Pow

anybody? experiences?

mixedmedia

Hi.

Just a friendly note. Please take note of the site policy on starting threads:

(it can be found here: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=105692)

So why don't you try and open it up a little more and at least let us know why you are curious.

Thanks.

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The_Jazz

MM is exactly right. Also from TFP Policy and Guidelines:

We're happy to have this discussion within the bounds of that rule.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Pow

woopsies!

sorry about that!

ok, well this saturday is halloween and my girlfriend and i are heading to boystown (chicago) for some fun. she'll be wearing next to nothing (a really really sexy baseball outfit), with a lot of skin exposed, so we made the obvious choice to go to boystown since my brother and his partner and friends will be going there...

anyway, i've done it before and i know what to expect... this will be her first ANYTHING and i just want to make it a good experience for her...

any advice?

much better lol

oh geez!

well, scratch this entire thread then! haha

Painted

Forgive me if this breaks any rules, but I would definitely NOT give someone I love ecstasy, especially if the person has had no prior drug experiences. There are too many things that can go wrong in a situation like that. Since you two are still going to be curious, (and I don't reccomend this either-but it's the safer way) start her out on something lighter so she can get familiar with the physical and mental effects of various drugs. Ecstasy isn't like pot, but that altered state of mind you get from both takes time to get used to.

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Pow

thanks for the advice painted!

analog

Required note: Don't do drugs.

But... if you were to do Ecstasy, you should be aware of the following things:

It will make you heat up, physically. You will likely sweat a lot. This means you will dehydrate easily. Doing X while engaging in a rigorous physical activity is the last thing you want to do. That's how people generally die. They cook in their own skin and dehydrate themselves into cardiac arrest.

Now don't go jumping up my ass if you've done it and "everything was fine". That's good... I'm glad you didn't die. The point of the matter is, it's a stupid gamble for a high. Yes, people die from it, and yes, from taking it the first time- especially if you're doing something as ill-advised as physical activity.

All in all, it's not a drug to mess around with. It's up to you if the high is worth the risk of death.

ItWasMe

Thank you for the information, Analog. Another thing to explain to my teen now that I know more about this particular one. If you know more about it, a pm would be appreciated. Otherwise, I'll look it up.

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tinydancer

Just curious... did you mean her first time having sex, or the other?? I know you said "ANYTHING" but wasn't sure if you meant sex and/or drugs or just yeah... wondering...

Cause personally... if it were my first time, or if i were going to be with someone for their first time having sex... I'd think being on drugs isn't really necessary. The first time experience alone should be mind blowing. And I use the phrase "should be" with great caution. Good luck on your decision.

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Menoman

yaya people die on X, people die from eatting hotdogs too. Probably more people from hotdogs than X in a year I'm gonna assume.

X is much better than pot to start with IMO, both of them can cause some creepiness b/c you aren't feeling how you know you are supposed to feel, but pot also has that added little paranoia side effect which will make it even worse. If you know what to expect (and there are tons of things to expect, ALL of which every person won't know, so what you feel may not be exactly the same she feels) and are a stable mental person. X is a much better path to take, also imo its extremely less habit forming.

The only drug I'd say don't ever start with is shrooms. terrible terrible to start with for obvious reasons.


haha mindblowing? You haven't experienced the world mindblowing like fucking on X

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Plan9

Drugs? Wow.

It would be healthier for you to shoot a flare gun into your navel or eat a uranium omelet.

It is your life, however.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

analog

Not everyone experiences paranoia while high on marijuana. It's the shark attack syndrome- its frequency of occurrence is not at all proportionate to the amount of negative attention it garners when it does happen, and subsequent lore that it creates. All drugs effect all people differently, and you may well experience deep paranoia while under the influence of marijuana, but that's hardly the "norm".

The use of ecstasy actually alters the neurochemical balance in your brain. Its amphetamine properties also make your heart race. These are not healthy things for your body, and should especially not be seen as "better".

I'm not trying to say that everyone who takes ecstasy will die. I'm saying the risk factors are far too high for it to be wise to do anything but caution against its use. No, it's not "fine" to use. It's certainly not "better" or less harmful than marijuana, physiologically speaking.

Note: when combating dehydration, it is generally considered that up to 1 liter of water should be used to stay hydrated during periods of heavy exercise. Part of the problem is people becoming dehydrated, another is the issue of people freaking out over the issue and drinking way too much water. The added deficit of Ecstasy is that its chemical properties make your kidneys excrete more water, storing more in your bloodstream. This, along with the resulting low amounts of sodium in your body, can lead to a host of major problems, including swelling of the brain, cardiac dysfunction, and kidney failure.

The bottom line is, it might just seem like a nice high to you, and the internet is full of very positive and intelligent-sounding support for the use of the drug, and maybe everything has always gone well when you've taken it, but that sure as hell doesn't make it "safe". My main concern is that you're going to tell her it's fine, and not give her any education to make a real decision, and have her take it without knowing all the risks. The most dangerous drug user, of any drug, is the user who is the least educated in the effects of the drug.

Stick to major providers of anti-drug information, like the CDC, WHO, DEA, etc. There are a lot of well-dressed websites that seem to be against drugs, but do nothing but provide argument for their use, "debunking myths" of their negative attributes. Take the information you gather on the anti-drug sites with a grain of salt, though, because they have their agendas, too (making all drugs look as bad as they possibly can). They like to play up every negative angle they can, to discourage the use.

Just talk to your kids. Converse with them about their plans- and when they've come home from those plans. Don't confront about what they did, just ask them if they had fun and engage them in a conversation about it. You won't ever get a straight answer to "was there drinking?" "were there drugs?" and you'll lose their attention because it's confrontational and comes off like an accusation that they're doing something bad. If they already feel like you suspect them of all kinds of wrongdoing, making the choice to go ahead and do it anyway isn't a far leap. "If i'm going to get the third degree and accused of it anyway, why am I saying no? I may as well be giving it a try."

Compile all the information you can on preventing or spotting its use, sift through what you think sounds best, and fill in the rest with your parenting and love of your children.

Menoman

Obviously not every person will get paranoid, but its certainly not a small portion. Damn near everyone who smokes will experience it a few times, it actually is the 'norm' just varying degree's of it will occur, the 'bad trips' are what you hear about, the rest, isn't story-worthy for you to hear it, they are much less intense but for a novice even a light trip is not fun. As well as nobody wants to brag about a 'little paranoia', coz then they'd be a pussy.

xtc doesn't cause that sort of reaction even close to the amount pot will. The only thing you have to worry about with X is have 4-5 bottles of water for yourself and drink as much of it as you can, thats it for the majority of people. Even that is being much safer than necessary, but its better to err on the side of safety aye.

As I understood it this guy did this before so I assumed he already had knowledge of that.

ETC is not nearly as 'dangerous' as you are making it out to be, it's by far one of the safest drugs that someone can get into.

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Plan9

Hahaha, awesome claim. Where? Research says what? How safe? Safer than a gunshot to the head?

Suggesting this is safe is about as sound as: "Do crack instead... it is cheaper and easily available."

I'm against illicit substance use. I can't even stand potheads, but I'll take a horde of their hungry hippie asses over some kid who does pastel pills with any frequency. At least the green crap comes out of the earth naturally.

Man, I've seen too many kids fucked up for life because of this kinda philosophy.

/rant

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Menoman

I never said they were safe did I?

All it takes is a little common sense and 1 minute to read my post to see that I was saying it's one of 'the safest'.

Kinda like "To get shot in the face and to get shot in the leg... getting shot in the leg is the safest"

I don't see whats so hard to understand about that unless you just needed an excuse to rant on about how drugs are bad mmmkay?

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Tide

For good information on drugs, their effect and the like I'd recomend this site:

http://www.erowid.org/

It's full of everything there is to know about most drugs.

I'm not promoting their use but this site seems to be pretty thorough in it's descriptions and as such is a good source of information.

Back to the OP. Good luck with the sex. Think of it as a journey with no destination.

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But when I do it's always the same one.

Pow

thanks guys!

analog

Drinking "as much water as you can" is just as bad, if not worse, than not enough.

And there's never an "excuse" needed to talk about drugs, it's always a good idea.

hrandani

I don't think any of you have ever taken x, there's lots of touchy feely type stuff but zero need / lust for actual sex.

so, bad idea.

World's King

Who the hell calls Chicago 'Boystown'?

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The_Jazz

It's a neighborhood in Chicago. Roughly Belmont to Addison, Broadway to Sheffield, pretty much centered on Halsted. It's been the "gay" neighborhood for the last 25 years or so, but that's beginning to change as more and more families move into the area. It's still a great place to party.

And yes, it's right outside the Friendly Confines. Makes for some interesting police work from what I hear.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Glory's Sun

You're right, everyone has the exact same reaction to a drug

If you're going to give your girl the x, I think I'd rather do it in a more controlled atmosphere the first time she does it. It would be a much better experience for her if she doesn't have to worry about everything.. clubs are too crazy I think for a first time trip. :shrug:

Plan9

A person heavily under the influence of any mind-altering substance cannot give consent to sexual activities under the law.

Turns out? Rape charges are probably a bad thing.

Make sure everybody in the party wants to party.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

n0nsensical

I may not agree with your risk/reward analysis but I definitely agree with that.

If your girlfriend is going to accuse you of rape you've got bigger problems, I think.

Sex or No Sex?
High levels of serotonin in the brain are generally not conducive to sexual activity. This is why (or partially why) SSRI antidepressants cause sexual dysfunction. So pure MDMA is usually not considered a sexual drug; it tends to reduce libido and make orgasm nearly impossible. If you've been on SSRI you pretty much know what this is like except it's a lot more pronounced. However, this isn't complete without a statement about the purity of E pills. Contrary to popular belief pills are practically never cut with heroin or cocaine (too expensive and they don't lend themselves to oral pill form anyway), but they ARE frequently cut with other stimulants such as caffeine and methamphetamine. Meth is THE sex drug, so it's definitely likely that people taking street E are going to get some of that and want some of the other stuff. I think that's the biggest explanation for varied reactions in this department. Pure MDMA is very mellow. I would almost say nobody's hopping on top of anybody with that. Maybe strip down and give them a massage but that's about it.

cadre

Yep! Which is why I say it's a bad idea to have sex on x, after that sober sex will never be the same.

I'm not going to tell you not to do X because I really doubt it would make a difference to you but if you do, don't have sex. Just mess around and feel good.

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Menoman

Since I have to spell every little thing out for you people.

Drink as much water as you can = Drink as much water as you can, without killing yourself?

Obviously I meant drink it until you were a bloated fuck having no fun at the party and have a possibility of dying from it

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analog

Since you have no idea what you're talking about, and I can say that unequivocally as a person who does in this case, I'll spell it out for you, smart-mouth:

People die from drinking too much water. The two main reasons people die from taking ecstasy are far too little water intake, or (and this is the really important bit) from drinking lethal amounts of it.

Even if people became a "bloated fuck", as you put it, do you think they'd even notice while high on ecstasy? Apparently not- and I'm sure everyone who's ever died from it would love to testify to that effect, if they weren't dead. A woman died from drinking too much water when participating in a radio contest, and she was perfectly lucid, not high on drugs. That's just an example. It's hard to ingest a toxic amount of water, yes, but not so hard that it can't be done while fully conscious and sober, let alone on drugs.

I'm not saying i'm better or smarter than anyone just because I say I know what I'm talking about. You come in with an air of experienced-drug-user superiority in your tone, scoffing at and disrespectfully dismissing the people who don't agree with your "ecstasy is really safe" rhetoric, displaying nothing but ignorance in the real issue at hand (the whole "it can kill you" thing) and protecting the honor of your precious drug....

If you want to defend the drug, then defend the drug. Thus far, you've just been defending your habitual use of it. Do it or don't do it, just don't be telling people it's "by far one of the safest drugs that someone can get into".

Menoman

you started with your propaganda, claiming I said things I never said. I assume you have at least reading comprehension yet you chose to twist my words into bullshit, Excuse me if I take it as you have no real arguement so you are reaching, trying to find flaw in the words I use.
This woman knew she was sick the entire time, she said it multiple times before she finally won the contest, she also knew she was sick on the way home. How about this, Don't drink until you are completely sick? I assumed it would be common sense not to drink until you are fucking dead? More word twisting blah blah
Once again I never claimed this drug was "really safe" you pulled that right outta yer ass. Obviously it can kill you, don't act like it's fucking shooting heroin into your eyeballs here though, if you think so maybe you are the one that needs to do a bit of learning on the drug. I'll ignore the silly honor of precious drug comment
I have defended the drug, without much problem, you have brought up very little evidence(other than wordplay) that it is a "dangerous killer" when it is done in a recreational and safe way. (it can kill you is pretty pathetic since the chances are slim)

I can understand that attitude though if you get your drug 'news' from 60 minutes.

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The_Jazz

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

MSD

You shouldn't eat filet mignon because regular steak will never taste the same.

james t kirk

Shows how stoopid I am.

When I read, "sex on X"

I was thinking - "Sex with an EX"

As in Ex GF, or such.

Yeah, I've never even smoked a cigarette - can you tell.

cadre

Also true.

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My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

Plan9

I'd eat the fuck outta filet mignon for the rest of my life and not get tired of it.

Or get tired of eating chewy burnt regular steak.

Meat is meat.

Sex is like pizza: When it's good, it's good. When it's bad, it's still good.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

pseudonym

I went through a short phase of doing "E" back in like 2000 or so. I even one night planned a get together with a certain girl (happened to be my step brothers ex live in girlfriend, who I had always had my eye on, I wasn't exactly the nicest guy ever in my early 20's) anyway.

I was under the impression that surely being euphoric would make her comfortable enough to admit she had always wanted me, and she did say that, and one thing did lead to another. But it was too far into the "experience" and while I tried my best to carry on, truth be told, unless you get it on right away when on that stuff, your penis will be as though it's shriveled and hiding.

This girl, told me that was the worst sex she ever had. And I've talked to other people that have taken MDMA as well, and it seems to be true, like some of the things the people said earlier in this thread.

I do not condone the use of "recreational" drugs, as a matter of fact I'm more against Ecstasy than I am against anything, mainly because it can be done once, with no real life altering problems, and it could be done a lot, but it's a thin line, one that is harder to see due to it's "harmless" appearance. A close friend of mine walks like Mr. Burns and rarely remembers why he called me or what he's doing because of prolonged Ecstasy usage, he's not dead, he's not sick, technically he's fine. But he's not the same, and he's not firing on all cylinders.

But do watch yourself. I wouldn't worry about the water intake as much as your mental and physical tolerance of MDMA.

And what these fine people said about not going in public is also good advice, since in a euphoric state you're more likely to strike up a conversation with some guy you walk past that reminds you of someone or something, and you won't have a clue where this girl even went. plus, your dick will go soft within an hour.

what an odd first post to put on this forum.

Daniel_

More people die taking a crap than almost any other activity.

This doesn't mean taking a crap is more dangerous than leaping off bridges - it means that every day almost every person on earth takes a crap (some people go several times a day).

Your hot-dog comparison ignores the most important statistic of all - how many people ate hot-dogs and did not choke.

The thing about hot-dogs is that nobody blends in drain cleaner or floor sweepings or brick dust to make ten hot-dogs into twenty five hot-dogs.

Nobody sells you kabanos sausage or chorizo telling you they're "frankfurter extreme".

When you buy Ecstasy you are not getting pure clean MDMA, you are getting whatever amphetamine the dealer happened to get his hands on, cut with whatever bulking agent he could get away with.

You think you're taking MDMA and that you can compare your drug taking experience with other times you've taken MDMA, but actually you are in the position of someone who's drunk Beer a few times and is being offered an opened bottle in a brown bag. Is it beer, is it wine, is it everclear cut with Gatorade and tramp phlegm?

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Comes willowing across the sand;
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Strange Famous

it's wierd, how in the US E is considered quite a hardcore drug... when I was growing up everyone at school did it. Well, not "everyone" obviously, but it was more common to take E or speed than smoke weed for example.... most of my friends did it.

As for having sex while under its influance, I can offer no illumination on that.

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for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
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MSD

In the US, many things that are normal in other parts of the developed world are taboo. We have not yet escaped the puritanical roots of our society, although my generation is experiencing the death knell of neoconservatism. I was four years old when Reagan's war on drugs went mainstream, and twenty years later it, along with many closed-minded policies of the era, are coming to an end. The campaign of institutionalized ignorance against recreational drug use in America is dying, and I hope its lifeless corpse will soon be kicked to the gutter to rot.

Ustwo

Yea cause we need even more stoners smoking pot behind my office.

I don't see drug use as evil as many but its definitely not 'good' for the country or the people involved.

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Slavakion

How about this? According to this review article (journal article that summarized numerous other journal articles), there are quite a few adverse long-term affects from MDMA (not to mention the short-term affects). Basically, if the E doesn't outright kill you somehow, it'll still eventually cause abnormally low levels of serotonin. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter linked to mood, appetite, and a bunch of other things.

I'm not so sure that the chances of it killing you are low. MDMA can cause hepatitis (liver inflammation -- possibly fatal) and outright liver failure (fatal), brain hemorrhage (possibly fatal), thrombosis (blood clots -- possibly fatal), irregular heart beat, hyponatremia (imbalanced electrolytes causing brain swelling -- possibly fatal) and more.
Some of us get our drug news from science.

Menoman

This is my last post here since nobody pays attention to anything other than the bullshit stats that anti-drug people throw out there.

But I will throw this last piece out to you.

http://www.peak.sfu.ca/the-peak/96-2...3/ecstasy.html
Source: The Daily, McGill University

I'll just point out the interesting parts for you. You can feel free to review the article at your own leisure.

Article: Volume 93, Issue 3 May 21, 1996


9 years and 60 deaths. huh thats pretty odd don't you think? Very dangerous indeed.

I'm out.

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