OH....

MY.......

GOD!!!....

I finally read this thread today, and I cannot BELIEVE that you think you are even REMOTELY in the right here! NO MAN has the right to TEST their mate or potential mate. If you don't trust them, or feel like there is a trust issure, you TALK TO THEM! You don't TEST them. That is the fastest way to end any chance of a potential relationship. You now mistrust her. PERIOD. Even though you were TOTALLY in the wrong here. And you're analogy that the end justifies the means is ATROCIOUS! So I have this big bomb, I can drop it on Iraq and kill almost every terrorist in the country...I might kill a few innocent civilians, but hey, the end justifies the means right? I mean get real here! Ya know, I can forgive a lady for an indescresion with someone online, even if the flirtation was leading to an encounter, you STILL have no way to know that she would actually go through with it. but YOU however created an entire entrapment issue with a fake "person" for her to talk to. YOU lied initially to try and see if she would "fail" your little test. I say shame on you, and SHE deserves better than YOU for a mate.

I will now step off my soapbox!

Nope, shouldn't coddle, molly or otherwise. It just seems a bit ironic or something...can't think of the word...that on the one hand, we're pulled to the side and told to curb the bluntness of honesty but on the other, calling someone an 'idiot' is ok.
I agree and saw no regret-just said there 'might be'-generalized.
And maybe that's what's been getting everyone in a tither-he's actually defending his trickery! I also am of the opinion that it was done with an underlying thought that this girl would be too stupid to realize the trick, which really bothers me, more than the action itself. It's just so disrespectful....and I'd rather give her the benefit of the doubt and say she saw right through it and played it back, in which case, it was he who failed his own 'test'.

I did a stupid thing kind of similar to this once. Our marriage counsellor asked us each to write her an email listing 5 things we liked and 5 things we didn't like about each other.

My husband wrote his first and took a long time doing it. I got more and more insecure and finally, after he went to bed, I logged onto his email and read it.

I had reasons (I wanted to be prepared for the discussion tomorrow, I thought we were going to be going over them anyway so it wasn't like I was reading a secret, I was scared I'd get really upset and cry, etc.) but they weren't good enough.

I felt bad about it right away, but I felt even worse when it turned out I'd been wrong--we didn't go over them in the next meeting. So I really HAD violated his privacy, even worse than I thought. And worse yet, I was upset about some of what I'd read, but I couldn't say anything about it because it was MY FAULT that I knew about it.

It was like a vile worm to keep it a secret. I knew I had to tell him eventually but I tried to put it off. Finally I couldn't bear it anymore, especially since I had a feeling he might already know (he's not stupid).

So when I told him I apologized thoroughly. He was gracious and we discussed some of the things I had read that I was upset about. He DID already know and I was SO GLAD I told him. That was a year ago and we have gotten married and are happy.

I posted this very personal story to give you an example of how a real relationship works when someone does something stupid. If I'd tried to keep the secret he could never have trusted me and I could never have felt secure with myself. Now I can work on re-earning the trust I violated and eventually put my trespass behind me.

By far the best post of the thread. I can't believe how just about everyone here jumped on the OP and neglected to include the fact that she was totally willing to cheat on him. Nice. The trolling and personal attacks were the icing on the cake.

I guarandamntee that they wouldn't give the same reply to Halx of any of the mods. I guess the rules are different when someone is brand new to the community. Way to welcome the new ones.

I love how y'all are defending a guy thats admitted he's "tested" every girl he's called "girlfriend"...yeah...thats attractive behavior in a man.....not

I don't think they're defending him....just defending how they're responding because the consensus appears to be the OP was wrong in what he did.
Personally, I have been on the receiving end of online trickery that was not a joke and I went off on the bastard. There's simply no excuse for it.

I didn't say I agree with the methods but you fail to see that she took the bait quite easily. The entrapment was wrong but it DID validate his concerns - he thought she might be a cheating whore and as it turns out, she's a cheating whore! Regardless, there is some information you just won't get from people without using sneaky methods. How often do people reveal information that will destroy their relationship if they don't have to?

Anyways you are missing the point. It isn't that you people thought he was wrong, it was HOW you went about saying he was wrong.

Thank you. Whats done is done and he did what he felt he needed to. I feel he has been hurt before and wants to make sure what he is getting into before he gives his heart. Ok, fine. If not, ok, fine. I have tested people I felt were dicking me over in the past. Not necessarily in this manner. If they passed they set my heart at ease and I told them congrats, I tested your trustworthiness, you passed! (Insert hug here.) If they failed? I walked away never to talk to them again. "Sage, I heard that you..." Yeah, I started that rumor. Funny huh!:devious:


There are plenty of times I feel strongly about a post and/or wish to call the poster everything but a child of god. Hello Mr. Back Button. Geez! Way to remember how everyone has had their not so stellar moments. Way to be cold to the fresh meat. Sometimes I am embarassed by the coldness here.:cold:

I, too, have been on the receiving end, and there is very little which makes me angrier than intentioned deceit like that.

But I don't think I would've felt the need to personally attack this poster and their intelligence to show them that it wasn't the best idea. It seems that everyone on this thread is upset because the OP didn't take their advice. That's ego, and the same posters on TFP who've taught me that ego gets you nowhere and you won't be able to convince people no matter how "right" you are are the same ones denigrating the OP.

Am I too late for further comment? I left the thread after it seemed like people were yelling. Was I yelling too? I am a newbie so it is harder to tell the atmosphere of the forums and any "unwritten rules" of appropriate behavior. Please tell me if anything I said could be improved in tone and manner.

The main thing that bothered me was that liamfoster did not offer all information at the beginning. I also sensed that he was avoiding questions. For example, he still did not answer my question about setting proper rules and guidelines at the beginning of a relationship. Maybe I am wrong. It is hard to determine online except for words. I still feel it is a misunderstanding that the girl had more lenient guidelines in her mind for the relationship than liamfoster. This was why I advised him to tell everything. Sorry if that was unclear.

But regardless, my advice is just my advice. This is the same for other people who replied to the thread. Of course I already established that I disagree with him just like many other people but we are not his dictators. And even if he does follow our advice, I do not expect him to follow word for word because, no matter how much detail given, there will always be a "maybe" that will force him to improvise. He may also explicitly reject our advice but still follow some of it. It doesn't matter.

Despite the fact that I disagree with him, I still trust him to be able to improvise in some way that he feels is best. If it works, that is good. If not, that is just another life lesson. I think the most important thing about this thread is that he will have a good result. This was what I wanted when I offered my advice. If it is wrong and liamfoster tells me the result that his method worked better, then he can have a happy ending and I can also learn.

well actually, didnt' feel like they were being egotistical, just very morally strong.

:orly:

I totally agree. Why is everyone being so damn judgemental?

twistedmosaic, thank you for sharing your story... i enjoyed reading it and I'm glad that you learned from your mistake.

Judging people by what they say/do/act/wear is not an epidemic. Its human nature.

I would like to quote from somewhere I dont remember but it should sum up alot "Some people will tell you lies so you can feel better about yourself, I will tell you the truth so you can better yourself" what alot of people are doing is telling him what he's doing is juvenile and its not how one should act in a relationship. Sure she took the bait and yes the majority of the comments where about his fualt but it have been said she's wrong too. I think what they are conveying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that just because she's rotten doesnt mean he have to be too, and that's the worst way to try and fine out. Also he's the one posting so they are just being truthful about his behavoir.

Its not a blame game. I'm sure if she post and ask if what she's doing is wrong since her preception on the guidlines of relationship was a little distorted,so she thought it was not wrong at the moment and what others are thinking like noodlebee's wonderment, everyone here would say she've done wrong, and focus on her behavoir as bad more then that of the guy.

ouch
 

that sucks man. you should break up. trust can't be replaced.

Oh wow, I can't believe I haven't seen this post until now. I guess I won't say much, even though we as members of TFP were asked for our opinions. I don't believe that anything said in here, from my viewpoint was out of line. I as many people here, would've responed with honesty and from the heart. I do this same to people who are in my life physically not just virtually. I think it would be very disrespectful to sugarcoat one's opinion just to "make nice" with the original poster just because he's new, or because it may not be what he or the other minority of folks who agree with him want to hear. I think when you are on a forum and ask for advice/opinions you should be prepared for responses, good and bad. So this guy's girlfriend potentially could have cheated. That sucks. Maybe she isn't trustworthy, maybe she's a bad girlfriend, maybe she's a horrible douchebag whore. Maybe not. The situation was a set up, so what can you take from it that is real? Nothing. I think setting someone up like that is extremely weird. I honestly believe in order be able to set one's SO (or actually SO's, since it's happened multiple times) requires a strange and sick thought process that I'm quite happily unable to indentify with (I find the thought process of getting to the point of setting up one's SO sick and strange, not the poster). Don't agree with what I just said? Good, different opinions is what makes life real and interesting. Let's not be affraid of keeping TFP honest for fear of being "mean". As I said, I think it would be completely disrespectful to the orginal poster to lie or sugar coat our responses just to be politically correct. Here's to honesty, in our forum AND in relationships.

I don't think there is much defending here for him

I prefer to think it's more trying to defend his right to not be trolled and called childish names by a bunch of idiots.


(I'm not sure who is allowed to call people idiots and who isn't, so I just assume I am allowed to do it when I see people acting in a way I perceive to be idiotic)

Yeah I don't believe I have trolled or called anyone any childish names.

What I don't understand is how if someone else finds something someone said to be for example moronic and says so, it's not okay. But when you find something someone has said to be idiotic it is okay for you to say so? What is the difference? Why is it any different for you to call someone idiotic or someone else to call the orginal poster moronic? Please do explain as I seem to be missing out on when it is okay for someone to say so and why it is okay for only certain people to do so (yourself)?? Not being sarcastic, just trying to understand how you've arrived at your conclusion that the people who said something negative about the original poster were wrong for doing so, but it's not wrong for you to call the people calling the poster idiotic. Thanks!

You need to learn the difference between defining an action and insulting a user. I told the OP to quit "playing idiot games" with his SO. I did not call him an idiot.

You on the other hand, despite admitting that you're referring to our actions ("acting in a way I perceive to be idiotic"), choose to hurl insults by actually calling us idiots.

Now, personally, I don't really care what you call me. I find it difficult to get upset over what some guy on the internet that I don't know and will never meet decides to call me. However, I would point out that you, in calling us idiots, are in violation of the TOS while the rest of us, in pointing out idiotic behavior, are not. With, of course, the exception of King who, frankly, being a mod, should follow the rules better and attack the behavior, not the person.

you just proved my point. It was sarcasm and meant to convey that it would be a double standard. There is no shade of grey when you are straight up saying "You are an idiot" There is no interpretation in the meaning of those words though you can attempt to justify it all you want.

Me calling anyone here an idiot is just as wrong as anyone calling him an idiot, maybe you two didn't do it, but he was in fact called an idiot, and stupid, and pathetic.

errr fuck...

I didn't finish the whole thread and I just noticed the mod post.

My apologies.

Let me put it this way: You get out of a relationship what you put into it. If you put energy into pushing someone's boundaries rather than setting boundaries, all you will discover is the flaws in human nature. You'll only find out what kind of SO that person might be if presented with a certain set of circumstances. If you're honest and upfront with someone, you'll tend to get honesty back. If you communicate openly, you'll tend to get that in return.

"Gotcha" games are largely pointless, especially when the only questionable things they've done arrive as a direct result of your own actions. It is also unreasonable to expect cemented loyalty... ever. The mating game just doesn't make a lot of room for monogamy, particularly when you're in a long-distance situation and only a few months into the relationship.

I got nuked by infidelity a few years back, and I'm here to tell you that flirting with a stranger and exchanging phone numbers and even photos is small fucking potatoes. Going out for coffee is inconsequential. All she did wrong was to pretend like it wasn't happening when confronted with a loaded question.

You didn't want the truth. You wanted to catch her in a lie. So you phrased the question so that she couldn't answer truthfully without feeling like a piece of shit. And as you've discovered, most people would rather lie than feel like a piece of shit.

Johnny Rotten - thanks, probably the best comment so far. nothing to say... i agree

I'm going to agree with much everyone has said. There was already a problem with this relationship if you didn't trust her enough to believe her in the first place. YOU made the mistake. Relationships are built on trust, and you didn't buy in.

I'm going to disagree with the majority of people here.

Yes, you should have talked to her about your insecurities instead of being manipulative. But I think she was equally as wrong if not more so by her actions towards another (fake) guy.

The majority of people think that she was set up and that naturally she would be inclined to flirt. But based on what the OP said, the conversation went beyond flirting and into sexual innuendos and even an arranged meetup.

That to me is definitely a sign of cheating, or a strong inclination towards cheating. I don't know why everyone argues that that sort of action is okay, it's not. I don't know what type of girls everyone dates, but I would never date a girl who had sexual conversations with strangers online. Maybe I'm more conservative, but either way, that kind of girl is not good news.

To sum it up, there were better ways to deal with your insecurities such as communicating to her and talking about certain issues, boundaries, and situations. However, I believe she was equally at fault for actually taking the bait. I don't care how tempting things may be, I would never seriously date a girl who so easily flirted with someone else, just not my thing.

liam: quick question, when you say y'all are in a relationship, and have been for the past 6 months...what does that mean, precisely? what understandings do y'all have in place for the relationship structure?

edited for unnecessary meanness...

What I meant to say was this:

OP, you don't seem keen on continuing the relationship with her. You keep saying she is a cheater, ends justify the means, etc. What is it that is making you hesitate about breaking up with her?

Also, there is no guarantee that she ever intended to meet up with the fake you, have sex with fake you, or anything. More than likely, she is just having fun, seeing how far she can take it. I have done it in chat once before, mainly because it was an unsolicited message. I suggest you ask her about it if you aren't sure about breaking up.

I can't believe I made it thru the whole first page of posts without finding anyone even remotely suggesting that this girl is not entirely blameless, either.

Maybe it's wrong to "purposefully leave a wallet on the sidewalk," but it's even worse to steal it.

This girl was setting up a date with someone she met online - the fact that she was set-up by her insecure boyfriend doesn't lessen her role in this; it just makes them both wrong.

"Entrapment" is only used as a defense by the guilty.

And I don't think "communication" is the be-all, end-all to relationships, either. If she is dishonest enough to cheat on him, she'd just lie about it, anyway. Who here has had an honest cheating partner? :

"Sweetie, would you ever cheat on me?"
"Not unless someone better comes along - or I'm bored or something - or they're really good-looking."
"Thanks - I'm glad we had this talk. I feel so much better"
:rolleyes:

yourname, you should totally check out post 29, because it is, like, totally rad.

and stuff.

I may love your piggy style, but I don't trust you. No one does.

This thread is pretty cool :D. Seems the OP had a little rough time but some of you guys are so civil even when trying to be uncivil..or something. Anyway I sorta understand the OP, I was in a similar situation before, but it was the girl doing it to me. She tried to set me up, and I worked out it was her from just a weird feeling about it all. She got her one of her friends to phone me to make it seem real even. I'm the kind of guy who would flirt with other girls even if I'm in a relationship but nothing serious, I'm pretty dedicated now after some messed up experiences in the past. Anyway I confronted her about it and ofcourse at first she completely denied it, but after a few minutes of me staring her down, she buckled and said she didn't trust me because of how previous boyfriends had cheated on her. Info: our relationship was going about 3 months, with me travelling about for my job for some of it. I understood her, because I know trust comes with time, our relationship wasn't super serious at that point so it wasn't a big deal to me. I'm used to people lieing and being deceitful, its human nature. Like everyone knows, no one is perfect. My advice from this situation is to meet her as the fake guy, then apologize and well if you love her, say whatever from your heart. No idea what happens here but it'd be interesting :D? Maybe my advice is bad... but whatever, seems theres a problem here you can't really ignore, so a confrontation has to happen at some time.

(PS. I'm new here too! Bit frightened on how you guys would view some of the messed up things I've done, and that have happened to me in my relationships, never really told anyone, but looking forward to it :D)

pig, we have a relationship, like soulmates, individuals who are intimately drawn to one another through a favorable meeting of the minds and who find mutual acceptance and understanding with one another. We may feel ourselves bonded together for a lifetime; and, hence, also sexual partners.

The reason why I didnt break up with her is that I am not Mr. loyal guy either, I mean, i casually talk and flirt to girls when I'm out, nothing serious though.
What left me really skeptic about her is that she planned a whole flirt indeed, rich of details, from the first eyesight, first touches and finally great sex.
Guys, keep in mind thatthat:
1) she was the one who asked first for my (fake) mobile number in chat
2) she was the one who started the sexual innuendos
3) the day after the chat she told me she sent me an sms and I (fake) didn't reply (that was because the number was invented)


Updates: still havent told her anything, she is supposed to move in with me the next month and we'll see how we'll feel being with one another in an everyday life basis situation.

i'll keep u guys posted!

so you flirt with women but get upset when your girlfriend flirts with men? This story just keeps getting better.

ehehe shakran, first of all, yes I do flirt, just casual flirt chat and she does the same, we both know it, no scandals.
Another thing though, is to go to an hotel room to have sex :)

and anyways, women and men are way different under this point of view... statistically, who would have more success/results, who would have to struggle less.... a flirty man or a flirty woman?

come on! :)

So true, so true.

so she actually WENT to a hotel room? or FLIRTED about going to a hotel room.

she flirted about going to a hotel room with the following evidences:
1) she was the one who asked first for my (fake) mobile
2) she was the one who mentioned sex the first time in chat

I nearly walked away from a relationship when I found out I had "passed" her test. She concocted an elaborate story and was cold and distant for a whole week then got her best friend to make advances on me. I was shocked she could be so immature, and while we worked it out, she did not learn from any of it and I ended up breaking it off after more of her game playing.

I should have just walked away completely after the first time, and I will do so in the future. Tests are for high school, not a mature relationship.

So what you're saying is, because you have trouble getting women, it's OK for you to try as much as you want, but because she's attractive, she can't do the same?

I think you need to take a step back and take a long, hard look at your maturity level, because right now it's hovering somewhere between 7th and 9th grade.

shakran, easy with judgements :) don't be silly.
I am an average looking man ,who is cocky, direct, challenging, confident, funny, and in control, hence I dont have problems in getting girls. this is not the point. Please read more carefully.

By stating that women, even the non pretty ones, are approached all the time, it doesn't mean that I have troubles getting women! :) silly.

I stated a fact: women are approached all the time, men are not.
Deduction: a flirty woman amplifies the outcome, compared to a flirty man.

hahaha, wow, I cannot BELIEVE the number of posts saying "omg you suck for doing that to her"

Now, maybe your "faith" is good enough for your deity of choice, but humans are an untrustworthy lot, you can't even trust yourself to do the right thing (oh its ok, you can eat that twinkie) everyone has flaws, now, it just so happens that faith and trust are EARNED in my opinion.

Now if you suspected that she was a little too easy to fall into your lap in some internet relationship and its too good to be true, then it probably is. Thats what these "tests" are for. She failed miserably, yet he's the bad guy? whatever.

if anything i'd want my girl to be able to take a little fire from some hornball and show that she's got some fucking integrity before wasting any more of my time with her. My mortality is limited, and my standards are high. I would have dumped her right then and there.

Granted, I don't really do the online relationship thing, I tried it once, it sucks, I'll never do it again, but had I done something like that to her before I dumped her anyway, I can certainly say I wouldn't have felt like a bad guy unless she proved that she really was there for me.

anyways, I didn't read every post in this thread because it seemed too much like there was a bunch of hiveminds jumping on him for setting her up, I just had to skip to the end to throw in a defense.

edit: i went back and read it all, my post still stands, god TFP, you disappoint me.

I guess if all you care about in the span of your mortality is remaining ignorant to the truth at the expense of feeling fuzzy and warm at night about "trust" until the truth actually smacks you upside the head so hard that your insides leak out of your ear, then sure. You all have the right idea.

Jesus christ, I'd GTFO right then and there. That's twisted. Okay, maybe getting your best friend to make advances, but to DELIBERATELY be cold and distant?

FUCK
THAT
SHIT

I'm laughing so hard right now.


"maybe getting your best friend to make advances"

hahahaha

oh lord, thats great.

thats sticky.

It seems like you two are pretty young. I don't know how you "know" that you are soul mates after only six months of dating, and part, or all, of that has been long distance. Young people often mistake great sex for being soulmates.

Also, call me a cynic, but long distance relationships don't work. Why? Because insecurities get magnified and make you do stupid things like set traps for your partner. Haven't you ever watched "The Real World"? I laugh my ass off every season when a cast member thinks that their long distance relationship will survive. It's the same thing every time. One person gets insecure, the other says, "You don't trust me." The person who isn't trusted then asks themselves, "Why am I passing up all of these great opportunities for someone who doesn't trust me?" and breaks off the relationship.

So, it boils down to two things. Either you already suspected that she wasn't trustworthy and were looking for confirmation, or you are too insecure about yourself to be able to handle a relationship. It could be a combination of the two. You really should look at your insecurities though. You will NEVER have a good relationship as long as you aren't capable of trusting anyone. Quit testing your girlfriends! People lie, you can't change that.

You should also learn that infatuation does not make you soul mates. I doubt you know all of the bad things about her. That is why it is called dating. You have to REALLY know someone before you can determine whether or not they are your soulmate. Odds are that she isn't and never will be. You can go ahead and move in together but my advice is to break it off and work on yourself before moving in with anyone. You don't trust women, period. If you are going into each relationship with the pressure of making this the one you will spend your entire life with, you will be continually frustrated. If you are meant to be together for life, it will happen all on it's own. You can't force someone to be your soulmate.

I cannot BELIEVE you actually believe that!

Entrapment is entrapment. You cannot sit there and entice someone DELIBERATELY and then fault them for their errors. I am not saying she is justified in what she did, of course not. but to sit there and imply that entrapment is a GOOD thing is rediculous.

You know I sit here re-reading the posts, and I would be laughing my A$$ off if we find out later that she actually KNEW he was behind it all, and is setting HIM up! or seeing if HE is going to be honest and come out with the truth.

don't be too surprised if you're right Deltona. It's pretty hard to disguise typing styles and speed over IM. She probably caught on to him in the first 5 minutes.

yeah now that we point that out, his typing is pretty noticable.

Isn't this so true? my girl-friend insists that all men are whores and that, given a prospect that meets his basic standards, it takes almost next to nothing to sleep with a man..

A flirty woman surely gets alot farther than an equally attractive flirty man..

Well said, on both accounts.

Entrapment is nonsense. Someone puts a car somewhere in a high-theft area, and then it's a special car which the following police can shut off the engine, is that entrapment?

Police set up a high-profile house of prostitution. Everyone who goes in is arrested. Is that entrapment?

How about you leave your bedroom window wide open, for anyone to crawl into, is that entrapment?

Entrapment is a bullshit term for "got caught choosing to participate in criminal activity", and nothing else.

QFT

ahhaahha no guys, she hasnt caught me at all and she wont ;)

following other chats she decided to blacklist the fake me and the topic is 6 feet under. ( i had to push it in order to be blacklisted though...)

of course it wasnt one of her best performances but it has helped me to understand her better, that she tends to be a cheater and eventually i'll feel less guilty if i'll ever have an affair ;)

Shauk - just out of curiosity, how come u find my typing pretty noticable?

Oh good, I was getting worried... for a minute there it almost seemed like you might walk away from this thread having learned something. Thank God, that's not the case.

Really though...

How can you not find any of what you've done to be extremely dishonest and shady, regardless of what you "caught" her doing?

Please don't ever have kids with eachother. :shakehead:

Are you fucking kidding me?

It absolutely blows my mind at how easy it is for some people to push aside their morals and find ways to justify their atrocious behavior.

:cue John Lennon's Whatever Gets You Through The Night:

You don't see your part in all this, it means the lesson will be presented to you again over and over until you learn it.

We may as well close this thread gang. There is no help for this guy. He's determined to act like a damn fool, and won't settle for anything more. I don't even know why he bothered to post it. He obviously wasn't open to changing his attitude about anything. And now that we know he's just looking for an excuse to cheat on his girlfriend, the original question is shown to be bullshit in the first place.

First of all, I never said it was good. What I said was they're both wrong.

Secondly, what I meant by "Entrapment" is only used as a defense by the guilty" is this - If you behave conscientiously and don't fall into the trap in the first place, you won't be crying, "Entrapment!"

To paraphrase, the only people who use "entrapment" as a defense are people who got caught doing something they shouldn't have been doing.

hrm, given the recent addition to the post, i'm inclined to agree.


tests are only authentic if there isn't an ulterior motive behind it.

what we have here is a case of double fault. Neither party is in the right.

guys, for those who followed my story and gave me some opinions, there are some updates from my side.

I realized I made a mistake in testing her, for the following reasons:
by realizing that she could be a cheater I became more needy and insecure, I started to doubt about everything she told me and she definitely felt this defensive/needy attitude of mine, which made me less attractive to her.

What kills a woman's attraction towards a man is when she detects his insecurity, needy.

I would have never acted this way if I didnt know this potential attitude of her.
Maybe she would have cheated on me, maybe not, but for sure she'd have never told me that cause she cares about me, and I'd have kept my usual brilliant/cocky/calm profile which she really loves.

Now I've finally turned the situation 'i think' back to normal, by being agan mr cocky/funny/self confident and she seems fine again as well, even if we reached a point of extreme tension in which we were about to break up because of my insecurity.

What did I learn:
Do not test a woman.
But above all, never ever create dramas with a woman, never have emotional response to things, they kill the attraction. On the contrary, keep always the cocky and funny profile, and if she really wants to talk down or create dramas... here it comes the biggest challenge.... I have to be able to switch her pattern, say or do something crazy, stupid, which will flip the situation and eventually she will forget about the drama and not be able to go back into it.
Because it happened exactly like that!

But you don't think you shouldnt test a woman because its just flat out WRONG?

Dont have emotional responses to things? what kind of crap is that? Keep cocky profile? Well I guess some women might want that 24/7 but I know I wouldnt, I like a man that "has emotional responses" to "life"

Quite frankly at this point I have my doubts as to whether he meets the age requirements here.

lol,

i raise issues when i think there is an important reason for one. i dont care if i get emotional, needy, or possessive.. i mean i know its bad but i do what i feel like is needed for the relationship.

it just means i don't have to be a fake person constantly strategizing on what to say and how to act. i just do it.

i think that is real 'cockniess'. :D

wow... that set back the "emotional sensitive man" back like 3 decades...

emotions aren't bad, what is bad is how one reacts to and deals with the emotions. also, if you think that you can "flip" the situation so that she can forget about the drama, you've got another thing coming, she'll just say you aren't listening nor are you paying attention to her need to just speak without need to fix it.

guys i'm not talking about a 5-10 years stable relationship here, i'm talking about the very first months, when both parties are getting to know one another.
What I said about men it is as well valid for women, i'd see how any average guy would react if at the beginning of a relationship the girl would get at once needy, obsessed and predictable..... i'd say he wouldnt find her attractive any more.

If you start a relationship and u realize that u r really into her/him, then it's better to back up - is this a strategy? whatever ;)
Someone can be totally himself/herself only if he/she doesnt care that much about the other person. Hence, no strategies are needed, if you loose her/him, who cares!

Again, a strategy doesn't mean to manipulate or to lie... it just means to act less predictable, to adapt yourself if you realize that what you are doing is not working and that you care about that relationship enough.

Then once the relationship is stable, no need of strategies. There will be trust, and consistent love. But the very beginning is different.

Those who are not attractive and never had great success of course blame strategies cause they r desperate ;)

what....the....fuck?

Oh I see.. so be fake and play games in the beginning of the relationship so that time will pass.

strategy is implying manipulate. why not just be yourself and deal with reality as reality happens?

Yes, and in getting to know you, assuming she has half a brain, she now thinks you're an obnoxious jerk. And so far you haven't given her any evidence to the contrary.

I'm starting to think that, rather than being as gloriously stupid as you seem to be trying to convince us you are, you're simply trolling to get a reaction. As such, I'm done.

liam, I think you might fit in better over at pick-up-artist-forum.com or fastseduction.com... I'm sure those guys would love to hear about your cocky/funny theories and experiences.

some of their stories are cool but man have u seen some of their "pick-up videos" on youtube? absolutely ridiculously retarded! any girl who is worth it would NOT fall for that..

which makes me scared cuz alot of girls fall for it. lol

No, I can't say I've watched any of their videos... but I agree with you that it's retarded. It's crazy enough that stuff works at all, let alone enough for people to make a living teaching it.

guys, do not take things personal ok?
Cockiness attracts women, self confidence attracts women, neediness scares them away. period.

when you speak for "women" in such an utterly absurd way IM going to take it personally. I dont know what planet you've gotten your "relationship" education on but you need to ask for your money back

and you're proving your self confident by creating a fake profile and pretending to be somebody else to entrap your girlfriend?

no, thats the cockiness part that he's been been mislead to believe attracts women

all those attract different kinds of women. you get to decide what kind you want to attract. duping women via a strategy sounds more like you've got other issues...

why not just be yourself and let that be the attraction.

For one time, I actually agree with liamfoster, even if it is only partial. He is correct that there is at least some strategy in interaction. This is not just for relationships with significant others. It is also for your friends and family. The only reason it doesn't feel like "strategy" is because we are used to it so long that it turns into a natural habit.

When you first go date someone, you are more likely to dress nicely and be presentable. As time passes and the person knows and loves you more, you can relax yourself and go meet him/her even when you wear pyjamas.

And it is hard to say "be yourself". Some of you may treat different people in a different way. For example, I need to treat my family elders respectfully and I don't tell them things that might be taboo for them. But I can tell very personal things to my close friends and boyfriend. I talk to my co-workers in a respectful and friendly manner but more relaxed than with my family. All of that is part of myself but not the full "be yourself".

The reason why I say only partial agreement is because of what he said about the details of that strategy i.e. cockiness. The neediness issue, I also agree with him, is bad for attraction. To attract a person who is mature and will not flirt to the extent of the girl liamfoster talked about, self confidence and humour are good things to have. But if it goes to the extent of cockiness, that person might think it is for hiding insecurity, which is as bad as neediness.

thanks noodlebee and thanks to all of you.
I am actually learning some real life lessons here. I did learn i made a mistake on testing my girl, and I appreciate your advices on the matter.
On the other end, I realized we both have commitment problems, because we have always choosen unavailable partners in our pasts, in terms of distance, and we both got scared when the other one was getting too serious.

The ironic issue here is that after faking that online flirt with her, I realized what was she capable of doing, and considering that I love her,I started to become more needy, as I said, and become a chaser.
My chaser status might have been quite an unattractive feature for her because she started to back off.

Now I am braking patterns all the time when it's needed, and it works! it bloody works! If she comes to me with a negative attitude and wants to turn me down, I tell her something totally absurd and lovely, she cracks up, and she's not able to go back into her negative pattern no more.

These are the strategies I'm talking about, at the end it's a way to understand what's going on, what do to in order to create some more spice, positive tension and keep the relationship alive, if you really want it.

Cynthetiq - why not being ourselves from the beginning? Who are ourselves, when is it that we are really ourselves, isn't it that we all act differently with different people? There's a book called '1, nobody, 100000' and it talks about how different we are when we deal with different people and how those people see us with different lights. It's all very interesting.
Being ourself is a generalization, if you go to a job interview and you really want that job, then there is a level of adaptation of yours. You are still yourself but... you use a strategy.
If you couldn't care the less about that job, then what the heck... no strategy is needed, if I loose it, who cares? ;)

I repeat, strategies are just for the starting part of a relationship, to prevent a premature end of a relationship for illogical reasons.

This topic is hilarious, poor guy.

I agree that first impressions are an important part of any relationship, but that is FIRST impression, not continued masking as to what you truly are. It's your life. It's your household you live in it as you see fit.

I cannot understand some of the friends that I have that are DIFFERENT people when they are with this girlfriend/wife/SO because they are acting in a way that is acceptable or presented to the other person. If you can't be yourself in your own house where can you be?

That said, one doesn't plan on a relationship lasting 5-10 years, it just happens one day at a time. Suddenly you look down and you find out you've hit another anniversary. Again, being yourself is the key to long lasting deep relationships, being fake is the key to short superficial short ones.

Does the one day by one day thing apply even when the girls say stuff like "I love you forever" and "I never want to leave you" and yada yada?

Yes, because one cannot account for illness, death, trauma, drama, etc. that life throws in. Those are words for today. I see that as why it is important to understand even in marriage since people get divorced.

What, you think guys don't say this stuff? Cruise your local high school hallways and see which gender is saying this more often. How old are the women you are hearing this from, btw? :orly:

And yeah, the day-by-day stuff is the ONLY way, if you ask me. Cyn is right on the money. Here I am, after 3+ years with the same person, and I still have to remind myself that yeah, we did get married, and yeah, we did move to a foreign country together... jeez, when did that all happen?? :) It all goes by in a blur, if you're with the right person at the right time. One day at a time.

You are implying only immature ppl say this? Why can't mature ppl say it (wiht some understanding that it is for the present...)

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So you both are saying that the immature girls/guys who say this are so lovestruck that they really believe it, while the mature girls/guys who say this know whats going on but say it anyways? I think I am overanalyzing it.. should it just be translated to "I LOVE YOU ALOT ALOT ALOT +++ "

Yes, translated to something like that.

I guess. I don't know. I don't say to my wife of 5 years,"I love you forever" or "I never want to leave you." I know it is how I feel at this moment and I cannot imagine that feeling changing at all, but I understand that it can.

From time to time I do say things like, "You know I really love you." just out of the blue for no reason after I've just found myself thinking about how much I enjoy her company or looking back at how much we've been through good and bad. I believe that is where the romance is, not in the candle light dinners, giving of flowers that is truly romantic. It is those things we are conditioned by books, music, film to believe are the romantic moments. I find it is in the silent moments of simple things like riding commuting together, microwaving popcorn and watching a favorite show or movie. It is remembering the smallest detail like a favorite she mentioned in passing that you can accommodate in some way. Romantic is what you make it.

Watching some of these senior high school kids get on bended knee to ask someone to the prom seems retarded to me. It again in my opinion how we're molded via media to "top" another person's method. Thinking towards the future, if they don't do something like this to propose, then what?

How realistic is it to say,"I'll never love another..." and then that person dies? You've left yourself no ability to love anyone again. It's not like I'm suggesting leaving an "out" clause to leave the relationship, but in essence I am for the sake of giving yourself the permission to move on from situations.

Yeah, this is turning into a threadjack, but basically what I meant is that I remember hearing that kind of stuff maybe 10 years ago... like with my first boyfriend, in high school. Guess how long that relationship lasted? About two months. :lol: And honestly, really haven't heard/used it since.

I just don't see a need to use that kind of hyperbole in a stable, day-to-day relationship. Saying "I love you," sure, that's important. But exaggerating it into some overly romantic/dramatic thing that will last "forever an' ever an' ever, my widdle hoochykins..." Yeah, that's too much. I'm with Cyn (again) here, with the very subtle, small "romantic" things, that are often totally non-verbal... but communicate so much intimacy and honest love. That kind of stuff, on a day-to-day basis, is what keeps it going for years, decades...

Even the wedding vows between me and my husband didn't involve any usage of "forever" or "never." We promised to honor each other each day, for all the days that we are together... and hell, we do both hope that we'll be together for the rest of (one of) our lives. But why vow something that is pretty much impossible? People change, or people die. One or the other inevitably happens, in any relationship. Everyone has to deal with those consequences. There is no forever, for anyone or any couple.

Dude, how old are you? I'm just curious now, I don't recall reading it before. I am always curious about where age factors into things or if it does at all. This has been one of the most amusing/frustrating threads I have ever read. It's always enlightening to know just what kind of people are roaming around out there that you wouldn't be exposed to in your own life.

this thread is highly entertaining. i think liam should do a search for "plan9" - i think he will find much of the advice given there to be agreeable with his worldview on relationships.