Shauk

I don't know how to do this really.

Last night I fired up the laptop to do a little internetting. I noticed her picture on my friends list changed on myspace. I opened it up and it was the picture I had taken of her over the weekend.

We had a fairly emotional weekend together and talked about stuff pertaining to lots of "if" type things as to getting back together and givng things another attempt.

I was under the notion that she was "getting over" the ex that she left me for so I just said "you're not ready"

well, back to her myspace, I believe in body language, and people saying what they want to say without meaning to say it. I also believe you can tell a lot about a person who keeps things fairly updated through some sort of expressive conduit on the internet, be it myspace, livejournal, or TFP.

Well her song had changed to "if tha mood" by esthero. Not a song I'm familiar with, but the lyrics were basically saying she wants to fuck this guy who she used to be with, that she dumped (ok at this point, could have been me right?) but the lyrics also go on to say that this guy is with another woman, and they wind up fucking anyway.

I didn't really wanna make any assumptions. Then she called me last night and I was pretty blunt with the whole "what the fuck is the story with your profile song?"

she basically got weepy again, said she didn't wanna tell me because she didn't want me to think any less of her. well eventually it came out that she had slept with him again on the tuesday and wednesday just before she came to see me on saturday. He's with 2 other girls right now too and they aren't even dating and she just keeps trying to throw her fucking pussy at him to get him back

how fucked up is that? then she got all upset and said something like "I didn't wanna tell you because I knew it would upset you and it feels like we're headed down this path again"

I asked her to clarify and she said that it felt like we were getting back together and that she felt it was fucked up that she felt the need to apologize to me since we're not even together, but her feelings are her feelings.

I can understand that.

I just told her off as best I could though. She can't get her emotional/intellectual needs met by me while she chooses to fuck some 20 year old bitchass who's sleeping with 3 girls a week. We're not headed down any path as far as I'm concerned. I asked her why it was so fucking important to her what I thought of her, we're not dating, we're not together, what the fuck am I to her?

her response, "the most important person in my life"

to which I said "i don't know if I can handle that kind of responsibility.

she said "Well I figure you wouldn't talk to me so much if you didn't want it"

to which I pretty much ended our phone call right there and I have no intention of talking to her until she isn't fucked up anymore, which at this rate, is never.


but fuck this hurts like an open wound all over again. Don't be friends with your exes if you still love them, its bullshit.

Jinn

I bet you $10 you can't stop talking to her for 3 months.

If you contact me Wednesday, November 7th, 2007 and you can honestly tell me that you haven't spoken to her, I'll Paypal it to you. If you don't have paypal, I'll write you a check.

PROVE ME WRONG

I think you're going to fuck up and talk to her again. This post and other posts makes it clear that she's trying to manipulate you and keep you around for emotional needs while she gets everything else from someone else.

Is that really who you want to be for someone?

PROVE ME WRONG.

She is really not worth it if she treats you like this; especially when you consider how many available women there are to choose from. I suggest you go out to a bar and flirt with random attractive women; you need to realize how much better you deserve.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Plan9

Hell, I'll one up Jinn Kai. I got what you need, bro.

Shauk, I'll take down your address and come beat the shit out of you in a month. I'm available Friday after noon, Sat, Sun, and Monday.

Getting beaten might work better than the cash equiv of a 6-pack of MGD. Yeah, that whole "Fight Club" cliche.

Seriously though...

Shauk... if you wanna talk about this bitter-over-women crap... PM me, bro. I can give you my email, my phone number, etc. You're not alone so don't act like it.

We are in the same spot... but we see it differently.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Shauk

You're probably right, but thats why I'm pretty much seeking advice, a "how to stop talking to someone who's emotionally draining you 101" course if you would.

Plan9

So PM me sometime if you wanna get constructive.

Don't make me change your avatar to a bunch of scrolling penis icons.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

ratbastid

The same way you do anything. By doing it.

I quit smoking cold turkey by... not smoking any more cigarettes. How you stop talking to her is by (say it with me) not talking to her.

Shauk

cigarettes don't call you, pm you, text you, call your roomate to get to you, or drive 300 miles to come visit you unexpectedly. She does.

it's not "quite" the same.

ttoozz

Nice guys always end up being the "emotional tampon" of unstable girls.

This situation reminds me so much of me and my ex from hell. She cheated on me so many times and ran back to me right away because she knew I was stupid enough to take her back and continue to be her emotional tampon.

In my opnion she is poison for you and she needs to stay out of your life. This may sound off the wall or cruel, but if you find valid reasons to hate her in your mind you'll have a much easier time getting over her and move on with your life.

Plan9

It is all part of the game. Don't play the game with her. Don't do it.

You read the threads "Mekanik" and "Untouchable" a month ago? Don't do it.

Nobody wins that war. Chemical reactions just rot your insides like Drano.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

snowy

Then disconnect all connections you have. Change your phone. Change your AIM. Change your email. Don't reply.

And don't tell me it's too hard to do these things--it isn't.

And if she shows up at your house--leave. She'll get the message eventually.

Yes, it fucking sucks, but if you have made your intentions clear, then it's her fault for trying to keep pursuing you.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

ratbastid

You've clearly never quit smoking...

There are days I'll suddenly get cold sweats and SMELL (actually, TASTE) cigarette smoke, even though there's none around. Sometimes in a bar or walking down the street, I'll walk through a cloud of somebody else's smoke and FUCKING NEED ONE RIGHT NOW. And I quit March 1, 2001--over six and a half years ago.

How do I stay quit? By not smoking a cigarette. I do whatever I've got to do NOT to smoke one. There's nothing more complicated to it than that.

Shauk

Plan9

Wisdom from my brother regarding my situation (just like yours):

"Stop playing catch with the bitch. Just because she throws the ball doesn't mean you have to hold the glove up and intercept it. Let that sucker keep going."

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

cadre

Good luck with cutting ties, I know it's difficult but it's something you really have to do. Many people never understand that to get over someone you have to be apart and I think that's why so many people are emotionally fucked up. It may seem really complicated and hard but in reality it's not, you just have to do it. Meet new people, that will help.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

abaya

CUT. OFF. CONTACT.

What everyone else said. Especially Ratbastid and Onesnowyowl.

Be a man of your word. Let that e-mail be your ABSOLUTE LAST.

Refuse to be a cuddle bitch. She's a goddamn tar baby.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Eowyn_Vala

Ditto Ditto Ditto to what everyone else said. Yes it's hard, probably one of the hardest things you'll ever do for yourself, but if you do it, you can look back later in life and be so glad you did. She doesn't deserve you!

__________________
Cain: I know what you're doing. I've lead troops into battle before.
DG: And, how am I doing?
Cain: Well, there's less *hugging* when I do it

Toaster126

Quit whining and take some action to improve things in your life, dude.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Cynthetiq

I stopped doing the bad behaviors by not responding to them any longer.

Put her email address in your spam filter.

Put her IM on ignore.

When caller ID comes up with her name, don't answer the phone.

She knocks on the door. Don't answer it.

She leaves a message saying she's driving over, you leave before she is to arrive.

Stop making excuses and do it already. I'd say be a man and do it but these things apply to women too. Be a mature adult and do the things you need to do for yourself.

good luck.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

MechCow

You will find in your life there are triggers that make you want to speak to her. The first thing you want to do is remove all triggers. This may involve trying some new activities or hanging out more with new people whatever.

I'm right there with you in a similar situation bud. Just been spending time with my housemates and friends I never had a chance to catch up with which is really helping. Its working for me your mileage may vary y'know.

tecoyah

Just decide to kill the love, it takes awhile but can definatly be done. Once you dont care about her anymore, its very easy to ignore whatever she does.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Plan9

... and when we say "kill", we really mean ignore.

This process does not involve a machete, a few garbage bags, and some lime.

Got it? Good.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Push-Pull

Everyone has given you the righteous advice, and I'd like to add some of my own.

That hurt in your heart? You know, that dull ache with the sudden flare ups of stabbing pain when you think of her? Aren't you just a little bit pissed that you feel that way? Take that hurt, and turn it into anger for the situation and then into the strength to do what needs to be done. When you wake up every morning, tell yourself that you're tired of feeling hurt and that today you refuse to feel that way. Eventually, you won't have to tell yourself that.

The BEST thing you can do for yourself is to keep your head up and don't let her phase you in any way. Even if she comes to your door, your responses should be cool and robot-like. She'll get the hint.

Good luck man, we know you can do it.

__________________
"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me-

"Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown-

DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

Shauk

well. I guess we'll just have to come to terms that I'm a weaker person than you'd like to see. I don't know. whatever, cold turkey or all in, I guess I have other things more important to worry about than this girl, like, me.

I dunno, maybe thats just my problem all along. Maybe if I take care of myself then the situation with her will take care of itself as well, I don't know, but It's taking just as much out of me to try to NOT talk to her as it does to try to talk to her.

Maybe I shouldn't devote any energy or effort to either direction and live and let live.

Willravel

Just live.

Infinite_Loser

Oh, that's all right. I'm a weak person too. My ex can do to me as she pleases and I'll never ever grow a backbone where she's concerned >.>

__________________
I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

analog

No no no... what you need is constant verbal abuse. If you so desire, I challenge you to not talk to her- whether you tell me you managed to keep away from her or not, I will PM you in a month and start verbally abusing you until I break your spirit.

Really though... she's playing you. She doesn't really care about you if she's doing this shit to you. She doesn't. "But she does"- no, she doesn't. Move along, there's nothing more to see here.

Hit it once more if you must... go fuck out all your frustrations onto her... it'll be great sex, and then you can walk away a new man.

Shauk

fuck if I know, maybe sex would clear the brain at least, seemed to work on my last ex. hah.

god damn men and our penii.

MrFriendly

Hmmmmm, maybe having sex with a random.

If it were me at least, If I had sex with the person I'm trying to get over it would completely slay me.

__________________
You are not a slave

Plan9

Thanks a lot, Yoda.

DON'T - DO - IT! Don't put your penis in that emotional beartrap! She'll trick you into using the "L" word and stuff-and-stuff. Bad juju, Sam-You-Am.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

yippiekiyeh

I hope that you've moved on, it's been about a month since the last post. Be strong, don't be the one left holding the bag.

Cross-Over

Everybody's advice of cutting off communication is spot on. It will be real tough though, especially when you're feeling lonely. If you have some good friends to heavily lean on for a while, do it. If you have another girl you're interested in, pursue her. I know many won't agree with the last line, but I think the potential risks in starting something new outweighs the consequences of not cutting her out of your life. It may not have to be one or the other, but again, I think when someone is feeling lonely, he/she is susceptible to reverting back to someone that meant/means a lot.

ruggerp11

Three easy steps to consolidate most of the advice here:
1. Stop talking to her in every way
2. Get fucking angry, shes using you godammit.
3. Do something new, meet new people, have some fun.

__________________
Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain
Do What makes you happy
--Me
BUT!
"Happiness is the absence of the striving for happiness" - Chuang-Tzu

Ourcrazymodern?

Unqualified: I lived with the last one for more than 25 years before I realized I was being "emotionally drained".

Be wiser.

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

analog

I like your summation.

Also, Shauk: I promised to start verbally abusing you in about 5 days, so what's the verdict? lol

Shauk

the verdict is i'm moving in with her.... make of that what you want I guess.

ubertuber

Well, that didn't exactly go according to plan...

Best of luck man, I hope this works out for you.

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

Shauk

lol no joke.

MrFriendly

When you say moving in, as in, you're now together and going to be living together, or moving in and staying friends?

__________________
You are not a slave

Shauk

to elaborate..

I'm kinda fucked at this point no matter what I do.

I don't know.

ugh where to start.

shortly after this she started showing me a lot of attention, I was still just kinda 'meh' whatever about things, and was just trying to get inside that little head of hers and just flat out asked her if she just wanted to keep seeing me or what?

she pretty much was still just fucked up over her ex and needed a friend I guess. For some reason, I'm ok with that, I know it probably seems weird to feel somewhat sympathetic for her being fucked over and cheated on by some guy, but I guess I just like to know whats going on in her life.

at which point she reminds me of an upcoming cruise. we go on said overnight cruise, once we get in line she starts acting weird. tells me she's changed sexually, that it's no longer and expression of love, it's just "fucking" to her now. which kind of pisses me off, I guess thats how she was treated by her ex so now she's "damaged" in that regard. She goes on to tell me about these guys in line for the cruise that she knows and how she had a crush on this one and that one (it was an "employees and friends" cruise and they were her co-workers

anyways, the cruise basically went as well as you could imagine with that kind of fucked up set-up and I just really wasn't feeling it, she was helping me in more ways than she could imagine as far as "getting over her" went at that point.

we're laying in bed on the ship and I'm just like "what the fuck are we doing?"

"you tell me we're "heading back down that path", that you miss me, love me, invite me all the way out here to go on a cruise with you, tell me that you're so fucking excited that I'm coming to visit, and as soon as I show up, you act distant, and start talking about how you're so fucked up sexually that you go on to tell me about all these guys you want to sport fuck, and don't even manage a single substantial conversation with me for the entire day, why the fuck did I even come out here?"

she's pretty much completely blank and cant say anything other than she's sorry for the most part. I just stop talking to her, go to sleep..

next day I wake up and she's got her arm around me and her head on my chest. lots of memories of good times going through my head, put me in a slightly better mood, but I wasn't forgetting yesterday.

I just didn't talk to her aside from necessity as we went about getting our bus back to seattle. At which point I took a different seat and buried myself in the laptop and didn't so much as look at her for the next 3 hours.

Get in the car at the pier and we're heading back to the house, where my key is, the key to my car, my way home is waiting for me.

she's trying to talk to me in the car and I'm just so upset at myself for getting my hopes up for thinking that she'd want to be with a guy like me given that I have no direction. Just plans, lots of plans, plans that I need to do something with, but never do.

you know how you get so upset/angry/embarrassed sometimes that you start crying but you're not making any noise or having any muscular issues with your face, your eyes just water.

yeah that was me for about 2 hours as I just sat in the car. We'd pulled up to her place and I just didn't wanna talk or move. Just think about my errors.

I finally just got up and grabbed the bags out of the back of the car, slung them around my back and my sholder and went in, picked up my key and started for the door.

she blocked my way and wouldn't let me go, she was just pretty much calling out to me while I was standing there buried in my own cloud of emotions. i didn't want to talk, I just wanted the weekend to be over, to go home, to put my embarrassment behind me.

then it all came out from her end, I don't know, maybe she realized that I had had enough?

after the waterworks I just asked her if I was wasting my time wanting something that I couldnt have. she just said "not yet"

lots of "not yet" "not ready" "i can't go back" and then I just said "ok" and went to leave again.

having managed to barely sleep because of being upset, and being on a cruise that docked at 7am when we hit the room at 3am. Driving home exausted from my emotional expunging was probably a bad idea. I didn't even make it half an hour away before I pulled over and passed out on the side of the road for 3 hours.

as soon as I hit spokane county, I got the text messages, "I miss you" "<3" "when are you moving over here?"
I was confused, I called her up and asked her what was with the messages. Apparently, sometime in those last 7 hours or so she decided she was "warming up" to the idea of us getting back together.

huh, whatever, still no real invested emotion from me at this point, I did that already.

so again she starts in with asking me when I was going to move over there. Now if you recall my post history at all, this was a plan of mine sometime back in june or so to move over there, but on a visit, things with us got awkward, to the point that I thought it wasn't a good idea for me to move over there just yet.

I told her I wasn't moving over there because things were awkward, I asked her why she wanted to know.. to which she says "isn't it obvious?"

"nothing with you is ever obvious, you fuck my shit up, you confuse me so badly, now tell me why you want me to move over there so bad!"

"because I want you around, I miss you"

"thats all? thats not a good enough reason"

"well why not? you want to move over here anyway dont you?"

so it went.

I hadn't made any choices, i told her I'd think about it.

I went back to work, my pizza delivery gig as it is... I interacted as poorly as ever with my roommates... of course, I'm not happy here either.

ok so fine.... I'm impulsive and just give notice to my roomates and my employer and say "ok, ill move over there then"

of course i'm not emotionally in to this... she's acting very happy again. Why not? she gets the guy who puts up with every last bit of shit that she manages to dish out and still winds up being able to cuddle him when it suits her.

bitch.

that'd be me, not her. lol

*sigh*

so yeah, another phone call goes by, I'm learning more and more about her situation over there, about her ex, the guy she left me for. How he was cheating on her from the moment she left me to be with him with HIS ex...
She got played the fool for 4 months with this guy before she broke up with him. then he cheated on his new girlfriend with my ex. I found this out pretty much due to a slip of the tongue and her body language. but it was before she started expressing an interest in me. well her ex's best buddy has been trying his hardest to "be there for her" and be her friend, and get in her pants, but she's having none of it because according to her, she has standards.

I don't get it, the guy is in shape, he's pretty cool, a little on the emo side, but not a bad guy I don't think, kinda weirds me out how I met her standards if he couldn't. I'm out of shape, impulsive and erratic, and generally can come across as an asshole if something is bugging me at all. but hey, at least I don't cheat on people. I guess that counts for something.

So no, we're not "back together"
not yet anyway.

She told me on this call that the guy (her exes friend) who keeps trying to get in her pants and her were hanging out when she just decided to tell him that "James is moving back over here" (yes, she said "back" as if I've lived there before, which is weird because she said she told about 4 people and she's said "back" every time, which is weird to both of us, she doesn't know why she says it that way) he pretty much /emo'd about it and just asked if we were getting back together, and she said "yes"

of course at this point in the call i'm kind of half listening.

then it kinda hit me, what.... last I heard... you were just "warming up" to the idea.. now we are getting together?

I mean I guess i'm not all that adverse to the idea, it's what I wanted originally before all the obstacles and emotional bullshit happened.

she told me the reason she started freaking out and being stupid on the cruise and talking about other guys is because before we got in line, when I was taking pictures and showing them to her, she had this really strong urge to kiss me.

it scared her into being a retard and hurting me apparently. She doesn't know how to deal with her emotions I guess. she never really has, and it's been something I've understood about her and have always been able to extract as i've grown rather "good" at reading her other non verbal cues.

I know I'm walking in to a potentially bad scenario, but it's also potentially good. It really could go either way, it just depends on how she handles it at this point since she knows how I feel about everything now. She knows that I wont be content being "just a friend" unless she proves to me that she's got no more redeeming qualities as a partner to me, at which point we could probably just be friends since i'd no longer have interest in her finer qualities (which I never write about because apparently I only write about negative things I need help with, I really do paint a gloomier picture than it is)

So right now, my personal focus is getting in to seattle and getting a job and being in an area where my music will better accepted than... Idaho/Spokane.
She's a side project, I can't let her consume me any longer really. I just don't have it in me to even try to be remotely clingy about this, not when I'm going to be living with her again.


but then, I decided to bring up the issue of rent the other day. it was going to be 900 a month split 3 ways in a 2 bedroom house.. now if my math is right, that means, I wont have a room. I'm not bringing a bed, I was going to crash on the couch.

her solution. sleep in her room. We slept together for 5 years, she says, I'm sure I can handle it.

it's kind of funny because I felt rushed to be her "lover" or something at this point. Straight out of my apt into her bed? no dating? no reacquainting?

I guess dating would be stupid for us though, what am I going to ask her? her favorite color? what she does for a living? her taste in music? I know everything about her.

I wouldn't really say we're together but it sounds like thats where I'll be.. hard to say. *shrug*

I'll keep you guys up to date for sure though, dont doubt that one bit.


until then, please hold your "i told you so's"

my gut feeling is that she's sincere at least, my gut feeling is also that we have a lot of shit to figure out before we're free and clear into "together" status.

cyklone

Go for it Shauk. Most people will do this sort of thing at least once. You have to do it at least once to really have it burnt into your soul that it is a fucking stupid thing to do. Please just promise us all one thing Shauk, that you will learn from the pain that this is going to bring you. Having said that, sometimes miracles do happen, so, best of luck.