Emotional Chess / Untouchable - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Plan9 · 07-10-2007, 09:41 AM

Hmm, let's see if this is kosher-legal...

This is an excerpt outta Sweatbox, a Henry Rollins spoken word CD from like a million years in my past. I transcribed this piece many moons ago ('97) and had it tacked to my wall for years because I really relate to it. For me... it gets easier to understand each year. I thought maybe others here would, too. The colorful figurative sayings really nail it for me.

Quote:

Untouchable.

"Most of you have been through like... the relationship... ya know, you've gotten down with the boy or girl or whatever - rock, a table leg, or whatever... whatever your preference is... and you remember, of course... how the relationship... like, ya know... EERRRRRZZ... BAAAM! Ya know, and so number two comes around and you say to yourself: "Ah-ha! Well, I'm not going to do that, that, that, and that... 'cause I remember the last time I did those things - look where it got me.

So, relationship number five, a little bit more crafty: "Aaaah-well-hahahaha, I know now that when you say this, she thinks it means this, so if you want her to know that you mean that, you gotta say this."

Okay, relationship number fifty. Really crafty, really mean, you're like, ya know, like some god damn secret agent. Ya know, it's like emotional chess. Okay? It's like: "Well... so I can do this, this, and this... I'll say this, this, and this... so when I go out and do it she won't be able to say anything 'cause I've given her permission to go out and do this, this, and this at the start of the relationship. She can't use it against me in court." It just gets really ridiculous and you find that maybe you had a bad trip with someone else and you take it out on this innocent other person who comes walking down the pike. And this is this thing about that:

That feeling, that untouchable feeling. After you've been through a rough thing with someone else and somehow you managed to survive it and come out in one piece. Whole, but harder for it. That untouchable feeling, like no one is going to do that to you again and why don't they just try it and see how far it gets them. Ya might go as far to get yourself into another relationship and test yourself by seeing how cold and realistic you can be and how far you can go without feeling something, like some kind of messed up drinking contest where you down a gallon of whiskey and show off the fact that you're not drunk, that you can handle your booze, no sweat, that you can emotions, no sweat, that you can go almost all the way and pull out right before you start to feel.

What control you have, so proud of yourself, you tell yourself that you're really doing it right now. That this is good because you've got a grip on the whole thing and it's a good thing that you grew up in time before you wrecked yourself on some stupid relationship. You laugh at all the old things you used to do, a month ago, in the old days, before you got wise, before ya saw the light, before ya got hip to the fact that only way to enjoy someone's company is to enjoy yourself on their time. To be open about being closed, to be honest with yourself about lying to yourself, about using someone else's body to masturbate with instead of using your own, to come to the realization that the only way not to get hurt is to hurt somebody else and keep it that way.

And somehow you make it all right. You have a better understanding of yourself now and you've learned that it's okay to feel good, even if it's at someone else's expense. It's okay because now you are your own best friend. No one loves you like you do. You gotta look out for number one because that's the only one that matters. You! You tell yourself you've been through the wringer and you're smarter, stronger, and tougher now because of your trials, when really you are meaner, more petty and cruel than you've ever been and it doesn't matter who the next person is in your life, they aren't going to get away with what the last one did, and why not? Because you will get away with it first!

Alright... uhm, it's very easy to have some kind of shitty deal happen to you and turn it around and just be a rotten son of a bitch, or daughter of a bitch... or whatever... towards everyone around you.

Oh well, ya know, you're walking down the street and an assassin came out and blew your leg off, okay, you're a little upset about that and so you're a rotten piece of shit to all your friends because of all the bad luck you've suffered. Well, what's even better than that is letting all of your trials and your tribulations and all the shit that damn near killed you, and all your rough times turn you into a stronger person. And strength isn't like just being more mean... strength is being more kind. And that's why you see like, a guy who's been to prison maybe, he's been through the wringer there and instead of just all going like: "Hey, muthafucker!" he's just like: "Hey, man... how ya doing?" 'cause he doesn't have to be yelling and screaming and gettin' in your face 'cause he's already been locked down in the hole in the middle of nowhere for 30 straight days, so his experience kinda broadened him, made him a little kinder.

Just remember that you should take all the bad shit that happens to you and let it strengthen you so you can turn around and be so much cooler for it instead of more fucked up for it, because if you don't you might end up just destroying yourself before you even get along down the road.

Ya know, it'd be real easy to be fucked up by your parents and just be a fuck up for the rest of your life instead of learning from it and making damn sure that you never do that kinda shit to anyone again. So, uhm, that's the idea I'll leave you with, hopefully a good, positive note."

Yeah, that was Henry Rollins... sometime in the early '90s.

I worry that a lot of us have fallen into the third paragraph mentality.

Hyacinthe · 07-10-2007, 09:52 AM

Nice quote Crompsin.

Quote:

Just remember that you should take all the bad shit that happens to you and let it strengthen you so you can turn around and be so much cooler for it instead of more fucked up for it, because if you don't you might end up just destroying yourself before you even get along down the road.

That's my favourite bit.

Maybe I'm idealistic or naive or just plain stupid but I hate the idea that there might be people out there that are stuck in that "hurt them before they hurt me" mentality. Some part of me just rebels at it, finds it almost impossible to believe that there are people out there that actually want to hurt another person. Even though I know they exist.

Yes this outlook has gotten me hurt, more then once to be honest - I just keep hoping from the best in everyone I meet though. I think if I didn't it would crush me.

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense - kinda sleepy so yeah, will go to bed soon and regain some coherency.

Plan9 · 07-10-2007, 10:02 AM

Its not so much that I want to hurt another person emotionally... its just that the paranoia and defense mechanisms rig themselves towards emotional distance, emotional unavailability, etc.

Its like giving up a religion after it fails you... and then wanting to believe again.

Sultana · 07-10-2007, 11:44 AM

I appreciate you posting that, Crompsin. It's very pertinent to my current stage of life. Thanks.

Daval · 07-10-2007, 12:06 PM

edited post to make more readable in other style formats...
-Daval

Plan9 · 07-10-2007, 03:55 PM

Daval,

Thanks, bro. I shoulda thought of that! Format power - GO!

Sultana,

You too? For how long? I've been like that for a year now. It doesn't seem to get better with time. Maybe experiences would change it, but there is always that "untouchable" feeling. Going to sleep at night with worries.

I'm not a bad person. I know I'm not a bad person. Echo the mantra.

I just feel like I can't trust anybody (in relationships) anymore.

And trust is the required protocol in the transfer of large emotional files.

MrFriendly · 07-10-2007, 06:52 PM

Dude, seriously, that was a good read. It sums up a lot of what I've always felt.

When I get hurt, or when something starts to get too hard emotionally with someone, my instinctive reaction is to build a big wall, block everyone out, and strike at them before they can do it to me.

Now, I say that's my instinctive reaction, it is certainly not how I react at all.

I have a long and sordid history with depression and anxiety. I've come to feel that when I want to act in such a selfish way, it's a by product of those issues.

The thing that overrides those feelings is that at the end of the day I just can't stand having unresolved issues with people I love. I have to get my concerns out there, I have to get it dealt with, if I don't, I stew about it and fall to pieces.

It's because I'm a paranoid and neurotic head case that I'll be very forward about my feelings. If I don't put these issues to bed, I loose my shit.

I've been through some tough things, and some really fucked up shit growing up. But to a point we all have. Some how I've come out of it all, and I've always tried to use those experiences to make me stronger and wiser, even though at the time I think my world is falling apart. In a way, I'm glad for all the hard times I've had to work through, because it's brought me to the point I'm at now, and it sure as hell makes you appreciate the good times.

I try to be an open book in relationships, even though sometimes I suppress feelings to begin with so I don't come across as a complete crazy person. I think that's why I'm always attracted to other head cases, I don't feel so bad for being a head case as well

I guess one of the things I've come to learn, is people might fuck you over, but it's not always as malicious as you think it is. We're human, we make mistakes, and at the end of the day, it's a fucking tough act to do what is best for you, and do whats best for everyone around you, invariably someone gets hurt.

I kind of liken relationships with my love of rock climbing. I fully accept that it is dangerous, and that I could get hurt. Sometimes it's just a little, sometimes it's a more serious injury. But because I loved climbing so much I kept doing despite the risks. It's just a part of the activity. Once you accept that you can just 'harden the fuck up' and get on with it :-)

Once again Crompsin, thank you for sharing that, at this point in my life it's given me something to really consider at the moment.

Cynthetiq · 07-10-2007, 07:11 PM

man i lived that for close to 10 years... I burned everything I could, tried to kill every brain cell to ease the pain. The wound never healed until almost 20 years later. All I had to do was forgive myself for allowing those things to happen and not stand up for myself. Forgive myself for perpetuating the situation in other relationships.

I had to just plain start over from scratch and let it be like nothing ever happened to me before and trust that I would be okay.

thanks for the read.

Hyacinthe · 07-11-2007, 12:10 AM

I didn't mean to imply that I thought you or anyone on these forums was the type of person I was talking about Crompsin, was more directed towards people I have known irl who have given up hope of being able to trust and have embraced not having to feel anymore. Sometimes I wish I could be untouchable the way you guys / girls describe I tend to react the opposite way, martyr complex ftl.

Instead of getting angry when someone treats me badly I tend to assume they're not doing it on purpose that they probably don't really understand that they hurt me. This tends to make me a magnet for people wanting to get over an ex who cheated or something and who are themselves hurting and more likely to loose their temper and hurt others (me).

For example I had an ex who took over $2000 of mine (I bought a new computer and since he worked for the company I gave it to him to pass along) and left the state a week before my birthday and didn't say a word to me - didn't tell me he wanted to end things, still called me by endearments when I phoned him on his mobile etc etc. He rang me up 3 weeks ago and asked me to forgive him, did so without a second thought. I'm not silly enough to get into a relationship with him again I mean yes I forgave him and I'm not mad at him but that doesn't mean he didn't hurt me.

Quote:

That feeling, that untouchable feeling. After you've been through a rough thing with someone else and somehow you managed to survive it and come out in one piece.

Sometimes I don't think I have managed that, to come through in one piece and be stronger for it. I think everytime I get hurt whether it be by a friend, a lover, anyone it breaks me a little inside. Instead of making me harder it makes me softer more sensitive to myself and everyone else I interact with. Rather then being able to shrug off someone elses feelings I feel even worse if I get an inkling I might have hurt them.

Guess I am still stuck in that second relationship stage, maybe even the first, trying desperately to make things work every single time. Everytime things go south even when i know it wasn't my fault I get hurt all over again just as badly as I was when my first relationship ended.

I could almost envy you all that untouchable feeling.

Plan9 · 07-11-2007, 10:28 AM

Meh.

I guess the point I had by posting this was that it says it better than I could.

I am alone and I am afraid and being scared of relationships is my Achilles' heel.

Nobody would envy being afraid of getting close to another person.

Invalid Comfort · 07-11-2007, 01:22 PM

Thank you for the quote Crompsin, it was a good read.

Another analogy might be the Emotional Hokey-pokey.

The hokey-pokey was because I worrying so much about "protecting my ego". I'm still learning, so bear with me.

When I worked on defining myself as "I am" instead of "self", the worries calmed down. Pain comes from trying to hold on to something that I have to let go. My emotional pain came from clinging to my idea of self. What is mine, what isn't. Emotions were also apart of those things that I have problems letting go of. Even though they are not physical , emotions are completely tangible. It confuses me, how do I feel something that's not there? Biologically, it all makes sense. How does something that doesn't exist cause pain?
Why do I feel pain even when I distance my(self) away from people?

I had to stop, asking questions, and trying to find an answer. It drove me batshit. Emotions are what they are. That's it. Move on to the next moment, observe, feel, but don't react. Enjoy every moment, we only have a set number.

I only have one game to play, Life. I try, unsuccessfully at times, to let those trivial and distracting games go. When I'm able too, life's got some pretty colors.

Pragma · 07-11-2007, 03:28 PM

Thanks for posting that. I seem to keep getting trapped in that situation of striking out at the other person, especially nowdays, right at the start of a relationship and blowing it up in my/their faces before it can get too far along to cause significant pain later. The worst part is that I know, at some level, that the women I meet now aren't the same as the ones in the past who have caused so much heartache - but I treat them the same.

Slowly trying to teach myself to just step back and relax - hopefully some day soon it'll work itself out.

07-10-2007, 10:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Its not so much that I want to hurt another person emotionally... its just that the paranoia and defense mechanisms rig themselves towards emotional distance, emotional unavailability, etc. Its like giving up a religion after it fails you... and then wanting to believe again. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

07-10-2007, 11:44 AM	#4 (permalink)
Sultana Falling Angel Location: L.A. L.A. land	I appreciate you posting that, Crompsin. It's very pertinent to my current stage of life. Thanks. __________________ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening My goal? To fulfill my potential.

07-10-2007, 12:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	edited post to make more readable in other style formats... -Daval __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

07-10-2007, 03:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Daval, Thanks, bro. I shoulda thought of that! Format power - GO! Sultana, You too? For how long? I've been like that for a year now. It doesn't seem to get better with time. Maybe experiences would change it, but there is always that "untouchable" feeling. Going to sleep at night with worries. I'm not a bad person. I know I'm not a bad person. Echo the mantra. I just feel like I can't trust anybody (in relationships) anymore. And trust is the required protocol in the transfer of large emotional files. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

07-10-2007, 06:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
MrFriendly Psycho Location: Australia	Dude, seriously, that was a good read. It sums up a lot of what I've always felt. When I get hurt, or when something starts to get too hard emotionally with someone, my instinctive reaction is to build a big wall, block everyone out, and strike at them before they can do it to me. Now, I say that's my instinctive reaction, it is certainly not how I react at all. I have a long and sordid history with depression and anxiety. I've come to feel that when I want to act in such a selfish way, it's a by product of those issues. The thing that overrides those feelings is that at the end of the day I just can't stand having unresolved issues with people I love. I have to get my concerns out there, I have to get it dealt with, if I don't, I stew about it and fall to pieces. It's because I'm a paranoid and neurotic head case that I'll be very forward about my feelings. If I don't put these issues to bed, I loose my shit. I've been through some tough things, and some really fucked up shit growing up. But to a point we all have. Some how I've come out of it all, and I've always tried to use those experiences to make me stronger and wiser, even though at the time I think my world is falling apart. In a way, I'm glad for all the hard times I've had to work through, because it's brought me to the point I'm at now, and it sure as hell makes you appreciate the good times. I try to be an open book in relationships, even though sometimes I suppress feelings to begin with so I don't come across as a complete crazy person. I think that's why I'm always attracted to other head cases, I don't feel so bad for being a head case as well I guess one of the things I've come to learn, is people might fuck you over, but it's not always as malicious as you think it is. We're human, we make mistakes, and at the end of the day, it's a fucking tough act to do what is best for you, and do whats best for everyone around you, invariably someone gets hurt. I kind of liken relationships with my love of rock climbing. I fully accept that it is dangerous, and that I could get hurt. Sometimes it's just a little, sometimes it's a more serious injury. But because I loved climbing so much I kept doing despite the risks. It's just a part of the activity. Once you accept that you can just 'harden the fuck up' and get on with it :-) Once again Crompsin, thank you for sharing that, at this point in my life it's given me something to really consider at the moment. __________________ You are not a slave

07-10-2007, 07:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	man i lived that for close to 10 years... I burned everything I could, tried to kill every brain cell to ease the pain. The wound never healed until almost 20 years later. All I had to do was forgive myself for allowing those things to happen and not stand up for myself. Forgive myself for perpetuating the situation in other relationships. I had to just plain start over from scratch and let it be like nothing ever happened to me before and trust that I would be okay. thanks for the read. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-11-2007, 10:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Meh. I guess the point I had by posting this was that it says it better than I could. I am alone and I am afraid and being scared of relationships is my Achilles' heel. Nobody would envy being afraid of getting close to another person. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

07-11-2007, 01:22 PM	#11 (permalink)
Invalid Comfort Upright	Thank you for the quote Crompsin, it was a good read. Another analogy might be the Emotional Hokey-pokey. The hokey-pokey was because I worrying so much about "protecting my ego". I'm still learning, so bear with me. When I worked on defining myself as "I am" instead of "self", the worries calmed down. Pain comes from trying to hold on to something that I have to let go. My emotional pain came from clinging to my idea of self. What is mine, what isn't. Emotions were also apart of those things that I have problems letting go of. Even though they are not physical , emotions are completely tangible. It confuses me, how do I feel something that's not there? Biologically, it all makes sense. How does something that doesn't exist cause pain? Why do I feel pain even when I distance my(self) away from people? I had to stop, asking questions, and trying to find an answer. It drove me batshit. Emotions are what they are. That's it. Move on to the next moment, observe, feel, but don't react. Enjoy every moment, we only have a set number. I only have one game to play, Life. I try, unsuccessfully at times, to let those trivial and distracting games go. When I'm able too, life's got some pretty colors.

07-11-2007, 03:28 PM	#12 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	Thanks for posting that. I seem to keep getting trapped in that situation of striking out at the other person, especially nowdays, right at the start of a relationship and blowing it up in my/their faces before it can get too far along to cause significant pain later. The worst part is that I know, at some level, that the women I meet now aren't the same as the ones in the past who have caused so much heartache - but I treat them the same. Slowly trying to teach myself to just step back and relax - hopefully some day soon it'll work itself out. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!