NotAnAlias

Ok, i'll disclaim now that this thread isn't really about sex, more relationship woes. A friend pointed me in this direction with the highest of praise, although i know there's not much that can be done, thoughts comments opinions and previous experiences would be really, really appreciated.

Ok, so I'm 19, and so is my girlfriend, who we can call T. Imaginative, i know :P

We met about this time a year ago, but i never really gave her much of a second thought until chance (fate?) meant that we ended up on the same train home from Uni together once a week. We got to know each other really well, and i think i should say now, the wonderful T is a flirt from hell, she calls herself a cocktease lol.

So as a result of her flirtations (me not being particularly experienced in the field of relationships and women, i'd had one girlfriend before her, didn't last long, beside the point really) i go the feeling she dug me. It took me nearly a month to work the courage up to ask her out, but i managed it. Which is when she told me that she didn't want a boyfriend...told me i was wonderful funny etc etc but wasn't really ready to go out with anyone at the moment, but gave me the impression that she did feel something, but wasn't able to start at the moment.

About 4 or 5 months pass, myself pining and being generally unsure of how to go about it, but feeling an immense attraction to her. We kept in contact, and it always seemed we were on the verge of becoming more than friends. So one day i visited her at work which i had done before a couple of times. But afterwards, i managed to confront her and talk to her, which took a lot, i'm not that confident. Anyway, i basically told her that i adored her, that i'd treat her like a princess, and that i felt that we could have a really great relationship, and whenever she was ready for a guy, i'd be there for her.

She responds to this in the same way, giving me the impression that she was interested, but not just yet. I left it about 2 weeks, and when i was going to ask her about it again, she surprises me with the most wonderful evening - a picnic and tickets to a concert by a band we both loved. Just totally out of the blue. It was a great night, but i was still unsure what it meant. A day or so pass, and she asks what i'm doing that night, long story short, we eventually get together, without either really acknowledging it at first.

Sorry this is rambly D:

Anyway, the most amazing relationship blossoms, we click in ways i've never felt were possible - utterly perfect for one another. We get a little sexual - both of us totally inexperience (sexually, she had 3 previous boyfriends, all of which she ended because she "withdrew" from them, feeling trapped, apparently what she does, more later), we experimented with mutual (handjobs, fingering) and oral sex (she didn't like me going down on her so much, but we had amazing success with my index finger :P). It started to dominate a little bit, but we basically agreed we had to stop, we weren't ready for that, let alone going any further. Although i think the damage may have been done. She is a highly sexual beast, that is, when she feels sexual. She can be as cold as ice on the sexual front for months and then just turn it on and this rampant beast explodes, with the most amazing effects.

Everything seems great, however, looming on the horizon is something she signed up to at the beginning of the year - 3 months overseas working in america, run by a thing called CCUSA.

Now this is where i should probably say, she wasn't and isn't the happiest of gals. She is a fitness fanatic, get addicted to things easily, like going to the gym. Mixed with eating issues, she was badly underweight, which righted itself about 1.5 months into our relationship. She never had a high opinion of herself, but is strong, independant and doesn't like feeling attached or dependant. I think that might have something to do with why she flirts so much. The flirting doesn't bother me, i trust her entirely. She doesn't (or didn't) drink, wasn't into premarital sex (actual intercourse) a pretty good girl normally. She was a little depressed, or would swing that way sometimes, crying, moping, sleeping etc. All the pressures of her life were compounded by her thinking her life was boring, and stress from her family, especially her mother over her mental state.

All of these factors i think pretty much pushed onto the plane. She had it organised before we started going out, but i think if she had tried to pull out because of me and us, i would have slapped her and told her not to be silly.

So yes, the end of november last year marked just shy of 4 months of the most wonderful time we've ever had. Our relationship was turning into something we could both see lasting a considerable time - we had dropped the L word and meant it - it just came out one time, we were lying on my bed, kissing, and holding one another, and her leaving caught up on us - tears streaming down each others cheeks she told me that she "loved me so much" and i turned to her and looked her in the eye and told her sincerely that i loved her too.

In retrospect, i should have seen something was up when we talked about what we were going to do and she said "people change". They do, but i thought what we had would be fine, we'd miss each other, and when she returned, we agreed to get back together, or give it a good proper go anyway.

The end of november also marked the day she left for a very popular ski field in southern vermont, working on the ski lifts and staying at a lodge for all the employees of this particular resort not too far away.

This is where things started to change.

About a month in, she suddenly feels uncomfortable about saying i love you on the phone, doesn't say it in her emails. We hadn't overused it, i don't think. Only a handful of times before she left, and the end of emails and phone conversations after she had left. I made a bit of an issue out of it, which was a bit silly, she said that she couldn't get privacy to say it, but the real reason emerges later.

Her emails get less and less attached - just short replies under the paragraphs of my emails. She does it to her family as well, i should add.

She also called me one night, at about midnight her time, after/during some employee party, and confessed that she had been drinking. She had drunk previously, but that was New Years 04/05, and she said she'd never ever do it again, and was serious about sticking to it. So it was quite a shock, since i had stopped drinking as well, a large amount for her i have to say. When i querried her about drinking and how she was drunk (i'd never seen it) she said it wouldn't happen. Yeah so anyway, i got quite jealous, but i didn't expect it to continue. It did. Now every week there are parties, plural, and she drinks at pretty much everyone as far as i can gather. I make a big deal out of it, but it is, since it was something i couldn't see her shifting on. I guess that's the beginning of the changes.

She also becomes crazy about skiing, which is ok, i guess - can't say i'm a huge fan, but i've not experienced it really - only once.

She then gets cagey about things concerning guys and issues up there. Which is kind of a big thing, since we've always told each other everything, things we'd not considered telling anyone else before. So you can see what i start to imagine when she refuses to tell me why she's in a bad mood because of some shithead guy. And you know, guys being guys, she's constantly being hit on, and knowing her, she probably asked for it, all her own flirting. Again, i trust her entirely, yeah i'm a jealous, even though i try not to bed, but i mean, this girl is my entire world, and she's off partying and having a wild time, of course i want to be there with her.

Now this is when things get bad.

I miss her, an absolutely huge amount. Huge. I think about her constantly. She then tells me that she doesn't miss anything or anyone. Which naturally includes me. I didn't think too much about it at first.

But over the last few days, today especially, she said some things that really hurt.

She was saying (on msn messenger i should add) that she would say goodbye - end us altogether - if it wasn't that it'd hurt me so much because she apparently felt nothing.

Today she tells me that part of her doesn't want to break up with me because she's scared she won't find a guy she clicked with so well, but the other part of her is saying that she "can't continue to go out with me", that she "doesn't like me, like me" that she "isn't feeling the same" as she did and that "at present, we aren't anything more than friends".



Ok i'm quite tired, and i hope i've managed to get everything out without losing the plot or missing details out.

I just found it uncomprehendable that she could go from loving me (i mean, it all sort of fell out of her mouth, which means that she's not just saying it right?) to not having anything there to see me as anything more than a friend.

I mean, the wonderful thing about us, is that we are best friends as well as boyfriend and girlfriend.

As i said, i'm not sure what i'm expecting to be told, i just want to know if anyone has been in this position, if they have any words of advice or anything at all, sympathy even :P

The thing is, she wasn't really super keen to begin with, she said, but let it go, and obviously things went well for her, although she said today that "things started to get worse" - she said i am emotionally needy, and my dependancy was frustrating at times. Which i'll admit to that, i adore this girl more than i can express with words, and i'm no chump with the english language :P She also said that our sexual activities, as limited as they were, were damaging. She had talked about stopping them, and i underestimated the effect they had, and tried to almost talk her out of stopping, which i am so ashamed about in retrospect. Although that time of life was very stressful, exams, her leaving etc.

She had a headache and a rather bad day today, which never helps matters does it?

I sent her an email reminding her of her comments about breaking up on msn (she wasn't going to have a serious conversation like that from vermont detached further by msn messnger) and to promise me that we'd give it a go when she returned. I have no reply as yet, i don't expect one for a little while.

She's basically completely detached, and doesn't want to come home, and she said that if she didn't feel attracted to me anymore, then there wasn't any point in continuing if she didn't.

She has also said that she's no longer the person who left, but when i have talked to her, i have noticed that a lot of her previous issues are still there, she calls herself a bitch far too often for my liking, and seems to be lacking self respect as she did before she left.

I'm just struggling to understand how it happened, and what it means. She means a huge amount to me, and i was sure the feelings were mutual.


If anyone has been in a similar position - time distance and a new life fucking something really good up, a SO leaving overseas, coming back different, and trying to continue a relationship, you know, anything remotely similar to what i've written, i'd really really like to hear about it.

I apologise profusely for the stupid length of this post; though typing it has been rather cathartic i have to say.

Any questions or things you want clarified feel free to ask, as i said, i'm rather tired, long and stressful day, and i could quite easily have missed a few things. Ill give this another read over when i'm sane and rested to make sure i haven't missed anything.

Again so, so sorry about the length, i have a habit of drawing things out lol :P

Cynthetiq

I didn't bother to read the lengthy rambling post not out of disrespect but just short on time this morning.

I had a LD relationship when one still had to use airmail paper to get the cheapest rates for communicating. Today you have IM, email, Skype...

Like all things you learn to deal with it. You learn to adjust your time and schedule to meet theirs.

If it's acceptable to you to wait it out while meeting other compelling women/men then that's great. My wisdom from doing it two times previously is that it's not worth it. Today is my 4 year wedding anniversary and it's not to either of those women.

good luck.

__________________
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little_tippler

Ok, this may seem cruel but I think your grlfriend is a bit immature. She sounds very selfish and like she went along with you because you wanted her to - granted she may have experienced for a brief time the power/good effects your love had on her, but she's not ready for that in her life yet - she wants to have a lot more "fun" than she feels you can provide and she's looking for some sort of exciting life that doesn't really exist. She's had fun for a while with you but now she doesn't know how to tell you she wants you to go away - so she's stringing you along. She has said some very hurtful things and you don't say those things if you really care about someone - even if you no longer love them. She also doesn't sound very balanced and to be blunt, you're probably better off without her. You sound a lot more well-grounded. The fact that she "calls herself a cocktease" isn't amusing at all...I think it's indicative of the type of person she is. Sorry again for the bluntness but I feel that this situation is pretty clear, having been in a similar situation myself.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

abaya

Welcome to the TFP... and yeah, sometimes we just have to be blunt around here. Not to be mean, but sometimes it's the only way to get things across. So here goes.

The girl is trying to break up with you, but she doesn't have the balls to finish it off properly. This is where it's your turn to just accept what she's trying to do and break it off. This is for your own good, man.

I am in a long-distance relationship too, and we know three other couples who are doing the same. For us it is only 3 hours' driving... we have managed for the last 12 months, and have another year ahead of us. We spent 3 months apart last summer when I went to Africa and he was in the US... we missed each other horribly, but that was a good indication that we were doing fine. It was mutual.

For another couple we know, they have each been living in France and the US for the last year, seeing each other every couple of months. They have one of the most committed, exclusive relationships I've seen. They got engaged during that time and they will be getting married later this year, after nearly another year of distance. I have no doubts that their relationship has been strengthened because of the distance, and they have only increased their love for each other.

I should also note that in all of the long-distance situations I know, we are all age 25 and up... the woman getting married this year is 32. There is a hell of difference between 19 and 32. Or even 19 and 26 (my age); I was a total headcase when I was 19, unable to make any kind of rational decision and wrecking at least one relationship. Not to come down on you for your age, but mostly because it sounds like it is the girl who has the problem. She's too immature for you, and she'll hurt you even worse if you don't let go of her now, when she's begging you to do so.

I'm telling you, long-distance IS possible... but your situation just sounds like it can only get worse, friend. Take a clean break and try as hard as you can to move on. If it goes any further, it's going to become verbal/emotional abuse for you, and that ain't right.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

The_Jazz

Long distance relationships are difficult and have a higher rate of failure in my experience. I agree with Abaya that she's probably trying to break up with you but doesn't know how. It also sounds like she has a lot of issues that are making this difficult for her in ways that you and I probably can't understand.

The easy thing to do, for you, is to probably rip the bandaid off and tell her to call you when she finally comes home, if she does, and then proceed on with your life as best you can. It will hurt for a while, but you'll get better and meet someone else who will treat you a lot better.

You could also take the harder route and try to stick it out, but IMO that's just prolonging the heartache and the make it harder to get over. Then again, I'm a faceless troll with pasty white skin sitting my own filth in my parent's basement, just like all the other TFPers.

Seriously, you're the one who has to decide all of this and live through it, not us. As far as I can tell, your love life is just going to suck for the next little while regardless of what you do, so just be ready for that.

Good luck!

robbdn

Ahh... reading this sort of post brings back old pain, and old shame. It sounds like you like your life, it sounds like you have a support network, it sounds like she doesn't. I am in the UK right now, and let me tell you, going to another country can have radical effects and inspire immense changes in people, even when it's going to a country as closely-related as the UK and US.

If you don't like where you were and who you were there, and you go abroad, you're given the chance to start fresh. Nobody knows you, save for the fact that you're from a cool different country, and you get to shape what other people think and know of you completely. If you weren't happy at home, you tend to forget things and adopt things from your new culture to replace it. I'm sure she didn't mean to replace you, but some other parts of her personality that she swapped seems to have created an interface and compatibility problem with you.

You can't stop her from changing, any attempt to do so will just make the wound larger, and the pain more powerful. You can't tell her it's wrong, you can't remind her of what used to be, or of old promises. The past has been forgotten, or rather, ejected to make room for the new. It hurts, but it's far better than the intense jealousy that comes with hanging on.

I know how much it sucks... I know what it is to not be confident, and finally meet somebody who works for you, who you love, and not be able to make it work. Just be careful, because as she changes--for better or worse--there's a real possibility that it will change you too, and not in a good way, because you seem to be fairly happy with who you are at the moment. Don't jeopardize that self-content, because it's hard to get back.

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I'm swimming in the digital residue of a media-drenched world. It's too cold.

BigBen

Here is what Uncle Ben wants you to do:

1. Print your post off. Put it somewhere safe.

2. DO NOT COMMUNICATE WITH THIS GIRL.

3. Go out and get fucked up with your buddies (and if that means drink so much coffee until you start to see into the future, then so be it).

You are in the classical rock and a hard place!! Do you think that those break-up songs you hear on the radio are just made up? Millions upon millions of guys have got fucked over by millions and millions of girls (and vice versa to you gals reading this).

You might be thinking that this has never happened to anyone before, and being in a unique situation might be frightening. I assure you that the road you are on has been walked so many times that the ground is like concrete...

The good news? You are going to meet someone better.
"Ben, How can this be? Weren't you reading when I wrote that this girl is incredible, and perfect, and everything I want in a woman?"
"Yes, my son. I heard you. I want you to know that every woman is different, and although you can't understand it right now, you need to listen: This girl was perfect for you at that stage in your life, and in certain aspects of your life. As you move on, there will be other women who are perfect for you in other stages in your life, and in completely different aspects."
"One woman might expose you to the world of sexual relations. Another woman might show you how to appreciate your surroundings. Another might expose you to the world of art. All of these women will be totally different from each other. All of them will love you in their own way, and you will reciprocate in yours."
"Trying to influence how someone thinks and behaves is very difficult; being in control of your own thoughts and feelings is easier. Not easy, but easier."

When a relationship ends, there is a natural grieving process (believe me on that one...) in which you feel at your absolute worst. Then things get easier. Then you learn how to love yourself. Then you are ready to love someone else. This thing takes time. Don't rush through the stages, or ignore other stages because you think they are too painful. An incomplete grieving process will stay with you, and haunt you, and you will show up to a new relationship with what is called "Emotional Baggage". Do you want to burden someone else with that? Do you want to start a new (and possibly lovely, long-term) relationship with that? Of course not.

Do what makes you happy. Smoke if you smoke, drink if you drink. Hang with the buddies and play videogames until you burn the screen.

I encourage hanging with guy friends, because we need to help each other through this shit. Women help each other with their thoughts and feelings, and I want to state it publicly that men need a support structure similar to that, only with sausage, chili, beer and porno.

When you meet another girl, and you start falling for her, it won't feel the same, nor should it. You have grown, you are in a different point in your life, and this is a totally different girl.

When you do fall for this new girl in the future (and you will, don't worry) I want you to go to the safe place. Pull your post out, blow the dust off of it, and read it. Remember how you are feeling right now, and appreciate how much things have changed.

__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

Impetuous1

Big Ben, that was beautiful and right on the money.

skier

Very nice, BigBen.

I'd just like to add:

1. Do NOT be ashamed about your sexuality. This is her hangup, not yours. Sexual/sensual acts between two trusting, consenting adults (this is my own value judgement here) should be a wonderful, communing, sharing experience; especially in a long relationship. It's a way of expressing your love to one another, as well as being a fun activity to enjoy . I'm just trying to say her perception of sex in your relationship as harmful is only true because she made it so.

2. Listen to bigben

3.
This is natural behavior, and is unrelated to your relationship. Enthusiasm for skiing directly correlates with exposure to the sport.

__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

Toaster126

Dude... end the relationship. As you get more relationships under your belt, your warning bells will start responding to stuff like that. Apparently they aren't calibrated yet.

Also, never be ashamed of your sexuality or sexual desires. Her acceptance and then withdrawl repeated ad nasueam shows she has issues she needs to deal with.

Somehow I get the feeling that you aren't really going to listen to the advice and you'll just get strung along for a while longer before she breaks up with you, so I'll just sigh and point you to what BigBen said rather than restating it and relating my own experiences.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

abaya

Yep. If that's the only thing that having a history of break-ups is good for, it's that... you learn to adjust your sense of how you should be treated. This girl has CROSSED THE LINE of how to treat a boyfriend... and if you love yourself, you would not tolerate it for a day longer than you already have. She is not treating you right. It doesn't matter how much you (think you) love her, or vice versa... people don't treat people like this when they're in a healthy relationship.

Oh, and listen to BigBen. The guy has definitely been "calibrated" and knows his break-up shit.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

NotAnAlias

Thanks for all your help, even though it was things i didn't want to hear lol.

I'd like to thank my uncle ben for some sound rational advice, but i have to say mr toaster is right, i don't think i can follow it through. Not right now at least. While mr ben is speaking rationally, i have no desire to act at all rationally. I know it's delaying the inevitable, but i'm just not ready yet to let it all go. It's not a race after all :P

I'm just having a hard time really believing something coming from half a world away on msn messenger, and if it happens, well, it happens, but i'd rather it happens after she's returned and we can actually talk about it properly (MSN usage for her is plagued by bad connections, bad computers, poor web-based services, and other people demanding use of the computer and watching conversations).

Also, i think i should clarify for the people commenting on being ashamed of my sexuality. I'm not. I can be a horny little bastard, and most of the time i am, but i'm not ashamed about it. Nor my body - I felt secure and safe when we were naked together, and she did too (her comments about certain aspects of my body certainly helped vanquish any lingering doubts :P ).
What i was and am ashamed about is that when she was trying to tell me she wasn't ready and it was affecting her i couldn't accept it and tried to talk her out of it - i wasn't respecting her.

I think we might have had one, maybe two sexual encounters after she voiced her concerns, one of which (also the last time we were together) was a bit funny, i think she felt forced into it...just the whole vibe wasn't right and neither of us were very satisfied afterwards.

Again, thanks everyone, and i apologise for the god-awful typing, at least i made some sense :P

NotAnAlias

Well she just told me she cheated on me.

Once with some guy she hates, he was chasing her and she resisted, then one night she was apparently really drunk and some jamaican guy egged her on to kiss this guy, and she did. A long kiss she said.

And she fell asleep on one of her friend's beds (a guy) watching a dvd, which she'd do with me all the time, and he jumped into bed with her. Only thing that happened is that he kissed her in the morning, and she ran off disgusted. That guy is like 31 years old.

None meant anything, and she apologised profusely, but she was trying not to tell me about it, which isn't good. Although, looking back at emails and conversations, it appears she did want to tell me, she just couldn't.

That, it turns out, is the reason why she's saying she can't continue with me. I'm not mad at her though. I feel a little ill, a little betrayed, but i honestly think i could forgive her, regardless if she deserves it or not.

She said that even if i did, she wasn't sure she could continue with me, said her heart wasn't in it.

I don't know.

Impetuous1

It sounds like it's time to let go if she says her heart is not in it. Also, since she really didn't come out and tell you about it right off the bat is probably a bad sign. It means she was trying to hide it. I've learned the hard way that little phrases like that are a sign that they want out but are being wishy washy. Kissing someone else is not that bad though it definitely is a betrayal. Good relationships thrive on honesty and being up front when a mistake is made. I would probably follow Big Ben's advice. But, if you do stay together, well at least she didn't have sex with them.

NotAnAlias

Yeah, although it's betrayal, it sort of seems harmless. Rationally, i know i should give it up, but something keeps telling me to try. I'd rather make that decision after she's home though.

RCR

When does she come home?

Im really sorry to hear about your troubles,

NotAnAlias

26th of February at 7:30 am.

Thanks, i appreciate it.