Aphrodite83

Hi everyone, I'm new to TFP and this is my first post. A friend of mine has been on here for years and he suggested I check it out, specifically for this problem of mine.

I have been dating this guy for 4 months. I'm 24 and he's 27. Things have been pretty good. We fell in love about 1.5 months ago, and have been saying I love you and all that. He was raised by Christian missionary parents under very strict and fundamentalist Christian doctrine, and it wasn't until he was 25 (2 years ago) that he left the religion. So he is still quite focused on Christianity and the bible, at least the study of it and denying it. His parents taught him that sex is meant only for marriage and it should never be experienced by two unwed people. However, he has had sex with 4 girls in the last 2 years, but has only done it a total of something like 8 times. From what I understand, none of the experiences were all that great.

We have been playing "hand games" (as my college friend calls it) since the beginning, and I have been going down on him for the last 3 months (although not very often). He has yet to go down on me, even though he knows it's my absolute favorite thing. I have been asking for it for almost 3 months now. I have also been asking for sex for probably 2.5 months now. He keeps saying he's not ready and that he doesn't foresee being ready in the near future. This wouldn't bug me that much, except I get the feeling he won't be ready for a long time. I have much more experience than him, almost 6 years worth, and at least 85% of it was positive. I love having sex, especially with someone I care about, and I so want to have sex with him. But he keeps saying he's not ready, even though he really wants to have sex with me. I don't think the desire is an issue, as he gets hard when we're together, and is obviously very turned on by me. I think the biggest part is the leftover Christian morals that were instilled in his brain.

So my deal is this. I would like to continue dating him, but this sex thing is really hurting our relationship. Yesterday he said I might be "sexually dysfunctional" because I want/need sex so badly. I don't think that is the case. I haven't had sex in 6 months, and what normal human wouldn't be antsy after that long? Especially when (s)he spent the last 4 months dating someone, when sex should be readily available!

He has told me he will never date a religious girl, yet he seems to want to delay sex until marriage (even though he's had it before). I'm trying to get him to understand that he will never meet a non-religious girl who will abstain from sex for a long time. It's just impossible. The only reason people abstain until marriage is for religious reasons... why else would you? And even then... the vast majority of religious people I know have had premarital sex. Most of his friends are from his Christian college, so they are in their late 20s and still virgins. He just has this skewed view of reality when it comes to premarital sex. I understand why it's so skewed, but at the same time, he needs to realize it's so skewed.

So I guess I am not quite sure what to do. I know I can't change him, but I know I can also guarantee he'll never meet a girl who will fit his criteria (non-religious and abstinent). I feel like my relationship with him would be great if he would just have sex with me... or at the very least go down on me!

I am just looking for some advice. Sorry this post is so incredibly long. Thank you in advance to those of you who respond!

Willravel

He's scared. You said he's had sex before, so it's not a virgin thing. He's no longer Christian, so either it's not that or he's not done with the process of leaving the flock. I'm a recent atheist, and I shag all the time. It's a fringe benefit.

I've spoken to a lot of recent atheists, and I'd be glad to tell the story of the pastor's kid turned hardened agnostic atheist.

Best of luck.

Ourcrazymodern?

He's (wrong).
You're much more human.
I think you should find somebody else, or drag him out of his closet, kicking and screaming. Take the best for yourself, 83!

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Aphrodite83

Well another issue is that he's told me he thinks he's bad at it because 1) he doesn't have much experience, and 2) girls have actually TOLD him he's bad at it. Girls #2-4 were one-time only deals (not one-night-stands, they actually dated), so he seems to be equating sex with girls leaving him.

He's no longer Christian, but he's still very immersed in researching Christianity and dealing with all of that in his head. I definitely do not see him returning to it. I think the biggest issue is that he still has morals and ethics he grew up with that are the result of formerly being a Christian, not necessarily tied to being Christian. It's hard to drop something you were taught for so long. Most Christians have premarital sex, it's the fundamentalists (like his family) who do not.

What do you think it could be, if it's not the other options?

Willravel

Well his previous girlfriends were probably Christians, too, and they dumped on them because they thought themselves promiscuous (as if it's a bad thing) andf that insecurity led them to lash out. You should remind your boyfriend that the sex actually reflects the love. People who love each other almost never have bad sex. I've never had it with anyone I've loved.

Coming out of the dogmatic morality of Christianity is a long process, so he may need space. It wasn't until over a year after I left the flock that I realized that I'll not be meeting my grandfather in heaven. Heavy stuff, right? Like I said, a long process. Help him, encourage him, and do your best not to rush him.

One thing that stuck out to me, he needs to return the favor asap. I mean it's one thing to come to terms with the fact that there almost certainly is no god...it's something completely different not to return the favor. That's just rude.

Aphrodite83

Actually no, his previous girlfriends were not Christians. They either weren't looking for something serious, or just weren't right for him for various reasons.

skier

I think what you really need to figure out and have a long serious discussion about is if he doesn't want to have sex because of his beliefs, or because of his fears.

You are both adults, and have spent more than enough time together to get to the bottom of this. If he is just scared, the act of acknowledgment is the starting point to work through his fear (however slowly or quickly.) If it turns out to be a faith based belief he has or if he won't admit he's scared, there is nothing you can do personally to change that, other than support his own change, if it comes at all.

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analog

He left religion and went and got his game on with 4 chicks to binge on "sin". Now he's rethinking things, re-evaluating himself, etc.

You're not dysfunctional. Don't let him talk like that. When he does, tell him that just because your opinions about sex aren't the same, doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you.

Secondly, anyone who would tell you you're dysfunctional because you've been asking for sex after a month and a half into a relationship is a person with some issues to resolve.

I'd chalk this one up to irreconcilable differences and move on to another fishie in the sea.

cj2112

The first thing that popped into my head was that he's afraid that he's going to pass on an STD to you and doesn't know how to tell you. Seriously, that was my first thought.

Aphrodite83

He just recently said the "Maybe you're sexually dysfunctional" thing to me on Saturday, and tomorrow marks 4 months into our relationship. But that probably makes it even more obvious that he has issues... haha.

Haha, no I don't think it's a hidden STD thing. He's an incredibly honest person and I know he would have told me about having one by now. Especially since we fool around, so there's a chance I would have caught it by now.

Besides, condoms are amazing things, ya know!

PredeconInferno

Just hold the phone here:

I happen to disagree whole-heartedly with the people that suggest moving on. You're telling me that a guy being reluctant to have sex with a woman after he's only known her for 4 months is worth leaving him? I think that's ridiculous. I had a fiance once, and we were very sexually active. It was fantastic. In hind sight, I wish I hadn't had sex with her (I was young, for one reason), but I don't regret it one bit - it was one of the most amazing things I've ever been able to share with a person. Does it make me deviant to want to abstain from having sex with a woman now until I know I have that connection again? It seems that some of you think so.

I find premaritel sex amorous, yes. This doesn't mean, however, that I think you're going to hell if you do it. It's a personal ideal, and I would hope my girlfriend would be willing to respect that in me. Relationships are about loyalty and trust. It's clear that he trusts you enough to stay with him despite the fact that he won't have sex with you - he seems to feel like it's not important, and it's not. It's a wonderful thing to share with someone and he's missing out by abstaining, but no sex isn't the end of the world and it's certainly not "leave him" material. Maybe he's reluctant to have sex with you because he doesn't want to risk the consequences? Maybe he's not willing to father children? In my case, I will not have PV intercourse with a woman until I'm ready to father children with her despite what my hormones tell me.

I'm not saying I agree with his methods at all. If he's not willing to have PV intercourse with you, he should be willing to, at the very least, reciprocate the "going down" as it were. Have you asked him why he won't have sex with you? I don't agree with him in that you're sexually deviant because, frankly, I know I want it most of the time.

What I'm trying to say is this: I'm fighting for him. Although I don't agree with his reasons and his methods, he's still worth dating as you pointed out. Sex shouldn't be something we seek from others, in my opinion. Reducing ourselves to such base desires dishonors both parties - by ignoring who the person is. I guess I'm the odd man out in this one, so take my words as you will. He's a good guy, clearly. I hope you can figure this out.

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Deltona Couple

First thing I have to say here is this: When one comes into an open thread forum like ours, you should be ready to hear SEVERAL different opinions on your question. SHE asked for OUR opinion, and we are giving it. so everyone should relax, and listen with open ears.

On that note, Aphrodite, My biggest concern is that he seems to have no problem having YOU perform oral sex on HIM, but when you ask for a return favour, he denies you. It seems to me from what YOU HAVE SAID, that he is in search of his true self, and is NOT ready for a relationship. Sorry, but ANYONE who is not willing to return something that is given, is denying that person a proper relationship. Sorry if this is not what you want to hear, but personally I think he is being selfish, and should be told at MINIMUM, that if he can take sexual acts from you, then he needs to be willing to return the same, or not get ANYTHING.

There is my $.02 worth....

I hope that you two can work things out. Possibly consider going to relationship counseling or something similar. Also, if he has mentioned concern of passing on an STD, then I would HIGHLY recommend you BOTH go down for testing. If he DOES have something, you can STILL catch if with manual and oral manipulation. Good luck!

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Aphrodite83

Deltona, I'm not sure if you thought the previous post was from me (I'm the original poster), but that was someone else. Sorry, I may be misunderstanding your post, but it sounded like you were confused when you said, "You asked for our opinion, and we are giving it. So relax, and listen with open ears."

Anyway... yeah, the lack of oral sex reciprocation is really starting to bug me. I told him I think it's selfish and not fair. He said he doesn't want to do it because it's "very intimate." So I said, "Then why did you let me do it to you only 4 weeks into our relationship?" And he responded, "Maybe I shouldn't have let you." So the ultimatum of, "If you don't start doing this, I'm going to stop doing it to you," is only going to backfire in my face.

Yes, I think he is definitely trying to figure out who he is and what he wants to do with his life.

And no, I don't think it's an STD thing.

ratbastid

It's performance anxiety. You nailed it when you said he thinks he's bad at it. If you were just some one-time thing, he could go ahead and do it, be bad at it, and it would be of little consequence (except to his self-esteem, but, sexually speaking, that's already shot).

He cares about you too much to have bad sex with you. It's sort of flattering. But you've got to get--from where he stands, he's completely trapped. Either you'll leave him because there's no sex, or you'll leave him because the sex is bad. Either, way he fails to satisfy you (and therefore IS a failure).

This explains the effort to put it on you with the whole "you're dysfunctional" thing, which is bogus on its face. If he can get you fixated on working on yourself about something, maybe you'll get on his no-sex page, and then the whole issue can go away and you can live the rest of your lives together in blissful celibacy.

Not that he's consciously thinking these things. I think this is going on deep in the back of his head somewhere.

The_Jazz

What I don't get (and I think you're similarly confused) is why he won't reciprocate. I'm he's getting oral from you, so you'd think he'd at least have the common courtesy to offer. Religion aside, I think this guy has some hangups. Only you can tell us if the relationship is worth trying, so you're the one that's going to have to put in the work.

Honestly, I think the penetrative sex is off the table for now, at least as far as he's concerned. It sounds like he's either not interested or so gunshy as to make it uninteresting. Consider that a long term project. However, I don't get why he'll happily receive oral and not even offer to perform it on you. Maybe you should offer to instruct him on exactly how it's best done. That's something that I've actually asked women at the beginning of the sexual part of a relationship since what works for one is almost guaranteed not to work on the next.

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abaya

Hmmm, I used to be that ex-Christian girlfriend for a LOOONG time, and didn't let guys get past 2nd base when I was still a believer. But I ended up having sex with my first non-Christian boyfriend (now husband) the first chance we got... when we were 24.

However, that doesn't mean it was an easy transition... I had been away from the fold for a few years by that point, but I was very similar to your bf in that I was still "researching" and thinking about Christianity, and wondering what my life and character would be like, without God and the church and Bible to guide me. I was (and perhaps still am) re-creating myself as an almost new person, and sex was a very important part of that developmental period.

Sexuality was one of the last holdouts for me, since it had exerted such a strong force on me throughout my teen and college years, and it took me a LONG time to finally feel okay with having pre-marital sex. Probably a good 6 months, if not longer, to just relax and not feel "wrong" in some way or another. I never called my bf "dysfunctional," however, and I kind of think that is just rude and projecting his own insecurities onto you... I would hash out everything behind that, with him, and NOT let him call you something like that again. You are totally NORMAL.

Hell, even I had to learn that sex IS a valid dealbreaker. In my previously Christian mind, sex was a sidebar to the relationship and could be taken or left... which is perhaps how your bf is thinking, if he's still got his head in the "spiritual" realm of things. People get divorced over bad sex, so I don't think it's that weird to be considering it so seriously at this point in your relationship. Sex is just as important to the relationship as any other aspect... if you're not compatible there, it's going to be difficult to sustain a long-term relationship. He might not learn that lesson until long after you break up with him, since he probably thinks you are "over-sexed" or some other such bullshit... but someday, he'll realize that you were right and normal and human, and that he was the screwed up one.

Unless he is willing to do work on his own (e.g. go to counseling, communicate more helpfully with you, NOT blame you, etc), I would seriously consider not continuing with this guy. He isn't going to change unless he sees the problem and wants to change. Right now he's making YOU the problem, which is the MOST unhelpful thing that anyone can do in a relationship.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Seaver

First off you people would NOT have the same opinion if this were a woman who was not ready for sex.

That alone is the worst part about this thread in my opinion.

He's not ready, he said he's not ready and you pressure him like a horny teenager trying to feel his first boob.

That being said, don't ever let him get away with calling you sexually dysfunctional. You're not, sex is awsome and is pivitol in relationships.

I think Abya takes the cake in this thread. Yes, sex is extremely important. Yes, you are acting like an out of control teenage boy putting the pressure on this guy who has issues. Yes, he needs some sort of counceling, if he refuses it will cause the end of the relationship later on.

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Aphrodite83

The thing about the "not being ready" thing is that he's had sex before... and with at least 2 of the girls, it was done much earlier than the 4-month mark. There was one on the 2nd date and another after a few dates. If he were still a virgin, I could understand not being ready, but he's had sex before. He has said he's "learned from his mistakes." But he didn't love the previous girls, and they didn't love him... yet he and I love each other and sex is an expression of love, something he hasn't experienced yet.

I don't understand why he would think I'd leave him if the sex were bad. I wouldn't give up everything else we have because of that... especially when you can get better if you're willing to learn. And I've told him I'm willing to teach.

As for the oral sex thing, yes I've told him every girl is different so even if he were experienced, he'd still need to ask me what I like. I've sent him links to websites that explain how to give good oral sex to a woman (they weren't pornographic - just merely instructional), but still nothing.

Aphrodite83

Deleting cause of double post

hambone

Just throwing this out there (and I don't really think it applies directly in this situation), but just to be clear: Not wanting to have sex is not necessarily a direct tie to religion. By rejecting religion or any type of faith, one does not NECESSARILY need to reject all behaviors of its followers.

I just found it interesting that its assumed since he is EX-Christian, he is all for sex out of wedlock (and yes I know he had sex with 4 girls, but as someone pointed out, he could be feeling regret for that).

Anyway, in this case, I would agree that he is mainly concerned with his performance.

Aphrodite, you say you don't understand why he would think you would leave due to bad sex. Well, that shows you do really care for him, however, I can assure you I have also seen posts on this board before in which others endorsed breaking up due to sexual incompatibility, so his aprehensiveness is not completely unfounded.

Best of luck.

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Nothing to cry over"

abaya

Does he look at porn, btw? Just wondering what his general attitude is towards sexuality.

I don't think it's shallow or "teenager"-ish to communicate your sexual needs to the man. If he can't fulfill them, then he can't fufill them. That is a really important thing to get right in a relationship, no matter what kind of religious/non-religious past you have.

From what you are saying, I think he may be having problems with sex precisely *because* he only had sex with people he didn't love. His head is seriously screwed up from the religious leftovers, and he needs to get into counseling if he is really committed to the relationship.

Hell, even if you break up with him, he's going to face the same problem over and over again until he gets himself some help. But at the moment, he's going to take you for granted (believe me, when I was a recovering Christian, there have been times when I would have been happy NEVER having sex for the rest of my life!) until you make it clear that this is a serious, mature problem, and you will leave him if he doesn't face up to his issues. Not that he has to has sex with you, but he has to at least take charge of his problem and work on it... that would show real desire to help the relationship.

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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

tecoyah

Sexual Hangups are no fun, and can destroy a relationship ( I speak from experience). My first wife was much like your man, and though she "allowed" sex, she never understood it as I did. Six years into the marrige, she submitted to her wifely duty, seriously thats what she said. We never had sex again.....ever.

Be careful, you may not be able to guide someone out of such a hangup, and I honestly believe that sometimes...you shouldn't.

Aphrodite83

No, he doesn't really look at porn. Very, very rarely (we're talking maybe a couple times a year). He thinks it's "immoral."

Abaya, yes, I have told him that he will face this with every girl. You made a good point in your first post when you said someday he will realize I was right and he was the one with a problem. If we break up, he'll go on to date a new girl and she'll most likely pressure him to have sex earlier than I did, and will be less patient over it. Eventually he'll realize how good he had it with me. That probably sounds cocky, but I believe it's quite true.

guthmund

It has very little to do with his religious upbringing, in my opinon. He's associated (what he feels are) his inadequate sack skillz with his relationships ending. Sex, or rather his inability to perform "properly" seems to have sent the girls a' running and he's trying desperately (to the point of blaming you) to avoid the same with you.

You aren't really going to able to do anything about it; it really is all up to him. Be there for him, if you can, but realize that at some point (assuming things stay status quo) you're going to have make the call on whether to walk away or not.

Edit: On further review, it seems I've poorly parroted ratbastid and abaya. So, my new advice is to read ratbastid's and abaya's posts and take them as the stone cold truth.

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Sultana

From my initial reading, I'm much more inclined to believe he has the religious issues going on, regardless of whether he's "left the fold". The OP has stated repeatedly that he has moral issues with things (porn, for example). I think he's still transitioning into a completely new way of thinking (or maybe thinking for himself, for a start!), and is trying to do "the right thing" without really establishing what is the right thing, and why it's the right thing.

It is completely unacceptable for him to call you sexually dysfunctional. I'd put the kabosh on an attitude like that *immediately*. I can see it becoming very easy for him to push his problems off onto you if you don't nip that sh*t in the bud, and I mean NOW.

Like abaya said so well, it is neither immature nor shallow to communicate your needs, whether emotional or physical, to one's partner. Please don't ever fall into that trap, silence for the sake of peace. It takes a while, but it *will* kill you inside.

Lastly, I do have a huge issue with the fact that he accepts oral from you, but it's sinful or immoral or he's *not ready* to reciprocate. That does not communicate love to me--rather it displays a very selfish and immature state of mind.

To me it sounds like he's not standing on his own, he's not his own person at this stage. It's all transitional to him right now, which is completely understandable. And I just don't see how a person in that state can make an equal partner in a relationship, regardless of if you love him, or he you.

But Love overcomes issues--or it's supposed to, eh?

Good luck, sweetie. Please do keep up updated on your progress, ok?

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At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Aphrodite83

Thank you everyone for your great responses. It is really helpful to me to get so many different opinions and viewpoints. I think what I will do is ask him to come to my therapist appointment with me this Thursday. I have been seeing her for almost 7 years now, so she knows me very well. I think he definitely needs some more perspective on this issue. And I agree, he needs to see a therapist himself. He used to see a psychiatrist, but has since stopped because it got so expensive (he doesn't have health insurance right now). He said he's thought about seeing him again, but this psychiatrist is the head of the counseling dept at his old Christian college, so I don't think discussing the pros and cons of premarital sex with this guy would be beneficial. I will suggest that he find someone else. My therapist gave me a list of places that have a sliding scale based on income, so he could go there.

Keep the advice coming, if anyone else has more. I really appreciate everyone's help with this! I will keep you all updated.

pig

all i can say aphrodite, aside from a combo of ratbastid, abaya, and seaver's posts, is that i feel your pain. i really think this sounds like a timing issue, and you're the one who has to decide whether to cut bait or not. the only thing i think you can do in this situation is collect your thoughts, and i'm guessing this forum is a part of that process for you; then go back and force him to have a nice long conversation about it. there is nothing wrong with what you want, and most guys would want that kind of girl.

just remember this: you can't go into a relationship with the expectation that someone will change in a way you desire. if you can't accept the way this guy is, right now, then i'd say you might have to let it go so he can work on finding himself.

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Sultana

Wisdom for the ages, right here!

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"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

1010011010

I forseee this guy in a few years at a Youth Group meeting telling everyone how he's a "former atheist" and how he fell into a pit of amorality and violence when he abandoned Jesus.

He doesn't have the ability to make moral choices because he's been raised to appeal to authority... a authority which he has denied. He'll either figure out a moral code for himself, or continue muddling along without a compass until he gives up and is Born Again. Lead him to a non-religious source of authority or teach him that religious texts can still have good advice even if you don't accept they're infallible.

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Seaver

I have been thinking about this since my last post, and I think I should re-write what I wrote to clarify.

What he did by calling you dysfunctional is completely unacceptable, but you must understand why. It's a defense mechanism, he treaded into a whole new world before he met you, and got burned badly. Imagine if your first 4 partners in sex told you that you were horrible, I'm sure you'd be pretty hurt as well. However, the society we live in says a man has to be awesome in bed, and can't ever give any hint of insecurity about sex at any time, he struck at you because he is given no other recourse as far as he is aware (without looking like a pussy basically).

No where did I say that you need to just shut up and wait until he is ready. Communication and sex are two very very very important parts of a relationship, if they don't work the relationship won't. However, he is still recovering. Yes he's had 4 girls before you, but he wasn't ready for them either. Just give him time, and give him some space on the issue. You two need to see a professional together as others have stated. Get the full and open communication going, and the intimacy (and sex) will follow I'm sure.

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Daemon1313

First off I hope everything works out, but the pessimist in me says it won't. That is mostly because I've seen quite a few of my friends relationships come and go because they had differing views on sex. Put religion on top of that and its a volatile mix.

My main bit of advice is to make sure he is doing something to resolve his issues. If he decides he is not willing to change, then you will need to decide if you are willing to live your life with him as is. Also, it's going to suck but, cut out all the sexual activity. It's just making it worse. You'll just have to take things into your own hands, which is why god invented the jack-rabbit. (my wife's theory is it was invented by god to make up for putting up with men anyways).

Oh and what the hell kind of answer is "very intimate" for not recipricating oral sex??

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abaya

Oh my god, I am sorry, but this little tidbit made me laugh so hard... right on, man. You are either a former evangelical or you know that world very well, because you nailed it.

Okay, meanwhile, if he really thinks porn is "immoral," then it IS about religion... not just sex. He's coming down from some HARD CORE evangelical brainwashing, and I really don't know if you want to be in the middle of that. For me, I had sex about 4 years after I started cleaning that shit out of my head... and even then it was rough going. He's going to need a lot more time, and a lot more bad experience with women, before he starts to change. Don't wait for that, hon. You deserve to be happy and feel sexy NOW.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Infinite_Loser

I'm not surprised by some of the responses here...

Calling his views 'skewed' because you don't agree with them is stupid, as one could easily say that your views are the ones that are skewed. If he doesn't want to have sex with you then he isn't obligated to; You can either respect his decision to wait until marriage or you can decide to move on. Of course, if you truly love him as you say you do, then the choice should be a no-brainer. Whatever happened to love being the basis of a relationship? Any relationship based primarily on sex is doomed to failure.

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Sultana

If you are going to be in the same relationship, it's not unrealistic to want to have the same views on important topics. In fact, it's *commendable*

No where does the OP say that she wants the relationship to be based on sex.

Did you read the whole thread? There's a lot more going on here.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Infinite_Loser

Yes, I read the entire thread.

If he doesn't want to have sex with her, then he isn't obligated to do so. If he says he's not ready to have sex with her, then it's really as simple as that. She can either respect his decision to wait or she can move on.

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

pig

no shit il, and if some people think his views, from within a community he is choosing to put himself in (i.e. the evil heathen goatfooted fuckers), are skewed...then they are skewed...its inherent in the statement that that means relative to the normal views of the secular atheist/agnostic, if you ask me. "skewed" and "wrong" aren't the same thing. but you're dead on with the "she can choose" bit, and i think a lot of the posters here have basically said that. no one said he had to fuck her; but they are saying that if he doesn't want to fuck her, but she wants to be fucked, then there's a pickle.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Sultana

There is no pickle! No pickle for you!

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"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

abaya

Yep, real simple. Too bad the dude seems to have no problem receiving oral sex... hmm, guess those blow jobs aren't too immoral for him, compared to everything else.

But giving oral sex to his gf, or putting his penis inside her, or doing anything that would make his gf physically happy... well shit, that's his inalienable right to withhold that kind of affection, because that's downright immoral! Shame on the girl for asking him to do such immoral things.

... now get back to that BJ honey, that doesn't bother me a bit...

/note sarcasm

Btw, who the hell said ANYTHING remotely like this? Quotes, please?

The closest that anyone said to that (and with entirely different meaning than you connote) was more like, "Any relationship WITHOUT sex, when one person wants it and the other one doesn't, for an extended period of time, is probably not going to succeed." And if you disagree with that, then... well, you've got one hell of a *different* kind of marriage/relationship going on.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Slims

You and he may have gone into this relationship with two opposing ideas of what a fulfilling relationship entails. If you honestly feel sex is a part of a healthy relationship (lord knows I do) and he simply won't bend then you unfortunately probably have to move on.

Have you ever considered that his religious 'belief's' may be a good excuse for his lack of desire to actually have sex?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

Infinite_Loser

Maybe I'm the only who read this bit:

That statement coupled with the fact that she doesn't do it to him very often shows that not only is he not into oral sex as you might like to believe but also that he does feel guilty where it's concerned.

I strongly believe that people only read what they want to read.

You know, it's rather easy to quote one sentence and take it out of context. I do believe I said (Twice now) that if she loved her boyfriend as much as she said she did, that she would respect his decision to wait until marriage. If she chooses not to wait and continues to pressure her boyfriend into doing something he doesn't want to do, then that shows just how much she 'cares' about her boyfriend in relation to her wants and desires.

And, you know, I can't help but shake the feeling that some of you guys (And gals) responses would be different if this were a guy talking about his girlfriend not being ready to have sex.

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.