pig

yeah, hal, within certain limits that exactly how it works, until the child is old enough to make decisions for itself. the question is where that line is drawn; i think you're drastically mischaracterizing parents who have their children circumsized. seriously; what's the big deal with this type of infant cosmetic surgery compared to the other types that are routinely performed? the scope in terms of how often its performed? the fact that its socially well known and accepted? i just don't get the level of indignation over it.

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Halx

Let's just start with the fact that it is cosmetic surgery and go from there.

It's vain, needless, and very much a social decision. Just because something is commonplace doesn't make it a-ok. Giving into a trend is nothing to be proud of. People do a lot of socially acceptable things that are just plain bad ideas regardless. And make no mistake, this is a trend.

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pig

whether or not it's a purely cosmetic surgery seems to be debatable, from a medical and hygienic standpoint. however, instead of just the wiki articles and whatnot, i'm going to ask my friend's wife who is in residency to be a ob/gyn/baby-yanker-outer what the deal is. they just had a baby boy about a month ago, and i'd like to know what they did. neither are remotely jewish, so religion i don't think will be an issue. the rest of your post is necessarily contingent on the purely cosmetic angle; but i also would posit that this very much seems to me to be a six in one / half dozen in the other issue. i've never actually thought much about it before, and i can't really find myself compelled to vigorously get upset over it in particular. i do think your demonization of parents who have their kids circumsized is a bit over the top. i'd get much more upset over the fucked up mental and psychological images and values we pass on as a society as compared to the great circumcision debate.

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tecoyah

We decided to look carefully at this proceedure when Sagan was born, and I personally found the Mayo Clinic information the least Biased after asking my doctor, and looking atfar too many websites.

Sagan still has his whole enchilada....and someday I think he will be glad.

"The benefits

Circumcision may have health benefits, including:

* Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it easy to wash the penis — although it's simple to clean an uncircumcised penis, too.
* Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The risk of urinary tract infections in the first year is low, but these infections may be up to 10 times as common in uncircumcised baby boys. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later on.
* Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally, the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis may narrow so much that it's difficult or impossible to retract. This can also lead to inflammation of the head of the penis.
* Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is very rare, it's less common in circumcised men.
* Decreased risk of sexually transmitted diseases. Safe sexual practices remain essential, but circumcised men may have a slightly lower risk of certain sexually transmitted diseases — including HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, and human papillomavirus (HPV), which causes genital warts. Some strains of HPV also cause cervical cancer.

The drawbacks

Circumcision also has drawbacks, including:

* Surgical risks. Excessive bleeding and infection are uncommon, but possible. The foreskin may be cut too short or too long or fail to heal properly. If the remaining foreskin reattaches to the end of the penis, minor surgery may be needed to correct it.
* Pain. Circumcision hurts. Local anesthesia can block nerve sensations during the procedure.
* Permanence. After the procedure, it may be impossible to re-create the appearance of an uncircumcised penis.
* Expense. Some insurance companies don't cover the cost of circumcision."

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/circumcision/PR00040


I honestly just didn't want to take anything away from my son, if I could avoid it.

JStrider

I AM circumcised. I don't feel upset about it or scarred or anything. I do sometimes wonder how much sensation I am missing out on. I wonder if you do the foreskin restoration stuff they talked about in the video if it restores a lot of the feeling that is lost.

I don't intend on circumcising any sons I may have in the future. Just seems like an unnecessary surgical procedure, that seems to have dubious health benefits.

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tisonlyi

"babies are altered for aesthetic reasons fairly often, if my understanding is correct from friends who work in delivery rooms. i can understand the genital mutilation argument on this issue, but its nothing to get all high and mighty about. removal of the foreskin doesn't change your dick that much; to compare it the genital removal rituals performed in africa or the like where they cut out the entire fucking clitoris or more is just asinine. as for the baby; have y'all ever been around babies? the ones i've been around have been fucking crying factories. my opinion that the circumcision / non-circumcision decision isn't the most paramount issue our children face isn't going to be swayed by a video of a baby crying; purely emotional play there."

For a definition of asinine, re-read your own text.

"removal of the foreskin doesn't change your dick that much" - ??? Insane. IF it doesn't change it that much, then why have your child put through agony to do it at all?

"to compare it the genital removal rituals performed in africa or the like where they cut out the entire fucking clitoris or more is just asinine." - where did i do that? I made a clear point comparing one aesthetic choice for skin removal to another, not clitoral removal. You upped the ante to try and ridicule the point. deliberate misdirection combined with an attack on me personally. well done. here's an ad hominem argument for you...

If you're in favour of child abuse, or even not against it, you're a child abuser.

If a procedure is performed on a child, a procedure which causes intense pain and permanent damage, for no sound medical reason then IT IS CHILD ABUSE.

"how do y'all feel if a parent elects to have something like a hairlip or birthmark removed when an infant is young? i was going to say cleft pallette work, but i think the old cleft pallette is a little more serious than the scope of dick surgery we're talking about. still, i don't know. i had a friends who left ear never fully unfolded when he was an infant, and his parents arranged to have it juked around with using a scapel and such to unfold it...for purely ascethic reasons. the guy was never upset at his parents for altering his natural appearance. i mean, maybe we're all sociologically brainwashed, but the fact that a bunch of guys who are cut...replying in this thread saying that we don't feel mentally and emotionally scarred...should be a reasonable indication that its not the heinous procedure that the uncut chaps are making it out to be."

cleft palette. hairline lip. disfigurements in general. serious deviations from 'the norm' which will radically affect the child's opportunities in later life.

Foreskin? How is that going to affect a person in their job interviews exactly?

"the... decision isn't the most paramount issue our children face and isn't going to be swayed by a video of a baby crying; purely emotional play there". I'm stunned. Human beings shouldn't let emotion come into our decisions as to whether babies should be mutilated or not. *shakes head*

Paramount concern? I'm sure the baby might not be worried about it's college fund at the time the clamp is attached...

Perhaps if you could translate the impulses overwhelming the newborn's nervous system into something in black and white, maybe then it'd be more cogent.

A baby is not a thing, not a lifestyle accessory to sculpt into whatever image you choose. It is a person. A defenceless person. A person who needs someone to protect it from harm. A person to love it.

Are you really looking after your baby if you're taking a knife to it for no good reason?

Seriously.

YOU ARE AMPUTATING A PERFECTLY GOOD PART OF A NEWBORN BABY'S ANATOMY FOR NO GOOD REASON.

Doesn't that make you think... err... maybe this isn't something i should do?

Really, if you don't see this as clear cut (pardon the pun) against, open and snip, err i mean shut, then you're deranged.

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Lasereth

Jesus it has nothing to do with cosmetics. They cut the skin off because it's fucking gross and disgusting. The first time I saw an uncircumsized penis I almost threw up, not kidding. I thank my parents on the inside everytime I think about what my penis could have ended up like.

If there are parents out there that get it cut for dumb shit religious reasons, that's a different story, but I think it's just fucking gross and unsanitary so my son will be having it done. It has nothing to do with what it looks like. It's the fact that it's SKIN FLAPS that can get disgusting crap stuck in them that makes me so pro for it. How in the world can anyone seriously think that it's unfair to get the skin cut off. Your parents are doing you a favor if you ask me. I get to go through life without having a slug penis that smells and is disgusting. Cut. Dispose. Win!

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Halx

Oh I get it. All those countries in Europe that have higher rates of sexual activity, lower rates of infection and women with hot accents are WAY behind the US because they don't routinely remove the foreskin.

And seriously, to almost throw up at the sight of a natural penis... that's YOUR problem, nobody else's.

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World's King

Halx, he was kidding about the throwing up thing.


And I have to agree. I think the science behind the whole thing is a waste. If I had a choice later in life to get mine cut or not I would have gone with cut. Cause like I said before... I'm not a fan of turtle necks.

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pig

ok, i did. ooooh burn...oh wait...was there a point to that insult? hmmm....

because it changes it a little. in ways that might make it easier to clean and apparently may make it less receptive to certain stds, etc.

newflash! i wasn't responding to you specifically, but to the thread and the general commentary. seriously, calm down.

1. you're assuming certain facts in this statement you can not back up. namely that there is no sound medical/hygienic reason, and that it causes "damage" is a choice of semantics that belies your bias, and
2.because we typically cover it with clothing then it deserves special treatment? i thought this was about the underlying physical and psychological damage to the child? i hate to say it, but an uncircumsized penis could be a drawback sexually; but frankly i'd rather think that a chick would be ok with whichever type of penis the guy had if she was into him. is it child abuse when a doc sticks a thermometer up a baby's ass for a while, holding him/her still so it won't squirm? how about shots for vacinations that many people don't believe are necessary? i'm just saying its not as clear fucking cut as you want to make it out to be, and for christ's sake stop getting so fucking up in arms about it. i'm not trying to "attack" you; specifically or in general. i'm simply stating that reasonable people can have reasonably differing opinions on this. for fuck's sake.

yes, you nailed the point of my statement. absolutely. skewered it. i don't know why i'm going through this paragraph by paragraph, but shit. seriously.

well, that's not the first time i've been called deranged; welcome to the club. but that's what i'm saying. listen, i'm sure it hurts to have your dick cut. i've done it when trying to trim pubic hair with a pair of fucking scissors (bad idea, by the way). it hurts. circumcision is obviously not strictly necessary; i know some great guys with presumably great peni, healthy and friendly and intelligent, all with uncut peni. but i think that some people who know a shit more than i do would say it may have some health affects, and i don't think it seriously hurts the young man-child. i respect people who choose not to do so, i respect people who haven't had it done.

oh, and hal: i hate to do this, but i want it to be clear that i don't share lasereth's point of view on the disgusting nature of the uncircumsized peni. i like my little cut buddy, but i have nothing against the uncut ones. we all have what we have, we do what we do; shit, diversity is a pretty great thing. i don't particularly care about, and in fact i can understand your position in this "debate;" i just don't think that making out people who have their sons circumsized to be evil is particularly accurate or conducive.

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aberkok

I wonder if you've heard of soap and water. Keeping the foreskin clean is about as difficult as not forgetting your keys when you leave the house.

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spindles

i have two boys - neither are circumcised and it really wasn't a hard decision, becuase there is no reason to do it. Also, I'm pretty sure we had a discussion about this about a year ago...

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Infinite_Loser

...It doesn't do anything.

Anyway, as is my motto, less is more. I'm circumcised and if I have a son he's getting circumcised as well.

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tisonlyi

"...It doesn't do anything."

Neither do your little fingers, shall we cut those off too?

Look, let's put this into a global perspective.

Slicing up female genitals is wrong and gross and evil. We can agree on this from both sides of the pond because we don't do it.

It may interest you to know that many/most of those who undergo this sadism do so willingly. Happily in fact, because they are sold tales of... aesthetics and social acceptance "You won't get married". That to have those pieces of tissue makes you "unclean" and also, "ungodly"!

Who are the ringleaders of this myth perpetuation down the generations? THE EVIL MEN? unfortunately not. It's those who underwent this abomination themselves. Those who recoil at the thought and sight of an unmutilated set of female genitalia. Those who think it disgusting, unclean, etc, etc...

Your culture ritually and systematically mutilates it's baby boys. Mine does not. You defend this mutilation, I see it for what it is.

Look at your cock. Look at the scars. Imagine those had been inflicted at a time when your memory was switched on. Imagine the searing agony of skin being detached from skin.

Think of yourself as a caring parent.

What would you do?

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Mister Coaster

Your exapmples are all considered "defects" that require medical attention to correct. There is nothing defective about an uncut penis.

Lasereth: Get over yourself.

James t kirk: I call bullshit on the girl who say all uncut dicks smell. She has a mental predisposition like Lasereth, and is using smell as a scapegoat. I'm uncut, and on a typical afternoon, my balls smell worse then my dick.

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Infinite_Loser

You serious...? It's kinda' hard to play most instruments (Among other things) without the use of your little finger

I do hope you understand the physiological ramifications of female genitalia cutting and how it vastly differs from male circumcision.

So cutting off an otherwise useless portion of skin is mutilation? Mmmkay... I'm circumcised and I have to say that I'm pretty happy being that way. As far as I can tell, I haven't suffered any negative consequences because of it.

I'd still have him circumcised. Simply because it might hurt is no reason to not have it done. When I was younger I happened to watch my sister get her ears pierced. From what I could tell, it hurt like hell as she cried and cried and cried. I imagine she cried about as much as I did when I was circumcised. Aside from the 'fact that it hurts' (Which really is irrelevant since circumcision is done at a very young age), I haven't seen any argument as to why you wouldn't have yourself (Or your son) circumcised.

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pig

what the fuck il? this makes two times within a fortnight or so that i find myself agreeing with you. this is simply preposterous.

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Halx

I guess there's just this big disconnect with the parenting issue. Some believe that children should grow up before making any cosmetic change decisions. Others believe they can have it done for them, without their choice before they're old enough to "remember" it.

And to compare the pain with that of an ear piercing seems laughable.

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kutulu

As said earlier, circumcision is not correction of a deformity like a clef pallet. It is cutting a perfectly functional part of your baby's anatomy. It is extremely painful and just plain mean. Don't forget that it's an extra profit center for the hospital industry that already rapes and pillages us at every possible step.

I'm cut, and although I'm fine with that, I would be fine now being uncut.

Infinite_Loser

Like I said, I don't remember being circumcised (Since I would have been only a few hours old), but I do remember the apparent pain my sister went through when she had her ears pierced (I remember my mom had to hold her down to the chair). The point I was (Trying) to make was that amount of pain involved in an action is purely subjective; It depends entirely on the person. I'd like to point out to you that, indeed, some babies don't cry at all while being circumcised.

Anyway, the only real argument against circumcision is that it can be traumatizing. Ehhh... 22 years later and I think I'm doing all right. In fact, I've absolutely NO memory of being circumcised. Funny, isn't it?

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Halx

No, that is not the argument. The argument is that the child has a part of his body altered - cut OFF - without having a say in it.

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Charlatan

The only real argument against circumcision is that it is unnecessary.

There is no convincing reason to do it.

Every example given here as been either cosmetic or cultural assimilation. All of the medical ones seem weak at best as they have solid counter positions.

It just doesn't make any sense that someone would perform an unnecessary procedure to their child just so they can look like they do or so they will "fit it".

It makes no sense at all.

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waltert

tsionlyi, I think you're being entirely overdramatic. I've seen babies cry themselves into a state of near shock because their bottle was taken away.

I have been cut, my penis works FINE. I can beat off in about 30 seconds if I'm excited.

I would probably opt not to have my sons get cut, but if the (future)wife wants it, then she can pay to have it done.

I think that either way, the boy's going to do just fine in life, so at worst, its an unnecessary surgery that wastes $400....it probably wont matter much to the boy either way....trust me, somehow I know that I am not bothered by the fact that I was circumcised.

Here are some things that DID bother me from my childhood:

having my right thumb nearly cut off by a closing door.

having that same thumb (with no thumbnail after the surgery to re-attatch the tip of my thumb) being stepped on by my 300lb step-father.

and once, I nailed my face on the concrete.

while riding my bicycle barefoot, I wiped out pretty hard and got some good road rash.

trying to do a backflip into a pool and scraping my back along the pool edge.

My list of childhood suffering goes on....and I can say...without question that the one that bothers me the least is that I was circumcised.

Infinite_Loser

Do you remember the thread where the OP said that having a child was rude as you couldn't ask the child if (s)he would like to be born before giving birth to him/her? Your argument doesn't make much more sense than that one.

Ask a newborn baby if he would like to be circumcised. Tell me the answer you get. The fact is that you won't get an answer as newborns are incapable of making rational/conscious decisions concerning their own well-being, therefore his parents do it for him.

You don't like their decision? That's too damn bad. There's nothing wrong with circumcision and every male I know who's been circumcised seems to be functioning normally. In fact, I see no reason why you wouldn't want to your son (Or even yourself) to be circumcised-- Especially if the claims of circumcision protecting against HIV are true.

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Halx

The responses have been at least halfway sane, until that one. I'm done. I've stated my opinion very clearly.

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tisonlyi

Honestly. I give up.

You're justifying the choice of your parents by ratifying it yourselves.

THERE IS NO REASON TO DO THIS. `****NONE****

Medical. BS.
Aesthetic. Abhorrent.

You are not normal if you have a circumcision. You're a freak. You're a person who has been mutilated by their parents.

Have a nice day.

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"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

pig

tisonly, if i was the post-reporting type of person, that post might be the type of post i'd report. what the fuck? (now i'm specifically replying to you, by the way). the medical and hygienic concerns can't rationally be dismissed as "b.s." you might think they are insignificant compared to the irreparable damage done to the child, but that's a different perspective.

aside from the emotional ranting, everything that needs to be said about this has probably been said.

so i'll ditto hal's post above yours.

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Painted

ooooooooookaayyyyy

Well, I wasn't circumsized. I grew up pretty normally. I've had a few tract infections before, but they weren't so bad (just made my piss smell like pizza [???]). As for girls caring about it, none of them did. Not even the hardcore Jewish twins. Although, when I'm hard my skin rolls back naturally so it doesn't really look like I'm not cut. Even when I'm soft the skin only covers a part of my head. Smell? Nahh, my cock doesn't smell, so long as I wash it every day. I'm sure that's true for all guys, though.

In conclusion, I would probably cut my son, but only with the use of some heavy-duty anasthesia. He can grow it back if he wants to.

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filtherton

I'm circumcised and my cock smells great.


QED motherfuckers, QED.

waltert

last time I checked, there are MANY people who do much worse things to themselves. tatoos, piercings, etc. are fairly common.

and a couple of posts above me, I see an uncut guy who's had a urinary tract infection. that intrigues me, since I've never known another male to have gotten a urinary infection. I suppose there might be some merit to the circumcision for cleanliness after all (though I do understand that this does not signify a general trend, and could be a random occurence)

Kaziglu

Every single one of you who's been giving reasons for it to be cut or not to be cut just need to shut up. If you REALLY want to find reasons to cut or not cut your son or sons go out and ask at least 10 different women (from different groups, not all 10 hanging out together) if they mind uncut men. If 50% say they prefer cut men to uncut then you're screwed enjoy :P. If more then 50% say they prefer cut men to uncut because it's *insert one of the many reasons people say uncut is bad here* then there's your answer. I say there's your answer because unless you're planning on having a gay son (being gay isn't bad but most guys aren't so chances are yours won't be) then you might want to get him cut so that he can have a better chance to get ass.

Don't you think it'd scar your child more if he had a girl look at his uncut penis in disgust then to be cut when they're so young they will have no memory what so ever of it even happening? Yes, lots of women (never met one) are fine with uncut penises, but don't you think just having that one woman look at you in disgust because you're uncut would be bad enough? I know from experience (talking to girls :-O) that a lot of girls have never even seen an uncut penis, and when I showed them one (not mine, picture online) they thought it looked either A: Hilarious B: Nasty or C: Like a turtle poking his head out of his shell. I will have my son or sons be cut that way they will never have to experience the pain of having a girl laugh at them, OH WAIT! they probably will, so I guess I'm doing it to (if one never laughed at you hooray for you) the option of being laughed and or denied by a girl for being uncut.

I have a cut penis and seriously, to me I think it'd be annoying to have one that is uncut, I don't want to have to actually pay attention when I clean down there to make sure I get between my "magical helmet" around my penis. The mere fact you all are bantering back and forth about "uncut is betta!" "no! cut is betta!" is retarded, IT'S YOUR OPINION, stop trying to change others opinions because for some reason you feel the need to express how proud you are of your uncut and or cut cock. (that last part goes out mainly to the people talking about their uncut penis and how they're so proud of it, seeing as most the guys posting who are cut give THEIR reason for liking it, and not reasons for cutting your kid or not cutting your kid) I just realized this so I decided to edit my post, if you need extra help like "bumps" on your cock to bring a woman to orgasm.... pretty sure you're going to need more then "bumps" it's not exactly amazingly hard. No I have never not made a woman cum, in fact the first time I made a girl cum (no experience what so ever) she was screaming "oh god, oh god" so much I felt like I was in church again. If I can do that on my first try, pretty sure if you guys just got a little more experience you'd be able to as well. Yes, having that be my first sexual experience freaking rocked! Nothing better then making a girl cum 4 times your first try (her dad called a few times so she kept getting up to leave, I said "I'm not done with you" and she happily got back on the bed :-D. Seriously not making this shit up, I hope all guys having their first sexual experience, have one that makes them feel as kick ass as this one made me feel.

Obviously you're one of those people that when they have their mind made up about something will never change it because "I'm right! and they're wrong!". Why not accept that other people have DIFFERENT opinions then you and just say "Alright, well I obviously can't sway you to my side so I'm going to stop trying now, later everyone!" at least that way you won't sound like a total jackass who believes everyone who doesn't agree with him to be idiots.

The_Jazz

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Hektore

So...the only real reason to have a circumcision or not is whether chicks dig it? I would hope that any son I may or may not have (actually all sons) is raised to be secure enough in himself that if some woman bases their entire perception of him on the way his penis looks then he is smart enough to send that shallow bitch packing.

Also, it's not really simple at all. The bottom line is that circumcision is unecessary, in the sense that people who are uncircumsized (the way they are born) live long perfectly happy, perfectly normal lives independantly of having their foreskin left intact. Because it is unecessary, if you want to have it done to your son you should have some justification for it. There have been justifications provided, it provides more ease with hygeine to have it removed and there may (I have yet to see any conclusive evidence either way) be some medical benefit. The question is do the benefits merit the procedure?

Wait...it still isn't that simple because a circumcision can be performed at any age. Our future sons may one some input on the matter, after all, it is their penii we're talking about here. Some say as a parent it's their right and the kid doesn't get a say, others say it shouldn't be the parents decision when it's perfectly reasonable and possible to wait and let the kid decide for himself. Also it's much easier to have a circumcision than it is to undo one.

So the question is now pretty complicated. For me? Basically it is unecessary, and the potential benefits don't really amount anything. The decreased risk of HIV is so miniscule compared to things like safe sex practices. If you don't know if the girl has HIV, and you just have to have sex with her, wrap it up. There is no excuse not to. I'm willing to bet good money that whether or not you were circumsized is going to be the sole determining factor for whether or not you get HIV about 0% of the time. Also, the hygeine thing just lets you be lazy, if you can't handle cleaning up your toys everyday, maybe you shouldn' t have them . Also, if the kid wants to have it done, then they can, I see no reason not to let them make up their own mind. So unless the future wife has a serious opinion that swings other way no slicing up any of my sons.

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Kaziglu

Now I do hate this show, but one episode was about the main characters son and how he felt like shit because a girl thought his uncut penis was weird. In the show he gets really pissed at his parents because they didn't cut him etc. and eventually tries to do it himself. What I know to be true about teenagers is
1: Teenagers no matter how they are raised are almost always going to be self conscious about themselves.
2: Teenagers like to fit in because most can't handle being an "outcast".
3: Most do not deal well with being laughed at, and or teased about something they're already self conscious about.

It's hard enough being a teenager, I really think that if your kid was to get turned down and have a girl look at his penis in disgust because he wasn't cut, that when you asked him a week later if he would've preferred to be cut he'd most likely reply "yes, it would have saved me the humiliation of having a girl that I really like looking at my penis like it disgusts her". Yes given that your kids should not give a shit what people that would actually get hung up about that kind of thing if they really liked your son, but the majority of teenagers do care what other people think.

So like most things concerning your child, it's a matter of opinion. The thing I find interesting is lot's of people are saying "it's unnecessary" so they aren't going to do it to your son. Using meds to make your kid feel better while they're sick etc. is unnecessary also but you do it why? Because you want your kid to feel better. Many things are unnecessary, it's not really a matter of being necessary or not, it's a matter of keeping your girl or boy from having to go through unnecessary painful moments. Yeah it goes both ways seeing as the procedure hurts, but seeing as you can't remember pain or remember being that young, pretty sure it doesn't count.

aberkok

By this rationale, shouldn't we administer liposuction or stomach stapling to an overweight child? You'd think girls would sooner go out with an uncut kid than a fat kid....

What say you?

Besides...why does "not being able to remember the pain" of an infant circumcision make it justifiable to make an infant go through it?

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1010011010

Uncircumcised infants are at a slightly higher risk for urinary tract infections due to urine trapped under the foreskin. Phimosis, penile cancer, etc. are also strikes against foreskins. Circumcision, being a medical procedure, has a risk of complications and infection. When balanced against the other, circumcision comes out a fraction of a percent ahead.

STD infection rates are irrelevant to a discussion of infant circumcision. Furthermore, if I ever heard anyone say "I don't need a condom, I'm circumcised." I would smack them.

Even if it were a completely painless (they have improved local anesthetics coming into use) procedure, there is no particularly good reason to remove a functioning piece of a kids genitals. None.

Do learn about the proper care of a normal infant penis, though, if you choose to leave your kids intact.

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Ourcrazymodern?

Circumcision's not cosmetic.

It's a perversion.

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ryfo

If I waited til my cat had to have an operation to get the microchipping done cos it might hurt, I cant in all honesty EVER contemplate putting MY flesh and blood thru THAT! I am circumcised but it doesnt mean its right!

Tirian

I am cut, wish I was not, my two sons are not.
Break the cycle.

Martian

I am uncircumcised and I did once get a urinary tract infection. Granted I was in hospital and had a catheter in at the time, but I'm sure my foreskin was a major contributing factor there.

Or it could've just happened because someone jammed a fucking tube up my fucking dick.

Now that that's out of my system...

Seriously, I have never had any problems with my foreskin. And personally, I like my foreskin. Granted I've never had sex without it, but I do know that it's fairly sensitive and thus it would stand to reason that it adds sensitivity. Also, I have never had a girl refuse to sleep with me (or do anything else, for that matter) based solely on the grounds that I'm intact. Indeed, one ex of mine was rather fond of playing peek-a-boo with it.

I can't imagine I'll contribute too much to this particular discussion, for the simple fact that when emotions rise, rationality falls and emotions are flying high here. I will say that it seems unnecessary and a bit uncouth to say the least to lop off a bit of an infants cock, whether that particular bit is necessary or not. The worst you can really say about a man's foreskin is that it really doesn't do any good - I'm damn sure it's never done me any harm. And to do it for aesthetic reasons... hell, I wouldn't even consider altering my cat for purely aesthetic reasons. Future son of mine? Hell no.

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I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
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