How do you feel people actually think?

I'm sorry...what?

I don't follow you.

Look, you seem to be looking for back-up on a theory that I don't know how anyone could agree with. It is too pat for the complexities of human interaction. I'm sorry if you've had an incident in your personal life that is making you ask all these questions. But if so I can assure you, you are a victim of circumstance, not of an inescapable universal truth

so mixed...you umm...want to grab lunch sometime? ;)

sure, uh, let me just straighten my stockings *wink, wink*

well, really you look a little stressed out sweetheart - maybe i should just give your shoulders a little rubdown..

seriously - i really think if more people paid attention to non-verbal cues and took a little more time, they'd know whether the person would be offended by casual flirtation. and you develop a certain amount of rapport that allows that beautiful gray area to emerge where you can flirt in a friendly way. just walking in a popping down your psychological cock isn't going to work with many women, period - i don't care how good looking you are.

a friendly smile and a sense of self-confidence also go a long way.

so does a cucumber down the front of your pants.

pig, I love you :)

The thing I love about you Pig is you're concise. Well freakin said :)

That statement holds true irrespective of physical looks in my opinion.

To me, flirting is teasing and being a little silly. If someone's attempt at flirting is sleazy or has sexual overtones, that's just bad flirting. It's a good idea to gauge whether your audience would be receptive to playfulness. Women who "flirt" are usually just good at gauging which men would be receptive to their flirtation and are better at knowing when to back off and be professional.

I SO used to agree completely with this. That is until a fairly new female employee went not just to the owner of the company to report someone for sexual harassment, but to hire legal council and actually persue the matter in court. I dealt with the man involved on a regular basis. He was a nice family man. MADLY in love with his wife. He regularly dealt with a great number of fantastically beautiful women. I was one of the large group of women that got together and went to bat for him. he easily won the court case, but ended up having to leave the company because they were afraid to fire HER because she had already established herself as someone quick to jump to legal action on things.

The man in question was LEFT by his wife. The woman he would go on and on about all day because she believed the crazy woman that charged him with sexual harassment.


I'm sorry, but if you think "well good morning, thats a lovely outfit Jane" is sexual harassment, you need to stay the fuck home and not go into the workplace with men.
You'll get a hell of a lot worse out there. Jesus.. I've been groped, poked, goosed, grabbed, what do i do? Smack the perv, and go on about my business. If it keeps up, I'm sure i'd do something else about it, but sheesh - I'd talk to the other women in the workplace if they had been bothered first before doing anything that could screw up the persons job or life.

Midnight, unfortunately stuff like that happens too often, even in Aus.

My old man had to face the harassment tribunal several times because he wouldn't award positions or cases to people he didn't feel were capable of doing the work. God forbid he hand those things to people who were competent and just happen to be attractive as well, all sorts of outrageous accusations got leveled his way.

But full credit to him, he always stood his ground.

Midnight, I'm pretty sure I agree with what you said. What part of what I said were you trying to distinguish from your point? I thought I was saying that people should be dealing with it personally (as you apparently do) instead of making it a legal/HR issue.

lol sorry for not being more clear. the "punchline" or differentation being:

I almost got a hard-on reading Pig's and M.Media's messages here.

Is that sexual harassment, too?

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it's not just sex and sexuality this applies too. :)

Yet another example of using an extreme case.

I don't understand your comment.

What I mean is that any action you do is not judged by how you want it to be perceived, but by how another chooses to perceive it. Subtle but significant difference.

I'm a natural flirt, Hell, I flirt and don't even realize I flirt. I was raised and developed a sort of niceness that can get me into trouble. I don't flirt to try to get women into bed though, and actually I am quite shy in that aspect, not to mention deeply in love with my wife. The way I "flirt" is to listen, talk in soft tones, hug, compliment, and show a respect that not many do.

I also realize in my business it can be very bad. Female and male clients hug me on a daily basis because they know I am one of the few people at work that truly cares and will do all I can to help them and I'm a hugger. I feel the embrace along with caring and hope in the eyes as we hug gives clients a belief that maybe there is hope for them.

My being nice to a woman client and trying to show her that she may still have some inner and outer beauty left, may help her find the courage to change what she needs to change. It may help her leave that abusive man who told her she couldn't find anyone else. It may help her self esteem and lead her to believe she doesn't need to sleep with guys, get stoned and work to please men while selling her soul.

The problem is, in my profession, I am not supposed to hug. I know someday, some woman or man will take my hug the wrong way and press the issue. I am as prepared as I can be for that day.... however, I cannot change my nature, I flirt and I hug. That's who I am, who I always will be and I like myself for that.

Hell, it sounds like you're being a good human being.

Something that everybody is attracted to on some level.

I USED to think it was simply a case of "unwanted" attention. But anymore I'm nervous just getting int he same elevator with a woman if there isn't anyone else there. All she'd have to do is say I touched her wrong, witness or not, and *POOF!* you're on the unemployment line! Not that I think most women would do that, but it only takes one. So I am VERY careful now who I flirt with at work. Hmm... I guess it still hasn't stopped me though. lol

That's why I am very leery to be in an office and doing an individual with a female client. Due to the nature and confidentiality, I have to close the door. Once in there a female client can start screaming and I'll be gone, my license will be gone and everything I worked for will be history.

This is why I had to go to admin over changing female beds. I flatly refused to change a bed if there was a female client in there asleep. All she has to do is wake up, I startle her, and she screams bloody rape.

In the business we are very aware that there are some addicts that will do for money to supply their habit. The company I work for may believe my innocence, but if said female got a good attorney and he threatened to go to the media, the company would hang me out to dry. They'd probably fire me, let her sue me (have me pay for my own attorney even), then if I lost they'd sue me for defamation and damages.

And if I won and proved my innocence, I still wouldn't have a job, my reputation and prestige would still be shot and there wouldn't be a damned thing I could do to get any of it back.

Course I'm paranoid and a fatalist when it comes to this subject.

Jeez...sorry if I offended you. Me and my big mouth. :D