How many first cousins have you laid?
 

This was a poll at another forum. I thought I would try it out here, and see what sort of results/reaction it got to compare the two.

Thanks.

I have never done it with any of my cousins, although I had an incident during my teenage years with a cousin that easily could have led to a "situation". She was working very hard to convince me that it was "ok".

do you happen to live in Alabama?

um... yeah, i'm going to go with 0...

um.. none.


that's sick.

Wierd... I'm gonna go with 0...

well, i'm sure the girls i've been with were a cousin to someone else, does that count?

well, as far as I know there havent been any yet. Although you only asked about cousins, not sisters.
That last bit was a joke of course. My non-standard sexual interests lie in other directions.

I have yet to see anyone admit this without having some sort of uncanny banjo playing prowess! I am interested to see who answers "yes" let alone possibly more than just one first cousin. For interest sake, which forum did you see this posted in?

No.

We were teenagers, drunk at the time. She was horny and I was devilishly handsome.

I extricated myself from her clutches and went home.

It happened in 1985 or so and the next time I saw her was when my aunt died in 2001 and she acted like she had never laid eyes on me before.

But since you mentioned certain states, I do know of a first cousin/first cousin marriage.

My grandmother's second husband's niece and nephew, who are first cousins of one another, got married. They were married to other people who both died around the same time, and I guess they started consoling each other just a little bit too much.

And no, they weren't from Alabama either, they were Yankees, although they did have to get married in another state that allowed first cousin marriage.

To my mind, I don't pass judgment on people until they start harming other people. If cousins want to have sex, that's their business. I am not into that.

But, I posted this poll here to see how it played out on a forum dedicated to "progressive sexuality" (among other things). The forum this was originally posted on was a religion forum, and it got a lot of play AND a lot of responses other than '0'.

Of 148 respondents, 6 people said they slept with one cousin; 2 people said they slept with four or more and 1 person said he (or she) slept with two cousins.

And this is a religious forum I am talking about. That's why I wanted to post this here. To compare the results from a specifically religious forum to a clearly secular one.

I actually had close friends who were first cousins and living together. When they moved away about 14 years ago, they'd been together over 12 years. Both had been married twice before, they had no intention of having kids nor getting married. When she 'had something to confess' to me, my reaction could not have been more nonchalant and actually surprised her at its casualness. Even my 'Archie Bunker' spouse couldn't have cared less. They're adults. They were happy.
First cousins share one set or less of grandparents. In the orthodox or hasidim jewish communities, first cousins marrying is not an uncommon event and it very well may be that way in other religious or racial societies.
While brother-sister, father-daughter, mother-son is a total ICK factor, cousins, to me, isn't. Coming in from the spouse's side, not one cousin is blood related to another; only two boys were born into the family through blood; two boys are adopted and my kids are from an anonymous sperm donor. Weird, huh?

Glad to see you think Sister on Sister action is OK. :thumbsup:

:lol:

Personally, I have no cousins as both of my parents are the only children of their generation to re-produce (my fathre has no siblings, and my matrnal aunt has not children).

I have no problem with cousins together though.

I've never even thought about this sort of thing with any of my first cousins; they were always like my brothers.

That said, I do come from a family with its share of double cousins a couple of generations back.

I haven't buried any first cousins to date yet.

Oh! Get laid with them...I see, well then no.

Edit: I'm kind of curious as to who actually voted for 1 and 4 or more. Comon, don't be shy...

why does this have to be posted the day before thanksgiving? i'm spending it with a bunch of my cousins!

goddammit, now all day i'm gonna have to be saying to myself "don't fuck your cousin, don't fuck your cousin, don't fuck your cousin...." :eek:

I slept with one of my first cousins when I was 18. We were dope heads together after I moved from Ga to "get away" from potential trouble here. He was my age. We used to hang out at the bottom of a quarry by the water all nite long and get high, and it happened, cant say I regret it either. It was a one night thing, and we still hang out now when I go visit the family, its never been mentioned by either of us since.

Never banged any cousins no.

When I was a teenager I had a bit of a crush on my one incredibly beautiful cousin, but I was 13 and she was 19 and very very hot.

The feelings have long since subsided.

Cousins I have had sex with: 0
Cousins I wished wern't my cousin so I could: 3

DON'T JUDGE ME! :p

Dude, wtf. Maybe we should make a "How many pets have you laid?" thread.

I was going to say pretty much the same thing.

The taboo about sex with cousins is only because of the limited gene pool
If procreation is not on the agenda, what's the fuss?


When we were kids, my cousins and I used to play "you show me yours; I'll show you mine." Not exactly the same as having sex, but . . . .

In any case, I've always had the hots for one of my cousins - even now that we're middle-aged. I saw her a couple years ago, and she was the best looking 43-year old I've seen in a long time!

I suppose I should mention that when it comes to anything sexual, I've always allowed the head without the ears do the thinking. :lol:

Yeaaaaah... I played that game with three of my cousins.

And the girl across the street.

I, personally, think the taboo goes far beyond procreation. This is a close family member. This is like a half brother or sister. The cultural taboo that I have always understood is that there are very different rules when it comes to family (outside of obvious biological reasons). Dating a sibling, uncle/aunt, cousin, child, or parent is quite unacceptable (and quite disgusting). Mind you I don't think this is me being prudish. I have no problem with two men having relations. I have no problem with people of much different ages having relations. I have no problem with S&M or other kinky type stuff. This is different.

As stated before: I see this as being similar to dating a half sibling (one parent shared). It's wrong.

That's exceptionally narrow minded of you. I'm really surprised to hear that coming from you.

Let's see, Albert Einstein and Charles Darwin (who had many healthy children) both married their first cousins. Franklin D. Roosevelt married a cousin. Many cultures have had married cousins long before America's narrow mindedness came to be.

Genetically there is very little extra risk associated with having children. Nor (in most cases) does the sibling or same roof taboo/principle apply here either unless you lived with your cousins. I don't know about you guys, but I see my cousins an average of maybe 8 days a year.

Quick website I just found through google, seems to be decent:
http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=facts

To the OP: I havn't had sex with any cousins, though I wouldn't turn her down if she offered as she is quite hot.

Go ahead. I'll vote '0' in that one, just like I did in this one.

I already explained wtf, "dude". I gave very clear reasons why I posted this poll. You don't have to participate in this thread, or anything on the entire world wide web, if you don't want to.

EDIT: What I find absolutely remarkable is that the results of this poll, in this clearly secular forum are virtually identical to the results in the religious forum.

This forum thus far, with 69 votes 92.75% answered in the negative; 7.25% answered in the affirmative.

The religious forum thus far, with 160 votes 93.75% answered in the negative; 6.25% in the affirmative.

Statistically speaking, these are identical results. That is a remarkable result that I did not expect. I don't know what I did expect, but I did not expect identical results.

well, it's not like you asked "do you believe in god" you might a bit more of a mixed result there, but in the culture we live in, having sex with a cousin is something that is seen as a bit "gross". I wouldn't judge someone one way or the other, but really, that's like asking who likes cold drinks on a hot day, there will always be those odd balls that say "Hell no!" it's just a social norm in any culture in the western world.

None. But has anyone seen The Godfather III? There's some cousin on cousin action going on there.

My mom had a falling about with my grandparents about 15 years ago. I have first cousins that I haven't seen since before then, and only saw them probably 6 times prior. I'm pretty certain that my upbringing was very little like theirs; I imagine that other than sharing grandparents I would have little in common with them.

Hypothetically, if I met one of them now and was in a position to date/have sex with them, would it be wrong?

(No cousin sex for me. Although I learned at my wedding that I had hooked up with one of my wife's cousins from another province.)

Thru the ages, in other countries cousins have married (and procreated with) cousins thru the centuries, specially "royal" families. America has laws in 24 states against it but there are none in Europe, the Middle East, Asia or Africa and its even preferred and lots of arranged marriages in Islamic countries are between first cousins.

Would I do it again? Nope, but Im not going to be ashamed or disgusted that I hit it as a teenager. My cousins are not viewed as "half siblings" I saw them maybe once or twice a year the entire time I was growing up. What I find interesting is that while others voted "yes" in the poll, Im the only one thats openly admitted to do have done it

In Portugal it's legal to marry your first cousin and I know a few couples who are first cousins and married. I don't think it's a big deal but that's a cultural thing.

I don't agree with sibling with sibling though, that's not legal here. The familial proximity is too close, genetically speaking. That's the only reason I can see to condemn it.

Sometimes you can't help who you like - I don't see any reason to get on a high-horse and preach to people about it.

I have never wanted to "lay" any of my cousins, because I personally get the "ick" factor going just thinking about it in any remote way. But that's me.

By "other directions" I hope you don't mean brothers instead of sisters....hahaha

Also...as someone stated before :
That information is incorrect. FIRST cousins are identifed as having one of their parents the sbbling of one of their other parents. For example, my FIRST cousin is the daughter of my Dad's sister. The example YOU gave would be called SECOND cousins, and in almost every state, SECOND cousins are allowed to marry.

I hate to argue here but deltona you and your first cousin do share grandparents, (assuming we are talking blood relations) your dad and sister have the same parents, which makes your grandparents and your first cousins grandparents the same ones. Second cousins share the same GREAT grandparents.

Definitions of cousins

Your first cousins are the people in your family who have two of the same grandparents as you. In other words, they are the children of your aunts and uncles.

Your second cousins are the people in your family who have the same great-grandparents as you., but not the same grandparents.

Your third cousins have the same great-great-grandparents, fourth cousins have the same great-great-great-grandparents, and so on



When the word "removed" is used to describe a relationship, it indicates that the two people are from different generations. You and your first cousins are in the same generation (two generations younger than your grandparents), so the word "removed" is not used to describe your relationship.

The words "once removed" mean that there is a difference of one generation. For example, your mother's first cousin is your first cousin, once removed. This is because your mother's first cousin is one generation younger than your grandparents and you are two generations younger than your grandparents. This one-generation difference equals "once removed."

Twice removed means that there is a two-generation difference. You are two generations younger than a first cousin of your grandmother, so you and your grandmother's first cousin are first cousins, twice removed.

Are you asking my opinion or the general rule? I'd ask: why? There are a ton of fish in the sea, and only a few are your cousins.

I have a cousin who married her third cousin, but then again, they both fell from the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down resulting in having five kids who are just as ugly as they are.

Anyway, I see no correlation between the ugly factor and being cousins, I just thought I would add that in.

That's faulty logic. Are you saying you could have married a ton of other women instead of your wife?

My wife isn't my cousin.

And what if she was? What if you suddenly found out you were adopted (or whatever) and she turned out to be your cousin? Would you let a mental mind set brought on by a small portion of ignorant society destroy the love you have for your wife?

I have to make a correction here.

This isn't at all like a half sibling. Half siblings share 25% of their DNA and one parent.

First cousins share 12.5% of their DNA and no parents.

I still won't be having sex with any of my cousins, but the point is that erroneous information is erroneous information and it should not be used to support your case.

None. But I did fuck my best friend's first cousin. She just moved to Colorado and didn't have friends, needed a date to homecoming. I was free. Nice girl. My friend won't let it go though. Any chance he gets to give me shit... And I just smile.

This reminds me of my favorite thread on the TFP... the one Smeth started (I think) about the Ick factor. :)

Did you make the argument the religious right makes against gay marriage on purpose or was that just really awesome? :)

I'll go with one.

OK, just to make my point, and if I am wrong, then I am wrong. Here is where I got my information.
cousin chart

According to this source, first cousins are childrem of two siblings...
i.e. a brother and a sister both have children, their children are first cousins of each other.

I don't think any of us is in a position to make a general rule.

My point is that being biologically related as cousin does not have any strong correlation to being related in a social sense,

Biologically unrelated siblings (adoptions, step-siblings) that are raised together, in my opinion, shouldn't have any sexual interaction. That kicks my "ick" factor on.

However, partially biologically related people who have had little interaction with each other throughout their lives doesn't offend me.

Further, and somewhat contradictory, "long lost" direct relatives also shouldn't have sexual activity together. For obvious icky arbitrary reasons.

Only one special cuz...but luckily he was adopted and so was I.
We seldom see eachother anymore, but when we do, we both have a special smile to share. We were both of age, too - so it wasn't like he robbed the cradle! :) Experiencing him was well worth the energy spent!!

I didn't say before as I was mostly just answering the direct question of had I laid a cousin before but here are my thoughts.
I don't have a problem with it. I have some pretty hot cousins that I would love to get in bed. And, I have had occasional thoughts about one of my sisters as I think she is really cute. I'm not sure if I would really do anything with her though but thats more from cultural pressures then anything. When it comes down to it I try to make my own rules for my life not what other people think I should do.
I have not had sex or any sexual relations with anyone I am related to though. If the opportunity presented its self though I would do it.
Oh, and willravel, if you post the poll I will answer it honestly. Just make sure you really want to know the answer.

um Deltona thats what I said, you quoted someone one that said first cousins share the same grandparents and said it was incorrect, I was just pointing out it couldnt be incorrect

I wouldnt do it, but if consenting adults indulge in it and there is no scope for abuse, I have no problem. Cant force my personal ethics upon others.

Its common for Muslims to marry their cousins and incest is accepted in certain old tribal societies, so incest is also rooted in tradition in some places. Whether that trend is healthy is a matter of debate as always. Plus, innumerable recent researches show that marriage/sexual relations within the family is liable to cause birth defects in the children.

I remember a friend remarking that the entire human race is a product of an incestual relationship, because there would have been copulation/sexual relations within the first human family itself for the progeny to continue. And then he went off on a tangent about religion and something about incest in the Bible.

A mental mind set? Hardly. It's the hypothetical genetic similarities between my wife and I that would have greatly increased the probaility that a genetic problem could have negatively effected my daughter, the most precious thing in the world to me. That's what my opinions are formulated upon, not a so called "small portion of ignorant society".

If my wife and I were related, which we absolutely are not, I would seriously consider becoming asexual. I would raise my daughter, release my wife from her responsibility to be faithful (I wouldn't want her to be celebate for the rest of her life, that's her decision), and I would simply live out the rest of my life. I'll never stop loving her, of course, but sexuality with a first cousin is wrong, and that will not change in my mind.
Please read my posts carefully before correcting them. I used the word "like" in comparing half siblings with cousins. The word "like" was used as a simile, or a word to make a comparison between two unlike things. The comparison was not direct. If I say, "She is like a rose", I am not saying that she grew from a seed pod.
Coincedence, I'm sure. Also, I support gay marriage, but I'd never marry a dude. I'm going to have to ponder if the comparison between homosexuality and incest of the cousin-to-cousin type is very different. Cousin to cousin can produce healthy offspring, where as homosexual couples require an incubator or cogenitor. The flip side is of course that incestual relationships are much more generally considered as taboo in many cultures than homosexuality.
OH, you mean a zoophilia poll. I'm not really interested in it. Honestly, I'm not interested in homosexuality, pedophilia, incest, zoophilia, etc (please do not take that I am comparaing those things except that they are considered by some to be taboo). The nice thing about being a liberal like myself, is that I will fight for the rights of others, even if they trigger an ick factor. While it's obvious from my posts in this thread that the cousin thing hits a major ick factor in me (as once did homosexuality, and as pedophilia and zoophilia still do), but what you do in the comfort of your home, so long as it doesn't hurt or take advantage of anyone, is fine with me. I hope that's always clear.

At the end of the day, you're behavior is your own and if it doesn't hurt anyone, what does it matter if it makes other people go 'ick'?

That one. Although I misrepresented it as a poll instead of a thread, my bad.

I did read your post carefully.

There was nothing in your post to lead anyone to believe that you were speaking in a figurative sense. You weren't.

You meant close relative, like a half brother or half sister. First cousins are not that close. In fact, they are exactly twice as "far" away from you, genetically speaking, as your half-brother or half-sister.

Don't kid yourself, kid: reading your post carefully doesn't reveal that you were using a simile, and reading my post after reading yours, and then your response quoted above, reveals that you know you were corrected.

Your mind reading abilities leave much to be desired.

I'm sorry you missed the comparison between two different family members, but that hardly means that I didn't make the compariosn. Are you fimilair with the concept of perception and conclusion? You read something, you give it context based on experience, then you draw a conclusion. Somewhere in there, probably in the experience thing as you might not have much experience with using or percieving similes, there was a simple mistake. No harm done.
My next door neighbor is closer to me than the person 2 doors down, but they are both neighbors, and are definately in my neighborhood. My half sibling is closer to me than my cousin, but they are both close relatives and they definately include some of the same genetics.
So to review: you misread my post, I correct you, then you call me 'kid' in a clearly condescending manner. You're quite the charmer.

Yeesh, where do I begin? You compared just having sex with a first cousin (not even having children) to having sex with animals, otherwise known as bestiality. Yet apparently your opinions are formulated on your knowledge of genetics. Which book did you read that one in?

Where are your sources that say it "greatly increases" (in realitys it's something like a 2% higher chance, and they have genetic counseling or whatever its called for those 2%) the chance for genetic problems?

And it is a small ignorant portion of society, its something like only 26 states here in the US, and legal everywhere else in the world just about (and most of history). And those 26 states were based on old genetic research. Current research shows it's not a problem.

If your going to damn about 20% of the world's population then maybe you should form your opinions on current research instead of outdated beliefs.

Yes, it is about 2%. Let me make this perfectly clear: if I am to choose between a 2% chance of homozygosity and a .000001% chance of homozygosity in my daughter, which do you think I'd choose? I know the odds, and I'm not interested in playing them at the possible (2% possible) detriment of my offspring.

Just a suggestion to everyone in general: start with the assumption that someone isn't ignorant and go from there. If you find out later, then there you go, live and learn. If you assume someone is ignorant and then find out they aren't you could hurt someone's feelings if they respect your opinion.
I'm damning people? Did you read the last part of the post you quoted from? Please read the last paragraph. Here it is:

Obviously, since I only talked about what was in your post and didn't speculate beyond it, I wasn't mind reading, attempting to mind read, or pretending that I could mind read.

You are dismissed.

You were just fine until you made the statement "You weren't". That was where you moved from speculating what I was communicating to stating that you knew what I was communicating, and you really couldn't know that without being able to read my mind.

Maybe it's time to end this threadjack.

I am glad I decided to go ahead and read the rest of your post after all.

Yeah, I am reel dum. I dint no wut a quote unquote simile wuz untell u mentioned it before. I axed my daddy wut u ment and he told me 2 axe uncle granpa. See uncle granpa's reel smart. He done been threw 7th grade 2 times. He was so good at it, they told him he dint have 2 come back.

I just love it when I am accused of not being smart or educated by people who write crap sentences like this:

I offered to end this, but fine. What you quoted is called a paragraph, not a sentence. If you're going to call my intelligence into question, you should make sure your on solid ground yourself.

You misunderstood a simile. Get over yourself. It's no more complicated than that. I'm not calling you stupid. It's obvious that you're a little more than confrontational at the drop of a hat, but that doesn't make you stupid necessarily. I would suggest that you read the dictionary.com definition of the word 'simile':
I hope that makes it more clear. 'like' was used as a simile, and I think screwing your cousin is gross.

That's it.

The word sentenceS is the plural form of the word sentence. That means two or more. Paragraphs are composed of sentenceS.

Get it now? You aren't dealing with an idiot. I would be willing to bet a great sum of money that I know at least as much about english composition as you.

Presuming to educate me on similes?

I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that I knew what a simile was, and how to use and recognize a simile, when you were still shitting in your diapers.

Edit: I'll give you bonus points if you figure out what my actual grammatical error was. Because you didn't catch it so far.

If you look at it from a religious standpoint.... cousins having sex with cousins is not one of the forbidden relationships as defined in Leviticus where as sex between "steps" was

Between parents and children Leviticus 18:7-8
Between stepparents and stepchildren Leviticus 18:8, 17
With your paternal or maternal aunt Leviticus 18:12-13
With your uncle or aunt Leviticus 18:14
Between brother and sister and half-brother and half-sister Leviticus 18:9
Between stepbrothers and stepsisters Leviticus 18:11
With your daughter-in-law Leviticus 18:15
With your sister-in-law Leviticus 18:16
With your granddaughter Leviticus 18:10
With your step-granddaughter Leviticus 18:17

and the United States is the only country with laws about such, even Mexico and Canada allow it

Who's the mind reader?
Absolutely not.

You don't get to decide whether I am confrontational or stupid. You aren't in any position to judge anything about me.

No thank you. I have received formal training in writing. That's why I don't need some little goofball on the the internet giving me ad hoc lessons in figurative writing citing a half-assed online dictionary as a source.

To join the current fray, McDuffie, it appears you have lost the context in which willravel was speaking. See above for "I think", "I have always understood" and "I see". These are value statements, and are not meant to be absolutes. You seem to be trying to make willravel's posts into something you can hunt down and shoot. You've shot, and missed, as evidenced by this post:

My cousin is like my brother, but that doesn't mean that I am comparing the DNA of the two of them when I make that statement. It offers a view into the status of a relationship or a view into the belief system of my family's dynamics and mores. Some people do not believe it is morally acceptable to have sex with a blood relative, especially if they're close DNA wise. I am one of those as well, yet I don't judge those who have done so. Just because I believe it's not right, doesn't make those who have done the cousin thing "bad people".

And I thought this was the topic of this thread, not trying to pick fights with someone who just stated their opinion.

I'm sorry this went on so much. Hopefully we can move on now. Thanks for the help Intense1. It's good to know that others get it too.

for more information, incest is defined as sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom. So only in the United States is cousin/cousin sex "incest"

can we please stop this stupid fighting and get back to the discussion at hand? I personally could give a crap about a grammar lesson and who can or can not write a correctly structured sentence

The story is actually this: you fucked up. Instead of saying"Oops, gee, you are right. I guess cousins aren't really that close after all" you made up some bullshit excuse, and on top of your bullshit excuse, you implied that it was my lack of education, not your lack of clarity, that was the source of the confusion.

And I have no "shell" to come out of. This forum was interesting once. I thought maybe it might be again. It isn't. If I am banned, I won't shed a single tear. If I am not banned, I may post again, or I may not.

You really need to work on that mind reading, bud.

:thumbsup:

I was actually responding to someone who was picking a fight with me.

EDIT: Oh yes, there is one other thing to which I absolutely must take exception: I have not ever gotten "really mad" at anyone on the internet ever. I have not even gotten anymore than slightly annoyed, and what you did here in this thread got me nowhere near slightly annoyed. I can post a link to a thread in another forum in which I was annoyed with someone, if you want to compare.

I just wanted to clear that up. People online do not anger me, ever. It is my opinion that people who get angered by people they encounter in forums or chatrooms probably should not ever get into forums or chatrooms.

That is all I have to say on that. That is my last correction to any of your posts.

Ok, the damning part was off, but try and see it from my perspective, when I read your first argument of the "dude, wtf..." it's going to color my opinion of you.

And sure, if 2% difference makes that much of a difference to you then fine, but my main beef with you is your slur (or what have you) about bestiality and cousins.

You say that that small % difference is what does it for you, but non related couples can have genetic problems too. Did you and your wife get checked out before deciding to have a child? See a genetics counselor?

Life is about taking risks, if first cousins want to spend the rest of their lives together a 2% difference shouldn't keep them apart and they shouldn't have to hear disparaging baseless comments about their lifestyle because of it.

Understood. I was really thrown and did make a knee jerk reaction.
All I meant by that is that they were both things that triggered an ick. I woulnd't assume to tell people what to do. I just wanted to give my opinion.
Yes. Because of my heart condition, a coarctation of the aorta, there was a roughly 4% chance that my offspring could have some sort of defect, though the doctor assured me that if it happened, the odds of it being a major defect were infantesimal. My wife's family had no history of heart defects, so we decided to go ahead.
Nor should that 2% keep them apart. I make decisions about my life and they theirs.

So what you're saying is that posting "fuck you, you little dipshit", and telling someone they wrote "fucked up posts" and the best one "you're dismissed", isn't getting angered? Perhaps you should go back and read the guidelines of posting on TFP, McDuffie.

Dang, if you post like this when you're not ANGERED, then perhaps you send special internet postal bombs when you are..... :mad:

Look at the rest of the posts, McDuffie - see how we're trying to have an intelligent discourse and get over yourself, please.

Arguments aside, for your own edification I hope that you'll re-evaluate the pillars of your belief. Above you clearly state that your opinion is based on the risk factor involved, yet you just admitted (1) you have a heart problem and played the odds (no matter how small) in passing that on to your daughter. Is that really much different?

Philosophically, just because you protect freedom of choice doesn't mean you should believe willy nilly because your opinions won't affect anyone :) Have educated opinions if not for yourself, then for your daughter who you will inevitably pass them on to.

(1)Kudos though for getting that checked out and making an informed decision

No, it isn't getting angered. Not when it's coming from me, anyway. Perhaps I should. If that sort of language isn't allowed, perhaps I shouldn't post here anymore.

I already said, I don't get angry at people online. It's a stupid waste of time. If you think that my use of the "f" word is indicative of my emotional state, it's hardly my problem.

Look at what led to my saying "fuck you, you little dipshit". I didn't appreciate someone covering his ass by pretending that I don't have a 5th grade education, and I responded like a normal person would respond when his intelligence or education was thus impugned.

Though, admittedly, I speak a little saltier than most people.

Look, I'm in Africa right now. It's 4 AM here. Do you really want to keep this up? No? Good.

So what you're saying is that posting "fuck you, you little dipshit", and telling someone they wrote "fucked up posts" and the best one "you're dismissed", isn't getting angered? Perhaps you should go back and read the guidelines of posting on TFP, McDuffie.

Dang, if you post like this when you're not ANGERED, then perhaps you send special internet postal bombs when you are..... :mad:

Look at the rest of the posts, McDuffie - see how we're trying to have an intelligent discourse and get over yourself, please.



SINCE WE'VE CROSS POSTED, MCDUFFIE, HERE'S MY NEXT POST:

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B. Disagreement can take place without rudeness or disrespect. For your own sake, if you wish to continue enjoying the TFP, learn how to disagree respectfully.

C. If you do not like a post for its content or its author, it's best to hit the back button on your browser rather than giving your heated two cents.

D. Since you are required to both BE and ACT at least 18 years of age, any allusions to immaturity will draw the attention of our moderators.

E. We encourage everyone to come in with open ears and eyes. The main themes of the TFP revolve around sexuality, philosophy and foreward thinking. We'd like to help you feel secure about yourself in each of those categories.

F. Be honest with everyone. This is the internet and anonymity rules here, so that's even more of a reason to be open and truthful in your posts. There is no better way to take advantage of the many users who are reading the boards, willing to provide help and support.



You know, McDuffie, there havn't been many things I've agreed with Willravel here on TFP, particularly on the politics thread. Sometimes I've thought he was absolutely nuts! (hee hee, willravel's nuts....:) But I've always respected his opinion, and even when I thought he was at his most nuttiness, I never even contemplated responding to his post with a "fuck you, you little dipshit". Sorry, but in the civilized discourse I've seen on TFP - even at the most extreme of disagreement - this is just juvenile, and is completely uncalled for.

Are you sure TFP is for you?

Guys ever heard of private messaging? Youre all taking it way too seriously. Let it go and take a deep breath.

I hope everyone stays, including McDuffie.

You guys are throwing around tfp rule quotes but youre all guilty of threadjacking (even instense). Youve all made different mistakes. So live and let live.

My odds could not have been made better with a different wife when it comes to my heart condition. My opinion is based on two things: homozygosity, and the ick factor. I'm the first to admit that the ick factor isn't really based on anything but what I can only interpret is puritanical BS, but it's my decision to make personally. The differene between me and, say, the typical homophobe is that I wouldn't vote to make cousin/cousin relations illegal or try to keep them from living a happy life. I figure that as long as I'm comfortable with my beliefs and they don't hurt anyone, it's just a personal quirk.
I don't like chocolate cake. I won't stop anyone else from having chocolate cake, but I won't have it myself. I don't think I'm being willy nilly with my opinions, it's just a matter of preference.
Surely. And everything turned out just fine.

Sorry for the threadjack - my bad. :|


On another (or actually, the true) note: I once was in a training school with an Indian friend whose brother was marrying their first cousin. She said that it was ok for them to marry, because her brother was not their cousin's "cousin-brother", meaning, he wasn't the son of one of her father's siblings. She was the daughter of my friend's mother's sister (I think). It appears that it would have been taboo if the groom were the son of one man and the bride the daughter of that man's brother/sister....

Not sure - if anyone is of Indian descent and can explain it to us, we'd be grateful. I tried to google it, but got no where.

Here's the problem though. The reason why I refuse to relent to people like this online is because they don't act like this in the real world. If this was a bar and this happened, I most certainly would have politely, as I did here, corrected him. My correction was polite. It would have been a bit more polite if it was in a bar, or a night club or at a party at someone's house, but reread my correction of his error, and you will see that it was polite. I didn't bully him, nor did I suggest he wasn't educated. I merely corrected an error. If I made an error like that, I would expect someone to correct me as well. Hell, my wife has practically made a career of correcting minor conversational errors like that made by me.

And then observe his next response. The first thing he did was to impugn my education, in a somewhat elliptical way.

In subsequent posts he continued on this same theme, becoming more and more clear in his implication that I am not educated and his insistence that I failed to recognize a simile with each post. Finally he just bluntly stated that I didn't know what a simile was until he did me the favor of explaining it.

Now, do you think that he would have behaved this way if we were at a party together at someone's house? No, of course not! Why? Is it because I am some immensely built, terrifying looking brute of a man? Not really, though I am not a small guy, but the reason is that he isn't that much of an asshole in real life. He's only an asshole here, where he doesn't have to deal with the consequences of his behavior.

It didn't have to go this way. He could have said "You are right" or if he meant that as a simile (which I don't believe for 2 seconds) he could have said "No, sorry, I should have been clearer, I meant that as a simile. I was writing figuratively." But no. almost the first thing from his keyboard was a fairly well composed version of "UR DUM LOLZ".

If anyone here wants to blame me, that's fine. I get blamed for shit I'm not responsible for all the time, so why not get blamed for this. It's just a forum. If anyone here is really taking any of this THAT seriously, they should probably log off.

Has he ever presumed to educate you on a subject that you have known about longer than he has been alive?

No, of course not. Especially after this. Why would I want to hang out with assholes and asshole enablers?

I'm in Anadyr, and its 3:40 a.m. here (not to mention a bit cold), and yet my discourse remains rule abiding.
willravel never insinuated that you were unintelligent or uneducated. I am unsure as to why you were so quick to draw the conclusion that he was. It was a debate over a simile, nothing personal.
Yes, because willravel always picks fights...
... Oh wait, nevermind. :hmm:

There's no reason to make such a fuss over a misunderstanding. You cleary have some sort of complex over your ability to interpret similes, which is fine; just conduct your debate in a civil manner. You've breached the rules of TFP several times, and, though that may be your style of posting, is not acceptable here. You are welcome to post in any way you'd like elsewhere.

i'm this close to getting booted

I read the two posts a third time. I still don't see it. All I see is him giving an explanation on what he meant, and you condescending in the following post.

Its really and truly sad that those of us that were honestly "debating" this subject are being subjected to this drivel, this is just ridiculous

feel free to tell me to fuck off too if it makes anyone feel better

As I said, it was in an elliptical way. And it was. He could have said "simile". I know what a mother fucking simile is.

At my age, and with my background, I am confident that I have known what a simile is much longer than most of the participants on this thread.

But, no he presumes to educate me on what a simile is.

Fine. I still think it's an ad hoc excuse and I say so. I address his subtle condescension with less subtle condescension. He returns fire with a suggestion that I am, in fact, uneducated and off we go.

I can't believe that I have to explain what you could have read for yourself.

And this is getting terribly, terribly boring.

Zeraph, isn't the "ick factor" different for everyone? Ick is a subjective factor.... my belief is.

Nope, I'm an asshole everywhere. It's incredible. Everyone hates me. I get in fights with people in line at Safeway about similes and perpositions all the time. I can't even go to Target anymore because I keep getting in grammatical arguments with the guy that pushes the carts.

Or

I said something, not even as a response to you, and you tried to correct it. You were wrong (as you're not Jesus Christ and are not infalable), and then you refused to admit your mistake. It's incredible to me that you are continuing this on and on and on. Let it go.
Oh boy! An agist. I'm 23, so how could I possibly know as much as someone who's older than 23? Your hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

Why take it so personally? After his explanation you could have simply said something like "I know what a simile is." You've said you don't get angry online, so why take his post as such an insult when it was hypothetically meant to be taken at face value. There were no hidden daggers, yet you play it off as if you were stabbed.
We have absolutely no idea what your age or background is. We know nothing about you.
We don't know who you are. willravel posted an explanation of a simile as a point of clarification, not as a tool of condescention. You're over-analyzing his post's meaning, which is a trait of intelligible people. Ironically enough, your over-analysis lead to you thinking he was calling you an idiot. Though I'm still not sure why you are pursuing this with such vigor.

Also, age means nothing. Background means nothing. We don't know you. All we know about you is what we see you post.

Here is the problem with that. I didn't make a mistake.

If I failed to understand your sentence, it was far less likely that it was my reading comprehension skills and far more likely that it was your inability to communicate effectively.

So, I made no mistake for which I must admit error. What could I possibly admit to? Misunderstanding what you wrote? I misunderstood your brutalizations of the english language. How does that sound?

But that's an exaggeration, isn't it? Your grammar, syntax etc are pretty darned good. Most people online can barely put together a sentence into a coherent statement. You're pretty doggone good at writing. But that doesn't mean that I should have necessarily gotten that you were using simile and if I didn't get it that it could have only been my fault.

And it goddamned sure doesn't mean that I didn't know what a simile was before you quoted that ridiculous fucking dictionary.com for fuck's sake.

So no, I won't admit to making a mistake. I made no mistake. But you made a mistake in presuming that I didn't know what a simile was. I don't expect you to admit to that anytime soon.

Translation: I can't be wrong.
Translation: Even if I was wrong, it was your fault.
People misunderstand people all the time. I misunderstand people, you misunderstand people. The difference is: most people ask for clairification. You didn't. You assumed I was wrong, and then tried to correct me. The "erronius information is erronius information" thing is what told me this guy isn't seeking clairification, he's condescending. You simply don't understand what a simile is. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm a product of the California school system, so I'm well aware of how little people can understand simple schoolastic information. I'm sure some people that graduated with me from high school still don't know what a preposition is or how to use it.
All you had to do was ask. I would have said, "Oh yes, I didn't intend to communicate that your hypothetical cousin and half sibling share the exact same relation to you, what I meant is that they are both of close relations to you," or something. I probably still would have used the word 'simile' in there, because it does have everything to do with the misunderstanding, bit I wouldn't have condescended at all. I'm actually freakishly easy to get along with 99.999% of the time.
Everyone else here seems to understand it was used as a simile. I don't know how old they are compared to you, and thus their opinions might be equally as invalid as mine because they're younger than you, but that does mean something.
Actually, I didn't really expect you to apologize or admist your mistake or anything. I just expected it to dwindle into nothing in a few posts, then we could move back to cousins and such. That didn't happen. You got mad (or at the very, very least rude, whatever).

I still am not sure you know what a simile is, but is that really something so important? Nope. If I went around the internet correcting people's grammar, I'd be an asshole, and I do have a job and a family and a beagle.

Regarding ShaniFaye's post on biblical interfamilial marriage:

In the NT, Elizabeth and Zachariah (the parents of John the Baptist) were cousins (not known how close their family ties were), and even Joseph and Mary (Jesus' "father" and mother) were in the same family.

First cousins marrying is not expressly forbidden in scripture - but it is in many laws of many states and many countries.

(still hoping we can keep this thread going..... :suave:

That isn't so. If you care to scroll through my history on this very forum, you will see an instance in which I admitted to being wrong with no encouragement from anyone. As soon as I received the correct information, I logged back into this forum, in fact, it was months later, and I admitted to my error.

If you go to my usual online hangout www.iidb.org you will find dozens of examples of me admitting to mistakes.

Sorry pal. That one doesn't work with me at all. I am one of those internet oddballs who prefers to be corrected when wrong.

Ask what? Despite your protestations, nothing in your post would lead one to think that you meant it as a simile.
Either that or most of the people here don't give a fuck and those who do are jumping to your side of it because of the "style over substance" fallacy or because they "know" you or both.

...and now that you've taken that so far out of context that it isn't recognizable as anything I have ever thought, much less said or written.

What mistake am I supposed to admit to? Really. What mistake did I make?

Now that I know how old you are, I know for an absolute fact that I knew what a simile was when you were shitting in your diapers.

As I said, I had (some) formal education in writing. I was going to be a journalist until I discovered that journalists don't make too damn much, on average. It's a fairly flooded market, or at least it was in the late eighties/early nineties.

Pecimism is what stopped you from asking. You assumed I was an idiot instead of assuming there was a misunderstanding.
Do you mean style over substance? Just because you use the 'f' word or because I have over 5,000 posts on TFP doesn't mean there is a conspiracy to prove you wrong. People disagree with me here constantly. It's part of what keeps me coming back.
I'm not typing for you when you say things like:
Age ain't nothing but a number.
The only real mistake was going completly nuts. I don't care about the other stuff, but when people start cursing at each other on here, a little bit of TFP dies. That's not what this place is about.
Again, age is irrelevent (after a certian point, I don't expect my 3 year old daughter to know what a simile is). If I were to say, "Yes, but the word simile meant something different during the time of the dinosaurs", it would be completly meaningless.
I write screenplays for fun, but that really doesn't mean too much I'm sure. All I really need is a high school diploma. Shit, I'm horrible at spelling, my syntax leaves much to be desired, and I end sentences with prepositions all the time (where my dogs at?).

Ok, I've tried to keep this thread going by actually posting and answering posts THAT WERE ACTUALLY RELATED TO THE TOPIC, but as you, McDuffie, have kept up your asinine little feud then let me ask you this: if you are so intent on having us view your "posts" on this forum, then why haven't you posted anything (other than a random post in October) IN OVER A YEAR?

You started this thread - if you want it to succeed then do what it takes to KEEP IT UP, instead of embarking on these petty little word games. I don't give a rat's red ass how old you are (I'm 44, and you?), but if you insist on THREADJACKING YOUR OWN DAMNED THREAD, then at least have the balls to step out and let those of us who are interested in the topic discuss the subject at hand!

And Willravel - you know better than this! He's just baiting you. Empty your personal message space, dude.

Honestly, you'd think a couple of 10 year old boys were on this forum!!!

Hummph! :eek:

I'm going to butt into the threadjack, in the sincere hope that I can make a small derail back onto the question discussed in the OP, and not the ensuing asshollery. (Of which, while I disagree with willravel on the OP, I back him on most his self-defense)

Really, it's the wrongness you attribute to it that I take opposition to. I haven't a cousin that I would consider having sex with, but I don't feel that it would inherently wrong for me to do so. If I got a 'yucky' feeling about it, it'd be because I can't find a man attractive unless he is brutally so, and they're all either pasty, unwashed, nintendo fanboys (not my thing) or under 5 (very much not my thing).

There're many cultures that allow marriages and unions between first cousins. I know for a fact that among the Yanomama in South America, marriage and sexual unions between cross cousins (children of either the maternal uncle or the paternal aunt. Other cousins are treated as brothers or sisters, and thus amount to sibling incest.) is the most preferred form of marriage.

The idea of wrong feels centered in a moral/ethnocentric doctrine for me, be it religious or no. Thus, I feel this isn't an issue over which a blanket statement, such as the one you're providing, can be placed. To state that another culture allows a thing to happen does not mean that it cannot be wrong. People allow things they consider to be wrong just happen all the time.
Were this the case at hand, I would be less likely to attack your position on the wrongness of union between two cousins. However, among at least the one culture marriage between cousins is the preferred form of marriage... and thus your statement seems to come as an ethnocentric attack on other culture, namely those who either/both accept marriage and unions between cousins to be either openly acceptable (not immoral, and thus perfectly acceptable) or the preferred means of living.

After a lot of thought, I had to go with zero on this one.

I'm curious as to who the two people who voted four or more are, though...

TexanAvenger, I don't see a belief that cousins shouldn't have sex as an attack on another culture as much as a personal belief that close blood relatives shouldn't have sex. I share this view, as do many who have previously posted. It's not a damnation upon culture, just a personal or familial value.

Thanks for the on-thread post, by the way! :icare:

Ethnocentric? Nope. I'm not aware of what cultures (even my own) accept or don't accept cousin/cousin relationships, so it couldn't be ethnocentric. At the end of the day it's really as simple as my thinking it's gross. The taboo I speak of is the limited one that I encounter every single time that I bring up cousin/cousin relations - which is almost never. Basically, I'm guessing based on limited knowledge and my personal feelings. And now the poll. I'm sure many people, maybe most people know more about this than I do. The only thing I really know at the end of the day is how I feel about it.

Attack was too strong a word... In fact, looking back over it, most of what I said could be boiled out to get to how I feel at the base of most topics:

I don't feel it's as easy to attribute 'right' or 'wrong' as you seem to be. I feel like this is a topic that, even if you wouldn't do it yourself, you ought try to keep an open mind about others doing it without attributing measures of 'rightness'... much like I think I understood what you've stated about your attitude towards homosexuality.

Yeah, I'm still wrapping my noddle around the comparison between homosexuality and kissing cousins. I think I've been exposed to more homosexuals than kissing cousins, which could effect my ick factor. I've had dozens of homosexual friends all throughout my life. I can't think of any kissing cousins I've known.

Doesn't this bring up the feeling that...ok, two unrelated gays can kiss, but no matter what, I cannot help but cringe at the thought of me kissing my cousin? It's not the same thing! I have a gay cousin - it's fine to think about him and his partner kissing, but the thought that he would kiss my brother is just eeewwww! Even if my brother were gay, it would just be.... eeewwww.

And I have a cousin who is adopted, my own age, but I have been raised and he has been raised in a family setting that we are FAMILY. It doesn't matter that we aren't biologically related, we are FAMILY. And family members do not do physical things with each other!!! (other than hug and eat enormous amounts of southern cooked food)

It's a value that is placed in families - some believe it's ok, some don't.

Yeah. Relations with a cousin is just... a line you shouldn't cross.

I, too, am curious about the two who voted four or more...

Actually Mary and Joseph were first cousins. I've been trying to find credible statistics, but so far the only country I can find it to be illegal in, is the US, land thats only in some states. 19 States (*gasp* and many of them are northern states) allow first cousin marriage with no restrictions and another 7 allow it after a certain age or they cannot bear children.

Never had sex with a first cousin or any other cousin that I'm aware of, but I did "play around" with one cousin one summer when I was about 10, I think....it gave me the icks then and it gives me the icks now. But I just couldn't help myself, I guess, eh-heh. I was a very curious child.

You obviously have never seen my cousin! :lol:

That was me....first cousins share one or less set of grandparents, ie: their parents are siblings or half-siblings. You 'corrected' me by stating the same thing.:lol: Second cousins share great-grandparents, ie; their parents are first cousins. For example: My cousin has kids, I have kids, all those kids are second-cousins. Our shared grandparents are our kids' great-grandparents. I am his kids' first cousin, once removed and vice versa.

When I was about 22, my 15 year old cousin was really cute. She was adopted so she is not blood related to me. My friends were always busting me saying how they wanted her. I started to get the feelingshe had a crush on me. We were kidding around wrestling one day and she quickly kissed me on the lips. I pretended like it didn't happen and just continued kidding around. After that I never wrestled around again or let us get in a situation where something like that could happen again.

If she had been about 20 years old or so, I have to admit I would have kissed her back and let it go where ever it was headed.