Trinket

Hello everyone!

Here's the story. My boyfriend and I have been dating for just over two years now. I'm twenty, and he's twenty-one.

Recently my laptop had been in the shop, and my boyfriend was sweet enough to let me use his laptop for a paper I was working on. Once I finished the paper, I emailed it to myself and then moved it to his Recycle Bin. When I was about to clear the Recycle Bin, I noticed there were other things with it and opened it up so my boyfriend could see if he wanted anything that was still in it. This is when I saw some pictures of my friends, some of his exes, and my roommate. I asked him for an explanation, and he came clean and admitted that he had pictures saved on his computer of those girls to masturbate to.

This all happened about two weeks ago. I tried to explain to him how much it hurts me (and weirds me out, frankly). He doesn't like that I'm upset, but he's not sorry, and he doesn't see anything wrong with it. I don't care if he masturbates and looks at porn, just not of pictures he knows in real life. He's told me these girls don't mean anything to him, and I KNOW he loves me. I asked him to delete them, and he won't. When I asked him why, he was extremely angry and said "because I don't want to." I feel like if these girls/their pictures didn't mean anything to him, and the pictures are really just an easy fantasy, why won't he delete them?

Our sex life is healthy, and I try to ask him now and then if there's anything I can do to spice it up, etc. I asked him the pictures had anything to do with him not being satisfied, and he said our sex life was great.

I feel bad I came across the pictures in the first place, but it really was just a coincidence. I don't want to break up with him, but I have to admit, this is a huge blow to my self-esteem. I guess I'm mostly just confused about the situation, and I don't know how to handle it either.

TheCrimsonGhost

dlish

if you're even thinking of breaking up with your boyfriend over this, then you're obviously not in the right position to be in a relationship.

you infringed on his privacy ( rightly or wrongly) and you're backing him into a corner. ultimatums dont work in relationships, and if they do, they're often the cause of the breakup.

sometimes a guy just wants to fantasise. no harm, no foul. thats all it is really. a fantasy.

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Cynthetiq

It may be coincidence that you found them but it isn't coincidence to how you reacted to it and are still processing it.

It's a photo, it's probably even of them being dressed and clothed. So what.

He had a life before you. He had sex before you. He probably had some really good sex before you. He probably whacks off to that too. Should he stop that as well?

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KirStang

IIRC, a large percentage of partners fantasize about other people when having sex. So long as he isn't acting on these fantasies, IMHO, there's no real harm to it.

I know I'm adding to the chorus of male opinions here, but consider that you technically 'snooped' through his recycle bin, then confronted him about it. Bear in mind that these weren't things like, love letters to ex lovers, or other signs of unfaithful behavior.

From a guy who's experienced these things before--we like to keep some privacy and absolutely *HATE* it when a woman snoops through our stuff and confronts us about it. I had an ex who would dig through my computer, find pics of my old relationships, and tell me to delete it, or else she would throw a huge fit. This would probably explain why your boyfriend snapped at you.

In short:

1.) Don't snoop. It violates a boyfriend's trust, and impinges on his privacy.
2.) If you want to confront him about it, don't tell him to delete whatever sweet memories he may want to keep.
3.) Be more secure in your relationship. If a person wants to cheat, or, anything, there's nothing you can do about it. Accepting that, and accepting that other's infidelity reflects nothing on you is one of the most liberating acknowledgements.

Plan9

Well, at least he's honest about it. Obviously not as much shame in him as other guys that have been brow-beaten by anti-masturbation girlfriends.

For most men, masturbation is about a quick 'n easy release and has absolutely nothing to do with their relationship with their current partner, sexual or otherwise. Your roomie/friends hot? Easy masturbation material... like a Sears catalog. If women were content with the guilt-free five minutes of pounding and a nap, men wouldn't masturbate nearly as much. Even though my partner is almost always up for sex and is pretty accommodating to my freaky needs, I still masturbate rather frequently because I would be doing her a disservice if I just oil derrick'd her on the bed, rolled off and went to sleep. I respect her and her needs when engaging in intimate activity... and sometimes they just take too damn long with all the foreplay-to-foreplay cuddly shit. And let's talk about that for a minute. Sometimes I get NSA blowjobs on the couch, but I'm not going to demand them whenever I get frisky.

And I'll second KirStang's "Stay out of my shit" comment. Seriously. I had two insecure, paranoid partners that felt completely justified in telling me what I was allowed to do/have. Ironic considering the fact that both of them ended up cheating on me later. Harlots*. I guess real sex trumps masturbation fuel, huh? Don't be a snooper if you're living in a world where your man only orgasms looking at you. Turns out reality isn't as fluffy as you'd like.

* I still masturbate thinking about them all the time.

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MrFriendly

I'm a bit conflicted on this.

I can actually understand why the OP would get a little weirded out about finding the photos. Look, it's one thing to whack off to porn or entertain the odd fantasy of people you know, but to keep photos is a little off in my view.

All credit the boyfriend for being totally honest. But still, if I were the OP I'd probably get a little pissed off.

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Trinket

Hey everyone!

I appreciate your feedback, everyone! I've really re-thought it. I mean, it doesn't stop it from hurting, but you're right- it was an accident I came across his private stuff, and I shouldn't hold it against him. I'm still pretty hurt, but I'm not bothering him about it anymore.

Thanks for the advice/feedback/comments!

TheCrimsonGhost

My response that was lost somehow, in a nutshell:

Sound pretty weird to me, being a guy. I look at porn for the visual stimulation, but the point of porn is just to help get things done. Looking at pictures of people you know I think says a lot more about what he is doing, I think he is certainly attached to these people and is partaking in something much deeper than just visual stimulation. Sounds like some pretty weird fantasy stuff to me. Not that other guys don't do this, but I don't, and have never heard of any other guy that has.... pretty weird. I don't want you to break up with him just cause I say it's weird... but if you think it's as weird as I do, it might be a good idea. I really think it's not as innocent as he wants you to think, seems to me he is having relationships with these girls in his head, in depth fantasies, not just gettin his rocks off like a normal guy would in a porn fueled masturbation session.

Plan9

OP, maybe you should share these thoughts with him. Or this discussion. Make sure that you iron out all issues now so you don't build any resent later.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

KirStang

God Damn I can't believe I'm sharing this with total strangers:

Sometimes straight porn is fucking boring. Sometimes looking at an acquaintances hot legs is sufficiently kinky for me to get my rocks off. However, I'm never going to act on that. In the grand calculus of things in my relationship--the trust, the bond, the shared experiences and cumulative happiness far outweigh dropping my dick in to some acquaintance for a 50 minute (hey...it's my post) thrust session.

I hope your boyfriends rational. And I hope your boyfriend does the whole cost benefit thing. Seeing Lela star get banged 150 ways gets old after a while. If you trust your boyfriend then you know he won't act on these fantasies.

Unless, as Plan9 said, there are issues that need ironing out.

Cynthetiq

really you don't think about boffing your friend's hot girlfriend? or your ex girlfriend that did that move that made your toes curl?

cuz damn, that's weird if you don't.

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TheCrimsonGhost

Honestly, no, and I really don't think it's as common as you make it sound. Looking at porn of people you don't know, for the visual stimulation, because without it you wouldn't be able to make yourself cum, that's all I know other than real sex. She didn't say this dude has nude pics of her friends, and I assume if he did she would be even more upset, so I take that to mean he is masturbating to fully clothed pictures. Yeah, I think that's pretty weird, and denotes a deeper connection to the people in the pictures than just visual masturbation material.

Cynthetiq

Before there was accessible porn, there was just pinup girls.

So whacking off to some clothed photos of Alyssa Milano while you imagine you're banging her or she's sucking you off to get a salt malt isn't weird, but thinking and doing the same thing with a photo of your girlfriend's hot trampy friend is?

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TheCrimsonGhost

Well I guess it might be kind of a relative situation then... so does OP's boyfriend have internet access to porn? Or does he need to jack off to clothed pictures of her friends?

PS! I am goin to bed, but I had a final thought, being : If I were to even try to jack off to clothed women, I don't think it would work. Maybe I am the one with the problem, having watched too much porn. It still wounds weird to me.

Cynthetiq

That's kind of the point. If that's what gets him off and he's not hurting anyone why is it weird or wrong? He's not actively trying to bang these friends or exes.

So what if he has access to internet porn? Isn't the idea that a fantasy is just that and the fantasy is the excitement no matter what it is?

Is fantasizing about a threesome actually cheating? Because by the line you are walking that's about where that ends up.

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Charlatan

You say you ask him if there is anything to spice up your sex lives...

How about narrating a hot story to him the next time you are fucking him. It could feature the two of you and one of the ladies in the photos... it might just scratch his itch.

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mixedmedia

I think I'm pretty open minded about fantasy and porn and masturbation, but I would be a little 'weirded out' if I found out my boyfriend was keeping pictures of my friends to masturbate to. Old girlfriends is different. to me. They've actually had sex with them.

I mean, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. Plus, are you absolutely certain that masturbating repeatedly to pictures of people you know will not affect your relationship with that person? I have a little experience with this and I say, yes, it most certainly does. All claims to the steely, detached nature of male fantasy notwithstanding.

I think, as with all things, it depends on the person. And, ultimately, if he's being a dick about it, I would be more concerned about that than the pictures themselves.

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PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

MrFriendly

MM, though I could be speaking only for myself, but guys will think or fantasize about nearly every woman in their life. Women I'm sure do it all the time as well. I think it's perfectly natural and nothing to worry about because most of the time it will never be acted on.

But keeping a photo of an actual acquaintance for the purpose of masturbating, I dunno, it just seems a little off to me, it just makes the fantasy just that little bit more 'real'.

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monkeysugar

I'm making a general blanket statement, which could be completely accurate or completely false. Somehow though, I really don't think I'm in the minority on this one. When I masturbate, I'm not always (almost never) thinking about my girlfriend. Sometimes it is a "I'm beyond horny and don't want to treat my girlfriend like a hole in the mattress" thing, sometimes it's just a general maintenance "watch porn or consult ye olde mental spank bank" type of thing. Sometimes there's just a perfectly good boner that needs taking care of in the morning. I could go take a leak and it would go away, but it's much more satisfying to rub one out and then hit the bathroom. I don't personally keep pictures of my ex girlfriends on my computer, but I do have a really vivid photographic memory. While i understand your concern and that you might be hurt by the fact that he has pictures of ex partners and your friends...yeah...the pictures thing is kind of odd, but flogging the dolphin to thoughts of his ex-partners and people he finds attractive? Totally normal. Sorry.

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mixedmedia

I know this to be true and I was speaking only about the possession of the photos and the apparent reluctance to let go of them. There is a line that can be crossed when fantasizing about a woman you know becomes something less innocent and more creepy.

In this case, when he 'became extremely angry' when she asked him why he wouldn't delete them, that sends up a red flag for me. It's not an unreasonable question. I would be curious, too.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Trinket

I mean, that's my biggest worry. I feel like if he's not happy in our relationship, he needs to talk to me about it or end it. Of course, I really don't feel that's the case. Our relationship (up until this), has been really happy and really strong. We have the occasional arugment, of course, but nothing big.

I want to, I'm just deciding what exactly I want to say to him. I want him to know how much it hurts me, but I really want to know why he got so upset when I asked why he wouldn't delete the pictures. I'm also wondering if it might be better to just give myself a couple weeks to get over it and suck it up.

After reading all of these posts and yours, I agree that the old girlfriends isn't as bad as I thought. It makes sense. My friends and roomie, however, are going to be hard for me to be understanding about.
I'm really concerned about the way he reacted. I just feel like if they really mean nothing to him as he says, he wouldn't have gotten so mad about it.


For everyone else who says it's normal for guys to fantasize about girls they see everyday (including my friends, etc.), I understand that a little better now. Honestly, the fact that he's harboring pictures bothers me more then anything else. Another thing that bothers me is that he hasn't ever downloaded any pictures of me. I can't be that unattractive to him if we're having sex and we've been dating so long, right?

spindles

He hardly needs pictures of you - he has the real thing.

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MrFriendly

I reeeeeeeeally think you need to sit down and talk to him and let your feelings known. You shouldn't have to just suck it up, there should be some understanding and compromise from both sides.

Honestly though, his refusal to get rid of the photos is a concern, but also consider this, he probably got mad because he was on the defensive foot and probably very embarrassed about it.

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Chumley

My 2 cents, it may be tough to get past the "embarrassed/defensive" part from his side. In a way, it comes down to: can you live with it or can't you? What can he say to help you decide that? If nothing, then the conversation may go nowhere. Not to say you still shouldn't have it, but you should understand what you're trying to get from it.

If you think it's creepy that he has these pictures no matter what he says, he is in a no-win situation, which may be what he feels and he may be afraid that nothing he can say can help, and is more likely to make things worse (and he may be right). And you may still never feel better about it. OTOH if you can live with it but want to understand better, you need to have calm conversation about it, which may not be easy at your ages. Either way, it's not easy...

I hope I said something there, lol..... good luck!

jewels

Why not share fantasies? Ask him what gets him off about the photos and while he describes his fantasy, seduce him!

There are one or two encounters from many moons ago that still get me going. Whenever I share them, inevitably there's a twinge of jealousy for a moment, but relaying the details gets us both going and then he recognizes that the past encounter is now fodder (yeah, probably the wrong word!) for our passion, so the jealousy is gone when it's re-enacted with him. It's a win-win as the memory is phenomenal and reliving it over and over again is amazing, plus he keep asking to hear about it again.

Use it to your advantage. He keeps his fantasy and you can share in it.

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Jinn

I think you should be glad that you have a boyfriend who was candid with you about their purpose, because that saves you a whole lot of time spent pretending and resenting. I really think it's unreasonable to be upset about something you found while looking through his things that he was honest about. Especially things that are his own personal thoughts and actions. Policing someone's thoughts or fantasies is a dangerous game. My girlfriend can think, imagine, visualize, fantasize banging any dude she wants. Until she actually *does*, I really have no room to speak.

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counterpoint

Trinket,

I believe that you and him need to talk about this further. If he gets defensive, then try an alternate approach to ask him the question. Don't poke and prod at the subject, especially if you're just going around in circles.

If he didn't love you, he would have made some sort of escape route a long time ago. I think pictures are harmless, and as long as you're absolutely certain he's not acting upon these pictures, everything should be okay. When it comes down to it, you're so much better than simply just a picture of your friends or your roommates. You have to remember that in his eyes, you're golden, and sometimes, when you're unable to be there for him, he might just want someone familiar who he finds attractive to fill the void.

It's possible he's doing this so he doesn't lose his luster for you, too. Sometimes, men lose their interest too easily for the one they're with. He may not want to leave you, and wants to preserve your sex life.

levite

My $0.02 is that I happen not to think there's anything wrong with keeping pics of people one knows for masturbatory uses. And this includes people one's partner knows.

That said, if my wife told me that she was uncomfortable with my doing so, and asked me to get rid of the pictures, I would do so. I would probably also want to be in process with her, to help her feel better and more comfortable about it, so that I could get some more pictures and begin using them. But I would not do so until she was okay with it.

There is a balancing act that has to happen: a guy needs to be willing to really commit to the process of relationship, and establish compromises for comfortability with his partner, and sometimes that involves restraining ourselves in ways we might not otherwise do. But at the same time (speaking now of hetero guys, since that's what I am and know best, though I assume similar principles apply to gay dudes), we're guys: we tend to look at all women. We tend to fantasize about anyone or everyone female. We will wank about anyone female we are legally able to have sex with, and sometimes females we're not legally able to have sex with. None of it means that we would actually have sex with anyone but our girlfriend/fiancee/wife. It just means we're still alive. And our girls have got to make room in their compromises for that.

To be honest, I don't mind when it runs both ways. I know that some of my exes were scoping my friends and relations and flicking the bean about them later. I don't think they kept pics, but I presume that's only because women often seem to relate to pics differently than men do, and are better able to keep mental images in masturbation. But hey, if you want to scope my pals, or even keep some pics of my pals in order to make your dip-and-swish better...I say go for it.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

Tusko

weird, i only ever fapped to my (ex) gf
still do
ugh

it basically just gave me fuel for what we'd do next time we saw each other

Ourcrazymodern?

If it would be okay if they were pictures of strangers, you've got a problem. Examining your concepts of ownership is in order. Do you allow him to access your fantasies?

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mixedmedia

This is what I am getting at.

It is unfair for the supposition to be she needs to get over it or be strong enough to turn it into a sex game. I mean, how can you just turn it into a sexual fantasy if you're bothered by it? Not only might that not be possible but it could be harmful. There has to be an acceptance that her feelings are valid and can be accommodated for - and the same is true for him. And part of that is being able to put into words your feelings and motivations. They may be young, yes, but it is part of growing up.

If there is nothing wrong with it, then talk about it.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Ananas

You have a roommate, so I assume he sees her on a frequent basis. Do you feel "strange" when your roommate and boyfriend are in the same room together now? Ditto for the friends. Have your relationships with your friends changed because of this?

Have you told your roommate and friends about this? If so, how did they react? How do you act around these people now, knowing that your boyfriend not only has pictures of them, but uses their pictures to fuel his masturbation fantasies? If it's making you feel uncomfortable around your friends (and him), then that needs to be explained to him (again). It's a relationship, should be built on trust, comfort, understanding, compromise, etc. I think it's time he compromises, respects your feelings about this, gets rid of the photos, and finds some new (preferably unknown to both of you) subjects to store on his computer.

I think he transgressed the bounds of a relationship. It's one thing to have private (or even shared) fantasies about friends or other people close to us, but it sounds like he's being an opportunist when he decides to make these fantasies into stored images. He wouldn't have met these people, except through you, so taking photos of them (you didn't say how he got the photos) to add to his permanent collection for his secret masturbation purposes doesn't sound that good - at all. This isn't fantasy at all - fantasy would connote impermanence; the fact that he can constantly return to stored images does not spell impermanence to me. I bet you're going to be extra sensitive next time you see him shooting pics of your friends at a party.

He wasn't being too open and honest about this activity in the first place; otherwise, he would have told you up front. His reaction when you asked about the pictures says quite a bit -- he acted guilty. If these are your standards, then you live by them and do not adjust them to accommodate someone else who, quite frankly, may not be around for a significant period of your life. Sounds like he's got some maturing to do in regards to relationships and friendships, how they should work, and how to maintain them.

Just my 2 cents.

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it's gritty

gooder

There is a fantasy kink out there among us guys, where he whacks off in front of a group of women who are clothed and he is nude. It spices it even more when the women are ones the guy knows.
It is not that uncommon, lots of us guys were given this kink by growing up with women that invaded our privacy when we were little guys. And hell a lot of guys like to wave their dicks around in front of women. We think its sexy or something but it seems like sometimes women get pissed off about it. So it goes private.
He is probably shy about wanting to do the jerk in front of you and your roommate so he just looks at pictures when he is alone fantasizing. There is more to this than just being sick pervy, it is a real fantasy thing that some guys have.

Plan9

Uuuuuhhh... what the hell?

May I suggest you read this post on male masturbation to gain some perspective. I linked it above and I think it helps explain the issue well.

Let's, for the sake of argument, suggest "No" because everybody involved is an adult.

Say what? That's just straight rude and totally out of bounds. Fantasy is fantasy. If I told every woman that I've ever masturbated to that I've done such, I probably wouldn't have any friends between the women themselves and their partners. Society has this complicated system called "tact" where we don't truth the shit out of each other because despite what we're taught in grade school, telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth doesn't apply to real life. How does telling the roommate/friends help this girl deal with her boyfriend's masturbation fantasies? It just pisses everybody off.

Paradox time: Let's say this girlfriend never "snooped" and never discovered the pictures, does it change how the boyfriend masturbates?

And great, let's have the insecure women of the world dictate to what their boyfriends should be masturbating. In some cases, not at all.

Are you suggesting that the OP should hop on Reddit's GoneWild and get some similar-but-not fap material?

That's ridiculous.

Because stored images are a much greater crime than fantasy? I think the fantasy is the disease, porn just the symptom.

And fantasy doesn't connote impermanence for many of us. I've cuffed the cervix-stabber to the same fantasies for years.

Why should be honest about a private habit? Masturbation is a private habit for many men because some women make it shameful.

That'd be like a woman confessing to thinking about a former lover during sex. What good does it do the relationship? Oh yeah, none.

...because some women make it shameful.

So it's okay to fap to pictures of one thing but not the other? And being honest shows this guy was a lot more mature than I was the last time I was "busted." Any man that can deal with an invasion of privacy like that without flipping a shit is a smooth operator. "Yeah, I beat off to it. So what?" Giant brass balls. Guy definitely hasn't been beat down by society's conundrum of XXX Porn Everywhere but Masturbation is Shameful bullshit. Hallelujah.

The best approach? "Yeah, I masturbate. And you watch chick flicks. Same goddamn thing. I don't need justification. Or your dirty looks."

I'd like to buy this dude a beer.

...

In the spirit of full disclosure, I should state that I haven't masturbated thinking about anybody in this thread. Hope that helps our future discussions.

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"You should not drink... and bake."

KirStang

Just think of it as if you had stumbled across his diary. There's private stuff in there not meant to be found, or shared.

Ananas

The rule to follow is go outside your immediate circle of friends to find your masturbatory specimens. No one is saying don't masturbate, just show some respect to your girl.

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it's gritty

levite

I never heard this rule. And while I've never had pix of my girls' friends or whatnot to use, I've also never denied thinking of them when I'm milking the cobra. Never had any problems, but, as I said, pix are enough in the grey area where, though he may not have done anything objectively wrong, he should still be willing to give them up at least temporarily until they work through her feelings about this and how to deal with it in their relationship.

But I really don't see a followable rule here. I have never met a guy who didn't have a couple of his girl's friends "in mind" from time to time, or a sister, or sometimes even a mother. Long as it's purely masturbatory and private, I can't see an issue.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

Plan9

Anybody else find Charlatan's advice a little disturbing or am I just drunk on stupidity again?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

levite

Disturbing? No. But then again, fuck talk has never really floated my boat, with the exception of a couple of scorching phone/IM sex escapades.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)