Wild Night Guilt
 

I don't know anyone in real life I can share this with at this point, but the past few days have been emotional torture for me so I'm turning to you for what will hopefully be... well at this point I don't really know what I hope it will be or what to expect in response.

Earlier this week, I was experiencing some of the lowest self-esteem I have had in a while - words like lonely, undesirable, unpretty, frustrated etc all come to mind but are wholly inadequate for how I felt at the time. I went to the supermarket intending to buy a bottle of tequila, but instead found myself in front of the condom rack actually considering something I had thought about, even fantasised about, many times without ever thinking I'd get to the point where I would act on and go through with it.

I guess that night I got to that point.

I purchased a twelve pack of condoms, went to somewhere I knew the chances of anyone recognising me would be minimal (hint: lots of tourists, about to leave the country via airborne transport), and approached random unaccompanied guys to have sex in the toilets. The first guy was the most difficult, from just approaching him to afterwards when I stood there wondering what the hell was wrong with me and why I was doing it, and after that I felt like I just became numb emotionally and the time between finishing with one guy and locking a cubicle door with another shortened.

After just over four hours, the pack of condoms was empty, I headed back home and cried until late into the night. I felt wretched - dirty and cheap and no more attractive than before I had hooked up with twelve strangers I didn't care about, and actually felt physically repulsed by in a few cases. Confusingly, I both felt incredible regret for having done it, and an ache to do it again to see whether it would work this time. I was angry and bitter towards the men for doing this to me, and towards myself, who I knew was actually to blame.

What makes this worse is that I can't tell anybody. If I had previously heard of someone else doing the same, I wouldn't have thought very highly of them and consequently I can't imagine anyone else thinking differently of me.

It's been two days and I haven't been able to get much work done, have no appetite, and the temptation to do something similar again is almost unbearable. I want to scream.

Wow. Quite a story there Sharon. I can't really associate, but I can say I've wanted to do what you've done, but always knew I couldn't because I wouldn't be able to stand the guilt.

I find it interesting that you admit feeling guilt. Guilt isn't a popular emotion here on TFP. Very few people will admit to feeling it. They may be genuinely telling the truth, that they have lost the capacity to feel guilt for what they know is wrongdoing, which I find hard to believe...

I suggest you answer for yourself why you feel guilty about what you did. Why should you feel guilty for having consentual sex with 12 strangers in a bathroom stall? Do you think that what you did is wrong? Wrong by what standard? A moral code? Whose? Yours? I am not trying to mock your pain, but rather help you to work through it. I hope that sentiment comes across.

These are just some things you could think about, and I'd love to hear your response.

I'd say that what you did is what you did. Guilt aside, you might wanna look into the low self-esteem rather than your wild night.

Fix that and I think the wild night will be a thing from the past.

What I can tell you, is "do it again to see if it works this time" will never work.

It's not something that will boost your self-esteem, and even helps to lower it, as you said yourself.

Stop and think for a minute here. Does not the simple fact you feel this way about this "Wild" adventure make you something of a better person? Having experienced this situation, and showing regret/remorse shows me there is a person worthy of respect in my eyes. It takes guts to act on impulse in this world, and though this particular impulse might be.....different, the underlying mentality is an excellent feature in personality.
I would like to see you use this part of yourself directed towards something more productive, more enhancing for your self-esteem. Everyone meets the face of depression in this life, and has to deal with the demons of inner doubt, but not everyone Uses this to become a better person.....I think you will.

I think this would be a fantasy of many peoples. Whether they go ahead and act it out or it just stays as that - a fantasy, is something I myself probably wouldn't have the guts to do. But as Daoust said, who are you hurting? Are you in any sort of relationship to make you have this guilt? If you're not, why should you feel guilty? You were, from what you've said above, very responsible and rational about it. If that's your thing and you're not hurting anyone and you're being protected, you have nothing to feel guilty about.

If on the flip side, you're feeling really down and just want to feel loved, then this is not going to fill an empty void. In the interim of course it will. But really, just enjoy the experience for what it is and don't read anything into it. Any bet that's what the guys did.

Look, in one sense, there's nothing wrong with what you did. People do things like that. The act itself isn't a problem.

The thing to be looking at is why you were doing it. You were looking to fill a hole in your self-image, and you did it in a way that left you with less respect for yourself, not more. That's the thing to be dealing with here--the self-destructive nature of this thing. Not that the ACT is necessarily self-destructive--if you loved doing it and were excited about doing it again, that'd be totally fine with a lot of us here at TFP; frankly, we've heard weirder things. It was the intent behind it the act that was self-destructive.

The fact that you then thought about doing it again--like it would work the next time--smacks of addictive thinking. In fact, the thoughts and feelings you describe are classic sex addict motivation. I strongly suggest you find a professional cousellor or therapist to discuss these issues with.

That is all I could say about this. I've been trying to think of what to tell you since last night when I read your OP.

Nothing you did was wrong - but your motivations and reasons sound unhealthy. Please talk to someone who deals with self-image issues and addictions issues professionally.

Ratbastid said it all... listen to him, and get some help.

But one sentence I focused on was this one: What did you mean by "whether it would work this time?" What is "it," and if it "worked," what do you think it would feel or look like? I think this would be a good point to begin with, in counseling... what did you have in mind as "working" for this experience, and why did you feel like it didn't happen the first time?

You can't fill that hole in your self-concept with penis, however fun (or not fun) that may be. You need to work on youself, and the best way I can see to do that would be with the help of someone who is trained to do that. It sounds like you have a lot of negative self-talk going on. I have a friend who was depressed for a very long time that did that, and once she started talking to a therapist she got her issues worked out the way she wanted to and she is much better for it.

Personally I think there is nothing inherantly wrong about what you did. I think that your reasons for doing it are what are causing you the most guilt. Others here have said it better than I could have. Work through your self-esteem issues and forget about this adventure. I wouldn't try it again, at least not until you have your self-esteem and depression problems worked out.

I find that having sex with multiple people or strangers gives me an adrenaline high as well as other feel-good hormones that make me feel good. It's putting a finger in the dike but you gotta pull that finger out eventually and those emotions will flood back in undealt with and make you feel worse than before.

I agree with others that you should seek counseling to help you work through things. Good Luck

It doesn't matter if you use sex, drugs, alcohol, shopping, eating, people to numb it; one has to deal with the situations and emotions of life.


Key to Serenity

Thanks for all your responses - I'm continually impressed by the clarity of thought that runs through even seemingly polarised opinions here on TFP.

I don't really know what it is I am feeling guilty about. If I am really honest with myself, I am probably more worried what others would think of me if they knew. I know we are all supposed to live by our own compass and all that, but it is likely a part of my self-esteem issues that I am bothered about whether my friends, family, colleagues, or even other strangers would lose respect and affection for me.

On the question of whether (and why) I feel it was wrong, I don't really know how to define "wrong". It's just not what good girls are supposed to do, and I've always been a "good girl" in the eyes of those around me, and have had to try to keep it up to keep them happy... little do they know what goes on in my head.

I know doing it again won't work (at making me feel better about myself), at least not long term. In the midst of the experience, there was a huge rush in walking on the wild side, the thrill of being a "bad girl" at last, the physical pleasure that I derive from being in discomfort. It's a bit like eating very rich chocolate or something - you know you shouldn't, but it feels good, and for some reason, knowing you will regret it later makes you want it more. Although this is probably the craziest thing I've done thus far in terms of quantity, I have done other things before on (on a smaller numerical scale). And there's a lot more where this fantasy came from, a side of myself I have struggled to tame.

I am somewhat terrified of counsellors and therapists and "getting help". I don't like the idea of formally acknowledging that I am screwed up, although it is painfully obvious that I am... and I don't like the idea of facing anyone and telling them what I think about, without the benefit of anonymity. My mother for one would have a heart attack (and disown me with her dying breath) if she ever found out.

oh god Sharon - you're not screwed up. You said it yourself. You wanted to walk on the wild side for a while. There's nothing wrong with that. You didn't hurt anyone. We all need to let loose every once in a while. It's only the method we choose that's different. For you it was this, I certainly don't frown on it and even if I did, it's not my business right? Go and enjoy I say.

Okay, Sharon... You may not like this, but I'm going to stand by my earlier suggestion that you have a professional help you look into whether this is sexual addiction or not.

I say that because the tone of your second post was radically different from your first post, and it was the tone of an addict justifying their addiction and convincing others and themselves that it's all right.

Again, I have no problem with the things you did. But I think that there's an attitude or belief structure underlying your choice to do those things that you'd be well advised to take a very close look at.

Hi Sharon,

I haven't posted on these boards in a while and being a fairly conservative dude I was shocked that you did what you did. It's cool in someways but when you examine what led you to the point of wanting to do that it's disturbing. though I have a very active imagination, I imagine by the 4th time a very sad young lady approaching someone and that someone not answering your silent plea for help and just doing it for his own satisfaction.

I think further exploration should be considered in the woulda coulda shoulda aspect of this... as in... What would have happenend if one of the gentlemen declined your offer but agreed to have a Latte with you? What would have happened if he would have taken a deeper interest in you? I don't think you would have made it through your box of condoms that night.

A person who wants to do something justifies it before doing it.

Someone who's trying to be alright with something justifies it afterwards.

the addict analogy is on point and I do agree, you should try to seek out some help professional or amatuer (12 step program) to figure out the underlying issues.

So you did something that you were raised to think was wrong as a big secretive "fuck you" to everyone who told you it is. This isn't the problem, the problem is that you thought it would make you feel better about yourself and it did the opposite. I wouldn't see any reason for concern if you ended up feeling good about it considering that you took reasonable precautions to be safe, but it looks to me like you're trying to prove to yourself that you can do and get anything you want in an attempt to boost self-esteem, and then feeling worse about yourself becase you subconsicoiusly feel that something that you think is wrong (even if you don't want to think it is) is the best way to prove something to yourself.

You don't have to be afraid of them. They are trained to help you make your life better... and who doesn't want a better life? You don't need to be "screwed up" to gain from seing a therapist. You just have to be human.

You are human, right? :hmm:

Seeing a therapist is your best course of action, Sharon- and again, not because you think you're "screwed up", but because they can help root out the real issue here. It's obvious that the impulses you're having are stemming from your low self-esteem. You're thinking that having random men have sex with you will somehow prove that you're attractive. As you saw, it doesn't work that way.

Your best bet is to seek this help in identifying the underlying issues from a professional. Lots and lots of people go to some sort of therapy for all sorts of reasons. Identifying the cause of the feelings you're experiencing is important, before you continue to be destructive towards yourself. The therapist is likely going to ask about the motivations behind the sexual encounter you had, maybe if you have a history of sexual abuse from your past, and why you feel so low about yourself.

The best thing any person can do for themselves is recognize a problem, and seek to fix it. No one can help themselves out of everything; we all need a helping hand from time to time. :)

I second this. I was very against seeking therapy or help from professionals. I'm a very stubborn person who is terrified of looking weak. And to admit that I might have to go to therapy was hard for me to do. But it doesn't mean that you are weak or crazy. It means that you care about yourself and you are doing what needs to be done to fix whatever problems you realize exist.

I think that self-esteem is the major issue here and it's hard to get over this by yourself. You need to go and figure out why you have low self-esteem and why you are doing destructive behavior. I'm not saying that what you did is wrong, but it can have dire consequences and if you are doing it to try to help your self-esteem...it's probably not going to help, but make it worse. Get the help you need and you will feel a lot better about yourself and situation.

Sharon,

I have expertise in psychiatric evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment. The story you just described is evidence of bipolar disorder. Bipolar disorder has two poles: depression and mania (or hypo-mania). Most people with bipolar disorder suffer from moderate to severe depression about 80-90% of the time in any given 1 year period (your complaints about self-esteem suggest you suffer from depression), and cycle into mania or hypo-mania (hyper-sexuality is a CLASSIC sign of bipolar mania) about for about 10-20% of the time within that same year. Your story is not at all "wierd" or "strange." In fact it is not at all uncommon among people who have the disorder. One of my patients was a beautiful, Yale-educated daughter of state Senator who wound up prostituting herself in a crack house while in a manic phase one time (and she didn't even need the money).

You should seek treatment and counseling, because bipolar disorder tends to get progressively more severe if left untreated. Also, individuals tend to do things while in a manic phase that can really wreck their lives.

It is not possible to reliably diagnose someone based on an anecdote on a message board, but the story you described is a trademark sign of the disorder. There are great new treatments available, and some very reliable old treatments as well.

If you would like to PM me with any questions, please feel free to do so.

I agree with ratbastid that this sounds like a form of sex addiction. I have read about this and sex acts as a "comfort" though it doesn't actually give you what you may want (something like comfort eaters), which could be anything from attention, love, someone to stand by you and make you feel loved, or just to boost your self-esteem. Sex addiction is often linked to other factors in your life, like s trauma of some kind. Seeking counselling is hard because it means you have to finally admit to yourself that there is a problem. But that is also the first way to start sorting it out. I hope you look for help soon. Till then, please feel free to share with us on TFP and we will help you in what we can.

It reminded me of manic depression \ bipolar disorder \ whatever new name they are calling it also. However, I'm not a professional shrink, I just pretend. :D

Okay... Just cause I'm the fucked up one around here...


Let me get this straight, you just walked up to random men and asked if they would have sex with you in a bathroom stall for free? In my book, that's pretty badass. Every person here has been sitting in a coffee shop, in line at the post office, or where ever else you can think of and thought about this. I'm dreamed about women coming up to me and askin' me this. I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense here but... I'm a little excited.

If you don't feel good about what you did... seek professional help. If you think your regret will fade in tim... let it go. No need to dwell on something like this. You were safe... I know most people wouldn't have used condoms. I'm pretty sure that would have been the last thing on my mind.

And if you do it again... you know as well as I do... it's not gonna be the same. And if it is... you have an addiction you need to work out.


And all I can think about is... I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

i totally did not want to be the first asshole to say this. so i'll just second this now.

So you did something that lowered your self-esteem because you had low self-esteem? Duh?

A long time ago--I was significantly under-age at the time-- I hooked up with a guy (in an Air Force uniform) at an interstate rest area. I still remember it was the first rest area in Missouri on southbound I-29. I mostly just wanted to prove that I could get a guy, and it was just a quick blowjob in his car. Afterwards. I thought "Sheesh, what the hell did I do that for?" But a couple times a year, when I drive down that road, I think about it, and wonder if he still thinks about that slutty sixteen year old at the rest area.
It also seems somewhat odd to me that in four hours--that's 240 minutes, half a workshift, in other words, a long time--that at least one person, who just wanted to take a pee, wouldn't go to security, the bouncer, the manager, whatever, and say "There's a couple screwing in the men's (or ladies) room." I may be more judgemental than some, but it seems to me that this behavior would look a little "off plumb" even to a man willing to take advantage of it. Especially in a bar where--in four hours--one might go back to the same restroom several times.
Lindy

Thanks again for your replies.

The bipolar post caught my eye in a big way. I felt like you were describing me. I will look into seeing a professional - I don't know how it works here in the UK and whether I will be able to afford it.

I slipped again tonight. I went to a bar with a beautiful friend of mine, who got pulled just before closing time and went home with an attractive banker. I approached a middle-aged man (nothing wrong with middle-aged men by the way, this one just happened to overweight and sleazy as hell) who had tried to chat my friend up earlier, asked him when he had last had sex (the look on his face alone was worth it. The answer was four years), and then told him it was his lucky night. I didn't have a condom so he had to settle for feeling around in my ass with a finger and getting a blowjob.

There is a bit of history to me which may be relevant. When I was 18, I decided to assert my independence and spend a year backpacking around the world. It didn't take long before I realised I had no idea how to handle money or cope in foreign countries, and one night, completely broke, I walked into a club which said they were looking for girls. I ended up working there for two months. Let me just say that if you know any girls who are considering stripping, please try to persuade them not to. I was never forced to have sex with a customer, but at least at the club I was at, touching was allowed to the point where it was more or less sex to me anyway.

I never told my family what I did, and only a couple of my closest friends know.

I am aware that it is probably a part of why I act and feel the way I do, I just don't understand why. I would have thought that having done it, the opposite would be true, sex would be less of a big deal to me now... yet I find myself constantly looking for those situations again - with someone I'm repulsed by, him doing unwanted things to me that give me almost unbearable discomfort, like a moth being repeatedly drawn to a flame it knows will singe its flesh.

Wow, I've just read that last line again. It sure sounds a lot like I am an addict. This is too fucked up. Oh hell, I'll read this again in the morning when I haven't drunk so much.

Oh by the way lindy, it was an airport. There were lots of toilets. No one appeared to care whether we were in the ladies or the gents, and there were disable toilets toon which were even easier

Don't fall into the trap of letting your past dictate your future. You can't change what has happened in your past, but you certainly can decide what you do now.

Umm, Sharon, I hate to be the master of the obvious and point this out but.... There's these things called venereal diseases. They like moist, warm places. Like the obvious; vagina and anus but there's also the mouth. Giving a blowjob to a total stranger (who has no obligation to tell you if he's got anything) does not protect you just because he didn't fuck you properly. Yeah, the risk is less but it's still there. You're beginning to go down a very dark road that won't lead to any pretty places and definitely not to ones that will make you feel more valued by others. Get help now. I agree that there is nothing wrong with doing what you're doing but be careful. You don't know what kind of guys are out there. All you need is one guy whose idea of sex is drastically different from anything you would consider and you're toast.

One is responsible for there own actions whatever they may be. I was a good boy and found love, lust, free-spiritness, thrills and rushes in the "BOTTLE"...I got away with it for many years and was functioning. But then I crashed, due to continually trying to justify and extend the risk factors involved..

Cheap, smelly vial,anonymous, etc..sex hunting for my own personal down-low answers to the "why" me questions.

No own could answer those questions I had but me, no one, people tried, I went to treatment and did "quit those behaviours"... but still my soul was empty.

The most important single thing I did an found by stopping, was to find clearity..I self evaluated myself, hard very hard...And then and them, was I able to start off freshly. From scratch, I was slowly able to peel away the layers of stupidity of my actions, strive to actively seek positive creative influences into my life and repair the damages I have done to myself and others.

Just one mans journey, and letting you know that your guilt can be conquered, if YOU, choose to

Again, for those who base their judgmental opinions on a limited cache of experience and information: *if* the behavior is due to bipolar mania, then one's ability to control unhealthy impulses is severely compromised, and can only be sustained through the use of medication.

There is, indeed, a degree of culpability on the part of the actor, but it is of a different nature: in realizing that (a) the behavior is self-destructive, and (b) that he or she is unable to control it, the actor's culpability is in failing to seek out the appropriate help (in this case, a competent psychiatrist) to prevent the disorder from having a much greater impact on his or her life than it would otherwise. However, someone with bipolar disorder has no more control over symptoms of mania than a paranoid schizophrenic has over hallucinations and delusions.

Paranoid schizophrenics can take control over their hallucinations and delusions, the same way a bipolar person can take control over their own behaviour. It's a matter of self awareness and understanding. A therapist can help a person reach that level of understanding - but all it takes is someone with the ability to look deeply and truthfully into themselves - and accept whatever it is they come to find there.

Coddling someone who has reached rock bottom like this just perpetuates the undesirable and life-threatening behaviour - you need to be honest, and firm, and have a kind heart.

So madp if you misunderstood my post, I'm sorry - I feel for you Sharon, I really do - but you can't allow yourself excuses - you do need to change your life for the better - cheap, humiliating sexual encounters are not going to do that for you. You really do deserve better - no matter what you may think.

It sounds like you are trying to offer a sincere and honest endorsement for self-responsibility, and I agree with the spirit of this message. However, when it comes to bipolar disorder and schizophrenia being controlled with insight and acceptance, you are completely misinformed. Your statements on this issue are factually incorrect.

Insight, honesty, and taking responsibility for what one *can* control is a significant part of combating these disorders, but they are not effective treatments for psychosis or mania. Even the brilliant Harry Stack Sullivan, using his genius skills at psychotherapy, had very modest success using intensive, 6-8 hours per day, "talk therapy" in simply reducing the number and intensity of delusions experienced by schizophrenic patients under his care. These (bipolar mania and psychosis) are biological disorders with strong genetic underpinnings, and you can no more "talk" or "will" them away than you could cancer. This is not a matter of coddling or buying into their "victimhood." It is a simple matter of scientific fact.

Hey Sharon, I don't have any advice but I do wish you good luck in figuring this all out. Its certainly troubling to you so keep looking until you get this resolved. I think we have all pushed our limits at one time or another. I know I have. Sometimes I wonder just what in the hell I was doing at the time. At others, I just kind of grin.

Good luck!

Sharon, If memory serves me right you are the one who started that thread titled Preserving a Platonic Friendship in March. Maybe the reason why that guy friend of yours never tried to have a romantic relationship with you is because he saw that you had the potential to have a "wild adventure" as you described in the first post of this thread, and he didn't want to get involved with someone who'd engage in such risky activity.

Maybe the reason why this male friend of yours---whom you described as a good catch but whom you really didn't seem to have any genuine attraction---didn't date you is because he did see that you have very low self-esteem in yourself and knew that you might have gone on such a "wild adventure" behind his back if at any one point you were feeling down and couldn't find comfort in him.

I think you should talk to a professional because I fear your feelings of low self-worth might drive you to do something more rash and potentially fatal in the future. Also, I'm curious as to the kind of guys you go for and whether that has anything to do with your feeling unpretty and undesirable. Somehow I have the feeling that you go for guys who treat you badly because they're a challenge and you think the "nice guys" like that male friend of yours that I mentioned earlier are too weak and boring for you. Maybe it's time you change your circle of friends and start hanging around people who treat you right and respect you... maybe you'll learn to appreciate and respect yourself more.

I think if you like hard enough there is a path that allows you to have your cake and eat it to here - there is generally ways to engage in swinging or permiscuous sexual behaviour and greatly mitigate the risks through taking precautions, seeing a doctor regularly etc. and there is definately no reason that it has to loose the addrenaline rush. I go into bouts of depression semi-regularly (often around winter as many other people do) and I find that breaking the routinue of my day to day schedule is a very good way to do break the depression. I also believe that sometimes in order to achieve something you feel strongly about you need to forgo self-respect, or concern for your safety, etc. etc. but I must stress that is only in exceptional circumstances and obviously can't be a routinue in your life. Your mileage may vary, but I also believe that evolution has made a path for everyone to be happy.

I don't wish to offer any opinion on whether what you did or whether you should seek help because I don't feel qualified but I will say that I have some relatively unusual sexual tastes and I have managed to feel perfectly satisfied so far in a monogamous relationship. Which is not to say that I'm suggesting that a monogamous relationship is the right path for you - only that there is probably a safe path for you to satisfy these desires.

On depression - eat. You won't necessarily feel better but its a strong precursor to getting out of it especially if you eat healthy. Try a banana.

Yeah, I was definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time... hahaha. But on a more serious note, I don't see anything technically wrong with what you did. However, modern society would shun this act. Does it make it wrong because of what it was in essence or what society has deemed taboo? That is for you to decide. Every act is benign within itself, your reaction to it is what determines the connotation. Once you acknowledge this then you can change your whole view points on events.

You're a risk taker, just as I am. I've had a couple of situations where I've done something wild (not nearly as wild as your experience) and I've asked myself "why did I do this?" Obviously I did it because I felt it was the right thing to do at the time it happened, so I accept that and move on. Atleast it makes me feel better, maybe it will for you too.

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