Mantus

Indeed

I think the reason why relationships are so fucked up nowadays is because people take the concept of social and lawful equality too far. There are inherit biological and instinctive roles that men and women are born to play. It has nothing to do with power or control. It has nothing to do with women being capable or being able to make decisions. Simply, there is something inside a woman that makes her feel comfortable when a man can take responsibility...when a man has the confidence to lead and she can trust him.

The decision is her own...in a way. It's a mutual effort. It takes two. The man cannot simply be the facilitator nor can the woman be a mere recipient.

Equality often carries the connotation of “sameness” nowadays. We are very different biologically, instinctively and emotionally. If equality means love and respect in the then yes, we should be equal but if you mean that a woman should try to play a man’s role…then no, I disagree.

That sounds lovely Abaya. It's actually a good example of how I feel about all this. You husband was confident enough to ask. He made you feel good about the process of exploration. It reminds me of my first time dancing salsa. I told my partner, who was new as well, that this will be an adventure into something new and we are both going to have fun and laugh about it. So neither of us were nervous and we had allot of fun despite stepping on each other’s feet allot.

I believe the way I worded my post made you believe that I used “leading” in the context of having the man do whatever he wants. This isn’t the case at all...unless ofcourse that's part of the fantasy. Leadership is a great responsibility.

jerseyboy

You are so young, you just need to be patient there is plenty of time for things to happen. If you truly love this girl and it is as deep and unexplainable as you say then the intimacy you crave shouldnt be sex it should just be being with her. Lets face it, the first time you have sex, it probably wont be a great experience. She'll most likely be in some sort of discomfort and you wont last too long, hardly the intimate and truly special occasion you are looking forward to. I'd just drop trying to pressure her into it, and let it just happen. When she is ready she'll make it clear.

mixedmedia

I don't think it's so much that men and women have forgotten their traditional roles as it is that life has changed so much that those roles are largely obsolete in the context of modern living. There are so many more roles to play and decisions to make that it takes two people fully involved to negotiate a day to day existence. Therefore that traditional reliance on the man to "take charge" (which has always been somewhat of an indulgent myth anyway) is being bred out of us. It's evolutionary. Myself, for the last two years I've been a single parent who is by necessity filling all the roles and has never once thought to myself, boy I sure would like a man to come in and take charge so I don't have to worry myself with all these problems. What I have thought is "I wish I had some help!"

And as for the dominant/submissive roles as they pertain to sexual relations, for me, they are two uniquely independent arenas. In life, it doesn't exist, there are no such roles. In the bedroom, it is theater, make believe - perhaps fulfilling some primal need to hearken back to the hunter/gatherer days when there really were such unique male/female roles played out in everyday life, but of no significance to my own practical needs on a daily basis.

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Mantus

Mixedmedia,

I totally agree with you.

EXACTLY. While our social roles are being integrated our sexual roles remain very much the same and it’s something that men need to be aware off because if they cater to social needs…

…in order to be accepted into a relationship; the sexual base for that relationship will be very weak.

GK.12.3

abaya, I completely agree with you. In fact, she was the one that found me and made the first move. That was a big turn-on for me because for once, the socially accepted views of "He wants to date me because he wants to get into my pants" ideal wouldn't apply. In a way, she was/is a leader and I sure do like that!

Wow, well said! You are right, maybe oral sex is a better way of us expressing intimacy after all. The rest will happen, the same way this happened. Right time for everything I guess...

Thanks everyone for making this into such an interesting and informative thread. Learned a lot and I'm sure others will when it enters the TFP archives
-GK

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In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on.

Cus' you'll have bad times, but that'll always wake you up to the good stuff you weren't paying attention to...
-Steve Jobs

abaya

Cool. Everyone has their own take on gender roles, but I for one like to live outside of them as much as possible. I have a feeling that you and she will, on yours and her own time, figure out how to start having sex, who will initiate it, etc. Let us know how it goes. But for the most part... just enjoy where you're at, and grow accordingly.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Sharon

I like to break the rules on gender roles all the time. HOWEVER, I do still generally like to be dominated and not the one controlling things in the bedroom and affairs of romance. I guess I'm still traditional that way.