match000

Can girls like 2 guys at the same time? Like, if she liked guy #1, then after a year she met a new guy, guy #2, but likes them both still?

Grasshopper Green

Yes. Emotions don't shut down just because you are with someone.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

Moyaboy

I believe you can, however, is guy #1 aware of you liking guy#2?

If so, how does he feel about it?

If not, what are you going to say if or when they meet? or find out about one another?

__________________
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg

match000

no, i am a guy. i am more like guy #2, but that would imply that the girl likes me. i don't know if she does, but we have spent a lot of time together recently (b/c guy #1 is not here currently). i think we have spent, oh, 30 to 40 hours together now?

i am not sure if i am in friend zone or not. I think I will bite the bullet very soon and find out (by telling her I like her).

i know she likes guy #1 b/c she told me "i like him (present tense)." he likes her too. in fact, she told me she rejected him 3 times before (he asked her to be official bf/gf). but then she said she is almost ready to be 'official'.

after reading what i just wrote, i think i am too pansy to own up that i am a cuddle bitch. oh well.

Moyaboy

hmmm.......

How serious has she indicated that she has feelings for guy#1?

Is he going to be gone for an extended amount of time (armed forces, traveling businessman, ect...)?

Would you be willing to change the dynamic of your friendship?

__________________
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg

match000

I think she is serious because she wears a ring that he 'lent' her before he went away. And shouldn't she be serious, esp cuz she said she is nearing readiness to be 'official' with him (despite having rejected him 3 times already).

Well. We are in college, but I just graduated. He has been away on Co-op but is coming back to college in a week (he and her are not graduated yet). I myself will be moving far away to the mid-west for graduate school in a month.

Assuming that she does like me, either then I am looking at: 1) Long-distance or 2) quick fling.

2) is ruled out because she told me she is the save-it-for-marriage type. And she also said she's not romantic. She's also the shy type that doesn't call (she doesn't call guy #1 either).

But since I am most likely a friend, I should probably just lay my cards on the table and see what happens (most likely blows up in my face). Such is life.


However, I don't really get the feeling that she is *that* into guy #1. I think she is just used to hanging out with him (for a year, once a week she told me). I mean, she's used to thinking of him as her unofficial bf, but i mean, if she really was that into him, she would have progressed much faster...??

analog

I wouldn't say pansy, you just don't want to admit to yourself that she's interested in the first guy and not you, or at least not to the same extent.

She may really, really like you. A lot...... as a friend.

Toaster126

You are a cuddle bitch. On the bright side, if she actually said something like that (almost ready to be official), I would have all kinds of sirens going off in my head - meaning you prolly don't want to be in a relationship with her anyway.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

ratbastid

Hang on. You just graduated college, you're headed to grad school. You're at least 21 years old, probably more like 22 or 23, right? What's with this junior-high-level "she likes him, does she like me" business? Seriously, I considered reporting your OP on suspicion you were under age. Keeping your relationship talk couched in this juvenile vocabulary is part of why it stays uncertain and dramatic for you. You're not approaching the thing like the grown man you are, you're approaching it like a scared 13-year-old who doesn't talk straight and can't say what he wants.

You know perfectly well that it's possible for a person to be attracted to and interested in more than one person at once. Just watch an episode of Jerry Springer if you're unclear about that.

The questions to be asked are these: Is she involved with the other guy? Does she get involved with men, given that she's waiting for marriage, not romantic, and shy? What are your feelings for her, exactly? What conversation would you need to have with her to express your feelings for her? Are you willing to have that conversation?

match000

Why would sirens go off? Because that is the wrong way to develop a relationship? Because she is clearly not mature enough for one?

Yes, I'm 22.

She's involved in some sort of way, such as seeing him once a week (or talking on the phone once a week if he's away). Your right, she doesn't really "get involved" with other men seeing as she's waiting for marriage type; the other night she told me she doesn't see AT ALL why dating/romance should need to involve ANY physicality. She literally said "I don't see why it needs to involve any of that stuff (sex, physical fun, etc), why can't it just be like this [talking]."

However, I have invested alot of time hanging out with her (and alot of $ too). And I find myself liking her, although I feel its lessening as she shows less interest and makes it clearer that I am a cuddle bitch. I guess I know what kind of conversation I need to have, and yes, the next time I see her (if there is one, I told her to call ME), I will have it

analog

Run. Run away as fast and as far as your legs can carry you. Don't look back. Go now.

Sultana

Listen to Analog. You yourself said you are a cuddle bitch. This one doesn't even want to cuddle.

Maybe there's a reason she's *saving it* for marriage...Not kidding.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

match000

I think I will run as far as possible. But if she does call again, I will get together and lay my cards down (ie tell her I like her) just to see what happens (why not?)

The reason she told me why she is the save-it-for-marriage type is she doesn't like the idea of left-overs. You know, the whole its-special only one person will ever have me sort of deal.

Sultana

Umm, I have to point out that this is actually the *Exact Opposite* of running away.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

match000

Hmm.. I guess I was trying to fire off one last shot.

But I didn't see the whole picture of what you guys and girls meant. That, even in the 0.1% chance if it works out in my favor, this girl is still not going to offer a fulfilling relationship; and hence, run.

BigBen

Best. Thread. Ever.

I was laughing, I was crying. I shook my head, and nodded in agreement.


Dude:
Do you like women?
Do you like how they smell, how they feel?
Do you like looking at naked women?
Do you like sex?

If the answer is yes to these qustions, you need to run. Run fast, run long. You need to put things out on the table sooner in your next opposite-sex relationship. Tell the woman how you feel. Keep searching.

Now how about these:
Do you like sharing your inner thoughts, feelings, dreams and fears?
Do you want to help people through good times and bad?
Is knowing that a person cares about you one of the most important things?
Could you talk for hours, just laying in the dark with someone?

If you answered yes, then I think you are in the right place.

Shit dude, what happened here? I heard that women like this exist. The good news is that natural selection will quickly wisk them out of the gene pool. (just kidding, but barely)

Maybe she had some sexual trauma in her childhood, or her home environment gave her an unhealthy (read that shit again and tell me that it is healthy) view towards heterosexual relationships.

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Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

match000

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Hell yeah.

Umm. Player and dating strategy dictates that the guy should never tell the girl he likes her first; she should be showing that she likes him through her actions, such as her leaning her head on his shoulder and stuff, right?


Yes. I thought that the best love/romance relationships (the ones that last, not the fling ones), are the ones where you and the girl connect so well (beyond physical intimacy) that you are like best friends!

This girl was like that. Our interests matched pretty well, she was nerdy and anti-social (like I am kinda), and stuff like that. I literally told her, "man that's great! I love anti-social women". I guess maybe I should stop, b/c they probably turn out to be all like this one.


She's asian (chinese) and her parents are those conservative type asian parents. I think that has something to do with it.

BUT, I know alot of asian girls who do not hesitate to get freaky. Although, I don't know them on that level

Halx

I seriously advise against "firing off one last shot"

Consider this; if she caves in at all, you're going to find yourself in a physical situation with a girl who has a warped (yes, warped) sense of physicality. Filling in the middle with your imagination, at the end of it, regardless of if she enjoyed it or not, you're not coming out on top - she is.

Why? One word. All she has to say is one word to justify herself for the guilt of giving in. Even if it was just a little.

Rape.

Don't believe me? Well, it's your life. I've seen this happen to different people. RUN.

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[Don't Feed The Animals]

abaya

Well, speaking as a former evangelical Christian, I'll tell you that I felt EXACTLY the same way as she did, once. I pulled that line on my poor, poor, blue-balled boyfriend in college, without a clue of the damage it did. (He was my first kiss, when I was 19, and even then it took AGES.) We hardly got to 2nd base, before I started calling that off, too... wanting to "save it for marriage." So yes, girls like that DO exist... especially if they're religious, and especially if they're young, in college, and involved in a religious social group (is she?). My entire uni was Christian, so it felt very justified at the time... but I look back and wonder W T F kind of stick was up my ass, and what was I missing out on??

Anyway, I've been in her shoes, and she's missing out on something great. But you're not going to be the one that teaches her that, I think. It takes a long time to process those things out... I don't know if you really can wait around. Sometimes it never changes, either. (I was lucky.)

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

match000

What you said does make sense, but I don't think she's the type that, if she caves in, would go all the way like that anyways... if she did cave in, the most she would do is probably say "I like you" and then hold hands or something..

That is an interesting point. I will keep it in mind in the future(!). Thanks for the warning..

Nope, she is totally unreligious at all. I have always wondered how the heck do religious people stand that whole waiting till marriage thing... I guess they really have to 'hold it in'.. or maybe they are all like this girl, emotionally asexual..

Even if things do work in my favour (she likes me), I see the problems that will arise. And you guys are right.. gotta RUN

Being guy #2 in friend-zone, I guess I am supposed to 'hate' guy #1, but I hope he realizes what he has and is continuing to get himself into.. ah well.


And thanks to everyone for all your helpful advice.

Nisses

Actually, from reading the whole explanation of her behavious, your hope does translate into hating that guy, cuz he's in for a rough ride.

Chalk up one more for the "RUN!"-side

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Moderation should be moderately moderated.

tecoyah

If Girl Likes Guy #1....and suddenly seems to like Guy #2 as well....the reaction I would have is based on which guy I am:

If I am Guy number one....I will likely leave the situation that she can entertain her desires for guy #2, as I am obviously not worthy of the attention, and dont really care to play second fiddle.

If I am Guy #2....well.....duh, she sure as hell better think I'm better than Guy #1....heh

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

ratbastid

Actually, in this case, if I were Guy #1, I'd be DELIGHTED she's found another patsy. It's be a wide open door to sprint through.

Oh, and dude:

Stop going to those websites. They just cause trouble. You don't really want to be a player, do you? You want to be the good, honest, up-front guy that every girl wants to bang and then marry. Right? So put down the "strategy" and start being yourself. That's the only dating advice anybody really needs.

BigBen

Ratbastid speaks the truth.

I didn't know what you were talking about until Rat mentioned those "rules" and those websites.

Those rules are going to fuck up our generation like Thalidomide.

__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

monkeysugar

I'm going to be blunt.

I don't know the situation or the person enough to know if she's mature enough for a relationship or not, but I've been in those "grey zone" relationship/friendships (are you together, are you not, etc.) more than enough times and personally that's all I can see happening if anything from what you've posted. Been there, done that, would rather take a brick to the head before going through any of that bullshit again. If you're really into her, go for it. Just...keep your options open. I know you like this girl right now, but I challenge you to ask yourself what you are looking for in a relationship, and what you aren't. To simplify this, what's going to make it work for you?

Are you willing to always have to call, always make the move, always make all the effort? Do you really have feelings for this girl, or do you like her because you guys get along and have hung out a little bit? Does that actually sound like a relationship you would want to be in? I know, it's really not like that. This girl's different. This situation is different. I know. I've been there. Keep your options open.

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I've got the love of my life and a job that I enjoy most of the time. Life is good.

match000

Yes, although being myself added with a little zesty cocky + funny helps a great deal with my female acquantanceships

Nah, just no more Mr. Nice Guys for the women. No more Mr. Pushovers.


I guess that's why the guys advised me to put it clearly on the table sooner in the future... to avoid this 'grey' zone :/


Humm. I am looking for physical intimacy, none of which she is going to give :/


Nope, I hate this. Having to put in all the work, all the effort, really really sucks.

*In fact*, she told me straight up that she *expects* the guy to do all the work! Well, she said it casually once, but the next time I brought it up she said she was only joking... but clearly she is not kidding, from everything else she told me.


Hmm.. we get along pretty well, I think I started liking this girl more and more only because she's the first girl that whenever we hang out we just keep going. like, for hours and hours on end.

Thanks, I know what you mean by "This girl's different... Keep your options open". The first girl I liked liked, about half a year ago (which I posted a thread about), really did hurt alot to let go. But, this second girl, who I feel is much better than the first girl, is somehow much easier for me to let go. I think its the combo of the first experience plus the fact it can't really work out (cause I'm leaving for grad school), plus there is already a guy #1 who is already present..



Oh yeah. She also didn't like whispering in public or private. She literally said "it's too intimate."

pretty crazy now that i think about it...

ratbastid

If it's authentic, sure. If it's strategy, you're a phony and a liar. There's a line people cross between creating a winning attitude and working/manipulating a person or situation. Just be sure which side of that line you're on. You're the one who brought up the word "strategy".

Oh my god run away right now. Do you want to be MARRIED to that? Cause you're not getting any unless you marry her.

Sultana

And even if you do marry her, who knows what other "rules" she'd have.

You guys are not compatible beyond intermediate friendship Level 2. And that's perfectly OK. Just let get into someone else's head (and possibly pants) ASAP.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Charlatan

This is the line of a woman who isn't satisfied with you. She doesn't see you as someone she sees as a serious relationship. And yet, she doesn't want to lose you. She likes to keep you around "just in case."

She hasn't involved "all the other stuff" because she figures if she doesn't put out she can get out of the relationship with little head aches when the time comes.

The fact that she *has* a guy number 2 just shows that she is casting around for someone better.

Take our advice: Run. Run now. Don't look back. She is trouble that you don't need.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

mokle

I've been in this exact situation before, unfortunatly. I wish I had this many people telling me to run, I may have ran sooner. Before guy #1 attacked me.

I'm sure your situation is different in that aspect, but you need to get out while you're on top.

Like charlatan said, "just in case". You're the fall back guy. In my case, we actually did have sex together. Didn't change anything, went right back to the cuddle bitch. I got out eventually. Sooner was better than later.

Re: those player sites, FastSeduction et al, those are great for high school students, because they work on girls with that mentality. The only good advise they give is the confidence. Say what you want, be direct, don't play games.

Hope everything works out for you.

__________________
Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

match000

So yesterday I saw her for the last time and I asked her: "So you really believe that a relationship doesn't need to involve physical intimacy?"

And she said: "Yes."

Me: "Why?"

Her: "Then you know that the feelings are true, that the relationship isn't based on any kind of physical lust."


Since I couldn't resist (!), I told her I liked her yesterday. She said, "Didn't I tell you that I liked guy #1? ... Your making things complicated... Maybe if I had met you before guy #1, things would be different."

So she didn't say she liked me. Oh well. The end. She did say, "I don't see why we still can't hang out."

Me: "It'd be kind of awkward wouldn't it?"

Her: "No, not really. Unless you think so."

Me: "yeah, kinda"

To paraphrase the rest, we are still friends but I basically said "have a good life. i'll call you for girl advice in the future."


Oh yeah, I thought I'd do her a favor and I told her that I think she has some problems such as intimacy problems :O



Yeah, I guess I am the fall back guy. Or something like that. Or fall back friend. bleh.

Toaster126

For future refrence, (healthy) women don't want a guy to act like a pussy. They already have one. It's much better to work for what you want and fail that be treading water in unknown territory.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

analog

Dude. I see way too much talking from you, and not nearly enough running.

When your legs can't carry you any further, hail a taxi or charter a boat, depending on how wet it is where you end up.

Toaster126

I have a feeling this may be another case of having to learn from experience rather than listening to the wisdom of TFP.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

match000

So just when I thought it was over, I get an email from her other guy friend:

(paraphrasing to escape the google-bots, sorry for the misspellings, i hate google-bots):

Note: she never called her guy #1 a boyfriend to me. If she did I would NEVER have stuck around.



Hey _,

Please do not let her know I am writing you this email. She's hurt a lot, and I wantd you to know. I do not like to see her down so much, and as her freind, I wantd to let you know how much yuo took from her. I know how hard it can be to have feelings for a person, with no reciprocation, but I think your decision to not hang out with her is unfair towards her. From waht I know, you will be going to grad school this fall, and she told me you do not do longdistance. So, I do not understand why you had to let her know now, just months b4 you leave, of your feelings beeyond friendship for her. If she could reciprocate the feelings, the relationship wouldn't go far anytime soon because you will be leaving soon. As it is, because she has a boyfreind allready, you haven't done anything except taking away a friendship she very dearly held. If she did not tell you this, you should know that she very much valued the time both of you spent wiht each other. When she imagined college, she thought of doing the things both of you did togehter, and she really doesn't have anyone else as close of a freind as you with whom she can hangout with so very much.

When she explaind her feelings, she was almost bruoght to tears. And for waht? I do not see why for the next few moonths you cannot spend time wiht her so that she can look bak on this summer's friendshp with fondness.

It's not all this easy, I kno, as emotions nevr are, I thougth you should know that she took it prety hard.


Don't let her kno I wrote you this. She did not ask me to speak with you. She only told the story to me and expresed her sorow when we were hanging out the other nite. I hope both of you can enjoy togehter, rather than separate, these last couple of moonths with each other.


- S.

bermuDa

Seems that laying your cards on the table was a death-knell for your friendship. I don't understand why some people can't be satisfied with friendship; you needlessly complicated your life and hers, first by desiring someone you knew couldn't satisfy your needs, then by professing your feelings for her, already aware that her feelings for you were platonic.

In other words, you disregarded the overwhelming opinion of the people trying to help you in this thread, and it seems to have backfired on you. You've completely walked into this, and have done irreparable damage to your friendship. Having read the previous posts, this seems to have been a foregone conclusion. Just out of curiosity, is this the outcome you desired?

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Nisses

"Oh yeah, I thought I'd do her a favor and I told her that I think she has some problems such as intimacy problems :O"

favor my ass.

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Moderation should be moderately moderated.

match000

Ok. I'll admit it. I'm a total retard.

I didn't think it would be such a big deal . I mean, if she only liked me platonically, then what's the big deal? Just brush it off and we can continue being friends, its not like she just lost her one and only one forever .


Oh my god, I just looked at her blog thingie. Her latest entry is pretty sad, and it looks like she had a meltdown:

"It's not fair, I don't get it."
"Even if u try, things wont be the same any more"
"Did I make a mistake?"
"Guys are really stupid."
"My heart really hurts."



I didn't know that people who weren't in love could take these things so seriously... so I'm in idiot. Shoot me..

Wait a sec.. I'm the one who got rejected romantically.

I should be the one hurting!!! Not her!!

ratbastid

No no NO! Don't you dare feel guilty about this, you did NOTHING wrong.

Know why she's so upset? Because you called her on boxing you in. She had it all set up for you to be her bitch for the summer, to keep playing you like the guppy you are. You pulled the rug out from under that, and she's upset about it.

Notice that she looks like the victim and you look like the bad guy. That's not an accident. She's going to set this thing up so that she comes off getting the pity and you get the scorn. You probably could have guessed that she'd do that beforehand, though. Don't play that game with her.

Also don't be strange around her. SHE'S the one saying your friendship is over and then blaming you. You'd still hang out with her, right? You've got the other emotions expressed and sorted out, and you can go back to being friends, as far as you're concerned. That's what you've said here, right? So who's ending the friendship, really?

Sultana

I think it's kinda odd that her boyfriend (or what passes for her boyfriend, I *guess*) is wanting you to spend time with her, even though he knows you have feelings for her. And that neither she nor he seems remotely concerned about your feelings AT ALL. They both just seem to want you around because it's convenient for her. If she was really your friend, and a mature person, she'd be a little less self-centered, I'd imagine.

I dunno. It's a strange situation all the way around, and I continue to recomend that you stay away from it and find others who think more like you do.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.