girldetective

This may seem like a little question, but to me its big.

If you were at an event with your boyfriend and said boyfriend in front of you and seemingly innocent unbuttoned and put something in your girlfriend's breast pocket, what would you think?

If a man stood and unbuttoned my breast pocket I would think he was interested in me.

If you are a man, Im interested in what the scoop might be and what you might be thinking in doing this. If you are woman, Im interested in what you would think if it was you whose pocket was opened, or if it were your boyfriend who did it what you might think.

Thanks.

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PonyPotato

I would be bothered. Whether it was my pocket or my boyfriend.

Why not hand the item to her? Geez.

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Tully Mars

If I unbuttoned any button on a ladies piece of clothing I'd do so because either I was interested or perhaps just extremely close to her, like a best friend thing. But at a public event? Not sure I'd do that in either case.

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SSJTWIZTA

My (big) circle of friends are very close. something of this nature would phase no one. no questions would arise and no awkward looks would be given. but then again, we're not your average group people.

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pig

It really depends on the situation. Was nipple tweakage involved? I can see how it might imply some level of intimacy given breastal proximity - I can also see it being a matter of convenience and friendliness. Like many other things, it depends on the people involved and the body language.

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Manic_Skafe

What'd he put in there - his penis?

If this were my girlfriend doing this then I'd probably be concerned but there really are too many variables to consider before making any sort of judgment.

Why do you think he would do this and why does it bother you?

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Makia

Agreeing with pig here.

Also, if you haven't told him yet that it bothered you, I highly recommend that you do so. Even if it's nothing and you think you're overreacting, the worst thing you can do is keep it inside and let it fester. No need to make a big stink over it, just mention it--frankly, he'd be a much better person to ask than a bunch of strangers on the internet who weren't even there.

Bear Cub

x2. None of my friends would think twice about it, but it all depends on the level of closeness among these friends.

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levite

Have to admit, I'm a little surprised that a guy would do that at a public event, but....

Only reason I can think of for a straight dude to unbutton a chick's breast pocket is because he digs her boobs, and wants to be closer to them. The only way he wasn't interested in your boobs is if you were carrying a smaller, more naked woman in your breast pocket.

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girldetective

The situation was: a piece of paper was dropped, he picked it up, unbuttoned breast pocket, slid paper into said pocket, and then buttoned it back up. No breast play involved. He said, "Here, let me help you", and it happened quickly. It happened at a public event and the pocket and pocketeer had never met before-the girlfriend had introduced them 1-2 hours before.

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f6twister

Based on this information I would question his motives also. Unless this type of behavior is common for him, I would interpret his help as interest in her. You definitely need to talk to him and let him know your feelings.

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xepherys

Hmmm... I don't really see the big problem. I mean, sexually I enjoy breasts. But in day to day living, they're just another body part. Personally, I don't buy into the social stigma of "taboo" physical contact. But, that's just me.

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Plan9

+1 raging hardon

We (most Americans) live in a society where touching is inappropriate because the somehow the female body is 100% sexual, 100% of the time. It must suck to be a woman. You can't do anything for, to, or around a woman without somebody thinking it involves hot-hot carnal sheathing action.

/bullshit philosophy with 2% practical application in real world / relationships

And somehow people say I'm vulgar.

...

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Punk.of.Ages

It's hard to tell what his motives were. It could have been he was simply trying to be polite. Possibly he was a little "over-polite" because he was nervous over something. Maybe there was more to it.

Either way, after 1-2 hours that was awful forward of him.

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girldetective

Manic Skafe
I dont know why he would do this, that is why I am asking. As I mentioned, if it were me being pocketed I would think it was a come-on unless I knew the person as a friend and even then maybe depending on the relationship. I guess I feel sort of like merleniau above who said in her post: I would be bothered. Whether it was my pocket or my boyfriend. Why not hand the item to her? Geez.

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Jinn

Contrary to popular belief, men don't actually have that mythical handbook that tells us how to be 'male', nor do we all agree on what is appropriate/inappropriate touching. Unless it was "rubbing" - more than two passes over the same surface, I'd say any 'touch' of the opposite sex, done in a friendly manner, is benign. But each person on this earth has a different idea about it, so asking a group a 'general' question is far less effective than asking the actual person involved.

It becomes further complicated when you're talking about relationships - what one person might consider benign contact, the other person could consider cheating. The relationship boundaries (which should've already been established) come into play in making a decision on this.

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ShaniFaye

I think you'd be much better off asking HIM

Communication....with each other.....is required in any relationship

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ratbastid

You're asking the wrong people, though. Like you, we can only speculate. If this bothered you--or even just puzzled you--you should be talking to him.


Lol-- again Shani and I think alike.

PonyPotato

Of course this is something you need to speak with him about, as many people have pointed out.

Sure, my "I would be bothered" statement is somewhat influenced by societal standards of the sexual object-ness of breasts and the women who have them. But more directly it is influenced by my personal feelings regarding when and where it is okay to touch another human, regardless of sex. The only breast pockets I have ever felt comfortable unbuttoning, placing an object inside, and re-buttoning have belonged to myself. I would feel comfortable doing so with my SO and perhaps a close friend if specifically asked to place said object in the pocket, but with someone I met shortly before? No way. To me, physical contact of that prolonged type after such a short time is crossing a line, even if it is provoked by what the toucher views as chemistry.

I'd certainly ask him what his motivation was, as well as communicate to him that you are not comfortable with such behavior. Like I said in my first post.. why not hand the item to her?

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— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

fresnelly

Yes is was rather forward and context is everything.

If Bill Clinton did this to Hillary during an appearance on a live national broadcast, her campaign would never recover from the "scandal".

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snowy

The only people I let get away with touching my breasts/chest area in a nonsexual way are small children; they often do it without realizing that their babysitter might not be comfortable with that sort of invasion of their personal space, but they think of bodies in a very different way from adults, and so I cut them considerable slack. I can't say I would be as forgiving with an adult.

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girldetective

I cannot simply ask or talk to him about it otherwise I would. Therefore, I turned to this community for their opinions based on 1) one's take on general society rules, which is difficult because generalities always are; 2) one's own experience; 3) and asking to put oneself in the shoes of another and trying on those feelings; 4) or what might be the intention, or even was one.

My intention is to soak up information about boundaries and values in general and personally, and where my own might fall. We are at a crux in this relationship. One with a chasm needing crossed, where we have to adjust to one another and I am looking at that. He is blatantly pushing me to change the way I look at his behavior. He understands that he is pushing my buttons. He is telling me he doesnt care, that this is who he is. He wants me, and he wants me to accept him the way he is. I know this because I have now pushed him to relinquish information that he is so reticent to give. He acknowledged that it is time. Its time for us both to take steps toward more genuine intimacy and I want to, but Im also reluctant. Im examining that reluctance and wondering if it is valid. Also, what are my values and do I even want to change them. So for me its rather important just now even though i may seem frivolous. Sometimes these are just the things the occupy our minds.

Edit: And, another question this brings to mind is Can one even change their value system t adjust to another's? I dont know this either.

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ShaniFaye

you're in a relationship with someone you cant openly communicate with...why?

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Redlemon

Unless you are intentionally entering some sort of master-slave relationship, what you just described sounds incredibly abusive. Is he also trying to separate you from your friends, so that he becomes your only emotional support?

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Willravel

If I were with my girlfriend at an event and put something in a pocket that happens to be on her chest, I'd just be returning something to the pocket from whence it came. If I'm going to commit to a PDA, it's probably going to be holding hands, hugging, or kissing.

But that's just me. A more bashful type of person might want his PDA to look like an accident.

cj2112

One can change if they want to change. If the relationship is important enough to them, then they will change, not because their partner asks them to, but because they believe that the relationship is more important than the things they are changing. There are times each partner has to make adjustments in order for the relationship to thrive. That being said, sometimes it's better to walk away, sometimes it's better to make the change, only you can decide which is the case here. I would guess that if you can't talk to him about it, the two of you have much deeper problems than this isolated incident.

Clermont

It sounds like a clear indicator of interest to me. He might be trying to make you jealous to move your relationship forward.
Do you have a history of issues with intimacy, or is there something about this guy that's keeping you from getting close?

telekinetic

I'm picturing the female dropping something while her hands are full (holding a food tray? drink in one hand plate in the other?), in which case, I've probably done that. Would you rather he put it on her butt pocket, assuming jeans? It's a matter of convenience and I would consider it to be roughly on par to fishing someone's keys out of their hip pocket.

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MuadDib

In a vacuum, with just the knowledge that it happened, I would say that it was flirtatious, though not necessarily a real sign of interest. However, the scale could rock either way with more information. For example, what kind of guy is this boyfriend? I, for one, am flirtatious by nature. People who know me, which includes anyone I would consider a true girlfriend, know that it's part of my social personality and find it charming. If he is in some way like that then it most likely means nothing and it is socially acceptable as those who know him probably appreciate that aspect of his behavior.

Another question is if this is something he would do to other girls and, if so, in what context he does it with them. He could just be a touchy guy or not think twice of doing something like this to anyone. On the other hand, if he does things like this to his other friends who are girls in as a semi-sexual expression then again there might be reason to fret. Along these lines, does he do this sort of thing with his buddies. For example, a friend of mine has no qualms randomly putting his arm around men, reaching into their pockets to grab a pack of smokes, or even getting drunk and slapping their asses. While this behavior makes the rest of us a little uncomfortable we know he is completely straight and it's just part of his mannerism, especially when he's been drinking. This behavior also comes out around his female friends, even sometimes ones who don't get it at first and take offense until they realize he does it to everyone.

Last, and perhaps the most important question is, had he been drinking? How much? Guys flirt more when they've had a few and flirt a lot more when they've had a few too many. It doesn't mean anything, but flirting is something guys take pride in and when we become a little uninhibited we tend to do it just for sport and not out of any real interest because we just want to feel like we can get a woman's interest. Granted perhaps we shouldn't do this, but if we're particularly toasty we can also forget import things like context and tact.

In the end though there is no way anyone here can really address this question honestly and accurately. I hope that some of our thoughts, questions, and instincts are things you can roll over in your mind as someone party to the actual events and then verify, answer, or dismiss them through your experience. Best of luck though, keep us posted on your thoughts!

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girldetective

Thanks MuadDib. Your thoughtful answer was helpful to me in that it gave me various perspectives with which to look at it.

When confused and wondering if my feelings are appropriate or if Im under/over reacting to something I sometimes find it helpful to look analytically rather than go with that gut feeling or intuition because people are different and it may take some time to figure them out. You know how confusion is Im sure. Sometimes it just takes a bit of thought and POP!, youre more clear. Im still thinking it through. I really appreciate the various viewpoints.

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ratbastid

I have a gut feeling or intuition that you and your boyfriend need to deal with the communication issues in your relationship--and that it's going to have to start with you.

girldetective

Could it be that since this relationship is somewhat sexually based that he was telling me something, or more likely that it was a attempt to get me ready so to speak? There is a game being played here that i dont understand. Its something Ive never run into before.

With hindsight and not being blinded it occurs to me that immediately after this he took my upper arm and caressed it in the way he does and then he was pretty much beyond attentive all night. My girlfriend whined a little when he took me to the dance floor and sort of wetted herself she felt so good. For me that would be new-to feel like the best one. Again with hindsight I think I have been the best one before, but have not felt it at the time. Is that whats going on here again? Am I growing and figuring myself out? Am I becoming more myself? Can I feel like the best one? Wow.)

But still, isnt his behavior rather disrespectful or is it just playful and Im too sensitive? Is it sociopathic? Is he on the make (it would not be the first time)? What is his game? Im feeling naive and its uncomfortable.

Wow. This is a totally different perspective. (is this how one changes their values? by seeing the same situation in a different light? is that what i am experiencing, while knowing that I am experiencing it? Wow.)

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As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Redlemon

My opinion: I still think that he is trying to tear down your psyche. He wants to become your sole emotional support, so you can not go to anyone else. He wants you to change, and accept his actions without questioning him, so that he does not change. His actions will probably alternate between things that should shock you and total attention on you, to further confuse you. This is abusive.

Question him. Stand up for yourself. If this is a real relationship, you are allowed to have your own opinions.

(Am I the only one who sees it this way?)

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PonyPotato

No, you are not the only one.

If you are going to give in to his demands, go ahead. If you want to, anyway. He may just be "testing" you, trying to get a reaction out of you. He may thrive off of excitement, conflict and may WANT you to react to such actions instead of just accepting them. However, what you have said so far seems (to me) to indicate that he truly wants, as Redlemon said, is to tear down your psyche. Don't let him. Relationships involve compromise, not capitulation by one party and one party only.

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— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

jewels

I think your reluctance is valid, for sure. You are an adult and no one should cause you to question your own values. What is the reason you would want to change your values? I can't comprehend why you'd even think about changing your values unless, in answer to your edit question, you were a hard, unloving, uncaring, monstrous excuse for a human being. I don't see you being either of those.

Based on your recent posts and the posts in this thread, it doesn't sound like it's genuine intimacy he's after. Questioning in order to understand yourself is one thing. But rewiring yourself to fit into his world view is just not right. This doesn't sound like communication or steps towards greater intimacy. Find someone who will communicate on your terms.

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Plan9

+1. This dude has limits and boundaries issues and you need to smack him up like a redheaded stepchild before he decides other activities are hunky-spunky with you, too.

If you're a look-but-don't-touch like most people... make sure he knows and respects it.

And somehow you're in the Army? Damn. How did you block their signals?

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Willravel

World's King

You're over thinking everything.

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Destrox

Cant say I see the real issue.

Other than if its bothering you this much, you might be way over protective. Which will end up just hurting your relationship. (Note: HE NEEDS TO KNOWS THIS! Else it wont get better.)

Some people are not bound by our lovely cultures "touching is bad" idea.

I for one definitely am not. There is a BIG difference from touching someone with intent for sexual purpose vs what it is you described.

He put something in her pocket, you gave us so few details.

Such as, some of my fiends who are mostly female, I wouldn't even think twice about putting something in their pockets. And if its being done for humor, shit, there's even less rules to apply.

Chill m'kay? Over thinking causes more damage than its worth.

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girldetective

Interesting thing happened tonight. I actually communicated. I casually asked him about it and he said he didnt remember doing that. He said that he would remember if he had done something like that. He said that I was imagining it. He said it was someone else who my girlfriend and I met after he left. I quietly negated each of these. He laughed and repeated the above. I told him no that he did do this, that I was not imagining it. He repeated them. I quietly said not that was not the case. He stopped saying those things then, and went on to bring up that it was someone else until I mentioned that we left when he left and we went to my friend's apartment and then I came home (I was driving) - we didnt talk to anyone else. He then said he didnt remember a couple of times. This conversation took maybe 15 minutes and was one of the oddest of my life. I have never had someone not remember something and tell me that I have imagined it or that I was mistaking them for someone else. I mean please - Im going to mistake my boyfriend for someone else!? Anyway, I was just stunned and sat there and listened to the live music that was playing.

It was a bizarre thing. He laughed nervously sometimes during this conversation and I did too. I had the weird feeling that I was catching him in lies and I said Wow I had caught him unprepared, that he didnt have something scripted or a better lie. To me what was stunning was that he put responsibility on mine and my girlfriend's brain function. It was very odd. Who is this dude?

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As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata