Unfortunately you completely miss my point. I was completely secure when I was single and I am secure now that I am married.

The point is that marriage is a 2 way street. I do not feel that my husband should have to support me- nor do I feel the need to support someone else.

WHY would I want to waste my time looking after someone who isnt self sufficient? If I wanted to do that, I would have adopted a puppy instead.

Note: If Pan were in a horrid accident tomorrow and I had to take care of him I would.

much to your dismay i'm sure, i'm back.

It might come to mind, at least for some of you, that I would be better off alone, and the MEN would certainly be better off - well I've been alone for a number of years now, and perfectly content. I don't argue with myself, I put things where they belong, and I don't argue with myself about finances, or anything else. whats my point?

I'd like for a man NOT to insist to me over and over that my current single situation is NOT what I want. Um, yes it is. At this point in time, I've become so completely disenchanted with the male sex and its behavorial variables that I'm by myself and fine that way. That doesn't mean to say that other people would be able to deal with that. But yeah - I STRONGLY desire men to quit f'ing telling me that I don't really want to be alone.

Some folks are called to the single life.

Sorry, Lady Sage, I wasn't completely missing it; I was simply speaking to the aspect of it that I wasn't clear on. But you have fixed that. Thank you.



And I'm inclined to agree with Ustwo for the most part, but I'm not completely certain. No women have commented on what he said.

I wish there was some way you could convince my sister-in-law that these are worthwhile benchmarks. All four husbands thus far would have not met most of those qualifications with the current one not meeting any. As it is, I believe she will be with this one for the long haul due to her feeling like divorcing a fourth time being another failure on her part.

And no offense to the OP, but I don't know that this thread will ever go in the direction you intended due to reasons already noted. However while it may never become a tool for a woman's guide to men, it is a good discussion.

This is what I want.

Don't we all?

I dunno... can I have fries with that?

(Attempt at making people chuckle)

/chuckles

Dang it! I was sincerely hoping that I could pick up some good tricks on bettering myself as a husband, but instead I spent 10 minutes perusing this thread and all I get to walk away with is "pick up after myself"..........

I just hope that everyone can see eye to eye after the dust settles.

It is a bit of a pisser ain't it...heh. Give it a month, it should get much better.

I know nobody is going to believe this... But seriously... I shampooed the living room carpet naked today instead of watching the late games.

My wife seems pleased. she likes the way the room smells freshly 'pooed.

Psycho dad- I hope she rewarded you by making the sheets dirty for doing that!

Since I am married, obviously am not actively looking for the following. BUT, if hubby and I split up in the future, this is what I would want for something more than a fling.

1. Physical attraction. Just doesn't work without it.
2. Similar life philosophies...in regards to religion, political leanings, etc. Opposites may attract, but I don't think they tend to make it for the long haul.
3. No one is perfect. He has to accept my faults, and I have to accept his.

That is all.

It has been mentioned that Tec knows why he began this thread here rather than in Ladies Lounge.

Tec, I want to know why you posted your topic here, rather than in "Living."
Are you asking what women want from a man, sexually? That question would be fitting to this particular forum. Or are you asking for something that goes beyond mattress dancing? Either way, there will be no one answer as you must know.

Am I incorrect in thinking that what you really want to know is "how did I get into bad graces, and how do I make amends?" I think I might have something to post, if I know what the real question is.

Cardinal sin of relationships: assuming that current behavior will change from dating into relationships, engagement, and marriage.

Example:

Man and woman are dating. She notices he doesn't pick up after himself. They fall in love and get married. Later, woman constantly harps on man for not picking up after himself. Who the hell did she marry? Did she marry a man who picked up after himself? No. She did not. She also did not marry a man who puts the toilet seat down or is willing to stop seeing his friends because she tells him he can't and has to stay in and help her knit boots for her cat. It's because they assume behavior patterns change once in a relationship. They don't. You bridge the gap between the two of you with compromise, not by changing who people are.

Example 2:

Man and woman are dating. He notices she has lots of male friends. They fall in love and get married. Later, man starts getting pissed off that his wife has a lot of male friends. Who the hell did he marry? Did he marry a woman who had nothing but female friends? No. He did not. He also did not marry a woman who acted like his personal chef, chauffeur, maid, and prostitute, yet he will eventually wonder why she's not cooking, driving, cleaning, and putting out. It's because they assume behavior patterns change once in a relationship. They don't. You bridge the gap between the two of you with compromise, not by changing who people are.

They're stereotypes, yes, but they're extremely popular.

If you don't like a certain quality about someone now, assume they will be like that forever, and don't get with them permanently if you don't like it- or, see how attached they are to those behaviors. For the right person, people are generally willing to bend quite a bit to accommodate the others' wishes... but you can't wait until you're already in a committed relationship before springing those things on them.

$0.04

I put this in sexuality, because most relationships actually involve sex to one degree or another, and by placing it here a back and forth of male input is possible (clarification). And truth be told I really didnt make the thread for anything other than its stated purpose, as I am well aware what caused my relationship breakdown (for the most part), and have no desire to get it back. I had no alterior motive I am aware of, short of perhaps gaining more insight into women, which I never think of as a bad thing. As for the real question...Its in the OP, but a refresher might be helpful:


Ladies, what makes you happy in a relationship, what do you look for in a man?

What I love about my husband (among many other things) is his ability to engage with me intellectually and physically, coupled with his ability to function completely on his own. He is not an attention whore or insecure in any way that affects me. Emotional stability, sense of humor, willingness to wrestle with me on a weekend afternoon, a real commitment to equality in the relationship (we split all our chores down the middle... and YES, picking up after yourself like an adult is a *very* important skill for both genders to develop), and a lack of need to act macho, manly, muscly, arrogant, all-knowing, and/or the world's funniest/flirtiest/strongest man are essential to my respect for and interest in my husband.

Did I also mention that he has the most beautiful eyes in the world? :) And he never withholds physical affection. Ever. I always know that I am loved.

The reason this thread got out of control is that asking women what they want in men is not particulaly useful.

When I was in my 20s I'd see Cosmo articles or Oprah shows in which women complain about the men they've been dating and describe that kind of men they'd like to meet. These things were a temporary ego boost because I generally fit the description: I had a steady job, a car, I didn't live with my parents, I would call when I said I would, I did not abuse achohol or drugs.

But when attempting to date women on real life, I found out that these qualities didn't really matter. In fact, guys who fit the description of what women DON'T were more likely to get dates & girlfriends easily. One magazine article I saw expressed the dicotomy quite well: "No Woman Wants a Sleep-Around Guy." This makes as much sense as "no one buys best sellers." If no woman wants him, then how can be be a sleep-around guy?

I've noticed that this section doesn't have the endless "nice guy vs. jerks" discussions that fill up other relationship forums, I don't want to start one now. But I will say that that for both genders, what they think they want intellectually is not the same what actually triggers romantic/sexual interest.

I'm so jealous!! Dont you have an older unmarried sister abaya!! :confused: God you are just the most adorable woman........

Well, I dunno, I married the one that matched what I wanted intellectually and who also triggered me romantically/sexually. Isn't that what marriage is about? :orly:

Oh, and sorry Dave, I'm an only child. :)

/me's hopes are dashed, and contemplates suicide........until /me realizes that there are over 3 billion women on the planet, and maybe half are of the appropriate age, and of that perhaps half are actually intelligent & attractive, and of that maybe half are actually compatible. Damn that leaves 187,000,000 women??? :)

You're lucky. For me, attractive, sexy, intelligent, available, AND interested in me were mutually exclusive qualities.

Well, intelligent and attractive are two separate qualities. So the number of women of appropriate age who posess both them is less than half. Then subract those who are married or in relationships. And of those who are left who are not in relationships, subract those who are too emotioanlly messed up to be in relationships. And then cross off those who are into short guys if you are tall, or have some other requirement for men that you don't fit.

Still, after doing all that math, I figured there was still someone out there for me. I just hoped she didn't live in Madagascar.

One never knows. Incidentally, the love of my life (my husband) :D spent the first 22 years of his life in Lebanon... not exactly Madagascar, but still pretty damn far away from Seattle (my hometown). We met in grad school, when he moved to the US to do his Master's, and I came to the same school to do my PhD. Go figure, it was like we'd known each other our whole lives.

Remain open to all possibilities, and you never know what you'll end up with. :)

ok Im going to add my two cents here, for whatever its worth

What does Shannon want in a man?

I guess I am unlike some here…I really don’t care if my tweezers are used as tools….hell I use them that way myself hehehehe We seem to have shower handles that start to spin freely on themselves…Im the first one to grab my tweezers to pry off the cover to get to the screw to screw them back in (though I DO use a screwdriver for that…and I use the appropriate one for the screw type :p ) Dave is the first one to grab his beard trimmer when my pelvic area needs de fuzzing so I can shave and not go thru 3 razor blades doing it.

I could care less if he gets undressed in the living room, bedroom or basement…the clothes make their way to the laundry basket sometime within the next 24 hours (and he does it himself). I on the other hand am famous for getting undressed in the bathroom and leaving piles of thongs and socks for days in the bathroom floor before I remember to pick them up and carry them to the laundry basket.

What I care about are things like


Dave walks in from work after sitting in traffic for 45 minutes in August with no air conditioning….I follow him to the bedroom and lay on the bed while he changes into cooler clothes and don’t smother him as soon as he walks in the door..because I know the last thing I want when Im hot is somebody crawling all over me playing kissy face or trying to discuss who is going to cook dinner. He also knows I will have a glass chilling in the freezer for his crown and coke

I walk in from work and he knows I’ve had a hell of a day….I’ve either had a hectic day at work, something on TFP has pissed me off, something has gone wrong on one of my boards…he knows without me having to ask, to leave me alone and let me chill (and brings me a glass of iced tea)

He knows the days I just don’t feel like cooking dinner and does it without me saying a word.

We both understand and do not tolerate “calling in sick” when we are not. If we want a day off, we call our respective bosses and say…Im taking a vacation day today.

We both know that if someone asks us to do something on a work nite, it BETTER be a special thing for us to go out. In the same vain, we do not accept invitations to do things without discussing it with each other first.

If he wants to buy something and I say we don’t have the money right then, he is not trying to figure out how to rob Peter to pay Paul….we budget whatever it is in and get it when we can.

We both clearly know that if one asks if something is wrong…the other person is going to get an answer….and not some “no, Im fine” kind of thing. If we were mind readers we’d be rich and quitting our day jobs. The answer may be, yes something is wrong and it has nothing to do with you and I don’t want to talk about it right now (which is usually the case because in 4 years we have never had one fight or disagreement on anything, not even toilet seats or toothpaste tubes)

He knows I will kill him if he spends money on fresh flowers for me, I see it as a huge waste, he knows he’ll get smoochies galore if he brings me home beef jerky or a pack of reeses. I surprise him with things like meeting him at the airport when he’s come back from “wherever” or arranging to be home when he gets there if he has his car at the airport, and he knows clean sheets will be on the bed waiting to be dirtied.

We never leave the house in the morning for work with out a hug and a real kiss and “I love you, drive safe”

If one of us (and yes he does say it occasionally) says “im not in the mood” the other does not take it personally and is just as happy to snuggle

We do not embarrass each other in public

We do do not trash each others families

We both make our lunches together

If one of us is sick, the other does the best of their ability to take care of the them and their responsibilities. As much as I HATE taking out the garbage, when his neck is acting up I would never think to ask him to do it, or to complain about it.

He has no problem buying feminine hygiene products for me. He has no problem stopping by the store on the way home from work for something we may need…never complains about it.

I could keep going but you’d get bored so I wont. I guess I could have just said, “I expect my man to be as respectful to me and my emotions and my characteristics as I am to his” and that might have said it in a succinct way….but then I couldn’t have bragged that Dave is every single solitary thing I want in a man, and trust me I know…I lived for 16 years with a man that wasn’t.

Great post Shani. It sounds like you and Dave are very mindful and considerate of how to treat each other!

Oh, you can keep going. Dave is a a fantastic guy (which I knew already), and your writing shows your love for him beautifully.

You're so lucky.

I think all women want respect, and it is key to any relationship's success. If you respect your partner, communicating in a clear way is an easy process.

These topics get out of control because we generalize what a group wants and then the individuals who don't fit into that group begin to give their responses. If a woman started a similar thread and I replied with something like: "I don't want a woman who's ever worked at Outback Steakhouse" then a woman who has worked at Outback steakhouse will reply in a heated manner and someone else will respond to her in a heated manner stating that I was only talking about myself and not all men and then another woman would respond and so on and so on and so on...

What I find humorous is every time we have a thread like this we have to have the: "I/He/She don't/doesn't speak for all men/women/chickens" responses and talks. Oh, yeah, and the if-you-don't-like-what-you-see-use-the-back-button talk has to be reiterated as well.


This is true for everyone, I think. But does it get you a boyfriend or girlfriend? I can respect Gina Gershon all I want, but that alone won't make me her boyfriend.

Hey Shani, great post. :) I was just posting over in the other "relationship" thread and realized I was doing the same thing... talking about how ktspktsp and I respect each other. I don't know if that's what most women consciously want, but hey, both he and I live by it and wouldn't have married each other without it, so it's key for our happiness as a couple. It sets the tone for pretty much everything for us.

And does respect get you a girlfriend/boyfriend? Well, if it's the right kind of person to be with, yeah I think it does. If it's someone you just want to fuck and be done with shortly, well respect doesn't really factor in so much. But I think the people worth being with are the ones who care as much about respect as their prospective partners.

I, for one, found Midnight's post informative. I think part of the reason we date is to find out what we can and what we can't tolerate in people. I do think that her post is slightly over-reactive to a specific person / specific persons in her past, but we ALL do that. We all date someone who has quality X, and swear we never will again.

Men always say that women don't want the things they say they want. Generally, I think we do... there are just other things we want to that we either don't realise we want, or don't want to say we want. The other problem is that the people we are attracted to are not necessarily the people we are happy with long term. In other words, we want someone who can kiss and cuddle with, but we're attracted to the guy who is never available (men do the same by the way, they want an intelligent woman but are blinded by the fluffy girl with the fit body). Hopefully, we grasp some emotional maturity as we grow up and learn to be patient and observe people with some objectivity rather than being blinded by sheer emotion.

To answer Tec's question - I really desire a man who is thinking about me, and shows it in subtle ways like picking up on the fact that I hint that I might not like pickles, then at a later date reminding the server at a restaurant not to put pickles in my burger because I don't like them... or remembering that I like a certain band, and buying their new CD for me 5 months later when it gets released. Or noticing that I don't like dishes to be left unwashed overnight, and that I always like to leave the kitchen spotless... and making an effort not to make a mess if he goes in late at night to make some toast for himself. It IS the thought that counts, for me at least. If a man is showing the effort to at least try to be considerate and thoughtful, that goes a long way in my book.

They rarely do in this. When I first sort of 'figured it out' I mentioned this in a group of friends (back in college) and most of the girls said I was wrong. Then after one of them who told me how wrong I was came to me and told me how right I was but she didn't want to let the other guys there know its true.

To put it in a nutshell doing what a woman says she wants is a recipe for failure.

Sorry I cant agree with that....Im a woman who means what she says....failure only comes when the other person refuses to believe I meant whatever I said

Really.... What you wrote is essentially a twist of the "women don't like nice guys" discussion that goes on endlessley at other places where dating is discussed.

This was contraversial in the 80s/early 90s, but it seems to be pretty widely accepted now.

As I've said elsewhere, women and men are diverse enough almost any statemant that starts with "all women" or "all men" is incorrect. When someone writes that there is a big difference what many women say they want in men, and what they respond to romantically/sexually, that means that with some women, there is not a big difference.

Why would anyone WANT to be with someone who didn't mean what she/he said? I mean, talk about culling out the people you should be rejecting... that's not my idea of someone I'd like to marry (nor did I marry someone like that). :) I'd like to think that NO ONE should marry those people; their inconsistency is manipulative and annoying, and by marrying them, you are validating their behavior. :p

The first thing I want to say is that I find this thread hilarious for a few reasons, but I don't want to get into it now.


People so frequently talk about ideal qualities, what they need, what they want, what they can do without, but in reality, most of it doesn't matter.

I used to think I would only want to be with someone who looked and acted certain ways, and that got me nowhere; as I grew up I realized that not only was that a superficial way of thinking, but that there were plenty of attractive people who didn't fit that mold. I moved on, but still thought that I could only be with someone who thought like me; that got me nowhere and I once again found myself attracted to people who didn't fit that mold and discarded it. I only recently managed to cast off the idea that I would have to be with someone who shared my philosophical and religious views, and not artificially restricting myself once again proved to be the way to go.

I still have one ideal, but it's just something I hope for rather than a criterion that must be met: if I end up settling down and getting married, I want to marry a woman who's smarter than me.
I guarantee it's the kind of guy who typically lives in his parents' basement that's the problem, not the actual location.

I'm really glad you're back.

I have an issue with this statement. I understand what you mean, but I think that the attitude that a lot of people have is warped; relationships shouldn't be a compromise or a competition. When not for reproduction, sex shouldn't be a reward, and withholding it shouldn't be a punishment. At the simplest level, it's the mutual fulfillment of a physical desire; in a relationship, it's not only that but a way to deepen the emotional bond by pleasing each other.

For shampooing the carpet instead of doing something fun, it seems more fitting to me if she had gone out of her way to cook his favorite meal, or treated him to something special.

I've said it before and I'll say it again now. The reason "nice guys" finish last is because that's all they have. If I tell a girl she should meet one of my friends and when she asks him why I said that he replies "I'm a nice guy," it means that it's hi sonly redeeming characteristic; he probably has a one-dimensional personality, is willing to be her doormat, will do anything for her, but won't do anything more. The way for relationships to work is for the partners to see each other as equals, not for one to put the other on a pedestal.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sex is 100% biology. Its one of our most privative retained behaviors, logic plays very little to no role in it. Now perhaps I didn't state it correctly but if a man acts like most women SAY a man should act, most women will not be attracted to that man. Its not based on logic, its that primitive part of the female brain that says 'he is too willing to please, your children need to be stronger'. In the long run I think it makes most women happier to be with that kind of man, since that basic primitive need is satisfied. I think some men get so hung up on what women want, and what they can do to please women, that they forget that women should want them and please them as well, and in the end neither are happy.

Thats partly true, but I think it not quite accurate.

Its not that women don't like nice guys, as much as women like strong guys.

What women don't like are guys who are over attentive. Do everything they want and they will assume they can get someone better.

I'm not really going to disagree with you here. I've watched the shows on Discovery channel. :p

But do you suppose this is still true once a woman has passed child-bearing age? I tend to think not. Once the urge to reproduce has passed, we look more for the qualities that are not biologically motivated.

Which might explain why men tend to continue to be inclined toward the traits in women that indicate fertility even as they age. Being that they are capable of producing active sperm well past the age that most women remain fertile.

I'm not sure about that, but its possible. From an evolutionary stand point, once you are past child bearing age, what you do is irrelevant unless it impacts the lives of your existing offspring. What this means is that there isn't evolutionary pressure to evolve new behaviors past child bearing age. There are some very interesting evolutionary possibilities with this and our now increased life expectancy, but I think this goes a bit beyond the scope of what makes women happy, or what they want from men.

What I do think happens to women as they get older is as the hormones calm down it leaves more room for logic and wisdom to take over. Though that being said, I'm still not sure about it. Its quite possible that its a trait that remains, at least in some, even after its 'usefulness' in biologic terms is gone.

Ok, I finally made my list. We're all different, bla bla bla. If my "wish list" sounds like I am describing a family man, that is because I have been married for 12 years. Think of it as a list of things I have and appreciate, rather than a list of demands. If it sounds like I like being spoiled and pampered, I do. I adore it. But I also enjoy spoiling and pampering him, too.

Ok, in no particular order, what I want in a man:

I like romance. flowers, chocolate, opening doors, slow dancing, snuggling, backrubs, footrubs, putting his jacket over my shoulders if he thinks I am cold. All those things make my heart go pitter patter.

A man who knows that if I try to toss him onto the floor or the bed, I am supposed to win. I am pretty small, almost 5.2", and know full well that I am not much of a physical match for a 6-foot man. Besides, I am probably trying to jump his bones.

A man who knows more about cars than I do and can either fix them, or knows what to tell the mechanic. I am clueless.

Someone who likes kids (we have three) and is not afraid of changing a diaper, or feeding or bathing a small child.

Takes responsibility running the household with me, including doing chores, without acting like he is doing me a favor. I don't act like I am doing him a favor every time I go to work and pay some bills.

I enjoy someone who likes sitting on the porch, listening to the rain. Someone who enjoys watching sunsets, and laying on a blanket in the yard after dark, watching the stars.

I want someone who is fun, playful, kind, has a sense of humor, can make me laugh.

Someone who knows when to make me laugh, when to run me a bath, when to make me chicken soup, or just hold me. (and I know you don't learn this overnight)

Someone who is supporting, loving, does not withhold physical or verbal affection. I also want monogamy and fidelity. That is what works for me.

I would rather be loved and wanted, not needed. Don't get me wrong. It is nice to feel needed sometimes. But in general I would rather be "chosen" because he actually enjoys my company... instead of just, well, "there to do everything he can't do / doesn't feel like doing".

Be still my fluttering heart (and tummy) when a man can cook. Even better if he can also appreciate my cooking.

I prefer a man with some degree of confidence, but not too cocky and definitely not bossy. And someone who can communicate his needs/wants...and differentiate between his needs and his wants. The "needs" of your family should come before your "wants", just as your "needs" should come before your family's "wants." There has to be balance.

I appreciate a man who starts dinner when he gets home from work a couple of hours before I do.
I also appreciate a man who has a bubble bath ready for me in the winter, if he arrives home from work before I do.

A man who understands that I am a power tool junkie, and does not complain about it. And I will not complain if he does not know how to use them.

Someone who calls when he say he will. Who shows up when he says he will. Who will call if he is running very late, so I don't worry about him.

A romantic or sexy text message from time to time melts my heart. But don't call every free minute you have to check up on me. It's too needy.

I prefer for someone to ask me before committing us to social plans.

Leave the damn phone out of the bedroom unless you are sleeping. I'm afraid this one is a must.

I want someone who is a bit exciting or interesting. Even though I admit that I am probably a little boring.

Someoene who is either friendly or at least respectful towards other people. I pay attention to how a man treats others. Because if he is a jerk to others, odds are that he will treat me that way eventually.

A nice smelling man can make me swoon. I love mens' colognes and aftershaves. Mmmm.

I love a fireplace, but I suck at building a fire. I can't stress enough how much I appreciate a man who can build one, and keep it going.

I love having someone who takes care of me when I am sick. and lets me take care of him when he is sick. I am not just talking about bringing the advil. When I was in a car accident this summer, I was stuck in bed, loopy on pain meds. My husband ran interference for me with the insurance companies and such. Considering he was overseas in a different time zone, that meant late night emails and phone calls for him (when he was able to use the phones), which cut into his sleep a bit. And I would have done the same for him.

Ok. The End.