TFP womens guide to....men
 

Ladies, it has become clear to me that there is a huge knowledge base sitting here waiting to help us poor men better serve you. My hope is, that you might give unto us.....the lowly dreamers of your splendor, such knowledge required to make you all happy.

Seriously....we need all the help we can get.


Please tell us what you truly desire in a man.

Tec, in my experience the best way to go about doing this is to ask the woman you seek to please specifically, seeing as all women are different. I'll give you an example: my lady loves the smell of cedar. I put cedar in my drawers so that my shirts and sweaters have a slight hint of cedar. I don't mind the smell myself, really, so it's mutually beneficial. It's nothing big, and I can guarantee that it's not something all women will appreciate.

Also it repels pests, I've come to find out.

Understood, but this isnt meant as a "Tec Needs Advice" thread.....its meant to be a library of the many tastes woman have, that all men might gain insight into the mystery we all deal with every day.

For starters... do you remember the "Porn for women" thread? The one that had a man cooking for no reason or otherwise helping out with things around the house? Fowers for no reason? The thread that most of the men scoffed at?

THOSE are the thigns that make most women go pitter-patter and make sure that the men doing them get laid much more often. :D

just so you realize every one of us will have a COMPLETELY different idea of what we want for this one tec....

ok, i'll bite -

He must be able to get up, bathe, dress appropriately, go to (and KEEP) a job, pay his bills on time, not be wallowing in debt, (some is fine, but a LOT is not). come home from work and after a reasonable "winding down" time - participate in whatever personal, family or social (within reason) activity is required with a minimum of fuss. He must be able to have at least a minimal grasp of why women think that a new vacuum cleaner (used DAILY) is (in our opinion) more important than spending the same amount of money for ball game tickets for that weekend. hmm.. Must be able to tolerate a house full of women having oh i don't know - a tupperware party or something once in a while if he expects to have his buddies around for the game on sunday. must NEVER use personal grooming implements on fishing line, wire, (finger nail clippers) or to turn screws "in a pinch" (tweezers, nail files) if he expects his beard/moustache trimmer not to be used for the pelvic region. mmm, If he doesn't want his shaving cream used for our legs etc, he can't bitch about us spending the money on the "girlie equivalent" Ah! He must not be a "shedder" ie: walk in the house, take off coat, drop, take a step, kick off shoe, take a step, kick off other shoe, take a step, toss keys on table, take a step, set briefcase/bag down, take a step - and so on. STOP AT THE DOOR. USE THE CLOSET. Must realize that unless they make enough for a housekeeper, they do NOT have one, and everyone there should do their part not to trash the house. BE OBSERVANT - if every time you "put X "there" your female MOVES IT, and it is always moved TO THE SAME PLACE - wake up and just put it there to begin with - your chosen place to put said item is unacceptable and we don't feel we should have to tell you where it belongs. we don't move your shit because we love you and want to pick up after you, we move it because where you put it ANNOYS US.
I'll stop here, because this is getting long, and its just the TIP of the iceberg. I have people that ask me ALL THE TIME why I am not in a relationship. I am not because I realize I am picky, and am sick of settling for less than what I want. It's easier to be alone than to train a man not to fuck up with me.

Reminds me of my 3 letter word qualifications...
He must have a J O B
He must have a C A R
He must not live with his M O M or D A D or in the basement of any other such relative
If he has a K I D he needs to pay his child support and not be a deadbeat

Most if what Midnight said goes for me too... hell hath no fury like that Pan discovered I am capable of when he used my good pair of tweezers to try to pull out a fuse in the car.

*grins* Methinks sage and I could give you a plenty long list all on our own here Tec.....

My biggest - be willing and attempt to communicate. Just as you cannot read our minds .. we cannot read yours. We don't know how our behavior may be making you feel or react, for better or worse. Be willing to call us out when we're not "making sense" so that it comes out on the table.

For me.. the "noticing" that shit is being moved is not really fair to the guy if there's not been an actual discussion as to WHY that particular location is annoying. If after the fact there is an agreement and you forget or feel lazy... just think twice before you commit yourself to something in the future if you don't like being nagged. I think we're born with that gene, to varying degrees.

Oh. And I like any guy who can give a quality foot massage has forever earned a place in my heart.

*Nods* Foot massage or a good back rub will make me purr too!

amonkie : no "discussion" is needed. one time of saying "dont put that there. it goes *place it belongs*" should be enough when the person leaving shit lying around is NOT the one that cleans the damned house

Gee, is that all??? A relationship is normally a matter of compromise, each side gives a little, but neither getting completely what they want, unfortunately thats reality. Unless one side is domineering and the other submissive, and both agree on those terms. It shouldn't be the womans answer to everything is correct, unless the guy is just some pussy, and caves on everything. Although that does happen.........

/me slowly backs the fuck out of this thread

I think the mention of communication is important. To expect a man to be "perfect" is setting yourself up for disappointment as much as it is to expect a woman to be "perfect." This is real life: we're not perfect.

If something bothers you, it doesn't help to either quietly stew over it or to be confrontational. Many things we do are habitual or related to our situation. A man who "sheds" when getting home may do so because he is completely exhausted and doesn't think it's a big deal. (My wife often "sheds" something fierce, and she has way more crap than I do.) Maybe he intends to do something with the stuff later, but gets even more exhausted as the day ends. I think this kind of thing is more habitual. Maybe this is how some of us act when we get home, and we don't realize how it affects our partners, especially if they don't say anything about it.

I think the best way to look at any of these items (and these seem to me an itemized list of "desirable traits and habits in our partners") is to realize that we are often overwhelmed with distractions. We must communicate how we feel about things, and what we expect of others...and why. If it makes sense, then you can certainly reach some compromises, and maybe even breakthrough solutions.

Do you want a life partner, or a caregiver? Is there no more on this list? (Besides the massages...)

It's rare when a comment on the internet gets a belly laugh out of me. Had you not used fuck, the comment would have gone unnoticed. The fuck really gave the comment some kick. Well met.

A point of clarification....
Is living in a basement apartment okay?

Actually further clarifications would be nice: McJob, K-car, and not affording gas for it because of child-support payments okay?

If Brad Pitt lived in his parent's basement, I doubt many ladies would be picky.

ah yes, the men chime in. Tec wanted answers, starts to get HONEST ones, and the men just have to show up and complain... and THIS is why men dont get the answers that tec asked for in the first place

I'm sorry, who's complaining? :orly:

I don't recall the men using too many all-caps words....

not you baraka.. no no of course not. (roflmao) this thread asked what women want. not what men think about what women want.

I'm still sticking with my initial post. It's just like dieting: some diets work well for some people and not for others. Why? We're all different, be it physically or emotionally. What one will want or need, another may hate. Some women don't even like an honest man! Your best bet is to do your due diligent investigations, find out what makes her happy and unhappy, and to allow the act of being yourself to fit that as well as you can. No tricks. No all applicable rules of thumb. Just Tecoyah being the best Tecoyah he can be. Or anyone being the best anyone he can be.

Yeah, you're right, Midnight. I simply thought your reaction was a bit much when Tec was asking about your "desire". *shrugs* Is there anything else you would add to what you said? What else is it you look for?

will: agreed
Baraka: yeah. i'd add that my post may seem like i have rigid rules. but it needs to be understood that when I am the only one working, and the one doing the cooking. cleaning, shopping, bill paying and so on, I am well within my rights to expect the behavior outlined above. (which was the situation at the time in question) I have NEVER after the initial 6 months, found myself still in a partnership. the result is movement from a partnership into a dictatorship, and rightfully so. I dont deny pussy as punishment as some women do when "things go awry" because I actually ENJOY sex. but I will make a mans life a living hell, on purpose. now, im sure you can see why i choose to be ALONE as opposed to going thru the trouble.

How about someone I dont have to support who is responsible.

So can money replace a man? If you were independently wealthy, would you be happy on your own? There's gotta be more to it.

On a more serious note...

I am currently in the best relationship I have ever been in. Why? Because we are both adults. We don't HAVE take care of one another, but rather we enjoy being able to. We appreciate each other, and our individual strenghts and weaknesses compliment each other well.

We both communicate, openly and honestly. we don't have to guess @ what each other is thinking, because we talk. I've never been as happy in a relationship as I am now.

how about someone that respects one man's right to ask for the opinion of women at large without men feeling the need to pipe up about what they find wrong with the logic of the women posting?

*glances at the Lady's Lounge*

With all due respect, Midnight, though Tec is one man, he was asking on the behalf of the rest of us.

And, like you, we demand satisfaction.



Note in the margin: I realize my post rate so far is unnecessarily high, so I will go to bed now.

well on that note, im done posting in the thread. so what little help i might have been will now be, (im sure to the relief of the masses) withdrawn. good luck to you all.

woah....ya'll know my first comment was an attempt to lighten the mood a little, right?

Basically if I understand what the ladies are saying its that they want us to be MEN not little boys.

Quite right, I apologize, he did ask for the ladies opinions. I'll just shut the fuck up now.

The thread's fair game. This is a discussion site. He could have easily asked a female mod to start it in the Ladies Lounge if his intent was to have only female replies. Trust me, tecoyah knows the system here.

Uber: that was a thread addition, ie: what i want; not telling the men not to - they want to know what we want. Tec's knowledge of the system was never in question.

Oddly I've found what women say they want in a man vrs what they really want in a man only mildly correlate.

I found that they key to womens happiness was changing the direction of the question.

The issue, I discovered was not trying to please the woman so much as convincing the woman you were worth pleasing. Now this sounds self serving and manipulative and perhaps it is, but its also what fits our nature. Even if you are snipped, she is tied, and on 4 forms of birth control, sex is still about reproduction. Its 100% chemical and its far older than our species. As such women want men who are strong, not necessarily physically, though it can help but mentally. Someone who can rise in status. A strong man doesn't grovel at a womans skirt so to speak. I figured this out in my late teens (after being rather unsuccessful in long term relationships) because despite being very attentive and everything you would think a woman would want in man, I was always sending signals that she could do better.

How does this translate into the real world? Its rather late and hard to explain in detail at this hour for me, but its basically letting her know that you are desirable and worthy of her doing things to make YOU happy. Instead of trying to impress her, give her chances to impress you.

Some men try to act like peacocks. They display and strut and attempt to woo the female with their actions, but we are not wired like peacocks. Peacock males do nothing for the female after sex, the female is stuck rearing the chicks all by herself. As such she picks the 'best male' and he shows off for her (and every other peahen out there, they are not monogamous). Acting like this is dooming you to failure, both short and long term.

As human child rearing is generally a two way en devour, you show your strength as a potential (and later as a) provider and protector. Its not something conscious for most women, but to deny its there is to deny who we are. If you do this then those moved glasses are a little less irritating, she can forgive you for not changing the toilet paper roll, and she won't be quite so upset if you don't make a big deal about the latest Hallmark Holiday.

Now a word of warning. I'm sure many have read this and interpreted it as me saying the key is to be a jerk. While apparently for some women that IS in fact something they seem to find attractive, thats not what I'm advocating. What I'm saying is show her that you are your own man, that you can do well without her if she decided to leave, that you don't NEED her even if you would prefer she is with you.

As for my qualifications in making these claims. Well evolutionary biology qualifications aside (and yes this is all found there) I've been married to the same woman for 10 years, and we have been together for 17, we were in a long distance relationship for a number of years without issue, we have two kids, most people would think we act more like newlyweds and I think we have the strongest marriage I know of.

Things that would make me happy with a man? I'll just give a list of things I am currently looking for in a man shall I?

I want someone that remembers stupid dates like my birthday, valentines , Christmas, Easter and our anniversary. Doesn't need to be a big deal just a cuddle, a kiss, a cheap bunch of flowers from the local shopping centre or even just hold me close and tell me he loves me.

Someone who when we go for a walk will hold my hand, or give me his coat if I'm cold.

I'm looking for someone who when I come home from a day at work and I am in tears will run me a hot bath and make me a cup of tea rather then asking me when dinner will be ready. Someone who'll laugh and tease me when I do something stupid like start crying over a book or sad movie or even if I'm just drunk and making up words.

If he comes home from work and I have gone to the effort of doing something romantic the first thing out of his mouth shouldn't be "I hope you realise I'm not helping you clean up all these rose petals"

I want a man who values me as an equal, who realises that I am his partner in life. Someone who I can lean on and rely on, with who I don't have to be strong all the time.

For me those are the main things, ofcourse little things like remembering my favourite scent or that I prefer him with a beard / clean shaven etc always helps ;)

Women arn't a collective whole. Just because they are mysterious to some men does not mean they conspire to keep secrets. There's a stereotype here that men are simple and women are difficult, but that's ridiculous. Women, men, people are complicated. Asking for what women want and expecting a miraculous revelation of an answer, is just a ludicrous fantasy that really just belittles the individual woman and rapes her of her personal identity. You can find your idiots guide to women in Men's health, or Cosmo, or some other cheap magazine that appeals to everyone with this kind of dilemma, but that's all that it (and this) is, a pipe dream for desperate people. Treat a woman as a individual person just like yourself. Communicate and ask her what she wants, and decide if you are willing to give her that.
But maybe this thread was just about fun and entertainment... if it is we all kinda missed the point a while ago.

Heated threads man me a sad panda :sad:

Any how, for what it's worth, I can sort understand where Lady Sage and Midnight are coming from.

I currently wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I had to support my SO entirely. I want to be with someone who has a similar level of financial and emotional independence. So, I can understand where they're coming from.

Having said that though, you love who you love and I'm only ever too willing to compromise.

Hey, people want what they want. An honest question was asked, and the ladies are trying to give honest answers.

And I think Will has made an extremely good point which puts peoples answers in context.

Peace out :)

Quoted for truth

Perhaps my clarity in this thread is lacking, but the purpose is actually being met. It is important to understand that indeed, every single woman will have desires in a man quite unique and thats a good thing. If however, one were to take the "collective" theme so far a pattern becomes somewhat clear, and this is within about 12 hours. My hope here is the creation of a resourse for those terribly confused by the women they encounter, and a place to study the psycology in hopes of making a smoother passage. The benefits of such a library should be felt by both men and women as they form relationships.
There is of course an entertainment aspect to this, otherwise I doubt I would even have created the thread, but that does not mean we need disregard the Data while we smile and laugh. Gaining insight into the female mind is never a bad idea, My hope is this thread continues to allow us to do so....and give everyone a good chuckle in the process.