cajeff

Well, I've been a reader but none poster on this forum for awhile but now I need help so here I am.

Statistics...
Me 23, Her 23
7 years together

Our first few years together we would have sex several times a day and in every place imaginable, ie bjs in cars, theatres, parks, etc... As time moved on it became 5-7 times a week with a day in between every now and then, perfectly fine. Lately, it has become 2-3 times a week at best and nothing during that time of the month, a bj or handjob if I'm lucky.

As a young guy I have a high sex drive and find that it seriously affects my sleep, mood and daily life if I do not have something (sex, bj, handjob, etc..) once a day, or at least more often than now. I have talked to my girlfriend about this and she just says I am a nymph, I say I am a young male and its natural.

I recieved an email with a link to a sex drive article from her with a personal message attached saying 'This is a really long article, but I'd like you to unerstand the part about showing affection without the pressure of having sex. And how that is a type of fore play that women need for good sexual desire. It also explains that to men sex is their way of showing affection and connecting, which is what you've been saying. But I need you to meet me in the middle and realize that putting pressure on me makes me draw away from you and not want to touch or cuddle with you. I know that it's not just sex to you, but it becomes just sex to me without that "innocent" touching.
I love you honey. I want to fix this between us.'

Now here is where the problem comes in...She has mentioned all of this before, so I have tried many times. Not mentioning sex or sexual acts for weeks at a time. The result is that we have sex a 2-3 times a week, and after a few weeks of this I really need more and mention that fact and the arguing starts all over again. Sex is not only a way for me to feel connected to her but I cannot sleep without it. Masturbating doesn't do much, as it's the connection I really want.

What I'm I to do when she says not to mention it and I will get more, so I don't mention it and recieve the same amount (2-3 times a week). I should mention that it is not like I am not satisfying her, she typically has 2-4 orgasms each time we have sex. When I have to wait I do not feel connected to her because it is more the satisfying of the buildup at that point and I end up cumming quicker because it has been a few days.

Sorry for writing a novel...Opinions please?

shakran

Sounds to me like you missed the point of her note. She doesn't want you to not mention sex. She wants you to show affection for her without sex being a required reward. Not every hug or kiss has to lead to a romp in the sack, something many guys in their early 20's don't quite seem to get. Women do not want to feel as though they are just a convenient receptacle for your penis. Start being romantic, and start being affectionate just to be affectionate, with no other goal.

f6twister

This is exactly what I was thinking. Do you take time to do anything like hold hands, give her a hug, a random kiss, etc? What about a compliment once in a while? Can you do any of these things without progressing to sex?

This shouldn't be just about your sex drive and your needs. Why is she required to have the same sex drive as you and be ready to satisfy your sexual needs whenever you feel its necessary? Everyone has a different sex drive and hers just must be lower than yours. If you are looking for this relationship to be a long term commitment, you will most likely need to compromise and start showing affection other than sex. Otherwise, find some else who has a sex drive closer to your own.

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cajeff

I do understand the point...but when kissing turns to touching and rubbing and no sex is at the end. What I'm I supposed to do with a hard on. There is a difference between hugs and kisses and turning a guy on to the point they have no choice but to have sex or rub one out. What I was saying is that I will go for weeks being as romantic as can be and not expecting sex and yes I get some, yet the amount is not enough. When I mention this it turns to arguing.

'This is exactly what I was thinking. Do you take time to do anything like hold hands, give her a hug, a random kiss, etc? What about a compliment once in a while? Can you do any of these things without progressing to sex?'

All the time. I tell her she is beautiful, give her hugs and kisses, take walks, cook meals, buy flowers. All without expecting anything, but it is like she does not hear them. I am not all about sex, sex, sex. But it feels rather one way when I do all of these things yet, I am the one expected to change. Can we not meet in the middle.

Janie

I have the same problem with my boyfriend, and f6twister hit the nail on the head. She just has a lower sex drive than you. That is all. Nothing more.

She likely feels very pressured, stressed out about it, and it probably will feel more like a chore to her the more you fight about it. It's a vicious circle, and to break it you have to accept things a bit more. Namely, sex 2-3 times a week isn't "sex life has gone with the wind." Many couples have sex much less than that and manage not to have a crisis over the fact. Yes, it's less than you're used to, but I don't understand why both you and my boyfriend think that sex and libido is going to remain at a constant high for the rest of the relationship. Of course you have sex more often at the start of the relationship. Everything is new, both partners are incredibly excited, and you wouldn't have experienced the heartache that comes with a long-term relationship.

To get you thinking about her point of view, have you thought about what it would be like if you couldn't get it up as often as you used to, and your girlfriend started to get on your case about it. I could be wrong, but I don't imagine it would make you feel very good about yourself, or very willing to have sex.

Of course, I don't know the details, and it's very hard to understand a problem thoroughly without the other person's side. Neither have I found a solution to this problem in my own relationship. But I am just warning from personal experience that if the situation continues as is, at best she will take off and hate you, at worst you will have the crumbling ruins of what used to be a great relationship, and the damage will take years to repair.

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Bear Cub

Hmm, 23 year old has been with the same girl since 16. Sounds to me like you're bored with her, and she's in the comfort zone.

Just might be time to call it quits and live it up a little.

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screamincheetah

Every hard-on doesn't require an orgasm. Get that thought out of your head, and you might become a little less overbearing to your girlfriend. Learn to enjoy being teased a little, knowing that when you get pleased it will be that much better. More than anything though, realize that a kiss, a hug, holding hands, etc are ways to show you care about someone, not just firstbase. Do these things for her with no agenda and enjoy it for what it is. As soon as your GF feels loved and not like just a sex object, the pressure will decrease on her and you will find her to be more sexual in the end. Long story short, love her the way she wants and you will be both end up very satisfied.

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ratbastid

Okay, bubba, you sound almost as stubborn and stupid as I was seven years into my (now 17-year-old) relationship, when I was in much the same fix you're in, so I'm going to put it as straight and brutal as I wish somebody had to me.

Here's the deal: living with you is like being in a sexual pressure cooker. You have no idea. She constantly has the experience of failing to live up to your expectations and disappointing you, and YOUR answer to that is to make her feel even worse. And yet she's trying to have things work out. Woman's a saint. You don't deserve her.

"But!", you cry, "I'm doing all the smoochy nice romantic stuff! Without any expectation that I'll get anything for it! So I must really deserve to get laid for that, right? And when I don't it's a great big problem for me!" Uh hunh. If you stop and LISTEN TO YOURSELF, you might notice that MAAAAAAYBE the whole thing is just a strategy to get you what you want, and a set-up to have her be the bad guy when you don't. And then you wonder why she feels constantly pressured by you.

The "middle" you want to meet in isn't THE middle. It's YOUR middle. Your answer to this is to have her put out more. And all you've got is more and more desperate strategy to try and force that to happen.

Don't give me that "hard dick no choice" bullshit, either. I have one too, and I'm not buying it.

17 years into my relationship (13 married), my sexual needs are met so thoroughly it's ridiculous. And in ways I'd NEVER have anticipated when I was where you are. And what that took was me GROWING UP. Stop being a five year old with a hard-on, and start being a grown man. That's my advice. The minute I did that, suddenly I got what I wanted--including everything I didn't even have the balls at the time to say that I wanted.

ryfo

What ratbastid said.

The_Jazz

Book it. Done.

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FlatLand Flyer

This all sounds similar to my situation with my wife although we never had sex everyday at any point in our relationship.

I never thought that I was getting enough sex. I would do all the nice things like she asked and maybe or maybe not we had sex.

Then she asked me why I thought everything I did should lead to sex. I told her it didn't and that if she liked I would stop "pressuring her to have sex". Once the "pressure" by me stopped, the sex stopped. I got to the point in our mid 20's that we had sex exactly every other Saturday night. It would mostly be initiated by her since she wanted me to stop trying to get laid so much. This irritated the hell out of me.

Eventually this dwindled to once per month. Once she really took notice about how badly this bothered me and I was really considering leaving the marriage, she tried to give me the sex I always wanted. Only problem with that is that I had become so bitter over it that it wasn't fun. It was also obvious to me that her utter lack of sex drive over 10 years meant that while she was trying to please me, she didn't want or desire to do it. Over the course of about 10 years of living together (3 married) we are now separating.

To the OP, I say stick with it for now if you love her. Getting sex 2-3 times a week after seven years together is pretty damn good. However, if you are not happy, get the fuck out before you waste all of you 20's like I did.

Baraka_Guru

...2 to 3 times a week....

...lucky....

(Oh, and what ratbastid said.)

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Charlatan

Get used to having blue balls unless you take the advice that ratbastid is giving you...

And yes, 2 to 3 times a week? A luxury. Try being 40 and getting it a couple times a month if you are lucky.

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Lasereth

I would say that 2-3 times a week is average, even at your age, even for someone with a high sex drive.

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Acetylene

In your first few years together, you were 15. You had nothing important to do, school was probably a breeze compared to the responsibilities you have now, your parents fed clothed and cleaned up after you, your pubescent bodies were brand-new and exciting, and your 'nads were pumping out hormones like Old Faithful.

Now you are 23 and LIFE has reared its ugly head. Stress and work are major buzzkills, and she likely has less than a quarter as much free time now as she did then. Unless she has no other interests in life besides fucking your brains out, then she is going to be spending less time sexing you simply because she HAS less time, even if all other circumstances are the same (unlikely).

It is unreasonable to expect your lady to behave as though she is 15 when she is 23. Period.

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Deltona Couple

Couldn't have said it better if I tried. Welcome to the REAL world of being a MAN and respecting your girlfriend instead of using her for your own selfish pleasure. A relationship goes both ways. And trust me, 2-3 times a week is good. If you can't sleep with a boner, then rub one off and shut up.

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Push-Pull

Yup 2~3 times a week would be heaven for most married guys. Count your blessings or move on.

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Janie

I love you ratbastid, will you marry me?

...

I mean, well done, exactly what I wanted to say

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dlish

ditto...err i mean..well said ratbastid



to the OP.. have you ever a fleshlight?

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RogueGypsy

Go buy the Kama Sutra and read it from cover to cover, then read it a gain, then read it again.

You sound like someone with a mild sex addiction. Which usually stems from the feeling of power and euphoria experienced through sex. The Kama Sutra will teach you ways to intensify and prolong the feelings so you aren't Jonesing for it so often. That is for you (although she's gonna like it too). For her and your relationship find a new interest for the two of you to enjoy. It will bring both of you closer emotionally, which will help her to 'relax' more often, and you to better understand her.

She should be your best friend, why would you want to put that kind of pressure on your best friend?

If you can't just hang-out and enjoy each others company without the pressure of 'getting some', you need to re-evaluate your relationship. People change and neither of you are who you were when you were 16. Adapt and overcome or get the hell out of dodge.

From personal experience; if she once had the sex drive you still have, she likely still does. It's just being crushed by life and responsibility. The more you can do to help her carry that burden, the happier you both shall be. Just try to keep in mind that there are two of you in the relationship, if one is unhappy, the other is likely to feel unhappy as well. It's very possible that your discontent is feeding her discontent and making things worse. Fix yourself and go from there.


Brock


..

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Daniel_

I read this thread when it went up and started to write a post that could be summarised as:

1 - count your blessings, you're getting more than most guys, and bitching it's not enough.
2 - think about her feelings, you're making her feel like crap with your pressure, ease off.
3 - if it's hard, and she doesn't want to help, learn to be a man, and ignore it, or have a wank.

I deleted.

Today I came to post it having decide it was good sense after all, and see that Ratty has said it for me, and pointed out a number of things that I wouldn't have said (but totally agree with).

__________________

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Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

ratbastid

Janie, dlish, I'll marry you both.

Charlatan

Jeez Rat... save some people for the rest of us to marry.

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ShaniFaye

This is just one of the reason's I've grown to love, admire and respect you in the last five years. You're an honor to men everywhere.

To the OP I cant fathom the thinking that just because your dick gets hard you need to get off....I just cant

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Hyacinthe

ratbastid my admiration for you only seems to increase every time I read one of your posts. If you didn't already have the (is it now up to 4 with Janie and dlish?) partner I would ask to marry you as well but now you won't have any time for me

OP

That sentence there and the fact that you did not mention that you were even attempting to be romantic during the original post leads me to believe that you're not trying at all until she mentions it and then you're over doing it. That just leads to more pressure on her, because she knows you don't actually mean any of the little romantic gestures they're just a slightly more suave version of walking up clubbing her over the head and dragging her into your cave for sexorz.

If you have the spare time try to organise a class or something that you know she will like - it gives you two some time together in a social situation where at the same time you're spending personal time together away from your 'normal' social circle. That means you two have time together doing something that she enjoys and will relax her where there is NO pressure on her sexually.

That says that you just want to spend time with her because you love her, not for sex. That's what she's asking for.

As for the woe is me attitude when she's having her period - get over it. Believe it or not a period is not necessarily painless, you can get amazingly intense stomach cramps that can travel all the way through to your spine, nausea, headaches, stabbing pains actually through your genitalia and no matter how you sit, lie, stand you're going to feel miserable for a few days. Hot water bottles and chocolate don't always cut it.

So is any wonder that while she's undergoing this she doesn't feel like jumping you, especially if she becomes more sensitive sexually when she's menstruating? Maybe sexual congress is actually p[ainful for her at that time and you should be freaking grateful she's willing to give you BJ's or hand jobs during that time?


As for BS - if you're tired you'll sleep whether you've had sex or not. An erection is not the mysterious magical thing you seem to be making it out to be. Take your cock off the pedestal you've placed it on and understand that its every desire doesn't have to be fulfilled.

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Starkizzer

I am sooo glad this post was started and I am eternally grateful to all the wise and mature men who have answered this. im2smrt4u and I have been having this discussion lately, it cracks me up. He told me about the post and said that he knew he was never gonna live down the fact that so many people said what I have been saying. I love the boy!

To the OP listen to her and to everyone else here they are wise people and you can learn a lot from them, I know I have. My guy has the same problem it seems, I can always tell when he is wanting/needing some because his mood is very distinctive during these times. I HATE his attitude during these times hes moppy and grouchy and more bitter than usual, is there a chance that you are acting in a similar fashion? If so I can tell you from experience this makes me want to have sex even less. You don't give your kid a cookie when they are throwing a tantrum why do you expect to get sex when your acting this way?

We are 24 have been dating for 6yrs, I was a fiend in the beginning, think I wanted it more than he did. Flashforward six years, I am more stressed, on bc, work, and go to school. Plus to top it all off hes a day person and I'm a night owl, I am horny at 1am, hes in a deep coma by that point. Realize that after this long in a relationship she is comfortable and take comfort in the fact that shes happy just to have you around and sit and keep her company.

Don't push sex, sex shouldn't be the most important thing in a relationship, if it is your relationship will fail. Sex fades true understanding love will only grow. If all you have nourished is your sex life when that fades away you will be left staring at each other wondering what the hell happened. Her sex drive will at some point over take yours...be prepared and hope karma doesn't come back to bite you in the ass.

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Anormalguy

Ratbastid, your situation eventually lead to you having threeways with your wife and with your wife's girlfriend, right? I strongly suspect that your advice would be much different if your patience had lead to you having sex 2-3 times a week, or perhaps twice a month, with only your wife.

cajeff, I agree with the comments that you shouldn't expect sex everytime you get an erection. However, I see a red flag if your girlfriend is only 23 and is already satisfied with sex 2-3 times a week. It's possible that the situation might improve, but that's not something that I would bet on.

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Starkizzer

Not every girl is the same I just turned 24 and I know how she feels. I am in no way frigid, but I am satisfied at this point in my life with sex 2-3 times per week. Being satisfied does not mean that we don't want more but if this is all time and energy affords us I am content just to have my fiance there when I need him. Maybe its just me but cuddling, talking and connecting more on an emotional level is just as sexually satisfying as out right banging one out.

Women and men have different sex drives...point blank and every woman is different. My best friend wants it everyday, while my other friend and her fiance have sex about once a month (they both attend UCLA Law, so not much time). Everyone is different and everyones life puts them in different situations.

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drewpy

well Cajeff - i don't know about you - but I learned alot from your experience. mostly from between what ratbastid and starkizzer said. been married 24 years - aint seen 3 times a week since the early nineties - unlike the ratster, I personally don't expect much improvement for me. but for you who knows by showing a little respect and genuine appreciation, and developing a relationship based on more diverse interests, you may find a good balance and grow to count your blessings. all i know is that i'm gonna watch out for that mopey signal stuff - as starkizzer so astutley identified - and cut that shit out! may very well help improve the situation all around

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Daniel_

You crack me up, friend.

You really think that Rat went from deeply dissatisfied and troubled in his sex life to happy blissful troilism in the space of a day, because his wife hooked up?


To the OP:

Every post you make shows that you are concerned about what is wrong with the woman that you claim to love. Here's a life lesson - love someone for who they are not who you think you can make them.

You need to learn empathy, sympathy, understanding, and giving without counting the cost or expecting reward.

You need to learn to listen to your partner, not your tumescent organ.

You need to learn to want her to be happy so she's happy, not to give the appearance that you want her to be happy so she'll be your cock-socket.

All in all you need to grow up, and have an adult relationship.

If you can fake being an adult and deserving of love, you may find you like it.


And all this talk reminded me of an old joke:

Q: What is the difference between light and hard?

A: I can sleep with a light on.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

ratbastid

Maybe so. I don't deny for a second that I'm the luckiest summbitch on the planet. But think for a moment about whether our boy cajeff here has the SLIGHTEST chance of ending up where I've ended up, given how he's being about it. Given where I started from and my curent um situation, you'd think my advice would carry all the more weight, woudn't you?

Just so your timeline's right, I was dating StellaLuna before lurkette joined us. Not by long, but still. Imagine THAT happening with cajeff's wife's blessing!

Oh, and Hyacinthe? I'd marry you in a HEARTBEAT, babe. Damn polygamy laws.

On related subject, the three of us are having what we're calling a "wedding" in March. Other poly people call such a thing a "commitment ceremony", which sounds a little like they'll put you in a straight jacket at the end of it. So morally, spiritually, the three of us are creating being married, even if it carries no legal status. We're also setting up things like powers of attorney and mutual beneficiary status on insurance and stuff--getting as much legal weight to our relationship as society will stand for.

Janie

I need to use that more often. (pardon the pun)

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Anormalguy

Starkizzer, I understand what you're saying and agree for the most part. My thinking is what if cajeff's girlfriends sex drive continues to wane, will he wind up with a woman who is satisified with sex once a month?



I don't believe that I said or hinted that ratbastid was ever "deeply dissatisfied and troubled in his sex life." I stand by my original post--Rat's advice might be very different if he had wound up in a 17 year long conventional monogamous relationship and marriage.



[QUOTE=ratbastid;2578124]Maybe so. I don't deny for a second that I'm the luckiest summbitch on the planet. But think for a moment about whether our boy cajeff here has the SLIGHTEST chance of ending up where I've ended up, given how he's being about it. Given where I started from and my curent um situation, you'd think my advice would carry all the more weight, woudn't you?...[QUOTE]

Actually, no, I do not. You're in a very unique situation, & I don't see how you can tell cajeff to quit whining, grow up, and be happy having sex 2-3 times a week. I'm also not reading in cajeff's post where he's putting undue pressure on his GF for sex.

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Starkizzer

I think she must feel like she is getting pressure from him or else she wouldn't have sent him the email. There's really no telling why it has changed and since we cannot here her reasoning behind it we can't completely judge the situation all the members here can do is give him some advice.

If anything I hope, cajeff, you can at least take from this thread that there may be things you can do or try not to do to make things better. You obviously cares for her or else you wouldn't have stayed with her for this long. IMO your best bet is to sit down with her and have a calm talk about it and find out if she can give you any real advice or tell you what/if you are doing anything to sabotage your prospects. Try to keep the other aspects of your relationship strong and hopefully the rest will fall into place.

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cadre

I want to point out here that there are many other factors affecting sex drive other than age. Just because she is satisfied with 2-3 times a week right now doesn't mean that it will continue to decline. If she's stressed with work and school that will have a big effect on her libido, not to mention Cajeff's complaints about not being satisfied. Rather than speculating about what her libido will be like in the future, maybe he should be doing what he can to keep from pressuring her.

That sounds great Ratbastid, congratulations.

Personally, I'd say Ratbastid's opinion should carry more weight, after all he has not one but two women in his life.

As for the OP: Grow up. You're not a teenage boy anymore and she's not a teenage girl, things change. You have to be flexible and understanding or you will not get anywhere in an adult relationship. You may be trying to be romantic for a couple days when she brings it up but that doesn't help, it's a constant thing and it cannot be attached to your gratification or it won't make her feel any better. Take everyone's advice, we have a lot of wise members here.

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ratbastid

Thing is, I was. And where things have ended up for me--unique though they are--was a function of how I dealt with it. Obviously YMMV, and I can only speak from where I speak from.

If I'd never grown up myself, and my marriage had headed on the path of what was predictable then, I'd probably be single now and it would be all her fault, and yeah, I'd probably have something very different to say to cajeff. I'd probably sympathize, agree it's a shame those damn women don't wax our poles the way we want, and then we could all cry into our beers together. Instead, I say: grow the fuck up and excuse me while I go have my first threesome of 2009.

You think continuing to whine about his poor hard cock is going to get him what he wants? How well do you think that's been working for him so far?

I never said be happy with sex 2-3 times a week. Other people said that, but I didn't. I don't think he should settle for anything. My point is: it's his job, not his wife's, to make sure things work between them. Whining about things not working and making it her fault will surely keep things as they are or have them devolve. That's literally all I'm saying.

digme

Sex 2-3 times per week is a good amount.

And when you find yourself in a situation where you have a hard dick and don't know what to do about it, go ahead and take care of it yourself and don't put all the pressure on your girlfriend.

JumpinJesus

This was the only response necessary. All the belittling and trivializing that went on in this thread served no purpose.

The guy posts two genuine posts in this thread, and gets treated like a creep who's verging on emotionally raping his girlfriend.

What purpose did that serve?

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spectre

Seeing as I happen to be one of the few who bothered to read the original post before responding, I'll tell you what would have been the standard answer that people used to give around here before the norm became dog-piling on a new member who happened to ask a fair question: communicate.

As ratbastid *used* to say, the first sign of trouble in a relationship is a sudden change in the frequency of sex.

Talk with her. At the foundation of every solid relationship is good communication skills. From the sounds of it, something is going on there that she just isn't comfortable saying. You need to let her know that it's okay for her to be honest and talk about it. She may not open up completely right away, but it's the only way to resolve this. Bottling everything up, for either and/or both of you, is a sure path towards resentment and further problems down the road.

Yes, the mass of postings saying you won't always get laid because you've got a hard-on are correct, but from the sounds of it, you already knew that, you just want to figure out what happened, and that's fair to ask as it's a sudden and unexpected change.


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And now, an off-topic rant about the rest of this thread. I can't even begin to express the level of disappointment I have in this thread right now, but I'm not the least bit surprised. I've been on this site for a long time, at least twice as long as many who like to wax nostalgic about, "the good old days." When the hell did every post become one giant circle-jerk where the entire purpose was for everyone to pounce on the new members who happen to ask a question that doesn't fit into the group-think's narrow world view?

It's these sorts of attack posts on newer members that continue to alienate new members and drive long standing ones away in disgust. You don't agree with the guy, fine, say so, but don't beat and belittle him into the ground and then continue to stomp on him.

That's why I don't bother posting much any more. Seems kind of futile to be the only one who wants to bother to help people while everyone else seems to enjoy ripping them to shreds just to feel better about themselves.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

Anormalguy

Truth .


More truth .

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In a society where the individual is not free to pursue the truth...there is neither progress, stability nor security.--Edward R. Murrow