No sex please, we're daddy's little girls (news link) - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

mixedmedia · 03-28-2007, 05:58 PM

First this made me gag, then it made me laugh. A two for one...

And not only that, it's a crock of shit ritual that don't mean a goddamned thing...or maybe that's just me talking shit after a couple glasses of wine.

Purity is so overrated.

The_Jazz · 03-29-2007, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Purity is so overrated.

And with 4 simple words, the arguement is summed up.

Willravel · 03-29-2007, 07:41 AM

Sex is in the eye of the beholder (owe, my eye!).

Some people consider it the end of all spirituality, some consider it a great raunchy way to spend a Saturday night. It's just like anything in life, you have to discover it's meaning to you.

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hektore

Well, I suppose the line for me falls in how I define raising your child. Raising your child, to me is the part where you mold the type of person they are going to be, what values they're going to have ect. I believe there should be intervention in cases of neglect or abuse, because you aren't raising your child. As far as what constitutes abuse, I suppose that is a case by case problem.

In this case, I don't think they are abusing their daughters, just indoctrinating them into a different value system then the one that I function in. I guess it boils down to myself failing to see that this process is inherently harmful. The potential exists, but there also exists a great potential that these girls will not suffer in any way. People live long happy lives all over the globe as fundamental Christians; reasonable people live this life. For myself, it's weird, it's not the best parenting strategy, but just because it doesn't work for me doesn't mean it doesn't work well for other people. Maybe I'm just too much of a relativist.

Ultimately, I believe there will come a point in these girls lives when they realize that they do not have to adopt the same belief system as their parents, they are free to make their own choices and are responsible to do so. That could only be because that's what happened to me, and I chose a different path than many of those in my family would have chosen for me. I do not feel I was harmed in any way by a similar value system, in a way I believe I benefited because it enabled me to avoid things I was not mature enough to handle. I also benefited from a solid sexual education and parents who didn't use religion as an tool to avoid important issues because they should not have come up anyway. It's unfortunate that there won't be the same education for many of these girls.

Fundamentalist Christians dont have a disease, they are raising their children in what they believe is the right way. Although I dont agree with some of their methods, I respect them for taking an ongoing interest in the well being of their children. Which is more than I can say for other 'groups' who spoil their children, let them run wild, explore their sexuality, experiment with drugs, and then act surprised when their 14 year old daughter is pregnant and addicted to crack.

What I find creepy are some of the responses in this thread. I wonder how many actually have children??? Its easy to judge when you have no frame of reference.

pig · 03-29-2007, 09:14 AM

and you know mixed, i think i like you more and more as time goes by.

dave: which "groups" are you talking about? some den of unwashed acid-dropping turtle-fucking profligates and whores? i don't know, i'm down in the middle of the bible belt, and i've run across my share of just-out-of-highschool-singing-in-the-choir girls, daddy is a deacon, mommy plays the organ....and she's dropping adderol and taking on group sex. not to mention little old me. i find the ceremonial nature of this creepy, and the passing of oaths, the misogynistic nature, etc. someone wants to raise their kids traditionally, i could give less than a shit. but this is just fucked up. i'd be just as creeped out if some newage hippy group had a ceremony where they celebrated their daughter's first period by having her promise to all respect her sexual nature and to be open minded and sexually exhuberant throughout her life. i don't have any problem with that philosophy either, but you don't need the ceremony, and it certainly doesn't need to seem a mock up of marriage.

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 09:23 AM

Take your pick of 'groups', there are plenty to go around. As I said before I don't think the oath is a wise practice, but they're not my children either. Plenty of adults take oaths in churches then break them a few years later, so I'd have to say its better to just say yes or no, than take an oath.

mixedmedia · 03-29-2007, 09:27 AM

I'm interested to know which "groups" he's talking about, too.

Willravel · 03-29-2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

Take your pick of 'groups', there are plenty to go around.

I'm kidna curious about this, too. Can you name names? Or is this a theoretical exercise?

pig · 03-29-2007, 09:40 AM

ok dave: i'll get the ball rolling. how about the boy scouts? they send their kids out in the wilderness for a weekend alone with older men. no cell phones, no contact.

my old church group (methodist youth foundation) used to throw church retreats. the older kids always brought marajuana and alcohol and fucked their brains out at night.

the youth brigade for oral sex?

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 10:10 AM

The names arent important. The point I was trying to get across was that at least Christian Fundamentalists take an ongoing interst in their children while others do not. I may not agree with their methods but I respect them for trying to do the right thing. Wait, I already said that..........guess you missed that.

Willravel · 03-29-2007, 10:28 AM

We read it, but you are trying to move attention from the fundamentalists elsewhere to what you've supposed are worse groups. Who are they, and how are they worse? I'm sure you'd be at least inquisitive if I were to take attention away from an atheist group by making a vague statement about Christian 'groups' without any evidence.

The_Jazz · 03-29-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

The names arent important. The point I was trying to get across was that at least Christian Fundamentalists take an ongoing interst in their children while others do not. I may not agree with their methods but I respect them for trying to do the right thing. Wait, I already said that..........guess you missed that.

As with anything else, there are degrees here. Not ALL Christian Fundamentalists take an ongoing interest in their children. There are lots of counter-examples, many of whom are members of this board. Clearly the reverse is true as well, again as demonstrated by membership.

I don't think that anyone here has criticized the basic idea of parental interest inherent in this kind of ceremony. What I think people are being critical of is the trappings of the ceremony itself and is something that DaveMatrix has already conceded is problematic.

As far as the "other groups" comment, I ask DaveMatrix as well as everyone else to please point out a large group complete free the possibility of teen pregnancy and/or drug addiction. In my mind such a thing doesn't exist, especially since results vary from child to child in individual families. In other words, your results may vary.

pig · 03-29-2007, 10:39 AM

no, you're talking about theoretical constructs. my opinion. i would wager these "people" are like any other "group." some of them take an ongoing interest in the their kids...but some of them do this ceremony for show, some of them do it to fit in with their friends, some of them do it because they are depressed and need this kind of shit to fill their lives, some of them do it to fit into their social groups. just like any other group. they're people.

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

no, you're talking about theoretical constructs. my opinion. i would wager these "people" are like any other "group." some of them take an ongoing interest in the their kids...but some of them do this ceremony for show, some of them do it to fit in with their friends, some of them do it because they are depressed and need this kind of shit to fill their lives, some of them do it to fit into their social groups. just like any other group. they're people.

All people, or groups, may experience problems when raising their children, drug abuse and teen pregnancy are not limited to any group. Since teenagers often make impulsive, rash decisions based on emotion and hormones, a structured home with rules and discipline can help to avoid problems. Giving teenagers free reign to explore their sexuality, or any other thing doesn't seem very responsible.

Most people wouldn't home school their children, they're more than happy to get them out of the house for 8 hours a day. The FC's are more than happy to spend as much time as necessary to raise their children according to their beliefs. I personally don't think this makes for a very well rounded individual. They lead a secluded life, then are thrust into the real world as adults. Once again, they're not my children though.....

How many of you actually have children???

pig · 03-29-2007, 11:21 AM

dave,

based only on what i know about the posters here, and looking back at this thread, i would conservatively put it at about a 50/50 mix of those with children, and those without.

i know will, jazz, mixed, bor, charlatan and i think kurty are parents.

oFia · 03-29-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

The names arent important. The point I was trying to get across was that at least Christian Fundamentalists take an ongoing interst in their children while others do not. I may not agree with their methods but I respect them for trying to do the right thing. Wait, I already said that..........guess you missed that.

Wow! That's one hellavu blanket statement! Only Christian Fundamentalists take an ongoing interest in their children?

I think the problem we've been discussing is that the "right thing" is so badly warped it's worse.

mixedmedia · 03-29-2007, 11:44 AM

I have three children. All girls. 20, 18 and 8.

I'll be happy to answer any questions about their habits and upbringing.

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oFia

Wow! That's one hellavu blanket statement! Only Christian Fundamentalists take an ongoing interest in their children?

I think the problem we've been discussing is that the "right thing" is so badly warped it's worse.

Now you're taking what I said out of context. I didn't say all other people, now did I??? I've also said that I don't agree with the the whole idea of taking vows. The 'right thing' obviously depends on who you are, and what your beliefs are. The CF's believe what they are doing is right, according to their beliefs. I don't agree with them but.......never mind, I'm repeating myself again, but nobody seems to hear anyway.

Bill O'Rights · 03-29-2007, 11:50 AM

I have two kids. A 19 year old daughter, and a 4 year old son.

I, also, will be happy to answer any questions about their habits and upbringing.

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 11:52 AM

This isnt 20 questions, its a message board. If you have an opinion then please state it.

Willravel · 03-29-2007, 12:15 PM

I guess the question would be, would I rather have uninvolved parents, or parents who try to control my libido? The former, please.

Bill O'Rights · 03-29-2007, 12:19 PM

A.) I'm perfectly aware that this is a message board. I help to moderate it.

B.) I believe, unless I'm very much mistaken, that I have voiced my opinion.

C.) I'm responding to a question that you asked. Twice, as a matter of fact.

The_Jazz · 03-29-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

This isnt 20 questions, its a message board. If you have an opinion then please state it.

DaveMatrix - you asked a question. People are answering it. Do you need me to point out in message #54 where you asked it? Your scroll button works as well as mine, so I doubt it.

You've made a bold statement here: that some nameless groups whose only defining characteristic seems to be that they aren't Fundamentalist Christians allow their children to basically ruin their own lives. We've asked which groups your referring to; you've refused, saying it's irrelevant.

I'll accept that answer at face value and move on.

As far as the misinterpretation of this message goes, I think you should understand how easy it was to make, especially with how you phrased it originally. Again, you're using very broad brush strokes to paint what could be very large groups of people so it's difficult for anyone to tell what you're actually talking about since you're not willing to define your terms. I happen to agree that some of the fundamentalists are doing what they think is the right thing, but I have to wonder why they think including all of these creepy marriage metaphors is necessary. I also think that other fundamentalists involved in this movement may have ulterior motives. Not necessarily nefarrious ulterior motives, though.

Willravel · 03-29-2007, 12:22 PM

D) BOR has a really hot avatar. Seriously, it's almost distracting.

Wait a second. The blanket statement was made, we asked for clarification, then you said we misunderstood you? That's why we were asking for clarification, which you still haven't provided.

mixedmedia · 03-29-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

I guess the question would be, would I rather have uninvolved parents, or parents who try to control my libido? The former, please.

Whatever happened to the happy medium?

I swear to god (sic), it seems that best anyone can do anymore to defend something extreme is to bring up the other extreme.

Doesn't make for very compelling arguments.

note: this is not directed at willravel...just bouncing off his post.

Willravel · 03-29-2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Whatever happened to the happy medium?

Oh I agree with you completely, I was trying to address context by making things black and white for a moment. I think that a parent should have more than a passing interest in their children, and they should respect those children to make their own healthy, informed decision about sexuality when they start puberty.

Hektore · 03-29-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

I swear to god (sic), it seems that best anyone can do anymore to defend something extreme is to bring up the other extreme.

Or they could try to make the point that it isn't extreme, just different than the way you[general] think it should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Oh I agree with you completely, I was trying to address context by making things black and white for a moment. I think that a parent should have more than a passing interest in their children, and they should respect those children to make their own healthy, informed decision about sexuality when they start puberty.

I'm going to have to disagree because while it may be true that when some children begin puberty they can make "healthy, informed" decisions, I seriously doubt this is more than a small minority. Parents occasionally need to take control to keep children from really hurting themselves. It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't respect the child's decision, but they are children, even when they start puberty.

mixedmedia · 03-29-2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Oh I agree with you completely, I was trying to address context by making things black and white for a moment. I think that a parent should have more than a passing interest in their children, and they should respect those children to make their own healthy, informed decision about sexuality when they start puberty.

I didn't think you wouldn't agree...that's why I put that little disclaimer down there.

To provide an adequate defense to this ritual, I think one needs more than just, "well, it's better than letting your kids run wild, snort heroin and get knocked up at 14!"

Although, to be fair, a few others on this thread have done more than that.

Guess, I'm just jibin' DaveMatrix a little bit. Hi, Dave

Especially, since he seems to be playing the devil's advocate here and not particularly in support of the ritual.

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 12:45 PM

As I've said before, I wonder how people can judge others when they have no frame of reference, thus the question about children. So great, you have children, a frame of reference and you aren't going by on your own childhood to argue a point, that you know nothing about.

I'm not sure exactly whay you want, stats on teen preganancy or drug abuse??? The net is full of stats, feel free. You want the name of a group that has these problems??? They all do...whats your point???

mixedmedia · 03-29-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hektore

Or they could try to make the point that it isn't extreme, just different than the way you[general] think it should be.

Excellent point, thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hektore

I'm going to have to disagree because while it may be true that when some children begin puberty they can make "healthy, informed" decisions, I seriously doubt this is more than a small minority. Parents occasionally need to take control to keep children from really hurting themselves, that doesn't necessarily mean they don't respect the child's decision, but they are children, even when they start puberty.

True. I think as a parent you equip your children as well as you can to make good decisions. Whether you consider that equipment to be spiritual or practical, in the end, the decisions are up to the children. Your control only goes so far as your child's ability to make good decisions, which is very often irrelevant to what you've taught them depending on their impulses and the situations they find themselves in.

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

I didn't think you wouldn't agree...that's why I put that little disclaimer down there.

To provide an adequate defense to this ritual, I think one needs more than just, "well, it's better than letting your kids run wild, snort heroin and get knocked up at 14!"

Although, to be fair, a few others on this thread have done more than that.

Guess, I'm just jibin' DaveMatrix a little bit. Hi, Dave

Especially, since he seems to be playing the devil's advocate here and not particularly in support of the ritual.

Yes, it would seem that I'm an individual, and not likely to follow the group mentality.....oh well, thats just me.

oFia · 03-29-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

Now you're taking what I said out of context. I didn't say all other people, now did I??? I've also said that I don't agree with the the whole idea of taking vows. The 'right thing' obviously depends on who you are, and what your beliefs are. The CF's believe what they are doing is right, according to their beliefs. I don't agree with them but.......never mind, I'm repeating myself again, but nobody seems to hear anyway.

I don't think I took anything out of context. Your statement didn't rely on anything further - I took it to mean that's all you were saying. And it seems to me that you were saying all other people since you only mentioned Fundamentalist Christians. *shrug* And I started out by saying that the choice of religion isn't the question here. Maybe I missed something.

The_Jazz · 03-29-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

You want the name of a group that has these problems??? They all do...whats your point???

If "all" includes Fundamentalist Christians, the last 25 or so posts in this thread have been an exercise in futility. You agree with us; we agree with you. Note: that's not what you said earlier (post #54).

Bill O'Rights · 03-29-2007, 01:05 PM

So, there are no specific "groups" that let their children run wild, explore their sexuality, experiment with drugs. It's isolated to an "individual" family choice.

Right?

Look...I applaud the fundamentalist evangelical (whatever label you want to attach) Christian's active approach in the upbringing of their children. It's to be commended. I do, however, find the methodology of it to be a little...distubing, at best.

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

So, there are no specific "groups" that let their children run wild, explore their sexuality, experiment with drugs. It's isolated to an "individual" family choice.

Right?

Look...I applaud the fundamentalist evangelical (whatever label you want to attach) Christian's active approach in the upbringing of their children. It's to be commended. I do, however, find the methodology of it to be a little...distubing, at best.

Strange as this may seem, I agree. Its not the approach I followed when raising my daughter, but if that's what works for them, more power to em. Its hard enough to raise teenagers and every ones approach may be different, but whatever works for you. Doing something, seems much better than doing nothing. What I find really strange is that 20 members in a row all agree how weird this practice is and include pedophilia and patriarchal domination of the vagina. I just don't see this. I see parents trying to do the best the can with what they have.

mixedmedia · 03-29-2007, 02:35 PM

Well, I don't claim it is pedophilic, but it is attempted patriarchal domination of the vagina. Definitively.

DaveOrion · 03-29-2007, 03:37 PM

You are completely entitled to your opinion and I can understand how you could view that as such. I will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I may be predisposed to argue the virtues of constraint when teenagers are involved. A dear friend of mine has a 20 year old daughter who is soon to be giving birth to her second child. This baby is underweight for its age, and will soon be delivered caesarean because the first child was. I know the mother has experimented with numerous drugs and has no maternal instinct because of her drug use. She was spoiled as a child, given everything she wanted, never worked a day in her life, and mommy paid her way, and still is, for everything. The father of the first child is a bum, wont work or support the child in any way. He's black, she's white, which will only make things harder on the child, because the father is absolutely positive that all white people are satan, and has convinced the mother that this is so (although she is white, strange huh???)Both of her parents worked and spent little time with her, and I suppose that phsycologically speaking she is looking for some type of male acceptance or love, which she never received from her father. She doesn't even know who the father of the baby is, it could be one of many. Sorry for the rant, it may help you understand my position.......or not. Oh well, at least I tried to explain. Sorry for the syntax and other errors, I'm not much on proof reading.

Charlatan · 03-30-2007, 05:26 AM

I don't think anyone here is against advocating constraint of teenage sexuality per se. I think most here would agree that education and communication are much better tools than a "purity ceremony".

I can even agree that these people, as misguided as I believe them to be in their execution, think they are doing the right thing by their daughters.

To strip it down to its essence this is abstinence vs. education. In my mind, abstinence is an unreasonable goal when you are dealing with teenagers. Education and communication are the key (depending on your point of view that educational component can also include a big dose of, "having sex before age 'X' is a bad idea).

Two more points:

1) The key, as always, is balance. Too much control of kids is just as bad as too little. Both ways lead to rebelliousness.
2) The subtext of my belief in education and communication is involvement and interaction with my kids. It may be suggested that one needs to home school and spend every waking minute with your kids, but I would argue there is more than one way to raise a kid.

bluedot · 03-30-2007, 07:36 PM

1,400 purity balls....
Its not like this is sweeping the nation.

Furthermore, at age 11 most girls (especially in conservative homes) still think boys have cooties, so of course they won't mind going to a ball and promising they will never have sex.. after at that age sex is gross.

I wonder how many of the dads keep their side of the deal.

Lady Sage · 03-30-2007, 07:50 PM

What a great way to allow people to practice breaking vows!

If they can break them at such a young age it makes marriage vows so much easier to ignore!

(The comments above were strictly facetious and not meant to offend, please laugh heartily and smile.)

03-28-2007, 05:58 PM	#41 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	First this made me gag, then it made me laugh. A two for one... And not only that, it's a crock of shit ritual that don't mean a goddamned thing...or maybe that's just me talking shit after a couple glasses of wine. Purity is so overrated. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

03-29-2007, 09:14 AM	#45 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	and you know mixed, i think i like you more and more as time goes by. dave: which "groups" are you talking about? some den of unwashed acid-dropping turtle-fucking profligates and whores? i don't know, i'm down in the middle of the bible belt, and i've run across my share of just-out-of-highschool-singing-in-the-choir girls, daddy is a deacon, mommy plays the organ....and she's dropping adderol and taking on group sex. not to mention little old me. i find the ceremonial nature of this creepy, and the passing of oaths, the misogynistic nature, etc. someone wants to raise their kids traditionally, i could give less than a shit. but this is just fucked up. i'd be just as creeped out if some newage hippy group had a ceremony where they celebrated their daughter's first period by having her promise to all respect her sexual nature and to be open minded and sexually exhuberant throughout her life. i don't have any problem with that philosophy either, but you don't need the ceremony, and it certainly doesn't need to seem a mock up of marriage. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

03-29-2007, 09:23 AM	#46 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	Take your pick of 'groups', there are plenty to go around. As I said before I don't think the oath is a wise practice, but they're not my children either. Plenty of adults take oaths in churches then break them a few years later, so I'd have to say its better to just say yes or no, than take an oath. __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

03-29-2007, 09:27 AM	#47 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I'm interested to know which "groups" he's talking about, too. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

03-29-2007, 09:40 AM	#49 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	ok dave: i'll get the ball rolling. how about the boy scouts? they send their kids out in the wilderness for a weekend alone with older men. no cell phones, no contact. my old church group (methodist youth foundation) used to throw church retreats. the older kids always brought marajuana and alcohol and fucked their brains out at night. the youth brigade for oral sex? __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

03-29-2007, 07:41 AM	#43 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Sex is in the eye of the beholder (owe, my eye!). Some people consider it the end of all spirituality, some consider it a great raunchy way to spend a Saturday night. It's just like anything in life, you have to discover it's meaning to you.

03-29-2007, 10:10 AM	#50 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	The names arent important. The point I was trying to get across was that at least Christian Fundamentalists take an ongoing interst in their children while others do not. I may not agree with their methods but I respect them for trying to do the right thing. Wait, I already said that..........guess you missed that. __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

03-29-2007, 10:28 AM	#51 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	We read it, but you are trying to move attention from the fundamentalists elsewhere to what you've supposed are worse groups. Who are they, and how are they worse? I'm sure you'd be at least inquisitive if I were to take attention away from an atheist group by making a vague statement about Christian 'groups' without any evidence.

03-29-2007, 10:39 AM	#53 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	no, you're talking about theoretical constructs. my opinion. i would wager these "people" are like any other "group." some of them take an ongoing interest in the their kids...but some of them do this ceremony for show, some of them do it to fit in with their friends, some of them do it because they are depressed and need this kind of shit to fill their lives, some of them do it to fit into their social groups. just like any other group. they're people. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

03-29-2007, 11:21 AM	#55 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	dave, based only on what i know about the posters here, and looking back at this thread, i would conservatively put it at about a 50/50 mix of those with children, and those without. i know will, jazz, mixed, bor, charlatan and i think kurty are parents. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

03-29-2007, 11:44 AM	#57 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I have three children. All girls. 20, 18 and 8. I'll be happy to answer any questions about their habits and upbringing. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

03-29-2007, 11:50 AM	#59 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	I have two kids. A 19 year old daughter, and a 4 year old son. I, also, will be happy to answer any questions about their habits and upbringing. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

03-29-2007, 11:52 AM	#60 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	This isnt 20 questions, its a message board. If you have an opinion then please state it. __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

03-29-2007, 12:15 PM	#61 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I guess the question would be, would I rather have uninvolved parents, or parents who try to control my libido? The former, please.

03-29-2007, 12:19 PM	#62 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	A.) I'm perfectly aware that this is a message board. I help to moderate it. B.) I believe, unless I'm very much mistaken, that I have voiced my opinion. C.) I'm responding to a question that you asked. Twice, as a matter of fact. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

03-29-2007, 12:22 PM	#64 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	D) BOR has a really hot avatar. Seriously, it's almost distracting. Wait a second. The blanket statement was made, we asked for clarification, then you said we misunderstood you? That's why we were asking for clarification, which you still haven't provided.

03-29-2007, 12:45 PM	#69 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	As I've said before, I wonder how people can judge others when they have no frame of reference, thus the question about children. So great, you have children, a frame of reference and you aren't going by on your own childhood to argue a point, that you know nothing about. I'm not sure exactly whay you want, stats on teen preganancy or drug abuse??? The net is full of stats, feel free. You want the name of a group that has these problems??? They all do...whats your point??? __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

03-29-2007, 01:05 PM	#74 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	So, there are no specific "groups" that let their children run wild, explore their sexuality, experiment with drugs. It's isolated to an "individual" family choice. Right? Look...I applaud the fundamentalist evangelical (whatever label you want to attach) Christian's active approach in the upbringing of their children. It's to be commended. I do, however, find the methodology of it to be a little...distubing, at best. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

03-29-2007, 02:35 PM	#76 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	Well, I don't claim it is pedophilic, but it is attempted patriarchal domination of the vagina. Definitively. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

03-29-2007, 03:37 PM	#77 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	You are completely entitled to your opinion and I can understand how you could view that as such. I will have to agree to disagree on this one. I may be predisposed to argue the virtues of constraint when teenagers are involved. A dear friend of mine has a 20 year old daughter who is soon to be giving birth to her second child. This baby is underweight for its age, and will soon be delivered caesarean because the first child was. I know the mother has experimented with numerous drugs and has no maternal instinct because of her drug use. She was spoiled as a child, given everything she wanted, never worked a day in her life, and mommy paid her way, and still is, for everything. The father of the first child is a bum, wont work or support the child in any way. He's black, she's white, which will only make things harder on the child, because the father is absolutely positive that all white people are satan, and has convinced the mother that this is so (although she is white, strange huh???)Both of her parents worked and spent little time with her, and I suppose that phsycologically speaking she is looking for some type of male acceptance or love, which she never received from her father. She doesn't even know who the father of the baby is, it could be one of many. Sorry for the rant, it may help you understand my position.......or not. Oh well, at least I tried to explain. Sorry for the syntax and other errors, I'm not much on proof reading. __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

03-30-2007, 05:26 AM	#78 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I don't think anyone here is against advocating constraint of teenage sexuality per se. I think most here would agree that education and communication are much better tools than a "purity ceremony". I can even agree that these people, as misguided as I believe them to be in their execution, think they are doing the right thing by their daughters. To strip it down to its essence this is abstinence vs. education. In my mind, abstinence is an unreasonable goal when you are dealing with teenagers. Education and communication are the key (depending on your point of view that educational component can also include a big dose of, "having sex before age 'X' is a bad idea). Two more points: 1) The key, as always, is balance. Too much control of kids is just as bad as too little. Both ways lead to rebelliousness. 2) The subtext of my belief in education and communication is involvement and interaction with my kids. It may be suggested that one needs to home school and spend every waking minute with your kids, but I would argue there is more than one way to raise a kid. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke Last edited by Charlatan; 03-30-2007 at 08:09 AM..

03-30-2007, 07:36 PM	#79 (permalink)
bluedot Upright	1,400 purity balls.... Its not like this is sweeping the nation. Furthermore, at age 11 most girls (especially in conservative homes) still think boys have cooties, so of course they won't mind going to a ball and promising they will never have sex.. after at that age sex is gross. I wonder how many of the dads keep their side of the deal.

03-30-2007, 07:50 PM	#80 (permalink)
Lady Sage Mistress of Mayhem Location: Canton, Ohio	What a great way to allow people to practice breaking vows! If they can break them at such a young age it makes marriage vows so much easier to ignore! (The comments above were strictly facetious and not meant to offend, please laugh heartily and smile.) __________________ If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.