biznatch

Uncut here.
To people who say things like "it's fucking gross and disgusting. The first time I saw an uncircumsized penis I almost threw up, not kidding," I say that their reaction is caused by having grown up and seen mostly cut ones.

The thread "flaps" discusses the appearance of protruding vaginal lips. In general, men aren't as sensitive as women on the look of their genitalia, but some uncut guys still might feel offended by your post. Me? I don't care. My wife had never seen an uncut penis before, and it took her some getting used to, but she didn't run away screaming, or treat me any different than a cut guy.

For those who use the "teenagers will be emotionally hurt" argument: teens will always have insecurities. Whether they have acne, braces, or a penis that's different from other people's.
As for the smell issue, my answer is the same as other people on my side of the fence: soap and water. If it's fresh and clean, your penis will smell like you(if you're also fresh and clean).
HIV: Use a condom, you should whether you're cut or not(unless you know for sure, with tests, that your partner is disease-free).

I don't see the need for circumcision.

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tenniels

Wow, I didn't know this issue got people so emotional. I'm a female, so I suppose I have shouldn't be replying at all. I really don't care either way, for who I'm sleeping with, as long as we're attracted to each other and clean. From an aesthetic view while watching a porn, I do prefer the look of a cut penis, but that is just one of those personal turn ons. I do believe it should be left up to the family whether or not to cirumsize a child and I do not believe it to be a life altering/traumatizing event. There seems to be pros and cons on both sides of the issue, as there are with everything. I don't think one should be viewed as better than the other, it's a personal decision that family makes. I don't really want to say much more due to the intensity of the thread, but I did want to add my two cents. Either way, who cares?

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RenaissanceII

well my two cents....
I am cut (my parents were not evil, it was jes what was done at the time).
I will admit a facination w/ the uncut penis, tho..

Haye toyed with perhaps non-surgical restoration....

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Anais Nin


I Wish You Well.

Ourcrazymodern?

The thought that people
are still willing to do this
highly upsets me.


Half of the pleasure
or less is less than we need
to have peaceful boys.

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pig

awesome ocm?
i disagree with you...duh
but i like your style

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Lasereth

The standard commentary when you can't find an argument against mine. Make it personal! That'll get'em!

Standard bathing and hygiene rules prove that by the end of the day, a flappy penis is gonna be dirtier than an unflappy penis. There's no arguing it. A place to get stuff stuck in is gonna get dirtier than a penis that doesn't have a place to get stuff stuck in. Yes, you can keep from getting infections and keep it looking decent and sanitary, but when you haven't had a shower in 12 hours and you're about to score, there's no denying that an unflappy is gonna be less dirty.

Mental predisposition? I grew up in a republican I-Hate-Niggers-And-Queers town and turned out to be one of the most open minded people I know that is willing to see things from every point of view. Fact: can uncut penises have a smell that is attributed to the existance of the flap: yes. Does it happen to everyone all of the time? No. But it does happen, and gross smells are disgusting, and some women don't like it. Why would you say your parents are mistreating you for eliminating that possibility?

The viewpoint of circumcision being PURELY asthetical is pretty offkey as well. Can the flap cause smells in some guys. Yes. Do some girls not like the skin flap. Yes. Do some girls refuse to have sex with guys that have the flap. Yes. Do some guys wish they had theirs for extra sexual pleasure? Yes. It's a weight versus weight on each side and for me the advantages heavily outweigh the disadvantages.

I'd also like to add that the mental and physical anguish caused by the actual procedure is horseshit. It's nearly safe to say that it doesn't exist, because the fact that you're not in a warm, dark uterus is pissing you off more than you getting cut at that point. Everything in the world is your enemy when you're born. The air, the doctor, the water, the clothes, life itself is your nightmare when you're a newborn. Adding another quick snippet of pain to your otherwise hatred of being out of the womb isn't gonna fuck anyone up for life as many people are insinuating.

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biznatch

I don't know, Lasereth, I mean, the way you speak about uncircumcised penises in your previous comments makes it seem like your circumcision might've left feelings of hatred and disgust towards your "flap". Maybe the experience of removing it made you hate foreskins?

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Lasereth

I haven't a flap kind sir and would be the guy that tries to remove it himself if I had one. I simply think they're not asthetically pleasing to the eye. I am extremely, <I>extremely</I> picky about the cleanliness of my body so maybe that's why I have a qualmz with them.

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ASU2003

I would rather have my body work to standard specifications, and I should have that choice to change that when I am old enough to make that decision.

If all you have ever known or seen is your uncircumcised penis, I doubt you would find it gross. It would be normal. Well that is if you live in one of the many other countries that don't normally perform this procedure.

It is much more comfortable having a foreskin cover the glans all day. When you walk down the street, go for a run, ride a bike, sit at a desk, or do whatever, keeping the glans an internal organ where it belongs is better.

tenniels

Why is it that the non-circumsized guys are all anti-circumcision and the one's that are cirucumsized are more apt to say an uncut penis is gross? Why does anyone care what your neighbors penis looks like? I mean, maybe I don't understand because I'm female, but I have never considered this a hot topic and am shocked at the intensity this subject brings. I have big boobs, but I'm not like, ooooh girls with small boobs suck, big boobs are WAY better or something like that. Makes no sense to me. I have a preference and that is cut. But to me that is just one of those attraction things like big hips/small hips, blonde hair/red hair etc. I dunno...

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ASU2003

What happens if small breasts were deemed 'popular' by society & religion in certain countries and your parents decided to remove the breast tissue when you were a baby. Why would you want big boobs? They get in the way, they are harder to clean, they can get cancer...

(Assume for a second that they didn't produce milk for a baby and were not necessary for anything. And a lot of guys only liked smll chested women or so they say.)

tenniels

I don't think that would be physically possible as you do not develop breast tissue until you go through puberty. If that's what my parents chose to do, then I'd live with it, just like I've lived with the rest of the decisions they've made for me when I wasn't able to make my own decisions (which wasn't long btw, I took over at a very young age haha).

I think you're missing my point. My point was, who gives a fuck? So your penis isn't cut, why rant and rave about some guy whose dick is cut? I just don't get it. I don't know if it's some built in defense mechanism or what, it just seems odd to me. I think I will stop talking about it, because talking about it more gives the impression that I care either way. I have my preference for sure, but I wouldn't waste my time talking down either side. I would however waste my time asking people why they'd waste their time doing such a think hehe...

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Halx

tenniels, the point of *my* argument.. I don't know about anyone else... is that circumcision is abusive. It's cosmetic surgery done to someone who has no say in the matter. We think chinese foot binding is inhumane, why not circumcision?

It's also a sad cultural thing. If you have a cut penis and you're happy with it, great. That doesn't excuse the cultural propaganda that makes some uneducated people think it's gross to be uncut. Now people ACTUALLY think about their son fitting in when they are seen naked in the locker room a good 15 years before they have to.

Let's not forget that circumcision is a religious thing. It was intended to steer young boys away from sexual pleasure.

So when you ask why I care if someone ELSE is circumcised, I respond that it affects culture to be so mislead about it. And culture affects me.

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KungFuGuy

It seems i'm jumping in rather late but here's my 2 cents.

HIV risk: if you're having lots of unprotected sex with multiple partners, then by all means get yourself cut. The higher levels of white blood cells in the foreskin is actually a good thing for protecting you from everything outside of HIV. Added HIV protection shouldn't even be a factor in the circumcision debate, as everyone should be taking precautions against HIV and other STI's, cut or uncut, already.

The biggest problem with circumcision is that its an unnecessary operation that is done on young boys without their permission or consent. Note that this is different from necessary operations that are life saving. It's largely aesthetic in nature, much like breast augmentation. If you're old enough and decide that circumcision is for you, then go for it. At that point it's your decision to do what you want with your own body. It's not a choice that someone else will be making for you.

The USA is the only country in the world where this is even a debate. Elsewhere (outside of Israel), circumcision is only performed on infants when there's a rare medical condition where the foreskin is closed over the urethra.

I'm uncut. I also have a couple Jewish friends that wish they weren't cut for the reason that it wasn't done with their consent.

biznatch

I wouldn't recommend someone who has unprotected sex with different partners to get cut. I'd tell him to wear a rubber. If he insists on not being protected, I'm sorry, but I'll let natural selection happen. Survival of the least stupid.

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tenniels

Yeah, I didn't mean to give the impression that I don't respect your argument halx, I just don't necessarily see it as abuse myself. I don't understand the foot binding thing, but if that's what they do in their culture, I really don't care tbh. Same with bullfights for example. People say that is abuse, but in the context of Spanish culture, I don't find it abusive. For entertainment outside that culture, yes of course. Anyways, I really don't have anything else to say about the topic because I have my opinion, everyone else has their's. My point was not as much what side I'm on, because I don't care, it's none of my business, but more to why it's being discussed to death. That's the beauty of a forum like this though, different opinions being discussed, and I have a great appreciation for that.

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KungFuGuy

did you read my whole post or just get to that one sentence?

Here's my original post with added bold for the point i was trying to make.

biznatch

I read your whole post. For some reason, though, I don't understand how both the 1st sentence and the last coexist in the same paragraph. Sorry, I just don't get it.

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pig

well guys, i know one thing i'm going to look into: foreskin perforation and transdermal novacaine application.

look, now maybe you think it's a little perverse to cut jr.'s ding dong up when he's a ripe old 2 days old or so. hey, i get it man. i don't think its a huge deal, but maybe you do. hey, i can roll with that; you just love the little guy. want the best for him.

you want him to able to make that choice for himself, and i suppose that's awful good parenting of you. fair enough. now, i'd hate to have to consciously cut up my dick when i was 7 or 12 or 19...i mean, let's face it. i was a bitch about getting shots until i was at least 20 or so...thus, i have to think that if i wanted a circumcision when i was about 16 (and who are we kidding, i would have. my cut penis is so fly people on the street sometimes think they hear theme music coming from my trousers), well, it would have just been plain old scary.

now, if i could wrap some transdermal novacaine gauze around my old glans, put a little foreskin perferator around the little buddy, one twist; nice and perforated...pull off perforator with quick tear...and voila! all nice and circumsized, less than 5 minutes...maybe i could go for that. you never see the little gizmo do its thing, and a few days later lil buddy is ready to rock.

and i'll tell you another thing; the second i see my parents this weekend i'm clubbing them like a drunken eskimo beats a seal when he's got gambling debts. those fuckers! i knew i didn't want to take out the trash when i was in high school, and now i know why. repressed anger and resentment over the emotional scaring they foisted upon me at that tender age. bunch of fucking psychopaths they are.

seriously.

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Ourcrazymodern?

Yes, I like your style.

What concerns me most are the pleasurable sensations that go missing for a man without a foreskin. Secondly, my belief that reproductive equipment probably shouldn't be fucked with, pun intended.

tenniels, for more information and opinions I believe you could find a thread or two where this has been discussed at length.

Regarding circumcision's connection to violence: US & Israel.

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The_Jazz

This line here should immediately qualify this thread for inclusion in the Hall of Fame.

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RenaissanceII

Pig, you really need to come outta your shell... :P

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tenniels

I'm hoping this is a joke and you're not actually blaming violence on circumcision??!!

Great post pigglet, loves it

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Sticky

WTF

What kind of a comment is that?
How does any violent country or people historically fit into that?
What about present day Canada its circumcision percentage is similar to the U.S.?

why would you post something like that.

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Ustwo

Nothing casual about it.

I'm happily circumcised as is my 3 year old at my behest.

I did all the research prior. There are minor but real benefits to being circumcised, plus he will fit in better as well.

Added, of men who were circumcised later in life, almost all reported no change or better sex after circumcision. Obviously you can't compare those who never were and those who were since birth.

The emotion though is I think less aimed at those of us who do it and more aimed at trying to justify not doing it. Few want to be different and stand out, so they over compensate with language claiming superiority loudly and calling parents like me names.

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biznatch

Um, wanting to be different? The people against modifying their children's genitals?

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jewels

I agree.

Female here. No preference as each is sexy in its own way

The argument that women have told circumcised men about a horrific smell in uncircumsized men is ludicrous. That's tantamount to saying men should shave their underarms because of the smell. Those are musky natural scents which are going to seem different the first time a woman encounters an uncut guy.

FWIW, if I'd have given birth to a son, I would not have had him circumsized.

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mtsgsd

Although I agree with you, I have to point out that the appendix is still with us and can cause no end of problems. So much for evolution.

I've often wished I hadn't been cut. Like when I feel like I'm being rubbed raw against my boxers just walking. Doesn't happen often mind, but then I wish there was some extra protection.

Ustwo

And by not modifying as such their children stand out in the US, and not in a good way.

Boys can be quite cruel about such stuff while they play their early dominance games.

The harsh language like mutilation come from that side, and their reaction over steps the procedure. Its attempting to make a major issue out of what at most a minor one if one at all.

From my point of view, I don't care if they aren't circumcised, and if they have to deal with smega and in some case tearing its not that bad I won't call them bad parents for that.

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funydjane

QFT.

And those of you saying women prefer cut men, don't realise that in countries where men aren't usually cut (i.e. most of the world), it's the complete opposite.

ASU2003

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_New...ion_case/3792/

Now if they would just let every baby boy make their own decision as to if they want to get circumcised or not, it would be perfect. And since they aren't able to make that decision as infants, everyone should have to wait until they are 18 or if medically necessary to get this procedure done. In 1996, congress passed a law barring any form of female circumcision, even for religious reasons (the extreme being worse than male circumcision, but the minor FGM was about the same as male circumcision). Now if they would just make that apply to any baby, male or female, it is the way it should be.

And circumcision rates vary across this country, and in the west the circumcised ones are the minority. It is the irrational fear that other guys will tease the uncut ones, or the father is circumcised so the kid should be too that keeps it going. But that hardly ever happens, and if it did, it is probably because the circumcised guy is just jealous that the uncut guy has something that he doesn't have.

With everyone looking to save money everywhere now, I'm surprised that the private health insurance doesn't cut it as a benefit. I would bet a national health insurance plan wouldn't pay for it, because it doesn't for routine circumcision in countries that already have a national health care system.

biznatch

OK, are you saying "good" parents will want to avoid their son's potential emotional damage in a locker room situation? By circumsising him.
Call me crazy, but IMO good parent would talk to his kid and explain to him why his penis looks a certain way and reassure him, instead of slicing part of it off early.
Quit bringing up the smegma(or smell issues, etc), you don't see european kids running around with smegma dripping from their shorts. Because, just like here in the U.S, they take showers.
Cosmetic surgery on a baby is not a minor issue.

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Ustwo

You know I didn't read your old post saying you were uncut, it explains it.

I don't think its a big issue, its those uncut that do.

From studies of Russian Jews who moved to Israel and got circumcised as adults there, almost all thought the results were favorable to being uncircumcised.

I'm happy with having my kid circumcised and I'm not upset with my parents for doing it to me. I'm sure those 'good' parents who don't and then explain to their children why they are different do so in terms of being superior to make their snowflake feel better and later they make sure to tell their friends how they were mutilated by their parents unlike what his parents did.

Anyways, cut and happy, enjoy that foreskin if you aren't.

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Master_Shake

Uncut and happy here. Honestly, getting a chick to start blowing when she's confronted with the "flap" is the easiest part of the process. Getting her drunk enough* to get down on her knees in the first place is the hard part.





*Just kidding. Mostly.

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buckruss

Don't you just love how heated of an issue this is. You will always have somebody who believes there way is the only way to be and if you don't agree then you are a child abuser. Mainly that is just for the uncut person.
Those who are cut now, pretty much where born when it was highly recommended at the time. Now most doctors do not tell that. They present the case for and against it.
Most of those who were cut as babys feel no regret on their parents decision.
So it has come to be the social norm for a baby to be cut.
In the end, its the up to the parents, much like those with little girls getting their ears pierced. Both are more for aesthetic reasons then anything else, but would these people arguing against giving a parent the choice say the same for ear piercing?
As you can tell, Yes I am cut, and my 2 boys are cut. Do I feel cheated by not having my foreskin, not at all. Does my wife feel cheated by me not having foreskin, certainly not.
As for the ones who claim its child abuse to allow an unnecessary surgery on your baby, call CPS please. Take the time to report each person who takes there child into the hospital to have some part of the body the removed or some foreign object inserted into the body.
I know I will be high on the list since both boys have had ear tubes and their anoieds removed (just another unless part of the body). The anoieds where removed to help prevent future ear infections only. Those with children who have to go thru this will know most doctors will say to go ahead and remove the anoieds and tonsils at the same time as putting in ear tubes, regardless if they are causing a problem at that time. This is just to save the cost and risk of future surgery JUST IN CASE they cause a problem in the future.

On a final note for the idiots who want to take more of our rights way.
I've always enjoyed the right to make my own decisions for me and my family. If insurance does not want to pay for this anymore, so be, I still want the right to chose. I want my kids to have the same rights as me when it comes to their family in the future. I will always be against any new law that bans your right to a choice. Enough with the idiots who want take away with our right to make our own choices. If you feel to stupid to be able to make your choices and feel their needs to be law to make it for you, go check yourself into a special needs house, so you will never again be bothered by having to think again.

evilbeefchan

My penis is better than yours. It always has been. Cut/uncut, my parents made it so. Or I decided to take it into my own hands to make it so. And I will defend and justify this til my death because me penis is a very important topic. It never smells as I spend hours cleaning every curve and contour. It pleases everyone it's touched, by the sheer power of it being cut/uncut.

My son's penis will also be better than yours and everyone else. I will take great joy in living vicariously through his youth; his awkward teen years wondering what everyone's penis looks like, also having all the girls worship me for giving him the best damn penis in the world. Well, second best, of course.

I'm just happy to have one. *thumbs up to penis*

Jinn

It has nothing to do with cultural propaganda. I like it better, just like I like "innies" for belly buttons more than I like "outies." That's a surgical procedure too, if you want to split hairs. It doesn't mean it's propaganda, or that I've somehow been manipulated. I just prefer to see one over the other.

If I have a male child he will be circumcised.

It happened to me, and I'm happy with the results.

Therefore it follows that I will continue with something I am happy with, in absence of evidence which provides a convincing reason to deviate. No such evidence exists which has convinced me of such.

QED?

And by the way, comparing female circumcision to male circumcision is like comparing vitamins to nerve gas.

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ASU2003

I think you guys need to watch the Penn & Teller episode one more time. Here's a link:
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3497129/...s_(49_Episodes)

Laws are there to protect the weak and to allow the individual to decide what is best for them. Girls now have to wait until they are 18 to decide. And in Oregon, this 12 year old boy gets to choose. (from the link higher up on the page). And unless it is a real medical necessity, I don't feel that parents should even be routinely asked at the hospital if they want it done, but I'm sure they still are. It should be up to the individual to make that choice when they are old enough.

Ustwo

Thats what you say, I say different, and I have so decided for my son.

I'm glad I'm circumcised and I'm glad I didn't have to do it as an adult. Win, win.

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Barstool

Uncut is disgusting and unsanitary, IMO. I mean, I make a big enough mess as it is, and I'm cut.

My dad said the only reason they had it done was so I would "look like daddy." His was done at birth also, and dad didn't want me growing up with some stigma about looking different.