am not taking rape lightly, it is a horrible crime, I just feel falsly accusing someone of rape is just as bad.

simonttx · 07-24-2003, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pmb145
I truly feel that an innocent man being accused and tried of the crime of rape is just as much a victim as a rape victim. It might not be the same physically but it is the same mentally even when vindicated by the courts. Also, innocent men are sometimes failed by the courts and are sent to jail.

I am not taking rape lightly, it is a horrible crime, I just feel falsly accusing someone of rape is just as bad.

answer to this:

how many real rapes in a year and how many false rapes in a year ?

How many hidden real rapes that women don't have courage to say to the police ?

Donkeypuncher · 07-24-2003, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by simonttx
answer to this:

how many real rapes in a year and how many false rapes in a year ?

How many hidden real rapes that women don't have courage to say to the police ?

How do those things even compare?

"Innocent until proven guilty."

If one side of a case is allowed anonymity, it should be automatic for both sides; I don't even care what the issue is. If someone's found guilty, fine, release the name and the details. If they're innocent, it stays in the courtroom.

If you rape someone, you should go to jail. If you falsely accuse someone of raping you, you should go to jail.

It's not rocket science.

simonttx · 07-24-2003, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donkeypuncher
How do those things even compare?

"Innocent until proven guilty."

If one side of a case is allowed anonymity, it should be automatic for both sides; I don't even care what the issue is. If someone's found guilty, fine, release the name and the details. If they're innocent, it stays in the courtroom.

If you rape someone, you should go to jail. If you falsely accuse someone of raping you, you should go to jail.

It's not rocket science.

I agree
I was just comparing two different situations
a woman raped and a man with false accusation

pmb145 · 07-24-2003, 08:58 AM

Thanks Donkeypuncher, that is what I am saying. But it should be made clear that guilty people get off, it should have to be proven that flase accusation was malacious.

simonttx · 07-25-2003, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pmb145
Thanks Donkeypuncher, that is what I am saying

you didn't say that... anyway.
does your girlfriend know about your opinion ?

tenchi069 · 07-25-2003, 02:20 AM

Everyone preaches Innocent until Proven Guilty, but very few practice it. I myself fall into this category. I can't say I'm completely comfortable with it, but in the instance of rape I would rather be judgemental that inactive. My example is this.

How many of you would let your sister or daughter date a man that had been indicted on a rape charge, but the evidence showed he didn't do it so charges were dropped?

I'm not asking that you actually reply. Just food for thought.

erion · 07-25-2003, 10:50 AM

I'm all for going back to the code of Hammurabi, where if you brought a claim or accusation against someone in a court and could not prove your claim, you were put to death. Your lawyers joined you in that fate.

It would clean up a lot of the bullshit lawsuits that clog the court systems and it would limit these false accusations that people know will ruin a person's reputation because the news media jump all over any sex-related story like flies on shit.

I would also love to see it required that a media outlet devote as much space / airtime reporting the innocence of a suspect who is cleared as the do reporting on the alleged crime and trial. It's a concept they allow for politicians all the time (required by law, I believe) called "Equal time". The media would be a lot less aggressive reporting shit that is not proven if they knew they'd be forced to run a 1 minutes taped statement every 15 minutes for a month or print a full page statement for a week saying that none of the stuff the reported about the suspect ended up being true.

And I love how the simple word "alleged" is supposed to exonerate them from this responsibility. You never really process that Scott Peterson allegedly killed his wife and their unborn son. Your mind processes that he did it. You read that and your mind says "Scott Peterson killed his wife and their unborn son. "Alleged" is like tissue paper armor. It's there, but it doesn't really do anything.

Marius1 · 07-25-2003, 11:02 AM

Simple solution. If a woman accuses a man of rape neither name should be released. Weapon aspect eliminated and attention seekers or extortionist's won't get the attention they are after (so hopefully won't waste people's time).

Cynthetiq · 07-25-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donkeypuncher
How do those things even compare?

"Innocent until proven guilty."

If one side of a case is allowed anonymity, it should be automatic for both sides; I don't even care what the issue is. If someone's found guilty, fine, release the name and the details. If they're innocent, it stays in the courtroom.

If you rape someone, you should go to jail. If you falsely accuse someone of raping you, you should go to jail.

It's not rocket science.

Yeah, I agree. Watch for Rev. Al Sharpton when he is questioned about the Tawana Brawley incident involving DA Patagones. He dragged that man's name all over the place...

Gorgo · 07-25-2003, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donkeypuncher
How do those things even compare?

"Innocent until proven guilty."

If one side of a case is allowed anonymity, it should be automatic for both sides; I don't even care what the issue is. If someone's found guilty, fine, release the name and the details. If they're innocent, it stays in the courtroom.

If you rape someone, you should go to jail. If you falsely accuse someone of raping you, you should go to jail.

It's not rocket science.

These are my feelings exactly.

Being "Tried" in the media by having the accused's name made public is a mistake. Because a crime like rape is subjective and can based on both circumstancial evidence and false testimony, the fact that a "rape" occurred instead of "consenual sex " isn't proven until the trial is over. And sometimes not even then.

Why should only the victim have their identity protected?

daoist · 07-25-2003, 11:52 PM

heh that's just the question at hand: who's the victim?

if the prosecuter is right, the accuser is the victim. If the defendant is right then the defendant is the victim.

Of course there is the posibility of a 3rd option that hasn't recieved much discussion: What if she was honestly mistaken?

motdakasha · 07-27-2003, 02:17 PM

I agree that it isn't rocket science.

I have no respect for either rapists nor those who make false accusations. It's the whole boy who cried wolf scenario. If too many people claim rape when it's not true, not only are people desensitized to this horrible crime, but you are wasting time that could be spent pursuing a legitimate rapist.

07-24-2003, 03:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
pmb145 Crazy	FALSE ACCUSATION I was wondering what people think about women who falsly accuse a man of rape. I for one think that it should be a crime equally as punishable as the crime of rape. It destroys a mans name and image even when he is proven innocent. I don't think it should be a crime against the women simply if she cannot prove rape, but in cases where the woman is using it as a weapon or for extortion, then she should be punished. I know this is a harse subject and don't know if this is the proper board but I was curious what people think.

07-24-2003, 05:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	ask Mr Pagones who is still trying to clear his name...while he's been vindicated by the courts he's still scorned by the public, thank you Mr. Al Sharpton. Pagones won a defamation case but has still to get paid by Mr. Sharpton ______ In 1987, black teenager Tawana Brawley claimed that six white law enforcement officers abducted and raped her. Those claims and others that her attackers had scrawled racial insults on her body and smeared her with feces were declared a hoax by a grand jury that also exonerated the man at the center of the accusations, then-assistant district attorney Steven Pagones. Pagones was named as one of the attackers by Miss Brawley's advisers: Maddox, the Rev. Al Sharpton and lawyer C. Vernon Mason. While Miss Brawley refused to speak with authorities or the media, her advisers were soon making wild claims. Jury selection was supposed to have started for the Pagones’ defamation lawsuit, seeking more than $150 million from Miss Brawley’s three advisers when Maddox accused then-state Attorney General Robert Abrams of masturbating over photos of Miss Brawley. Sharpton compared Abrams, a Jew, to Adolf Hitler. All three linked then-Gov. Mario Cuomo to organized crime and the Ku Klux Klan. But the grand jury within a year announced the story was a hoax and specifically cleared a Fishkill police officer and Pagones. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-24-2003, 06:17 AM	#4 (permalink)
simonttx Upright Location: Italy	it could happen but it's nothing comparing a man that ropes a woman... __________________ Simo free music 4 free music lovers

07-25-2003, 11:52 PM	#17 (permalink)
daoist Crazy	heh that's just the question at hand: who's the victim? if the prosecuter is right, the accuser is the victim. If the defendant is right then the defendant is the victim. Of course there is the posibility of a 3rd option that hasn't recieved much discussion: What if she was honestly mistaken? __________________ I:IV:XV

07-27-2003, 02:17 PM	#18 (permalink)
motdakasha Hiya Puddin'! Miss me? Location: Silicon Valley, CA	I agree that it isn't rocket science. I have no respect for either rapists nor those who make false accusations. It's the whole boy who cried wolf scenario. If too many people claim rape when it's not true, not only are people desensitized to this horrible crime, but you are wasting time that could be spent pursuing a legitimate rapist. __________________ =^-^= motdakasha =^-^= Just Google It. BA Psychology & Photography (I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)

07-24-2003, 03:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
wario Insane	It's kind of a crime already. If she actually tries to take you to court about a false rape and she lies under oath, that's perjury. And then there's always libel and slander. Though I don't know the punishment scale for any of these, so it's tough to compare.

07-24-2003, 07:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
dimbulb Riiiiight........	In some cases, they keep the names of the alleged victim secret until the trial is over, but paste the name of the ALLEGED rapist all over the papers. Something is definitely wrong with that. So it might prompt other "victims" to come forward, but.... It's REALLY hard to clear your name/reputation after its been dragged through the mud by the press, and its not fair that the accusers are allowed annonymity. I agree that rape victims should have anonymity in court, because it is such a humiliating crime, but I think that rapists should enjoy anonymity as well.

07-24-2003, 07:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
pmb145 Crazy	I truly feel that an innocent man being accused and tried of the crime of rape is just as much a victim as a rape victim. It might not be the same physically but it is the same mentally even when vindicated by the courts. Also, innocent men are sometimes failed by the courts and are sent to jail. I am not taking rape lightly, it is a horrible crime, I just feel falsly accusing someone of rape is just as bad.

07-24-2003, 08:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
pmb145 Crazy	Thanks Donkeypuncher, that is what I am saying. But it should be made clear that guilty people get off, it should have to be proven that flase accusation was malacious.

07-25-2003, 02:20 AM	#12 (permalink)
tenchi069 Lost Location: One step closer to the padded cell...	Everyone preaches Innocent until Proven Guilty, but very few practice it. I myself fall into this category. I can't say I'm completely comfortable with it, but in the instance of rape I would rather be judgemental that inactive. My example is this. How many of you would let your sister or daughter date a man that had been indicted on a rape charge, but the evidence showed he didn't do it so charges were dropped? I'm not asking that you actually reply. Just food for thought.

07-25-2003, 10:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
erion Psycho	I'm all for going back to the code of Hammurabi, where if you brought a claim or accusation against someone in a court and could not prove your claim, you were put to death. Your lawyers joined you in that fate. It would clean up a lot of the bullshit lawsuits that clog the court systems and it would limit these false accusations that people know will ruin a person's reputation because the news media jump all over any sex-related story like flies on shit. I would also love to see it required that a media outlet devote as much space / airtime reporting the innocence of a suspect who is cleared as the do reporting on the alleged crime and trial. It's a concept they allow for politicians all the time (required by law, I believe) called "Equal time". The media would be a lot less aggressive reporting shit that is not proven if they knew they'd be forced to run a 1 minutes taped statement every 15 minutes for a month or print a full page statement for a week saying that none of the stuff the reported about the suspect ended up being true. And I love how the simple word "alleged" is supposed to exonerate them from this responsibility. You never really process that Scott Peterson allegedly killed his wife and their unborn son. Your mind processes that he did it. You read that and your mind says "Scott Peterson killed his wife and their unborn son. "Alleged" is like tissue paper armor. It's there, but it doesn't really do anything.

07-25-2003, 11:02 AM	#14 (permalink)
Marius1 Loser Location: Wales	Simple solution. If a woman accuses a man of rape neither name should be released. Weapon aspect eliminated and attention seekers or extortionist's won't get the attention they are after (so hopefully won't waste people's time).