The Ladder Theory
 

I did a search and couldn't find a ref... so I'll post it.

The Ladder Theory

Oh, this makes me happy. :thumbsup: Goes along well with Henry Rollins' Mekanik.

I think that ladder theory applies to a subset of humanity, and i don't mind saying that i wouldn't want to be romantically involved with any of those people. But if your goal is fucking shallow people from the club scene, by all means, watch out for the sti's though.

^That is 100000000% true >_>

That's almost word for word what went through my mind when I read this.

As in "Wow, a social model for the shallow people I meet in clubs. This is why they act like fucking morons!"

this is why I hate dating.

and upon discussing this with women that I know. all I gotta say is wow, it's fucking true.

so uh... I guess I should go get a real job or settle for my palm, cuz I think im an alright looking guy with a good personality, I just suck with money.

This has been discussed pretty in depth here before, I'm a pretty firm believer in the theory on an extremely large scale of the population, but as with all theories, there are exceptions.

if you actually look at the theory, most will find the same conclusion.

Of course, the women around here won't see it that way I assure you :)

uh yeah, you're right, I don't see it that way, because I am not that way and I have the relationships to prove it

Try being and dating, oh, I don't know...adults, for a change. Now that's a novel concept, isn't it?

and you misspelled insensitive in your title...

Hear, hear, MM.

Yeah, I love how these guys keep whining about how girls won't go out with them, but then we get threads upon threads by the same guys talking about their wives and girlfriends....

DAMN RIGHT!

[QUOTE:]Says: I want a man who is motivated and has goals.
Means: I want a rich man

Says: I want a man who knows how to treat a woman.
Means: I want a rich man

Says: He's from a really good family.
Means: He's from a really rich family.[/QUOTE]

what we really mean is we don't want men who sit on their asses and do jack shit all day and expect the dough/food/luxury of having a roof over your head to just be provided by the WOMAN!

we want a man who is not going to get drunk and beat us, throw us around, cheat on us. we want a man who is not going to be insensitive. we want a caring man who will love us for who we are and in turn we will love them just the same despite the amount of money they earn, despite their family being rich....treat us right does not mean buy us stuff.

we want a man with a family who will accept us and even that isn't as important just as long as the man accepts us. rich family my ASS!!!

who the fuck cares about a rich family. if your family is rich...good for them.well done to them for making it happen for themselves and maybe grab some of their initiative to make it happen for ourselves.

if i want to be rich...i'll get rich on my own thank you kindly.

and MM is so completely on the button...try being and dating adults for a change...i think you might find it a breath of fresh air. WOMEN who actually don't give a damn about all this shite.

dont put me in a box. thank you very much.

try it...i dare ya...you'll thank me :thumbsup:

yeah, cause you know only rich handsome men get married :rolleyes:

what they really mean, is, 'wah! I can't have my pick!'

The thing I've found about pigeon-holing people is that it's impossible. No one ever completely conforms to the norm. Behaviors change. People learn better and more effective social skills.

It was an amusing read, though. It reminds me of a younger Jazz with too much time on his hands and experimenting with celebacy as a training technique to improve his 5k times.

and that's just it Jazzy...you get some men who actually don't find it amusing, they find it absolutely true. and that pisses me the hell off!

fine, i'll admit...some parts were funny and that actually warranted a smile which i gave...

but then you have people who actually believe that ALL women are that way.

Heh.

On a larger scale, any time anyone says "ALL (insert descriptive noun here) are (insert adjective here)", they've mispoken. It really doesn't matter if the subject of the sentence is "women", "men", "Arabs", "rich" or "Radiohead fans". Within that subset are sure to be exceptions to whatever rule is being constructed.

Women find confident good looking rich males attractive :eek:

I for one am shocked!

Seriously its a silly theory that seems to be based more around bitterness.

Most of these things tend to 'work' often because the guys who rely on them are completely incompetent around women so any change is positive.

:lol: So true, so true... :)

This is one of those things that all guys know are true and all women deny.

No, this is one of those things that some guys wish was true for all guys and all women. T'aint.

I think most people appreciate self confidence, beyond that, if you have to diagram out all your relationships into different zones based on whether you can put your penis somewhere, you're over thinking things.

Ladder theory is very popular among certain circles, especially those that can be defined by the "intellectual whore" and "cuddle bitch" terms. I mean why wouldn't it be? You take a bunch of guys who aren't getting laid and tell them that it isn't their fault. The reason they aren't getting any is that all women are shallow/lying bitches and the men they are sleeping with are dirtbag/rich assholes.

You're a nice, gentlemenly fellow and it's not your fault; it's the system and you're just a victim.

Says the insurance man. :rolleyes:

Ah, the beauty of self-reinforcing beliefs. Let us know how your relationships work out in a few years, eh?

And this is the sort of thing that all people say who don't really have anything productive to say. :rolleyes:

wah. :p

Nice point. Insurance, though, is about taking known behaviors, assigning a risk factor to them, then gambling that those factors will hold true about the individual. After all, not all teenage boys will get in car wrecks. If they did, they'd be uninsurable. Since they don't but still get in proportionally more, they pay a higher price for the coverage since they represent a higher risk.

I think that my theory still fits with the realities of my life. I like to think so, anyway.

*Crompsin dons his new t-shirt*

I <3 Generalizations

Always? :D

It makes sense to me, but I'm a social scientist. I think there's a big fat line between making generalizations/stereotypes based on a few anecdotal experiences, and actually looking at statistically robust, scientifically-sound evidence of a normal curve of human behavior. The first makes for novels and self-help books, the second makes for studies that can be applied to the real world and to (hopefully) effect real behavior change. And, apparently, insurance policies. :)

would this be a bad time to mention that my band only rides motorcycles, we're all filthy rich, and the biggest bunch of assholes any of you has ever met?

ladies???

This is the typical "battle of the sexes" zero-sum competitive crap that a certain segment of the population buys into because they believe that it is more important to win than be happy. It is also the same pseudo-sociological crap that gives the humanities field a bad name. As several respondents have already mentioned, there is a shallow portion of the population who seems to be more than happy to use "tools" to increase their sociability, rather than being genuine and authentic. This is often somewhat effective because there is a corresponding portion of the opposite sex (whichever one) who is also playing the "game." Often as people become more mature they find that they do not want the same things that they did when they were younger (i.e. someone who is "rich" or beautiful or whatever) and seek a partner with attributes that go beyond physical characteristics or bank statements. Some people never mature. It should also be noted that there is a big difference in people who want actual relationships, versus people who just want to date and screw. I personally prefer the depth and intimacy of a relationship.

Hey! You with the finger! No advertising!

...

(posts pictures of himself sitting on his shiny chrome Shadow Sabre with a fat wad of $100s tucked in his waistband, smoking a Cuban cigar and punching a nun)

Hey no fair....you know we all love you for your piggy style. ;)

Sure thing! Make sure you do the same :D

Right or wrong, society likes systems. We like building walls, closing doors, pushing buttons.

I like examining them. The grand Us vs. Them mentality always rocks my socks.

Humans are naturally hierarchy prone. We have to have status and "enemies."

...

Oh, we've all got assholes... why isn't that enough to aid in complete social unity?

I know :P

Seriously, though, these types are arguments usually go nowhere. Why? Because women, in general, no matter how wrong they are or how much evidence proves otherwise, will always believe that they do no wrong or they're 'above the curve', so to speak. So ummm... Yeah. You can think you're right, and I'll do the manly thing and let you think you're right :D

Chances are that if you don't agree with the ladder theory on some level you're either:

1.) A woman or
2.) One of those asshole guys which women are always attracted to.

:)

I'm happily married, hon... have been for a while, and plan to be for a long time into the future. I'll certainly let TFP know if that changes, but I can assure you, the health of our marriage has jack shit to do with the ladder theory. :)

HAHAHA...

"1.) A woman."

Damn, man... I should buy you a drink.

...

*phone rings* Captain Obvious called... he wants his job back.

Really...? I had NO idea...

I never said that women do no wrong.

My point has been that the guys who believe this theory are immature and are only going after immature women. And, I strongly suspect, the problem isn't that girls won't go out with them, it's that the girls they want to go out with won't go out with them. It is truly a self-fulfilling prophecy, but you want to blame it on all women. It's fucking ridiculous.

And, personally, I think if you believe something like the ladder theory you'll never get anywhere in a relationship because you'll continually throw the baby out with the bathwater with your closed-minded assumptions.

If this is what you truly believe then enjoy your life alone. It's hardly any woman's responsibility to disprove your stupid convictions about who she is. *shrug*

Assuming that that's true, the inverse of it is that if you believe in ladder theory you are an unattractive man. Maybe if you worked on your unattractiveness, instead of blaming women for not being attracted to you, you wouldn't need a formal theory to vindicate your for you inability to be attractive. :)

A good friend pointed me towards it years ago, and I have since had it bookmarked on every computer I've ever owned....At first I thought it was a nasty joke by some cynical bastard....but I've since accepted it as truth.

-Will

I think it's interesting how Ladder Theory discussions almost always become long and spirited. I think there's a kernel of truth in it, personally. I've been on both ends of its stick, as the "cuddle bitch" and the (perceived) bad boy who gets the girl. It's not scientific by any means, but it does tend to predict and explain behaviors of a certain segment of society. I think it's primarily driven by college-level experiences. The Theory is strongly rooted in late-night coffee shop philosophizing and post-clubbing hangovers.

Once you leave the college phase and get a job and enter Real Life, I don't think it applies as much. You keep hitting on girls at clubs and bars, though, and it will rear its ugly head.

In the end, it's written by someone who's grown cynical, perhaps even misogynistic, and that will color your views on many subjects.

This is the operative quotation in this discussion so far. When I was in college, I (and everyone else I knew both male and female) totally bought this. We bought it and played by the rules and complained or reveled in its self-fulfilling predictions. It's tempting and, in the fubar'd college dating scene, it makes an unfortunate amount of sense in both directions.

Then we grew up, and, for most of us, it just kind of went away. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

Yes, and
yes. You fellas are right on the money here. (Bolding mine.)

Here here. *ItWasMe buys MM a drink.*

There is more than a kernel of truth to the theory. I have seen both women and men who played that game, moreso when I was younger. If anyone (men or women) think that most of the opposite sex is that way, maybe you are looking in the wrong places. I was never a player, and most of my female friends were not.

On a personal note, a policeman came to our high school and taught us how to not look like a potential victim. How to walk looking a block away instead of at the ground. To look people in the eye for "x" number of seconds when walking by. In college, because I was shy and quiet, but did not look the part, nice guys quickly gave up trying to talk to me. Bad boys don't give up so easily, and probably thought I was just playing "hard to get." Point is...to everyone who thinks all women play games... how soon would *you* have walked away and chalked her up to being a player/stuckup/etc?

well what i meant by my earlier post is that it's true if you can see through it's "radical honesty" approach, and downsize it's hyperbole to the men's primary factor being "attraction" and the women's being "financial security"


It's true, women don't want to waste their time with a man who cannot provide for them in a long term relationship.

Long term, think long term.

you can spend 5-10 years with a guy and if he's still a bum, he's still mooching. it doesn't matter how charming and funny he is, you'll have the instinctual want for a better "provider", one more efficient at the hunter/gatherer aspect of modern society.

This isn't a bad thing, it really isn't so just admit that it's true. Because if you settle for less, you're just a doormat.

No. There's a HUGE gray area between wanting to be with a guy who's not a bum, and wanting to be with a guy who has money and can therefore "provide for you." I can provide for myself, and have worked hard to get to the point where I am financially salient without any man being present in my life, thanks. Does that mean that I want to be married to a slacking-ass bum who settles for the lowest common denominator of jobs? No. Just as I would expect my husband to not want ME to be a bum, I equally would like for him to not be a bum. It goes both ways. Why the hell would I expect someone to "take care of me" just because I have a vagina, and he has a penis? Seriously.

It's not about hunting/gathering or which set of genitalia you possess... it's about being mature enough to take responsibility for your own life, financially, emotionally, and in every other way. That means BOTH partners (male, female, gay, straight, what have you) being financially stable and able to handle their own money matters. It means BOTH partners carry their own emotional weight and deal with their own shit without projecting it onto their partner, and being willing to seek out counseling when needed (on their own!). It means being responsible for yourself first, and for your partner next (regardless of gender), and for your children together.

you speak as if your opinion is fact. as evidenced by the differing opinions in this thread, you have your opinion, and I have mine. My experience is different than yours. thats all I have to say about that.

The funny thing is the sex ratio is still very close to 50-50. Its that way for a reason.

For all the intricacies and wierdness of sex and human relationships, there is in fact just about someone for everyone.

Maybe it requires a bit of lowered expectations, which is why I think a lot of the BS fades away as you get older, but sooner or later everyone can find a mate that 'matches' them.

Its not a ladder but it is a hierarchy. The exceptions help prove the rule how did she get HIM?!

I don't see how abaya's presenting her opinion as irrefutable fact. She's simply stating it, without reservation or apology.

Why should she state it any other way?

... because we got married? ... because we stopped chasing ass?

Dating seems to be a funny dick dance regardless of how old ya get.

By "grow up" I mean, "realized that the point of looking for a partner is not random tail but rather someone that you enjoy spending time with and compliments your lifestyle." You don't play games with your partner in life if you want a happy relationship, and the ladder theory is all about playing games to get ass.

[Rant]

You know when I read that site I immediately started to imagine the author as this bitter nerd (the not good kind) sitting on his ars living in Ma's basement, who probably copped shit at school from all the jocks.

And to him I say:

Grow up and stop blaming the world for all your problems. Sooooo you couldn't sleep with any of your female friends and got sick of being used as a cuddle bitch. Maybe you should have been honest with yourself and your friends and made your intentions clear from the outset instead of giving yourself blue balls because you were too much of pussy to ask them out.

Honestly, harden the fuck up and get over yourself. Acting like an whiny lil bitch because you can't get women to treat you same way mommy did isn't attractive and perhaps the reason you're having problems. Here's my advise, try not being a tool, it might just work.

If you're going to go after superficial gaols and have superficial values, then you should accept that that's the game you're playing and you can expect to be treated the same way in return.

Here's an idea, instead of dedicating all your time to dissecting basic social interactions in your bitter little cave of despair, why don't you use that time to actually try to get to know people, and women. Who knows, a bit of sun and vitiman D might just curb stinking fucking attitude.

Honestly, what a load of crap.

[/rant]

this thread is a joke.

Agreed :)

Oh, but you act like this is a surprise! I'm never serious.

{bitter babble}

To no one in particular and those whom it may concern... and to myself:

Oh, and LIFE is a fucking joke. What a sick little masked puppets we are and what a perverse little stage we dance on in our disgusting little show. SURE, the "nice guy" system of survival really works. Are "you" calling this silly little theory bullshit because it touched that broken shard of glass stuck in your heart known as "truth?" Can you count the failures of the "nice guy" system on your fingers? NO, there isn't enough time on the planet! Hell, "your" feelings have more shoe prints on them than your cock 'n balls by this point... and we lost count of those since "you" hit puberty, son.

In order to be successful in life we must market ourselves. Sell ourselves. "Six pack abs." Prepackaged goods. "Whiten your teeth." New car smell. "GET BIG & HARD 4 HER." New and improved. "Boob job." EXTREME FLAVOR.

You go through your whole life telling yourself that people just gotta be deeper than what we concoct with bullshit philosophies like these to simplify our interactions, but it turns out everybody else is trying to believe that too (while not practicing it) and such great social surface tension never breaks when "everybody" is holding it up unconsciously like the hydrophilic heads on the thin layer of phospholipids that hold together our very cells.

{/babble}

Nah, seriously... we are what we do.

I wasn't disagreeing with the ladder theory or your post.

I'm going to sound like an asshole, but I really don't give a fuck, I think most people are deluding themselves into feeling more refined or evolved as human beings just because they put themselves up on a pedestal above and beyond this theory as if it's beneath their way of living.

again, extract the message from the hyperbole and you stand with a plate full of truth that you don't want to eat. It would mean you've been wrong about your choice to champion the little causes of human interaction.

and like that witty little fucker above me just said, indirectly, if it wasn't true, luxury wouldn't be a commodity, beauty wouldn't be marketed. The fact that society is what it is, is because we exist in it. Seperate yourself from it all you want, it doesn't change a damned thing.

The thread is a joke because of all the rampant denial that people have over what are natural base instincts. I see a hot girl, then yes, holy crap, I'm going to notice, its my "cultured" self that takes hold and keeps me from falling over myself like and idiot and growing a fat boner over it.

Just like some girl might find out that her boyfriend is super wealthy, she might make sacrifices in the "looks" department for this. I've seen many girls settle for guys who seem beneath them in personality, intelligence, and so on.

and guess what? they aren't bad people at all, they aren't your "club scene" people that half the posters in this thread seem to want to rip apart for being the dregs of society, for making YOU, in all your difference, LOOK BAD! *gasp*

I'm NOT saying that that site is even remotely supposed to be taken in a literal manner. It's too "out there" for that. I AM saying that there is a BASIS OF REALITY for his observations, and his theory.

Totally.

Is funny. Especially since I'm on the outside looking in at the sad dog and pony show that is dictated by said rules.

:)

I'm going to assume the was vaguely directed at me Cromp,

Dude, I've had my feelings hurt and my heart crushed just as much as anyone else. But hey, some people can build a bridge a get over it.

Sorry man, I'm not going to take advise from someone who makes statements like:

Actually, bro... I wasn't talking about you at all. I was being vague because I meant it. That and myself. This is how I feel about myself at times. People listen to "you" statements more, though. And it sounds less like I'm an egocentric self-bashing prick.

...

HUMOR, HUMOR! I think the author of said bullcrap was trying to be funny and exaggerated with all get-out to help inject said funny.

Aaaaah sorry bro....... Hehehe we're nearing an election over here, I'm not in a funny mood after reading the paper.

To be honest my post was more for the sake of going on a humorous rant.

I don't disagree with Shauk. There are undeniable to trends in both sexes, and a lot of reactions and emotions we humans have are driven by straight biology. I'm not denying this at all.

But if someone is going to actually expect me to take their sociological theory seriously, then it might help to not come across as whiny bitter turd.

emm, i actually think that (sadly) the author was pretty serious about it. Part of the reason that it cannot be taken seriously, however, apart from the rampant platitudes, is that the author's tone basically says "it is this way because I said so, and if you don't believe it, then you are proving my point" or more succinctly, "if you believe me then you think I'm right, and if you don't believe me then you prove I'm right." I am happy to say that i have had the pleasure of many great women throughout my life without having to resort to being a shallow douchebag.

Shauk made the best points here.

I've yet to see anyone reason why the ladder theory is totally wrong. "Because it is!" doesn't constitute a valid argument. Whether or not you want to admit it, the theory has quite a basing in truth and just about any non-gay guy knows this. You see, it has nothing to do with a woman being 'immature', but rather it has everything with her being a woman. I'm fairly sure I could go searching through the "Ladies Lounge" for posts which completely validate the ladder theory. What would you think of that? :)

IL: That would be like boxing with a bad guy made of Jell-O.

Pointless. And possibly fruit-flavored.

Allright. I'll bite. Why would it be pointless?

Remember the "enemy?"

Yes, that is why. ;)

*Doesn't get it*

I don't think anyone is saying that it's absolutely wrong. I think that the folks who don't care for it are saying that the people to which it applies are immature and/or shallow.

I know what they've said, and I'm saying that's a cop out.

Who knows, you may be right. Like I said, I think there's a kernel of truth in it. But I and most people I know encountered a much different scheme once we got into our mid-20s. You know what I think happened? We got more interesting. People stopped fucking around because they were no longer bored by the people around them. It no longer boiled down to "If you're hot and dangerous, I'll fuck your brains out and cuddle with the B-team." I think there are people who maintain that line of thinking. Because they don't get interesting.

I'm not trying to say in any way that you're uninteresting -- I have no idea. It's just a general philosophy with plenty of rule exceptions.

Why is it a cop out? Why isn't ladder theory a cop out?

some houses have basements. no matter how much furniture, wood, paint, electronics, art, and people you stuff in to it to make it different, they still have basements. They're dark and dirty and never what you see from the outside, or from a mere visit.

(speaking in tongues LALALALALA)

That theory works well when one speaks only of houses with basements, a group that is smaller in number than the group of all houses.

*not entirely sure what we're talking about here*

houses with basements, damnit.

What if you live in an apartment?

What about basement apartment?

Because, chances are that if you have multiple people formulating similiar answers in the absense without having spoken to each other, then you'd expect there to be some amount of truth in their conclusions. That's why :D

(Or are you gonna' say that any guy who agrees with the ladder theory is bitter/chasing an immature female?)

Though I'm cynical about the whole dating idea and I sometimes put more stock in the Ladder Theory than I should, I still prefer a relationship with someone I could see myself being friends with (or possibly someone I was already friends with), because in the end its about companionship, which oddly resembles the traits of a strong friendship.

I think I just use phrases like "friend zone" and "friend ladder" to disguise my disgust for my own lack of "game" (for lack of a better word).

-Will

That pretty much sums it up for me, good work Ustwo. From reading that site that's pretty much al the truth that was on there.

One thing I have noticed is that you're all looking at what the site says about women and how they view men. What about what it says about how men view women?

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/images/manrating.jpg

So for those of you who are taking what this guy says as fact I assume all you want in a partner is a hot girl that's going to put out? You only care a minuscule amount about whether she's smart, funny, religious, politicall active etc etc? Long as she's hot and easy you don't really care if she's a whole bag full of crazy?

Says alot about those of you who are treating this guys opinion as gospel

Obviously other people think this guy is bitter or this wouldn't be his response to it - 54% of the worlds population at last count was female. I'm amused this ONE guy thinks he's qualified to make that statement.

I almost posted instead of

"the women around here wont agree"

something more along the lines of

"the women and some others will be very bitchy about this and basically tell the OP to grow up"

Either way I was right.

Infinite_loser is right on who he thinks doesn't agree on this

1) woman
2) asshole dude who woman love, (but they should believe it b/c it says woman love assholes)



I've also found that (not directly pointing at anyone)

3) woman who men find.... umm less attractive? Do not agree and are actually the group I find that may be able to contradict the theory. Because they won't (without a stroke of luck) get a dude on the left ladder that is of optimal aethetics... so they tend to look for other qualities, such as, the ones listed that the majority of women don't really care about.

also as filtheron stated, the unattractive men also will not fall into the "more than friend ladder" for slightly different reasons than unattractive women.

Though, they will still believe in the ladder theory, not because of its accuracy, but because they need some sort of reasoning behind why women do not like them. Ladder theory gives quite a few of those reasons to them.

Erm... That's totally true. How else do you explain the fact that the hot, slutty crazy chicks never seem to have a problem finding a guy to hook up with? :D

I'm not talking about getting laid I am talking bout relationships that have actual substance to them beyond the physical. One night stands are NOT a relationship - not accoring to my understanding anyways.

Believe this guys is to otherwise money wouldn;t matter - wow financial security for a night - whoopee! (note sarcasm)

If I'm understanding you correctly, "Because it is" isn't a reason to say it's wrong, but "everyone knows it" is a valid argument for it being right. Did I miss anything

No. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm pretty sure, however, that I did say something such as this along the lines somewhere:

I didn't say anything about one-night stands.

Men are far more visually stimulated than women are. Men put a whole lot of stock in looks. It's really no more complicated than that. Hot and dumb-as-a-rock will get you farther than average-but-sweet. No, it's not true ALL the time, but it is true on average. Similiarly, women state that they want a "nice guy" but often go chasing after the guy who's the exact opposite of what they claim to want.

*Shrugs*

They're just facts of life.

I rarely see ladder theory discussed (thank God,) but every time it comes up, the people who support it tend to be bitter nerds and losers who wallow in self-loathing and categorize all women as whores rather than try to better themselves and try to make themselves attractive to women (not just physically.) It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: assume that relationships are a competition and a zero-sum game and even if you get into one, you're not going to get anything out of it.

Well, excuse me while I go wallow in my own self-pity like the bitter loser/nerd I am.

>_>

I wonder who came up with the "Nice guys finish last" mantra?

In my experience, people whose only redeeming quality is that they're a "nice guy" and think that it should be enough.

Your honesty is refreshing on this thread.

Wow, that's absolutely insane dude.


if you want to barely deconstruct the words he used, ya. But if you want to understand them. Ya know, the part about being based in truth, and all that? It means something quite different.

I thought it was fairly clear that I reject the notion that any of this is based in truth.

And what, exactly is insane about what I wrote?

If you think the Ladder Theory is complete bullshit you've never been to college. Yes it's exaggerated but a lot of it is so realistic that it's scary, especially the intellectual whore and cuddle bitch parts. Does the ladder theory apply to everyone? Not by any means, but it does apply to a huge portion of the population.

Funny, I think it's bullshit, and I've spent 10 years in higher education. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the most educated people on TFP will agree that it's bullshit. So I'd have to say that without a scientific, random sample to back up your statement, it's really just based on your own opinion. Which is fine and all, but don't generalize to the rest of us.

Also, don't forget that a huge portion of the world population has NOT been to college, which means that if you say "a huge portion of the population," you're talking about maybe 30% of the American population (and that's only in the US; other countries have much lower percentages of college-educated people). Sorry, but that's not a huge portion, if you're associating that with going to college and therefore believing in the ladder theory.

Basically, your logic is all confounded here.

The way I see it if you've become someones intellectual whore or cuddle bitch it's because you've let yourself become that.

If you want to fuck them and be more than friends than you should have made that intention clear in the first place.

The reason you "Fall off the ladder" when you try to jump ladder is because chances are these people trusted you as a friend and didn't have to worry about the run of the mill bullshit from you that they get from everyone else. Then it turns out all you wanted to do was fuck.

I know a lot of the time, if the gender rolls were reversed, the guys maybe wouldn't mind so much. However, I've seen this happen a lot of times to guy friends and they've flat out turned their friend down because they just didn't seem their friend in that way. But hey, if people actually give a crap about the friendship you'll both get over it.

People can and do come up with all sorts of theories to explain social interaction and will be able to find a group of people to apply that to. But they're not hard and fast rules to be obeyed and the chances are that for every person you can apply it to there's a bunch of other where that shit just wont fly.

Are you talking about the negative response to ladder theory in this thread, because that fits this description too.

Earlier today:

8-year-old: I'm hungry

me: well we have Cheerios and Life cereal...I can make you a bagel or some toast to go with it

8-year-old: I don't want any of those things

me: well, then I guess you're out of luck

8-year-old: you don't care if I starve

This same conversation, in essence, is going on in this thread.

Then you live in fantasy land, most anyone can find the truth in this... nobody here is saying its 100% correct. But it is correct much more than it is wrong.

Besides its absurdity and lack of thought behind making a categorization like that. You perhaps, though I doubt, know a bunch of nerds and losers into this theory. There are more people not categorized as nerds/losers who see truth in it. Hell anyone with an open mind and any amount of experience will see truth in it.


I honestly don't see how people are even argueing this

I can't ever read the whole thing because I instantly get the same feeling about it.

It feels like something a bitter nerd would come up with after being rejected again, or perhaps someone who just got dumped for someone better looking, from a rich family who he thought was an asshole.

Oh, you mean like, all women just really want a man who's cashed up, like that kind of categorization?

We need a poll here... how many ladder-theory believers are currently single and have been rejected at least once, and have perhaps never had a healthy, long-term relationship?

LOL you actually think the majority dont?!?! LOL

That's a funny answer to his question.

You have seen into the soul of the majority of women?