shoe

Sorry for the profanities. I'm angry.

I broke up with my girlfriend of 2 years last summer because she had gotten involved with another guy. After some months apart and a lengthy thought process on my part we got back together and both agreed she would never see the guy again.

I get a call tonight. One of her good guy friends who's in the military (ray),and whom i trust, is home for the weekend and is hosting a small party at his house. This guy happens to be the friend of the fucker who tried to shatter my relationship last summer. She tells me she is going to hang out at this party and does'nt tell me fucker will be there. She calls me back about 1 hour later and i ask her if he is going to be there. She acknowledges.

Now i am severely fucking pissed. She was going to hide the fact he was going to be there and tell me how it went AFTER. We had both agreed upon getting back together that she was never to see this fucker again. We had lenghty discussions about it and if i was going to be able to take her back she needed to agree with me. That was my term. I do not want her anywhere near the guy. I told her i did not want her to go and she said she will abide by my decision. I know i dont have a right to control her but , fuck, we had both agreed that she was not to see him again , group or no group. Why is she springing this on me now ? Both her and Ray have told me that i can come to this party. I work until 1am, and, let's face it, i cant stand this guy. Honestly, i would probably just stick a fist to his face, creating drama and ruining everything. And i assure you, i am not a violent guy. I've told myself countless times; i am not letting last summer repeat itself.

Am i right to be angry?

Willravel

An unfortunate reality is that she broke your trust in her, and that type of thing is difficult to earn back. Obviously you don't trust 'fucker', and you're right for that. Do you trust your once and current girlfriend? Do you believe that 'fucker' can tempt her and she will allow herself to be tempted?

I'm sorry for the horrible situation you've been put in. We're all here for you.

RedSabre

I was going to respond first but I'm still new to posting around here. I agree with Will. I was going to say I am assuming there will be other people there. She may not intend to see 'fucker' at all and 'fucker' may just happen to be there.

She may not have told you because she did not want you to worry about it (not saying it makes her right). If you think she is going to the party to see 'fucker', then you have a right to be angry.

Will asks the right questions, it comes down to trust in the end...

shakran

She knows he'll be there. She knows Shoe doesn't want her "anywhere near the guy." So what this boils down to is that she's willing to risk her relationship with Shoe in order to go to this party. Now, whether that means she intends to cheat with this guy again, or just that she doesn't want to miss the party, I don't know. But frankly it doesn't matter. Shoe, the ugly truth is that she tried to hide something from you again. This is obviously a pattern of behavior at this point - especially since imo you went WAY above and beyond the call and gave her another chance (personally that's my one hard and fast rule - -- or at least it was when i was still in the dating scene - - - You cheat, you're gone, end of story). You need to decide if this is a pattern of behavior that you are willing to accept in order to be with this girl.



He has a right to be angry period, and I think Will missed the point here - - trust isn't an issue. Of course he doesn't trust her. She was trying to pull a fast one again. Nobody trusts the bank robber who's in the act of robbing the bank, not to rob the bank. By the same token, you don't trust someone who's in the act of breaking the get-back-together deal not to break the terms of the get-back-together deal.

bluestars87

Wait, how do you know that she didn't find out that he was going to be there until shortly before she called you back? How do you know that she knew before?

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Willravel

There's a name for someone who's with someone they don't trust, and I was hoping that wasn't the case with shoe. I think I got the point, but I think that you may be missing another point. It's not just trust between shoe and shoe's gf. It's shoe and this 'fucker' character, too. For example: I trust my wife completely, but I don't trust other men not to flirt with her. If you think about it from that perspective, it's not just trust in the gf. If shoe's rival, 'fucker', decides to put his moves on shoe's gf, then we'd have a problem whether she relented or not.

Personally, I don't take people back after cheating. I know it's a personality trait not easily removed. shoe is not Willravel or shakran, though. He obviously went through a lot during the reconciliation process.

ItWasMe

She called you back an hour later. Was she going to hide this info from you, or was she calling to tell you? I feel for you, having things dropped into your lap.

I no longer take back cheaters, either. It's never worked out for me in the long run, learning to trust the person again. But that doesn't mean it can't be done.

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dirtyrascal7

In situations like this, it is easy to look at things from shoe's perspective, which is why I like to try and see things from the other party's perspective... in this case, shoe's g/f.

I don't know the circumstances of your breakup or your un-breakup with her, but more importantly in this case, I don't know the circumstances of your g/f's breakup with fucker. To me, that is a key point because it could help provide insight into her thinking and her intentions. Did she break it off with him to come back to you? Or did it fall apart and she came back to you after the fact? And if so, why did it fall apart?

What we do know is that you and her agreed that she would cut all ties with him. On one level, that was the obvious and smart thing to do... however, on another I believe these absolute restrictions are a bad thing because they create the "forbidden fruit" syndrome. As we all know, this is a very powerful desire... one that tempts us into doing illogical things simply out of curiousity.

Your g/f probably still has one of those pesky "what if?"-scenarios going through her head... and she's been unable to explore that thanks to your little agreement. I think that, if you truly want to be with her long-term, you need to release her from this control and let things play out naturally. It will most certainly be difficult for you throughout this process, but I believe it's the only way can ever fully trust her again.

If she really wants you, she will be true to you and earn back your trust... but if she is seduced by fucker once again, then at least you will know her true nature and can leave before it's too late.

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pig

hmmm shoe, i see it like this, having been in situations like this before:

first, if your gut is telling you that something is odd, don't discount that. i've found my gut is usually a pretty good compass. from your OP it's not clear that she knew he'd be there at the first call, so the first thing you need to do is simply talk with your girl about when she knew the details of the situation. i know it's hard, but don't 'act' angry or accuse her of things. frequently, this will tend to lead her to the defensive, and you may not get the truth out of it for a long while. people do things when they feel they are under attack.

2. it is possible that your girl would have / did / intended to just shut the fucker down at the party, and end the bullshit melodrama that may have been latent there.

in the end i agree with rascal: ultimatums tend to fuck things up...it creates stress where there shouldn't be any. you pretty much have to decide if you're going to trust her or not, and if you are you've got to just let that be. it might backfire in your face, but the alternative will to.

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ShaniFaye

wait...you mean to say you're telling her she cant associate with a whole crowd of people that are her friends because there is one person there you dont like? Its not like she is socializing with the guy one on one....in effect your telling her that she has to start checking guest lists before she can socialize...and to me that sucks and is extremely immature

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Estevez

First off, I have been in the exact same situation as shoe word for word. She would be out with friends and I would ask her about who she was with. I would have to ask her twice before she would admit that fucker was there. ShaniFaye's argument is exactly what my ex told me when I gave her an ultimatum. And yes, it is immature but I was a very immature person at the time, so forgive me. She refused to give up her friends for me. Long story short, we broke up because I eventually found out that she WAS cheating on me with that fucker. Damn thing is...I don't know whether I drove her to cheat on me by constantly worrying about it, or whether she already was.

Anyways I've adopted a creed of no second chances, but that doesn't help out Shoe very much. I'd say give her the benefit of the doubt. If she does end up cheating, at least in the break-up, you will be the good guy and not the asshole that drove her into the arms of another man.

seretogis

If you're asking her "who she was with" you don't trust her in the first place, and the relationship is already doomed to failure. A mutual loving relationship has no room for second-guessing and suspicion. End it now and try to find something you can genuinely put some effort into, imo.

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fightnight

I'm with dirtyrascal... I think that before you just jump to conclusions you need to know the facts of her situation, did she know he was going to be there? If she did know, what are the odds she was just going for her friends, would totally ignore this guy, and didn't want you to worry? If she'd been honest and said he was going to be there, would you have flipped out or let her go and thank her for her honesty? I'm sure all this stuff came into her mind. Dirty is also right about needing more info as to their breakup for us to be able to properly help.

shakran

My wife is quite attractive and, especially before she had the ring, people would flirt with her all the time. I didn't care because she'd rebuff them all. I would have started to care if she had been returning the favor


Well I wouldn't say immature. See, when you cheat on someone, sometimes there are (and ought to be) consequences. Shoe was very, VERY kind to this girl to take her back after what she did. If his condition for doing that is that she not be near the person she cheated on him with, that's completely understandable. If she wanted to be able to freely associate with her friends without worrying about who else is there, perhaps she should have thought of that when she was getting ready to have sex with this other guy.

Plus, let's recall exactly what happened here. SHE agreed to his condition to get back together. She didn't have to do that. She could have refused his condition, and then she could visit (and have sex with) whoever she wanted. Even now, she still has the option of breaking it off with him if she decides that she doesn't like the condition she agreed to.

But she hasn't done any of that. Instead she was planning to go to this party where her ex-illicit-lover was going to be, and she chose to hide that from Shoe. Now, which of them is being immature?

ShaniFaye

I still say him....he's dictating her ENTIRE social life by making it where she has to know who's going to be where/when. He was invited and declined to go because he couldnt act like an adult and not punch someone out, so yeah Im calling immature behaviour.

Is she supposed to live the rest of her life with him having to suddenly leave parties because this guy showed up.

The girl has no chance to prove that she WILL be faithful to him because he's acting dictator. I completely understand him saying "dont associate with him" to me that does not include having to run scared because this guy showed up at a social situation she was at. To me what it means is she doesnt seek him out to spend time with him.

Am I the only one that thinks this was totally unreasonable? Sounds to me like there has been no forgiveness on the OP's part, he's going to continue to hold it over her head. That is NOT conducive to a productive relationship

For those that dont agree with me, sorry, I cannot stand it when people try to tell other people they have to sit at a party worried about who is or isnt going to show up

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Estevez

Who says that's not what she is planning? I see four possible reasons for her actions.

1) It slipped her mind/She didn't know he was going to be there until later.
2) She didn't want to get into trouble.
3) Having cake and eating it too syndrome.
4) She's getting her next relationship lined up before she dumps shoe because some people are incapable of being single.

3 and 4 would make her the immature one...a metaphorical relationship death penalty, but 1 and 2 are fairly innocent and only minor offenses...a relationship parking citation.

She may not be doing a good job of earning his trust if she is already withholding information from him. If she wanted his trust she would have been open and honest in the first place.

After a little consideration, I would agree with all of the previous posters that said that it all depends on the girls character and whether or not she has matured since her previous infidelity. There IS after all a 50/50 chance that she was trying to protect the relationship.

Although, there is a reason people say, "Once a cheater, always a cheater."

dirtyrascal7

Yes, she did agree to get back together... but we don't yet know under what terms. There is a huge difference if she got back together out of convenience (say if 'fucker' got tired of her and moved on... then she goes and tries to win back shoe) or out of commitment (if after she lost shoe, she realized she really wanted him... and broke it off with 'fucker'). Much different scenarios, and each would shed a different light on the current situation.

From what shoe has told us, it sounds like she still has the "convenience mentality"... which is the less mature perspective to view relationships. However, two wrongs do not make a right. So while I wouldn't go as far as to call shoe's restrictions "extremely immature"... I don't believe they will get him the results he's looking for.

And shani, I obviously agree that the restrictions aren't a viable long-term solution... but I think you need to keep things in perspective. First of all, she full-out cheated on him. And also, you have to remember that it seems she was not as upfront about 'fucker' being at the party as she should have been. He felt betrayed by her (again), and I think he has a right to feel angry. Besides, I don't think he is trying to dictate her entire social life... he even said, "I know i dont have a right to control her but, fuck, we had both agreed that she was not to see him again." I think you are blowing things out of proportion just a bit.

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ShaniFaye

to me its quite simple.....whether is blowing out of proportion or not...eh its an opinion. Either he chose to forgive and take her back, or he chose to take her back so he could lord her infidelity over her head for the rest of her life and punish her for what she did.

True forgiveness and telling her she cant associate with her friends because "fucker" might be there do not go hand in hand IMO.

like I said, sorry if no one else agrees, its just my thoughts. If I were her after this situation I'd be cutting all ties with the OP. I would refuse to deal with knowing he had not actually forgiven what I'd done.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

seretogis

Less mature than the "subservient 18th century housewife mentality", you mean? Relationships go both ways, they are partnerships between two people, not one person owning and controlling the other.

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shoe

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Maybe i am being immature. I am however not controlling her life and certainly not playing 'dictator' with who she may see . I am also not punishing her everyday for her infidelity. She obviously has the right to go out with her friends and i dont have a word to say about that.

Ray, the mutual friend between my GF and this other guy, has been out of town for nearly a year and she has'nt seen him nor the other guy for about that time. She had told me she was going to this party at Ray's house and i was totally cool with that. Eventually it came to my mind that this other guy might be there and so i asked her about it. She then confessed that she was going to tell me after the party if i didn't bring it up with her. That is what really pissed me off. I dont question her everytime she goes out to see who she's with.


Last summer, my relationship with her went downhill for several reasons. I was really busy working and she was quite busy going out with her friends. Eventually, she just pushed me aside instead of communicating. Lots of frustration and pain for me. When she admitted to her infidelity i broke it off immediately and her relationship with the other guy dwindled about 1 day after. He was apparently playing her. We stopped speaking for months and she realized how much i meant for her.

Like i said.. maybe i am being immature. Maybe i come across as this evil and controlling lover. I assure you, i'm really not. I just dont want last summer to repeat itself. Maybe i still dont fully trust her in this regard. Especially with this guy. I want to trust her, i know i need to for the sake of the relationship. Heart and mind are both quite different. I just have these sick memories of last summer... I just have a really hard time dealing with this.

Estevez

Nah, I don't think you are evil. You have a valid reason to be upset. It is just a difficult situation to be in. Heartbreak is always a possibility and those wounds take a long time to heal, but if things go right in a relationship...well...I don't know. They haven't gone right for me, but I hear it is great when it does. If you care about her, be with her. Details are bullshit. If you have unresolved feelings (and I bet you both do), talk them out, otherwise your relationship is going to sink like a stone.

shakran

You're either misunderstanding or intentionally obfuscating the actual situation. We're not talking about a situation in which she was at the party and this guy happened to show up. We're talking about a situation in which BEFORE she went to the party, she KNEW he would be there, and INTENTIONALLY kept that secret from her boyfriend who was nice enough to forgive her for cheating on him.

She's already admitted that she was planning to wait until after the party to tell him that her ex-lover was there. She had the chance to prove that she was trustworthy and wasn't hiding anything, and she blew it. Again. Exactly how many chances do you think she should get?

Perhaps not, but it certainly means that she shouldn't be deceitful about intentionally going somewhere that she knows he is going to show up to.

Oh please.


Look, forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to be a moron. And again, you're missing the point. This wasn't a situation where the guy MIGHT be there. He was absolutely going to be there. And she knew it. And hid that fact from him. I'm frankly surprised you're defending that.

I think he'd be better off if she followed that advice.


Estevez, I disagree with you about point 2 - that's a major offense as well. If she did it because she didn't want to get into trouble, then she knows that what she is planning to is, wrong or not, going to hurt her boyfriend. Again. Hiding what she's going to do until she has already done it is pathetic.

In the context of this thread, no, there isn't. She got back together with him. Whatever the reasons, she made a commitment, and agreed to commit to a very reasonable condition that she not be with her ex lover again, and has now admitted that she was going to intentionally break her commitment. Again.

Willravel

In my view, it's once a cheater always a cheater. Disloyalty, betrayal, dishonesty, deeply unfair; these are not easily dismissed, epically when you're talking about one of the most fundamental relationships in our society, something that's almost sacred.

shoe, I believe that you're justified in your mistrust. It's up to you what to do with that mistrust.

dirtyrascal7

Where the heck did you get that from?

No... the only other perspective I mentioned was that of commitment. I fully agree that they are partnerships... they should be mutually beneficial and interdependent. Two people committed to that will have a healthier relationship than two people in a relationship based on convenience.

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"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."