Ruse

I'm really not sure to start with this, so I guess I'll just jump in..

A week ago, my girlfriend and I celebrated four years of being together ( We were high school sweet hearts and now are going to college together - both in our 20's ). Unfortunately, for the majority of the past year and a half I've been very unsatisfied with our love life ( Which I've been telling her for that year and a half - I've had the feeling that nothing has changed but over and over again, she tells me that she is trying. ) and recently we have been fighting a lot ( About the things we need to work on in the relationship - Communication, my negative attitude, removing pressure from the relationship, love life, etc. ). After fighting, it was decided that it was time for a short "break" ( Which lasted all of a day ) and now we're going through the same conversations again...

Throughout the relationship, every time I brought up our love life, she has made it out to be insignificant. Honestly, I'm not trying to base the entire relationship around sex.. it was just the only thing really missing for me. I told her those words almost exactly but I don’t know what to do now - still, nothing is being done. What makes it worse for me is that I've had no problem working on other aspects of our relationship that she felt were needed ( I have been actively trying to do things for her within the relationship - be more open to talking and spending more time together ) but when it came to my needs and concerns, I've always felt that my requests fell on deaf ears... which is possibly why we have the communication problem to begin with.

Now I think we're down to about 2-3 times a month on a good month. When it does happen, she always seems reluctant or wants to just get it over with and only wants to stay in one position - missionary. As I'm sure some of you can imagine, the idea of making love to someone who is reluctant is an instant turn-off. At this point, I have no idea what to do... I've been seriously wondering if the relationship was even worth it.

Any ideas?



I just want to say thank you for anyone that took the time to read this and/or comment on it. I really do appreciate it.

The_Jazz

So exactly what's your problem? Frequency? Reluctance? Both? Something else? As I read it, the usual recommendation - "keep communicating" - seems to already be in force, so I don't know what else you can do if she's not willing to change.

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"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

ratbastid

In my experience (and I'm in a 16-year relationship, married for 11, so I'm not just some guy on the street about this), the sexual arena is where other issues in the relationship get played out. I know everything else seems fine--and it may be that everything really is fine for you. But consider that maybe what's happening (or not) in bed is a symptom of other things, and it's really not about the sex so much. Other worries, other frustrations, other resentments. If not for you, then for her.

Kaliena

I'm with Jazz on this one: what exactly are you looking for to start with?

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pig

listen to that ^^^.

has this always been a problem, or did it set in a year and a half ago? do you know if she has any negative experiences with her sexuality, or if she's embarrassed to express herself? in short, why do you think this problem has occurred?

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james t kirk

I think blahblah454 had a similar problem in one of his threads

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=110242

My advice to you is the same as it was to him. Either you accept it or you get out. Odds of her changing are just about zero.

My advice would be to cut your losses and get the hell out sooner rather than later. There are LOTS of very horny women out there who have few inhibitions and will rock your world in other ways as well.

You seem like a decent guy and like most men, we tend to be loyal to our women and breaking up with them after a length of time is usually incredibly difficult (though we as males will play bury the salami if given the opportunity). Contrast this behaviour to women however. Women will dump a guy for far less grief than you are experiencing and not give it a second thought. Far more self serving than any man. It's time to act like a woman and look out for yourself.

Carno

Wow, that is a pretty bleak outlook on women... not one that I agree with at all. And frankly that's not true about men either.

Anyways, I'm not sure what I would do in your position. If you've talked about it with her and still nothing changes, then maybe you should be thinking about ending the relationship. Staying in that relationship, if nothing changes, will only lead to resentment. Maybe if you sit her down and let her know just how big of a deal this problem is for you she will realize that it is not insignificant..

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little_tippler

Well, like everyone keeps saying a lot, communication is key.

My main question is: Do you know why she is reluctant? Do you really? Because you haven't told us and at least for me, I can't even begin to understand why the two of you have this problem if I don't know why she is reluctant.

It could be SO many things.

Let's try and break down possible reasons.

Ok, did you guys have sex a lot before? Because you say you've only been unhappy for about a year and a bit. What was enough before and isn't now?

What happened inbetween that changed things?

You say you were high-school sweethearts. Could it be that you've grown apart and she can see it but you can't, but she's reluctant to be straight with you?

Is she no longer attracted/less attracted to you? Why could that be?

Could she be cheating on you at all or thinking about someone else? When you guys decided to take some time off, what made you get back together again so soon?

You say that there are issues she has about your attitude to things, being negative and not communicating enough. Are you sure you've really done something about those issues or are you just sugarcoating things for her now that things are fragile? If it's cosmetic, she'll know the difference. Also, if there are such major issues that both of you feel the other has to change, chances are you might not make it in the long run.

Is her libido lower from any medication or contraception she's taking? Could also be part of it.

Could she have always had a lower sex drive and before she was just in the "enchantment phase" with you so she wanted sex more?

Is there something about the actual sex that is bothering her? Is she in discomfort or having a physical problem that she's too embarrassed to tell you about?

At the end of the day, this may be too big/complicated a hurdle for you to overcome. If it continues to drag on, it will only lead to resentment and a nasty break-up. I don't think people should give up easily and I hate it when people tell me there's other fish in the sea. Yes there are and if you break up you'll be fine. But it's worth a shot, especially if it's what you chose once. There are many choices you can make but you only have one life. I don't believe in giving up on people easily, especially if I care deeply about them.

I think it's worth a try but don't beat yourself up about it if you can't change the situation. It may not have a solution, or not have one with you.

Sorry for asking you so many questions and not giving you many answers.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Ruse

Both really. I just want to get to a point where she would initiate something and it would happen more often.

Well, it wasn't as much of a problem before. I don't know what happened but it went from being a very positive thing where we were both having a good time to being almost non-existant. I'm not sure whether or not she is afraid to express herself, though I've never asked. As for her past, there really isn't one.

Tippler - I'll get to those soon.

savvypup

Wow! I so feel like your girlfriend. My husband has the same beef with me as you do. Firstly, don't take it personally, because how she feels or more so the fact that she is quite happy going extended periods without sex, does not reflect how she feels about you.

From my own experience, because this was a major factor contributing to why we seperated (we're now back together) it's not that we don't find you attractive. For me personally, it's a whole heap of things. I'm back working fulltime + a part-time job, we have a 3 year old, there's chores, friends and the list goes on. But mostly, it's the RUT. Do you find yourself in a routine? You said it's always missionary? Is it always in the bedroom? Do you always ask or initiate? All of the above create a RUT.

It's so, so easy to fall into this especially being in a long term relationship. Re-live the fun things you use to do or find other things. Getting her to do this may even be hard, but if you get out of your rut, you'll rekindle the butterflies in the stomach. At least this works for me. Unfortunately (and I'm the first to admit it) I REALLY need to be pushed.

If this is the only real issue, persevere ............... let us know!

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ciao bella!

The_Jazz

If you don't know what's bothering her or why, then you're very obviously not communicating as well as you think. This is a very basic thing, and it's something you have to work on constantly. There are no shortcuts, and it can be a difficult process. Start by asking why then waiting for the answer. Don't interrupt but ask leading questions and LISTEN to the responses. Don't wait to talk, just listen.

Good luck.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

World's King

I'll give you the same advice I give every guy that complains about how much they have sex with their girlfriend/wife.


Get a mistress.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Toaster126

If you think sex becomes a rut, you aren't doing it right.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

james t kirk

You're young. I used to worship women too when I was your age. I used to think that they could do no wrong, that if a relationship ended, it was because the guy was a dick. Not any more. Women tend to be cold, calculating, and very oportunistic under the surface. They will dump just about any BF if they think they can do better. A man won't do the same thing. We men tend to look for stability in our lives, even when relationships aren't that good, we hesitate to get out of them. Hence the reason why 2 thirds of all divorces are initiated by women.

But don't believe me, read Divorce fact No. 10 here:

http://health.discovery.com/centers/...s/divorce.html

Wait till you get to by my age (I know I sound like an old coot, but, I have a lot more experience than you, and believe me, it counts for something.) According to your profile, you are 21. Well, I'm 42 and have been around the block a few times. Women at your age are not yet into their mercenary stage. That doesn't really happen till the late 20's early 30's. Once they get there, something happens, some gene kickes in, and they change.

If that's bleak, then I am guilty of being bleak, I agree. The only women in this world I trust are my mother and my sister, and unfortunately, my mother is gone. Sad but true. I sit here right now and I think of the women I know as friends, or those I have known as a lover and I ask myself, "Which one do I trust?" I can't honestly think of one. Ask me which one of my male friends I trust and I could honsestly say, everyone of my close friends.

surferlove007

Obviously there is some stuff underneath the surface happening inside. Sometimes relationships last for a couple years when things are good, and then they just don't work. People change, and sometimes when they change their compatability goes away, change isn't bad mind you. You're still young, lots of time to look around, but if you are committed to get it to work then the source of the problems needs to be found and gutted. Best of luck

Crack

Then I would just have 2 women that wouldn't have sex with me...

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Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx

abaya

Maybe that was your problem in the first place... sounds like you went from one extreme to the other, with no room for moderation. Seems like you haven't known many moderate women, either, which is unfortunate. Your sample is very biased, and that's perhaps your bad luck, but you must realize that not everyone is like you or the people you have known. The things you say are true for you, but are not "universal truths."

Are you happy, believing what you believe?

Anyway, if you know Carno at all (and I'm not claiming to, but I know him a bit on TFP), you know that he hardly "worships women," (or anyone, really) but he loves his girlfriend, and there is no doubt about that in my mind. And I'm not usually one to defend him, believe me.

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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
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MarcellaMel

Personally I think that great sex helps a relationship. I was in a realtionship for 4 years. The last year or so I wanted out so bad but was afraid to be the one to end it. So I pretty much quit having sex and started fights. I did not know at the time what was really going on I just knew I hated having sex with him. We grew apart and grew up. When people grow up they tend to develope different ideals and goals and those might be different from your S.O. I look back now 9 years later and can't believe the what was really going on. I did not even realize I was picking fights with him but I was. I don't recommend cheating on her but I would definatly ask her what she truely wants from you and the realtionship. Ask her if she feels like she is wasting her time or if she sees it going to the next level. Were either of you virgins when you got together? I ask because i was and that is what made it so difficult for me to accept that I was ready to move on. I hope this helped.

IT2002

I have been with my wife for ten years. Five of them married. In my particular situation we have been seperated for a year and divorce is imminent. When we first got together, we had the greatest sex, all the time. Over time her libido diminished. I would ask her "What's wrong?" and she would always say, "I don't know." The reason for this is because she couldn't be honest with herself. If she can't be honest with herself, she will surely not be honest with me. If your girlfriend gives you this type of answer I would leave her. She is hiding something that she isn't ready to come to terms with and it doesn't involve you.

Dude, you are in college! You are surrounded by plenty of wonderful women. Don't let one woman ruin the best years of your life.

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Xera

I have this problem too. Is your GF on hormonal birth control (particularly teh depo shot) or anti depresants? both will KILL a libido.

Also (this from the therapist I saw when I stopped wanting to have sex at all for no reason that I could find) sex causes chemical reactions in the brain. Your body likes those reactions, but if you don't have sex (or at least an orgasm) every so often your body doesn't get primed for it. In other words, in order to want to have sex you must have orgasms every so often. The longer you go without an orgasm, the longer you can go without wanting sex. In order for me to start back to treating my hubby the way I knew he deserved to be treated I had to kind of 'make' myself have sex every day for a couple of weeks, and it DID work, I did begin to want sex again after that, but the first couple of weeks were hard on me, because I couldn't let him know I was just forcing myself or he wouldn't have participated and it wouldn't have happened.

I'm assuming here that you've tried to romance her? run her a nice bubble bath, soft soothing music, candles, you cook for her and take care of the clean up, massage, that kind of thing?

You said this had all changed in the past year and a half, has anything else changed in that time? has she started a new job? gained weight? lost a significant amount of weight? had a close friend or family member die or move away? any major change like that?

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~~^~<@Xera @>~^~~

zpeanut

The first thing that came to mind was, has your gf ever experienced a full blown orgasm? I understand that there must be a lot of other issues involved with why your sex life isn't going so well.. but I could never understand fully what is going on between both of you...

...So I suggest, just from what you've written, (if orgasms arn't the problem) that you don't treat sex like something you can fix like a machine because you're unsatissfied about how its running. You can't complain to her and ask her to fix it! its not something that anyone can fix just like that. I found it very hard to imagine that kind of conversation about sex. If my bf complained to me so directly and constantly about how unsatisfied he is with our sexlife and how I should fix it, I'd be even more upset and the quality of sex would definately drop even lower. I'd feel that I'm a cause of his unhappiness, No?

Sex is very closely connected to emotions (duh), especially for women... we like it to be slow and romantic etc. We don't want it until we're emotionally and physically ready. When I'm out of wack, the sex is kind of the same. If I feel fat, I don't want my bf looking at my butt..

You need to give her some emotional support without making it obvious.. more attention to detail? When i've got an ugly day, it shows.. my bf can tell the signs and its at those times when he tells me that I'm beautiful, out of the blue - well at least it seems so.. and that gives me a boost.

empathy and communication.

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