QuasiMojo

yyyyeah. I think someone came along to give the "upgrade" on the ol' Old Testament.

If God didn't intend for us to masturbate, he would've made our arms shorter.

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AzAbOv ZoBeLoE

GakFace

I've always taken it as by masturbation, you are wasting what could be life. And I have found that to be utter crap. If you don't masturbate(well ejaculate to avoid argument) and you're a guy, you'll eventually have a wet dream.... which counters the wasting of what could be life. Then there are women. First of, by masturbating, they are not wasting life what so ever, so basically it now sounds like women can masturbate as much as they want, and they'll never ever sin..... weird, what do you think? Oh and to add, that would also mean every month a woman would sin when she has her period... as its another wasted egg. Thus I find nothing wrong with masturbation, as I cannot fathom how one can call it wrong. If it is, then women should do it more, as they would never cast a single sin. (but even if it isn't, they still wouldn't.... hmmmm)

Oh I would like to note. Just because you have an issue with your religion does NOT mean abandon it. Just because one might have an issue in no means gives anyone a reason to say, "Well you just might wanna think about abandoning it" You may have been joking but this IS an advice forum. I don't know a single person who has some sort of issue that they feel out of place with with their religion... and this includes those that DO NOT believe in God...

Religion is simply a place to which one identifies with most. That way instead of having to state all of their views.. they can state the one they follow that resembles them the closest... Basically its one heck of a time saver. That and if it follows your beliefs closely, then going to that church, mass, teachings... etc, would be great, as they believe what you believe.

I mean, say you loved one of the presidence......................... BUT there was one thing that bugged you about it. Well are you gonna think about leaving the country? I mean here's a disagreement, and you live in the country that he looks over..... There's my example to all this.

Later,
----GakFace

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RoboBlaster:
Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

vermin

The Old Testament is all about law. It's a guide to show us what we should and should not do.
The story of onan is about coitus interruptus, not masterbation.
The sin in masterbation comes from lusting after women you're not married to. If you could achieve orgasm by physical stimulation alone, without thinking about or looking at pictures of women, I don't think there would be a sin there.

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If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst.

ganon

Paul wrote in the new testament that we are free from the law, no longer measured according to that "yard stick" so to speak. But he also said that "all things are permissable, yet not all things are profitable for me, and I will be mastered by none of them" He understood that even though, thru grace, he was allowed to do what ever he wanted and still be a christian, it would not be good for him to do what ever he wanted, because these things could end up becoming life controlling issues for him, and for the people he was writing to, and that they would be surrendering the freedom gained for them by Jesus to simply fulfill their drives. The first time I had to be put in a mental hospital, one of the guys in the place had a obsessive compulsive disorder, and he couldn't quit jerking off. I'd say thats a problem. For all christians, catholic or otherwise, their first allegiance has to be to Jesus and the bible, not their church and it's man made rules. What the catholic church believes is dogma, or holy writ, is not neccessarily biblical, and therefore not as relevant as the bible.

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"My give up, my give up." - Jar Jar Binks

Leviathan[NCV]

ganon, if that much is true, beastiality is suddenly an acceptable practice? There are no mentions of it in the new testament. Yes yes, extreme example.
The problem was, and still is with the Catholic church, that your actions can make you more or less holy, which Paul believed to be utter bullshit.

In Genesis 38:8-10, the proper interpretation by some of the more heavily educated biblical man will tell you that he was withdrawing from her, and therefore disobeying God.

Some translations will read something like:

Then Judah said to Er's brother Onan, "You must marry Tamar, as our law requires of the brother of a man who has died. Her first son from you will be your brother's heir."
But Onan was not willing to have a child who would not be his own heir. So whenever he had intercourse with Tamar, he spilled the semen on the ground to keep her from having a baby who would belong to his brother. But the LORD considered it a wicked thing for Onan to deny a child to his dead brother. So the LORD took Onan's life, too.

This particular passage was taken from New Living Translation (NLT). No, this is not the particular version I normally take text from, but just an example. I'm interested in finding the second reference that the sole 'act' of masturbation is in fact a sin.

ganon

What Paul was trying to communicate was that keeping the law was worthless, and that the reason the law was given in the first place was to be the backdrop that revealed to us our sinfulness. He lays it all out in the book of Hebrews (he is purported to be the author, but no true authorship has been identified) He was addressing his letter to the jewish christians that were going back to the law for justification, in insisting that the new converts had to be circumsized. Paul pointed out that in making the converts subject to the law, they were in fact voiding the death and resurrection of Jesus, by saying that it was not enough to truly attone for the sins of man. In romans Paul said that we should not continue to sin that grace may increase, but that we should offer up ourselves as a "living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God" and that the only way we do this act of love for God is by submitting our flesh to his will and purposes. That having been said, yes, you could go nail a critter and still be forgiven, and by no means lose your salvation. It just is not a good idea to do it because it isn't good for you.

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"My give up, my give up." - Jar Jar Binks

Spooo

I dont belive masterbation is a sin. But it does/can create lust, which is a sin.

rosie21

..

josobot

I read some where that the "sin" of hoping for a mate does not appear in the guide by St. Ignatius...smart Jesuits...!

hobo

A bit off topic but you are so awesome because your Avatar is of Alec N, the guy who played Paul Atreides in the Dune miniseries and its sequal miniseries.

Back on topic: Religion considers it a sin. Many things are sins. It is okay to sin, I'm pretty sure it is impossible to live without sinning. Isn't that why Jesus did his thing in the first place? He took the heat for what everyone else does.

Mr Scorcex

Whatever your religion may say, I find that faith is something far to personal to be entirely dictated to you. So regardless of what exactly your religion may or may not say about masturbation, you should rationalize it yourself. It is something entirely natural, and as another said, you'd just have a nocturnal emmision anyway, so it defeats the 'wasting sperm' argument.
I'll also point you to www.jackinworld.com, which had a good essay about dealing with religion and masturbation. I suggest you take a look.

Mel

Basically in religion everything which gives you pleasure is a sin.. But to God this may be different, why would he give us a choice as to wether or not to please ourselves if he considered it a sin, why would he give us feelings?...

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rodgerd

I'm sure a Jew will be along to give you clip around the ear for your presumption shortly...

rodgerd

On one level, I agree with you entirely, but one should bear in mind that in many faiths, it is not considered acceptable for lay members to make decisions on doctrine and dogma.

ganon

To Mel I would say this, that all pleasures are not sins, we are created to enjoy God and his gifts to us, and if it were true that all pleasures were sin, then he would not have blessed the marriage bed the way that he has.
To rodgerd I would say this, there are many different denominations in the protestant side of christianity, and a few variations on catholisism, but our relationship with God is completely unique and personal, and therefore our "doctrine and dogma" is ultimately our responsibility as individuals. When Jesus came and changed our entire world and ability to relate to God, he made it possible for God himself to dwell in us, thru the Holy Spirit. Therefore we no longer need a system of religion to get to God, we no longer have to rely on priests, pastors, and the books of prayers, we have an advocate with God directly thru Jesus, and there is no other mediator needed.

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"My give up, my give up." - Jar Jar Binks

ironman

Masturbation is sex with someone you love, so, it is not a sin. What is a sin is to make it an addiction. I´m a catholic too, and when i confessed the "sin", the priest laugh at me and told me it wasn´t a sin if you do it ocassionaly and it does not end up substituting a sexual partener.

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If I agreed with you we´d both be wrong

elpapacito

You can make your own religion, my dear. One that considers masturbation as a temporary substitute for sex, while you grow up emotionally and mentally and find a partner. You don't harm anybody, you don't limit anybody freedom by masturbating so I can't see what others could complain of. The concept of sin was very likely introduced by somebody in order to have gullible people fell bad about doing something that was considered "illegal" or "evil" by somebody else. But as matter of fact, you don't harm anybody and you don't limit anybody freedom, so where's the whole sin problem ? Scratch it.

Jay Francis

I did some research in a little book I have called The X-Rated Bible that lists all the sexual episodes in the old and new testament. It mentions Leviticus 22:4-7 and states:

Because Israel;s superstitious belief in both animism and blood pollution, it naturally followed that they viewed menstruation in a negative and unfavorable light. They also....viewed semen itself as being contaminating...it was bodily fluid that defiled everything it came in contact with it. In the case of semen the defilement lasted only one day.

It goes on to mention Leviticus 15:16-17 which gives instructions to clean garments that come in contact with semen, implication being nocturnal discharge or masturbation.

So, if the bible includes instructions on cleaning garments, I would guess that emissions by masturbation are acceptable and not forbidden.

themole

Dood I bet Jesus beat his bishop. He was tempted.

ForgottenKnight

If you are Catholic, then yes, it is a sin to masterbate. It is also a sin to look at pornography of any sort. This is according to a book the Roman Catholic religion has on what is and what is not a sin. In a church education class I had through my church, they addressed issues such as pornography and masterbation. They pulled out this book that stated all of the sins, as the bible and the Pope has stated are sins (this book was HUGE!). Perhaps try asking your church if they have a book like it and seeing what it says. Also according to this book, using a condom is a sin as well. Pope John Paul II said that if if you are going to have sex, then you should face the consequenses, thus outlawing condoms and birth control in the Catholic "law book." It is believed that the word of the Pope is the word of God.

I am Catholic, but I do not believe in all of the things that the Church believes in. I do believe it a sin to look at pornography, and a sin to masterbate, both of which I'm guilty of, or I wouldn't be a TFP member. But I also believe that the seriousness of both of those sins together is less than that of premarital sex. I believe that although all sins are equal in the face of God, they may not be equal in the face of Jesus, Mary the virgin mother of God, or the other saints. I believe that the severity of the sins will affect the punishment (either in this life or in eternal life) for the sin. So I would much rather masterbate than perform premarital sex.

I also heard once that you should not pray to God for forgiveness, for God does not forgive. Rather, pray to Mother Mary, Jesus, and the other Saints; they do forgive. I also heard that you pray to the later and to God both, and that all forgive, which is what I believe.

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"People say I'm strange, does that make me a stranger?"

rodimus

look at it this way, if God or whoever created us with the urges, why shouldn't it be part of our lives. it does give both men and women pleasure. isn't that what God wants. for everyone to be happy. i bet those people causing all the trouble in the middle east didn't masturbate enough

blablabrothers

well i have 2 statements, i think that God wouldnt mind masturbating because we keep reproducing sperm from when we hit puberty until we die, if he didnt approve of it, he would have changed the time that you would produce sperm

my other thing is that i think adultury is when a married man and a woman or a married man and a woman have sexual intercourse, i dont in anyway think that adultury could be linked to masturbation, but i dont read the bible after being taught to. i should though.

trialzin

I think if your viewing porn on the internet and I guess from you being here yu are like the rest of us, masterbating is the least of your worries if your worried about God and sins. Do you really think any of us are going to hell( if there is such a place) for masterbating? I am no guru on religion but afaik Catholic is the only one that doesn't let priest get married and look what happened with that, do you think for one second that every priest and nun never self gratifies? Faith or no faith its human to have sex and masterbate no belief in the world can stop it and when its tried to be controlled as in the catholics look what the Preists turned too and you know what I am talking about. If it wasn't meant for us to enjoy it would feel so damn good no?

Derwood

I haven't read every post here, so my apologies if any of this is repetitive:

1. A basic Christian tenet is that Jesus died for our sins, and that God is loving and forgiving. However the Catholic spin on this seems to be one of control through fear of an eternity in hell. These two ideas don't jive, as the Catholics would have you believe that God is vengeful (like in the Old Testament) and not forgiving (like in the New Testament).

2. Every religion (besides Mormonism, Scientology and a few others) is based on "rules" and viewpoints that are thousands of years old. I find it hard to reconcile this with my own life, as so much has changed over the years. Why hasn't God written any more chapters of the bible in the past 2000 years?

3. There are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of things that the bible considers sin. Most of these are laid out in the book of Leviticus (thus, Levitical Law). Christian Fundamentalists tend to pick out the convenient laws to forward their own agenda, while ignoring others. Abortion, masturbation, homosexuality.....what they concentrate on. They ignore the laws about keeping slaves, sacrificing animals, wearing garments of mixed cloth, etc.

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"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

rosie21

..

motdakasha

I wouldn't be surprised if jesus masturbated.

Sure there are. http://www.ulc.org/
Religions on Premarital Sex

__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)

analog

For my 2 cents, i believe the following...

1. God wants for us all to be happy, but don't interrupt anyone else's ability to be happy to do it (rape, murder, theft, etc.).

2. I have faith. I have a religion, yes, but more importantly I have faith. I know TONS of people who are *insert ANY religion* and have ZERO faith. What the fuck is the point of that? That's not religion, that's you going to a building and repeating words to the front, the floor, and the ceiling.

3. I don't have to attend church to talk to God, to apologize to God for anything, or do anything else- I can pray or sit and chat any time I want at any place I want- because he's always there.

That's about the best thing i've ever heard a person describe it as.

The best representation of the true rules I've seen yet- if you are Catholic, it's a sin, doesn't matter WHAT the bible says- the people here on earth NOW say it is, and so therefore it IS (according to Catholicism). I'm technically Catholic, but I do not agree with some portions of the church's laws because they go against what I believe are the true intentions of God- for everyone to be happy.

Mehoni

According to the bible, it isn't the act pf "masturbation" that is a sin. The whole "spilling his semen to the ground"-thing isn't what made a certain person mad. It was that he didn't impregnate his brothers wife. I haven't seen anything in the bible that says "Masturbation is evil, stay away from it".

Here's a list with that passage from a lot of different versions of the bible: http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/...nguage=english

Hmm.. I prollly shoulnd't even answer this one, sicne I don't belive in any god or satan. But I still feel that it's wrong for people to go around and feel that masturbation is wrong.

__________________
There seem to be countless rituals and cultural beliefs designed to alleviate their fear of a simple biological truth - all organisms eventually perish.

insect2003

yes

Mehoni

Oh, this was interesting.. I was reading Leviticus and here's a funny thing:

They distinguish between an emission of semen alone (ie masturbation) and one with a woman.

Oh, and just a sidenote.. I cannot find anything in the bible about abortion. Help?

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There seem to be countless rituals and cultural beliefs designed to alleviate their fear of a simple biological truth - all organisms eventually perish.

Kyrin

The only thing that sometimes pops into my head and makes me feel kinda weird is; some people I knew (family/relatives, older friends, etc...) are dead... so if they watching over us, what are they thinking while I'm whacking? Thing is, I don't really even know how my mind handles it when it comes into my head, I think I just ignore the thought and carry on, but that simmilar thought comes to me at other times too, "What would <INSERT NAME HERE> think if <HE/SHE> were watching me?", be it sleeping late instead of doing something important, getting outside instead of sitting in front of the computer, speeding in a car, thinking about the sister I don't have, or anything else... it's a tough one.

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My opinions are my own, you may or may not agree with them, but those are your opinions, which I also may or may not agree with.

lived2play

It is a sin for Catholics - if you looked at a woman with lust you already committed a sin in your heart - or something like that to some effect

__________________
Funny, all the people who know how to run the country are either busy driving a cab or cutting hair!

archer2371

See, God knows we're human, he knows we're going to do some things that aren't exactly good for us, but hopefully, after we make those decisions we learn from them. I don't see masturbation as a sin. If it is done too much it can be detrimental to your lifestyle. As Benjamin Franklin proved, it is completely impossible to be completely good 24/7/365. You can wank, just make sure it doesn't get out of control.

__________________
"This ain't no Ice Cream Social!"

"Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it."

"I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

Kyrin

Weird how many people say "24/7/365" when technically that isn't really right... it would have to be "24/7/52", but I guess no one really cares... Just thought I'd pop in with my 2 cents...

__________________
My opinions are my own, you may or may not agree with them, but those are your opinions, which I also may or may not agree with.

GakFace

See, Um I think people are missing something vital here. Unless you believe with all your heart that that there is only one true religion.... the it can't JUST apply to Catholics. And for it to apply to catholics from that standpoint, would then mean catholicism would be the one true faith, as otherwise, simply BEING Catholic would technically be a sin.

Do you see what I"m getting at? Stop saying its ok unless you're catholic, i'm sorry but that not acceptable, with any logic, you should be able to see that. Why would it be ok with one religion relating to God, but completley illegal with another who follows THE SAME GOD. Not possible, sorry, nope, no how.

As for that lust thing? All guys have a dirty mind, and do just about all women I know ... so we kinda have those sick thoughts whenever we someone attractive. There is a fine line about the Lust thing, that I belive many of us have mininterpreted.

__________________
RoboBlaster:
Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

fifthchild

I have a few things I would like to bring to this party. I was raised a Catholic in a small town, went to Catholic schools all my life. I no longer consider myself Catholic and sex and masturbation are two of the things that took me to this path.

The oft-quoted passage about Onan is relevant (why do you think it's called 'onanism'?) but a more appropriate passage is one of Jesus' parables. The one about the farmer who throws his seed and only the seed that falls on the fertile ground will grow. It was supposed to preach the message of spreading the word of God, and falling upon the ears of the willing. Reading this I realised there was a connection between the number of times we heard that parable in primary school and the lack of discussion about masturbation in the one hour (yes, one hour) of sex-education I had in my 12 years of Catholic education.

A lot of Catholic education is propoganda, I feel. This is not given as a fact but as experience. For the longest time, I felt the most overwhelming feeling of guilt about jacking off. The topic never came up in the schoolyard (I found out years later that it was somewhat common in most normal schools) and the bigget insult was to call someone a 'wanker'. Maybe I just gave away my location with that.

When Monty Python sang, 'every sperm is sacred', they were only half joking. Catholic dogma is indeed Catholic law and you would surely be able to find the writings of a long dead Bishop or Pope on the topic, condeming it. Even if there is nothing offical written, it's the most onspoken rule of Catholics.

Frank McCourt's Angela's Ashes sees the author recounting boyhood sermons in Ireland, home of the Catholic schoolboy, where the priest would stand at the pulpit and intone in his mightiest voice his condemnation of the boys who had drowned the week before as they had died with mortal sins on their souls... As would ALL OF YOU if you did not CONFESS AND LEAD A CLEAN LIFE! This had the same effect as the slightly more subtle approach of my childhood. What was the sin dirtying the hands of more teenage boys than any other? It wasn't likely to be pre-marital sex, that's for sure.

My friend Phet is a born again Pentecostal Christian. He once told me that in his church's eyes, any form of lust equalled adultary. Think about that. Fantasising about the cute girl in your biology class during a sleepy Tuesday afternoon lecture was a one-way ticket to hell for him. THis explains why he got rid of all his porn. Five boxes of CD-Rs, in the trash.

I kind of regret never asking him about jacking off. But only kinda.

parable

To address this question from a biblical perspective, one must examine what the Bible teaches about sexual immorality. It is generally accepted that where the Bible gives specific instruction, we stand firm, and where the Bible is silent, we should live according to godly principles.

The Bible is clear, sexual immorality is prohibited by God. A survey of scripture reveals numerous instances in which sexually impure people are described. See Gen19:5, Gen19:30-38, Gen34:1-2, Gen35:22, Gen38:9, Gen38:14-18, Num25:6-14, Judg16:1, 1Sam2:22, 2Sam11:4, 2Sam13:14, 2Sam16:22, Hos1-2, John4, John8:1-11, Luke7:36-39, 1Cor5:1 and Rev2:20. The specific issues are homosexuality, incest, rape, adultery, refusal to father a child by the wife of a dead brother, fornication, sex in the tabernacle and in public, and leading others to sexual immorality. Lev18-20 prohibit incest, adultery, fornication, prostitution, homosexuality, bestiality and sexual relations during menstruation. In all these, sexual relations with a partner are involved.

Nowhere does the Bible expressly discuss solitary sexual activity, i.e. masturbation. While in some cases a failure to prohibit may imply tolerance or even permission, such reasoning can lead to serious error. Yet, in light of the Bible’s apparent silence on this topic, what conclusions may be drawn?

The most obvious place to start is Jesus’ teachings about the content of our hearts. In the gospels, he taught that murder begins as anger, stealing begins as greed and adultery begins as lust. Hence, the life we give to our thoughts is morally equivalent to the sinful acts they inspire. However, most Bible scholars agree that the terms "anger", "greed" and "lust", as understood in biblical cultures and times, are not the kinds of passing thoughts all of us have at one time or another. Rather they are obsessive patterns of thinking that are indulged without regard to consequences and reduce others (or their possessions) to objects for base gratification of some fleshly desire, e.g. revenge, coveting or sex.

In lust, sexual desire is indulged until it becomes grotesque and compelling, leading to sexual acts that are clearly immoral. If masturbation involves this kind of thinking, it is sinful and a perversion of God's intent for our sexuality. Hence, masturbation can cause us to fall short of God's standards and bring upon ourselves the natural consequences of disregarding His wisdom.

For example, because sexual climax involves the release of very powerful chemicals in the brain, it is possible to become addicted to these chemicals. The dynamics of such addiction are the same as other forms of addiction, i.e. escalation in dependence, leading to increasing demands for more intense experiences, which can lead to the use of pornography and even promiscuity, both of which are clearly sinful. Furthermore, because addiction soon becomes the most important thing in life, it may be considered a form of idolatry, another sin.

Another example is that for some people masturbation can carry with it profound shame or guilt. While shame or guilt can serve to correct error, excessive shame or guilt can prevent us from accepting God’s love, mercy and grace, hindering our relationship with him.

While the Bible does not expressly address masturbation, it honors sexual purity and speaks to the content of our hearts and the life we give to our thoughts. Accordingly, masturbation should not be dismissed as trivial or irrelevant, but rather understood as a powerful experience that each person must consider in light of scripture, prayer, counsel and conscience.

RenaissanceII

True story.

I was around 14 or 15. My brother was 13 or 14. I had discovered the joys of masturbation. My brother believed it to be a sin.
Not surprisingly, we got into an argument about it on a friday night at home. Dad and Mom had guests over playing Bridge. I told Dad the gist of the argument...
He said "ya could have picked a better time for this argument. No, it is NOT a sin. Now simmer down you two."

Dad was a Deacon in the Episcopal Church, and studied history and theology.

__________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
Anais Nin


I Wish You Well.

DaveOrion

I'm not religious in the least, but I am a person of faith. Its not a sin to masturbate, period. Please dont quote the old testament, because the new testament gives us a new covenant, one thats written in the heart. My heart tells me its not a sin.

At times, I 'don't sin' on a daily basis.

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

parable

If you will note, I qualified my post with the phrase "biblical perspective". Anyone is free to consider the question from any other perspective they wish. My post is valid only in the context I prescribed.

The whole point with my post was to say that the Bible does not expressly addresss masturbation. Some argue that masturbation is a sin based on certain statements by Paul in Romans, for example. As I recall, and I haven't checked this, the OT concern about spilling one's seed on the ground is about pulling out before ejaculation to avoid conception when its your duty to produce an heir for your brother by impregnating his widow. Clearly, some of the customs from those days no longer apply. As for the new covenant, I'm all for grace and mercy rather than the law and justice. Only God knows for sure if what someone does is a sin, but we can get an idea by how what we do affects our relationship with Him. If what we do hinders our holding Him first and foremost in our lives, then guess what? Whatever it is that is more important than God has become an idol, and that's the problem.

I thought my post was clear enough that each person must come to terms with masturbation for themselves, and the principles I noted can serve as reasonable guides to those who actually care.

Parable

p.s. my dad was an ordained Episcopal priest with a masters in divinity and doctorate in ministry