The Ladder Theory - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Plan9 · 10-08-2007, 12:53 PM

I did a search and couldn't find a ref... so I'll post it.

The Ladder Theory

Quote:

The ladder theory is a theory of adult male/female interaction. It has its basis in many years of sociological field testing. it was first conceptualized in 1994 in Exeter, CA. My acknowledgments to Jared Whitson for his role in formalizing the theory.

Oh, this makes me happy.

Goes along well with Henry Rollins' Mekanik.

filtherton · 10-08-2007, 01:15 PM

I think that ladder theory applies to a subset of humanity, and i don't mind saying that i wouldn't want to be romantically involved with any of those people. But if your goal is fucking shallow people from the club scene, by all means, watch out for the sti's though.

Infinite_Loser · 10-08-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

cuddle bitch(n) - a guy who never gets to sleep with a girl but gets to have intimate moments with her like cuddling, spooning, or otherwise being affectionate. Usually this will occur in private. She probably considers him a really sweet guy, which is the kiss of death.

First off, cuddle bitches are bad, bad things to be. Maybe the worst thing to be. I mean, being an Intellectual Whore is bad, but being an Intellectual Whore who has to endure blue-balls is bordering on criminal.

As to how it fits into the framework of the ladder.

Basically this is just a guy who has a very high position on the friends ladder. So far up the friends ladder that he gets the dubious honor of getting to provide all the intimacy that a girl is missing when she's off fucking guys who basically don't care about her like outlaw bikers and band members. So he gets to be the proxy father/confessor/friend/teddy bear for her, depending on what she is missing at the time. Perhaps the only consolation of this is a ladder jump to the real ladder seems statistically a little more likely to succeed. Of course, when one is that high up the fall is dreadful indeed....

^That is 100000000% true >_>

Anxst · 10-08-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

if your goal is fucking shallow people from the club scene

That's almost word for word what went through my mind when I read this.

As in "Wow, a social model for the shallow people I meet in clubs. This is why they act like fucking morons!"

Shauk · 10-08-2007, 03:23 PM

this is why I hate dating.

Shauk · 10-08-2007, 10:56 PM

and upon discussing this with women that I know. all I gotta say is wow, it's fucking true.

so uh... I guess I should go get a real job or settle for my palm, cuz I think im an alright looking guy with a good personality, I just suck with money.

Menoman · 10-09-2007, 04:40 AM

This has been discussed pretty in depth here before, I'm a pretty firm believer in the theory on an extremely large scale of the population, but as with all theories, there are exceptions.

if you actually look at the theory, most will find the same conclusion.

Of course, the women around here won't see it that way I assure you

mixedmedia · 10-09-2007, 05:46 AM

uh yeah, you're right, I don't see it that way, because I am not that way and I have the relationships to prove it

Try being and dating, oh, I don't know...adults, for a change. Now that's a novel concept, isn't it?

and you misspelled insensitive in your title...

abaya · 10-09-2007, 05:50 AM

Hear, hear, MM.

mixedmedia · 10-09-2007, 06:12 AM

Yeah, I love how these guys keep whining about how girls won't go out with them, but then we get threads upon threads by the same guys talking about their wives and girlfriends....

mandy · 10-09-2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menoman

.
Of course, the women around here won't see it that way I assure you

DAMN RIGHT!

[QUOTE:]Says: I want a man who is motivated and has goals.
Means: I want a rich man

Says: I want a man who knows how to treat a woman.
Means: I want a rich man

Says: He's from a really good family.
Means: He's from a really rich family.[/QUOTE]

what we really mean is we don't want men who sit on their asses and do jack shit all day and expect the dough/food/luxury of having a roof over your head to just be provided by the WOMAN!

we want a man who is not going to get drunk and beat us, throw us around, cheat on us. we want a man who is not going to be insensitive. we want a caring man who will love us for who we are and in turn we will love them just the same despite the amount of money they earn, despite their family being rich....treat us right does not mean buy us stuff.

we want a man with a family who will accept us and even that isn't as important just as long as the man accepts us. rich family my ASS!!!

who the fuck cares about a rich family. if your family is rich...good for them.well done to them for making it happen for themselves and maybe grab some of their initiative to make it happen for ourselves.

if i want to be rich...i'll get rich on my own thank you kindly.

and MM is so completely on the button...try being and dating adults for a change...i think you might find it a breath of fresh air. WOMEN who actually don't give a damn about all this shite.

dont put me in a box. thank you very much.

try it...i dare ya...you'll thank me

mixedmedia · 10-09-2007, 06:19 AM

yeah, cause you know only rich handsome men get married

what they really mean, is, 'wah! I can't have my pick!'

The_Jazz · 10-09-2007, 06:22 AM

The thing I've found about pigeon-holing people is that it's impossible. No one ever completely conforms to the norm. Behaviors change. People learn better and more effective social skills.

It was an amusing read, though. It reminds me of a younger Jazz with too much time on his hands and experimenting with celebacy as a training technique to improve his 5k times.

mandy · 10-09-2007, 06:28 AM

and that's just it Jazzy...you get some men who actually don't find it amusing, they find it absolutely true. and that pisses me the hell off!

fine, i'll admit...some parts were funny and that actually warranted a smile which i gave...

but then you have people who actually believe that ALL women are that way.

The_Jazz · 10-09-2007, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandy

but then you have people who actually believe that ALL women are that way.

Heh.

On a larger scale, any time anyone says "ALL (insert descriptive noun here) are (insert adjective here)", they've mispoken. It really doesn't matter if the subject of the sentence is "women", "men", "Arabs", "rich" or "Radiohead fans". Within that subset are sure to be exceptions to whatever rule is being constructed.

Ustwo · 10-09-2007, 07:35 AM

Women find confident good looking rich males attractive

I for one am shocked!

Seriously its a silly theory that seems to be based more around bitterness.

Most of these things tend to 'work' often because the guys who rely on them are completely incompetent around women so any change is positive.

abaya · 10-09-2007, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Most of these things tend to 'work' often because the guys who rely on them are completely incompetent around women so any change is positive.

So true, so true...

Infinite_Loser · 10-09-2007, 08:00 AM

This is one of those things that all guys know are true and all women deny.

filtherton · 10-09-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

This is one of those things that all guys know are true and all women deny.

No, this is one of those things that some guys wish was true for all guys and all women. T'aint.

I think most people appreciate self confidence, beyond that, if you have to diagram out all your relationships into different zones based on whether you can put your penis somewhere, you're over thinking things.

Hektore · 10-09-2007, 08:10 AM

Ladder theory is very popular among certain circles, especially those that can be defined by the "intellectual whore" and "cuddle bitch" terms. I mean why wouldn't it be? You take a bunch of guys who aren't getting laid and tell them that it isn't their fault. The reason they aren't getting any is that all women are shallow/lying bitches and the men they are sleeping with are dirtbag/rich assholes.

You're a nice, gentlemenly fellow and it's not your fault; it's the system and you're just a victim.

Bill O'Rights · 10-09-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

The thing I've found about pigeon-holing people is that it's impossible. No one ever completely conforms to the norm. Behaviors change.

Says the insurance man.

abaya · 10-09-2007, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

This is one of those things that all guys know are true and all women deny.

Ah, the beauty of self-reinforcing beliefs. Let us know how your relationships work out in a few years, eh?

mixedmedia · 10-09-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

This is one of those things that all guys know are true and all women deny.

And this is the sort of thing that all people say who don't really have anything productive to say.

wah.

The_Jazz · 10-09-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Says the insurance man.

Nice point. Insurance, though, is about taking known behaviors, assigning a risk factor to them, then gambling that those factors will hold true about the individual. After all, not all teenage boys will get in car wrecks. If they did, they'd be uninsurable. Since they don't but still get in proportionally more, they pay a higher price for the coverage since they represent a higher risk.

I think that my theory still fits with the realities of my life. I like to think so, anyway.

Plan9 · 10-09-2007, 08:28 AM

*Crompsin dons his new t-shirt*

I <3 Generalizations

Redlemon · 10-09-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

*Crompsin dons his new t-shirt*

I <3 Generalizations

Always?

abaya · 10-09-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

I think that my theory still fits with the realities of my life. I like to think so, anyway.

It makes sense to me, but I'm a social scientist. I think there's a big fat line between making generalizations/stereotypes based on a few anecdotal experiences, and actually looking at statistically robust, scientifically-sound evidence of a normal curve of human behavior. The first makes for novels and self-help books, the second makes for studies that can be applied to the real world and to (hopefully) effect real behavior change. And, apparently, insurance policies.

pig · 10-09-2007, 08:38 AM

would this be a bad time to mention that my band only rides motorcycles, we're all filthy rich, and the biggest bunch of assholes any of you has ever met?

ladies???

Ilow · 10-09-2007, 08:50 AM

This is the typical "battle of the sexes" zero-sum competitive crap that a certain segment of the population buys into because they believe that it is more important to win than be happy. It is also the same pseudo-sociological crap that gives the humanities field a bad name. As several respondents have already mentioned, there is a shallow portion of the population who seems to be more than happy to use "tools" to increase their sociability, rather than being genuine and authentic. This is often somewhat effective because there is a corresponding portion of the opposite sex (whichever one) who is also playing the "game." Often as people become more mature they find that they do not want the same things that they did when they were younger (i.e. someone who is "rich" or beautiful or whatever) and seek a partner with attributes that go beyond physical characteristics or bank statements. Some people never mature. It should also be noted that there is a big difference in people who want actual relationships, versus people who just want to date and screw. I personally prefer the depth and intimacy of a relationship.

Plan9 · 10-09-2007, 08:52 AM

Hey! You with the finger! No advertising!

...

(posts pictures of himself sitting on his shiny chrome Shadow Sabre with a fat wad of $100s tucked in his waistband, smoking a Cuban cigar and punching a nun)

mixedmedia · 10-09-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

would this be a bad time to mention that my band only rides motorcycles, we're all filthy rich, and the biggest bunch of assholes any of you has ever met?

ladies???

Hey no fair....you know we all love you for your piggy style.

Infinite_Loser · 10-09-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Ah, the beauty of self-reinforcing beliefs. Let us know how your relationships work out in a few years, eh?

Sure thing! Make sure you do the same

Plan9 · 10-09-2007, 09:18 AM

Right or wrong, society likes systems. We like building walls, closing doors, pushing buttons.

I like examining them. The grand Us vs. Them mentality always rocks my socks.

Humans are naturally hierarchy prone. We have to have status and "enemies."

...

Oh, we've all got assholes... why isn't that enough to aid in complete social unity?

Infinite_Loser · 10-09-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

And this is the sort of thing that all people say who don't really have anything productive to say.

I know :P

Seriously, though, these types are arguments usually go nowhere. Why? Because women, in general, no matter how wrong they are or how much evidence proves otherwise, will always believe that they do no wrong or they're 'above the curve', so to speak. So ummm... Yeah. You can think you're right, and I'll do the manly thing and let you think you're right

Chances are that if you don't agree with the ladder theory on some level you're either:

1.) A woman or
2.) One of those asshole guys which women are always attracted to.

abaya · 10-09-2007, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Sure thing! Make sure you do the same

I'm happily married, hon... have been for a while, and plan to be for a long time into the future. I'll certainly let TFP know if that changes, but I can assure you, the health of our marriage has jack shit to do with the ladder theory.

Plan9 · 10-09-2007, 09:26 AM

HAHAHA...

"1.) A woman."

Damn, man... I should buy you a drink.

...

*phone rings* Captain Obvious called... he wants his job back.

Infinite_Loser · 10-09-2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

I'm happily married, hon...

Really...? I had NO idea...

mixedmedia · 10-09-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

I know :P

Seriously, though, these types are arguments usually go nowhere. Why? Because women, in general, no matter how wrong they are or how much evidence proves otherwise, will always believe that they do no wrong or they're 'above the curve', so to speak. So ummm... Yeah. You can think you're right, and I'll do the manly thing and let you think you're right

Chances are that if you don't agree with the ladder theory on some level you're either:

1.) A woman or
2.) One of those asshole guys which women are always attracted to.

I never said that women do no wrong.

My point has been that the guys who believe this theory are immature and are only going after immature women. And, I strongly suspect, the problem isn't that girls won't go out with them, it's that the girls they want to go out with won't go out with them. It is truly a self-fulfilling prophecy, but you want to blame it on all women. It's fucking ridiculous.

And, personally, I think if you believe something like the ladder theory you'll never get anywhere in a relationship because you'll continually throw the baby out with the bathwater with your closed-minded assumptions.

If this is what you truly believe then enjoy your life alone. It's hardly any woman's responsibility to disprove your stupid convictions about who she is. *shrug*

filtherton · 10-09-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Chances are that if you don't agree with the ladder theory on some level you're either:

1.) A woman or
2.) One of those asshole guys which women are always attracted to.

Assuming that that's true, the inverse of it is that if you believe in ladder theory you are an unattractive man. Maybe if you worked on your unattractiveness, instead of blaming women for not being attracted to you, you wouldn't need a formal theory to vindicate your for you inability to be attractive.

LazyBoy · 10-09-2007, 10:52 AM

A good friend pointed me towards it years ago, and I have since had it bookmarked on every computer I've ever owned....At first I thought it was a nasty joke by some cynical bastard....but I've since accepted it as truth.

-Will

10-09-2007, 05:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	uh yeah, you're right, I don't see it that way, because I am not that way and I have the relationships to prove it Try being and dating, oh, I don't know...adults, for a change. Now that's a novel concept, isn't it? and you misspelled insensitive in your title... __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

10-09-2007, 05:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Hear, hear, MM. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

10-09-2007, 06:12 AM	#10 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	Yeah, I love how these guys keep whining about how girls won't go out with them, but then we get threads upon threads by the same guys talking about their wives and girlfriends.... __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

10-09-2007, 06:19 AM	#12 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	yeah, cause you know only rich handsome men get married what they really mean, is, 'wah! I can't have my pick!' __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

10-09-2007, 06:22 AM	#13 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	The thing I've found about pigeon-holing people is that it's impossible. No one ever completely conforms to the norm. Behaviors change. People learn better and more effective social skills. It was an amusing read, though. It reminds me of a younger Jazz with too much time on his hands and experimenting with celebacy as a training technique to improve his 5k times. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

10-08-2007, 01:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think that ladder theory applies to a subset of humanity, and i don't mind saying that i wouldn't want to be romantically involved with any of those people. But if your goal is fucking shallow people from the club scene, by all means, watch out for the sti's though.

10-08-2007, 03:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	this is why I hate dating.

10-08-2007, 10:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	and upon discussing this with women that I know. all I gotta say is wow, it's fucking true. so uh... I guess I should go get a real job or settle for my palm, cuz I think im an alright looking guy with a good personality, I just suck with money.

10-09-2007, 06:28 AM	#14 (permalink)
mandy Addict Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa	and that's just it Jazzy...you get some men who actually don't find it amusing, they find it absolutely true. and that pisses me the hell off! fine, i'll admit...some parts were funny and that actually warranted a smile which i gave... but then you have people who actually believe that ALL women are that way. __________________ The Imagination equips us to see a reality we have yet to create

10-09-2007, 07:35 AM	#16 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Women find confident good looking rich males attractive I for one am shocked! Seriously its a silly theory that seems to be based more around bitterness. Most of these things tend to 'work' often because the guys who rely on them are completely incompetent around women so any change is positive. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-09-2007, 08:00 AM	#18 (permalink)
Infinite_Loser Junkie Location: Lake Mary, FL	This is one of those things that all guys know are true and all women deny. __________________ I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

10-09-2007, 08:10 AM	#20 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	Ladder theory is very popular among certain circles, especially those that can be defined by the "intellectual whore" and "cuddle bitch" terms. I mean why wouldn't it be? You take a bunch of guys who aren't getting laid and tell them that it isn't their fault. The reason they aren't getting any is that all women are shallow/lying bitches and the men they are sleeping with are dirtbag/rich assholes. You're a nice, gentlemenly fellow and it's not your fault; it's the system and you're just a victim. __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

10-09-2007, 08:28 AM	#25 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Crompsin dons his new t-shirt I <3 Generalizations __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-09-2007, 08:38 AM	#28 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	would this be a bad time to mention that my band only rides motorcycles, we're all filthy rich, and the biggest bunch of assholes any of you has ever met? ladies??? __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

10-09-2007, 08:50 AM	#29 (permalink)
Ilow Junkie Location: Pats country	This is the typical "battle of the sexes" zero-sum competitive crap that a certain segment of the population buys into because they believe that it is more important to win than be happy. It is also the same pseudo-sociological crap that gives the humanities field a bad name. As several respondents have already mentioned, there is a shallow portion of the population who seems to be more than happy to use "tools" to increase their sociability, rather than being genuine and authentic. This is often somewhat effective because there is a corresponding portion of the opposite sex (whichever one) who is also playing the "game." Often as people become more mature they find that they do not want the same things that they did when they were younger (i.e. someone who is "rich" or beautiful or whatever) and seek a partner with attributes that go beyond physical characteristics or bank statements. Some people never mature. It should also be noted that there is a big difference in people who want actual relationships, versus people who just want to date and screw. I personally prefer the depth and intimacy of a relationship. __________________ "Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about" --Sam Harris

10-09-2007, 08:52 AM	#30 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Hey! You with the finger! No advertising! ... (posts pictures of himself sitting on his shiny chrome Shadow Sabre with a fat wad of $100s tucked in his waistband, smoking a Cuban cigar and punching a nun) __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-09-2007, 09:18 AM	#33 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Right or wrong, society likes systems. We like building walls, closing doors, pushing buttons. I like examining them. The grand Us vs. Them mentality always rocks my socks. Humans are naturally hierarchy prone. We have to have status and "enemies." ... Oh, we've all got assholes... why isn't that enough to aid in complete social unity? __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-09-2007, 09:26 AM	#36 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	HAHAHA... "1.) A woman." Damn, man... I should buy you a drink. ... *phone rings* Captain Obvious called... he wants his job back. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-09-2007, 10:52 AM	#40 (permalink)
LazyBoy Insane Location: Memphis Area	A good friend pointed me towards it years ago, and I have since had it bookmarked on every computer I've ever owned....At first I thought it was a nasty joke by some cynical bastard....but I've since accepted it as truth. -Will __________________ Life is nothing, everything.....and something in between...