Willravel

"Survival of the species". And yes, if you have bad genes then we're all screwed because the fedora gene is connected to the recessive "can probably beat godzilla at arm wrestling" gene.

ASU2003

Or maybe it is the 5'6" guy who is all flashy and upfront that has worse genes than the smart, attractive guy who the woman would have to work for and may be rejected. I'll have to read more of the study later to see if they figured out why acquiring certain traits that aren't beneficial would be rewarded.

Who is saying that the loud, obnoxious player types have better genes than the nerdy workaholic? Either person could be transformed into the other. It is all an act. I'm sure I could be all Vanilla Ice and buy a 30k millionaire's lifestyle and bang girls without a care, but I have standards and want monogamy. Maybe they should do a study on the girls who are willing to not have standards and sleep with these 'players'.

These couples are what I feel this study is trying to figure out:
http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/

Martian

I still don't get your overall point. What does survival of the species have to do with the discussion? If we're talking specific examples it doesn't come into play. Survival of the species is only relevant when viewing the larger picture.

Actually, it's a bit of an exaggeration to say I have bad genes. Speaking in terms of heritage, evidence points to my genes being quite strong. It's only the one specific subset that's bad and I only have a 5% chance of passing that on to future offspring.

I should take pictures of my extended family with me next time I go to the bar.

"Baby, look at all of these healthy people. I have strong genetic code. We should totally bang!"

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

sapiens

I don't think that it is semantic. Evolution by natural selection is about changes in gene frequencies in populations. While it's true that our genes share a genetic vehicle (a person), it is the genes that are passed down (and not all of them) via sexual reproduction.

Martian

Well, naturally.

I'm not getting into an 'omg teh science' discussion here. I don't feel it's the proper venue. I maintain my original position. Gene frequencies are only relevant at population level. Of course we don't pass on all of our genes. I cannot mate with myself, and would have no desire to even if I could; the whole point of a sexual species is to promote genetic diversity.

When discussing a mating pair (or a series of mating pairs, as in the source article) the vehicle is what matters. Really, one could argue that there's really only a small subset of genes that are relevant to genetic population and the rest are just piggybacking anyway. We aren't discussing individual gene sets here. This isn't a case where the genetic imperative is a be all end all to the degree that it is in some arthropods (or salmon, or whatever other mate-then-die/eusocial/non-monogamous pair-bonding species you prefer). When discussing evolutionary theory as a whole what you're saying has merit. When discussing it as it applies to the 'bad boy syndrome' it's not relevant.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

sapiens

I'm not sure that I understand the relevance either. If you're talking about group selection, most biologists would argue that it is a very weak force compared to genic selection. Natural selection does not appear to have designed organisms that reproduce for the "good of the species".

That and evolution by natural selection is a very slow process generally. I don't see how it would be possible to judge "bad genes" within a single generation (Or even across 5 or 10 generations).

I don't know anything about the primary article discussed in the OP, but David Schmitt's sample referenced in the OP article is a bit more diverse than 200 18-22 year olds. His International Sexuality Description Project (Schmitt et al., 2003) includes samples from 56 nations.

Martian

Well, yes, it was mostly meant to be tongue in cheek. It was a reference to the fact that had I been born 100 earlier I probably wouldnt've made it to the age of 20.

EDIT -

This may be debatable. I would contend that eusocial organisms are ones that fail to reproduce for the good of the species. Perhaps not completely in line with what you said, but in the same vein certainly.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

ItWasMe

As for the article: They used James Bond as an example. Personally I don't think bad boys would save you, their queen, or their country.

As for nice guys: I've known many "nice guys" who were polite, sensitive, friendly, and do absolutely nothing to indicate that they want more than friendship. I've actually given advice to "nice guy" friends before...dude, ask the girl out. Say the words. It's often difficult to guage their intentions if they don't spell it out, make some kind of move that they would not make on their sister.

On the other hand... I have known "nice guys" who would never make it past my "friends only" catagory. Why? Because I got to know them too well. I saw them with their hair down, so to speak. I know that they really aren't nice guys, even though they seem to think they are. Being a beta male does not automatically make you a nice guy. Neither does being ugly, poor, shy, polite, honest, a social moron, or a host of other things.

True "nice guys" are sweethearts and wonderful to be around, even when they don't think they are being watched or evaluated. Even when they are not shooting for a prize.

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"Ok, no more truth-or-dare until somebody returns my underwear" ~ George Lopez

I bake cookies just so I can lick the bowl. ~ ItWasMe