U.S. 'unbiased' media ignores U.S. terror plot - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ustwo · 01-15-2006, 01:23 PM

From South Africa

Quote:

Rome - Three Algerians arrested in an anti-terrorist operation in southern Italy are suspected of being linked to a planned new series of attacks in the United States, interior minister Giuseppe Pisanu said Friday.

The attacks would have targeted ships, stadiums or railway stations in a bid to outdo the September 11 2001 strikes by al-Qaeda in New York and Washington which killed about 2,700 people, Pisanu said.

The Algerians, suspected of belonging to a cell established by an al-Qaeda-linked Algerian extremist organisation, the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), were named as Achour Rabah, Tartaq Sami and Yasmine Bouhrama.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/N...855238,00.html

Wow, I didn't hear about that...but wait.

Quote:

The mainstream U.S. media outlets have failed to report a major terrorist plot against the U.S. - because it would tend to support President Bush's use of NSA domestic surveillance, according to media watchdog groups.

News of a planned attack masterminded by three Algerians operating out of Italy was widely reported outside the U.S., but went virtually unreported in the American media.

Italian authorities recently announced that they had used wiretaps to uncover the conspiracy to conduct a series of major attacks inside the U.S.

Italian Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu said the planned attacks would have targeted stadiums, ships and railway stations, and the terrorists' goal, he said, was to exceed the devastation caused by 9/11.

Italian authorities stepped up their internal surveillance programs after July's terrorist bombings in London. Their domestic wiretaps picked up phone conversations by Algerian Yamine Bouhrama that discussed terrorist attacks in Italy and abroad.

Italian authorities arrested Bouhrama on November 15 and he remains in prison. Authorities later arrested two other men, Achour Rabah and Tartaq Sami, who are believed to be Bouhrama's chief aides in planning the attacks.

The arrests were a major coup for Italian anti-terror forces, and the story was carried in most major newspapers from Europe to China.

"U.S. terror attacks foiled," read the headline in England's Sunday Times. In France, a headline from Agence France Presse proclaimed, "Three Algerians arrested in Italy over plot targeting U.S."

Curiously, what was deemed worthy of a worldwide media blitz abroad was virtually ignored by the U.S. media, and conservative media watchdog groups are saying that is no accident.

"My impression is that the major media want to use the NSA story to try and impeach the president," says Cliff Kincaid, editor of the Accuracy in Media Report published by the grassroots Accuracy in Media organization.

"If you remind people that terrorists actually are planning to kill us, that tends to support the case made by President Bush. They will ignore any issue that shows that this kind of [wiretapping] tactic can work in the war on terror."

"The mainstream media have framed the story as one of the nefarious President Bush 'spying on U.S. citizens,' where the average American is a victim not a beneficiary," commented Brent Baker, vice president of the Media Research Center, a Washington, D.C.-based organization dedicated to encouraging balanced news coverage, "so journalists have little interest in any evidence that the program has helped save lives by uncovering terrorist plans."

The Associated Press version of the story did not disclose that the men planned to target the U.S. Nor did it report that the evidence against the suspects was gathered via a wiretapping surveillance operation.

Furthermore, only one American newspaper, the Philadelphia Inquirer, is known to have published the story that the AP distributed. It ran on page A-6 under the headline "Italy Charges 3 Algerians." The Inquirer report also made no mention of the plot to target the U.S. - although foreign publications included this information in the headlines and lead sentences of their stories. Nor did it advise readers that domestic wiretaps played a key role in nabbing the suspected terrorists.

One obvious question media critics are now raising: Did the American media intentionally ignore an important story because it didn't fit into their agenda of attacking President George Bush for using wiretapping to spy on potential terrorists in the U.S.?

"It's clear to me," says AIM's Kincaid, "that they're trying their best to make this NSA program to be an impeachable offense, saying it is directed at ordinary Americans. That's why they keep referring to this as a 'program of spying on Americans' - whereas the president keeps pointing out it's a program designed to uncover al-Qaida operations on American soil."

Could it be that the left wing american media is so determined to 'get' president Bush that they will understate and edit stories which could be seen as aiding him in the fight against islamic terrorism? Has the left finally gotten so low as to attempt to shield the American public from the need for domestic 'spying' in protecting the American public from such plots?

Now this is all I could get since I'm not paying for archive access.....

Quote:

Italy charges 3 Algerians

Police in southern Italy arrested three Algerians yesterday on international terrorism charges and accused them of planning attacks in Iraq and Italy, police and the Interior Ministry said. The three were arrested in a nationwide sweep against an extremist group in Algeria, for whom they allegedly provided logistical support, police said. Officials suspect that they are members of the Salafist Group for Call and Combat, or GSPC, an Algerian group that allegedly provides fake documents to

Amazing, no mention of the US as a target in the US publications?

Is this incompetence, or biased media at its worst? I'll leave it for you to decide.

samcol · 01-15-2006, 02:00 PM

Am I still with the terrorists if I think he should of just went ahead and got the retroactive warrants? I still haven't seen the evidence that the shows listening to bin laden couldn't be accomplished by getting the rubber stamped retroactive warrants. Is it too much to ask to at least have a record that a wire tap happened?

Calling the president out on illegal activies now called an "agenda" instead of patriotism.

Ustwo · 01-15-2006, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

Am I still with the terrorists if I think he should of just went ahead and got the retroactive warrants? I still haven't seen the evidence that the shows listening to bin laden couldn't be accomplished by getting the rubber stamped retroactive warrants. Is it too much to ask to at least have a record that a wire tap happened?

Calling the president out on illegal activies now called an "agenda" instead of patriotism.

samcol thats great and all but do you think the US media should ignore stories directly involving the US in order to promote an agenda?

filtherton · 01-15-2006, 03:02 PM

What, are you alleging this some sort of vast left wing conspiracy? What do these algerians have to do with the president's illegal wiretaps? Is there any tinfoil left in the illinois area?

samcol · 01-15-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

samcol thats great and all but do you think the US media should ignore stories directly involving the US in order to promote an agenda?

Obviously the mainstream media isn't what it used to be and it should be exposing alleged terrorist plots against the United States. However, for them to focus on this with a microscope in attempt to vindicate Bush's wire tapping would be just as stupid. This really just blurrs the issue. The issue is legal wire tapping via retroactive warrants (and I use that term 'legal' loosely but that's a whole different debate) vs. illegal wire tapping.

Why can't you or the administration answer the simple question of 'why did they subvert to law to wire tap when they could of just done the same thing legally?'

The answer is simple: they can't, because there is no excuse for it, period.

Even if people think Bush is god, he is setting the precedent for this to be abused in the future.

Ustwo · 01-15-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

What, are you alleging this some sort of vast left wing conspiracy? What do these algerians have to do with the president's illegal wiretaps? Is there any tinfoil left in the illinois area?

The left on this board apparently can dish it out but not take it. Why do you think this story was ignored in the US media filty?

Elphaba · 01-15-2006, 04:34 PM

Ustwo, your link to the first article isn't working. Also, are there links to your additional article posts?

Addition: No working link for News24 (but "Hottie of the Week" was an interesting "news item"); no dates given; and an opinion piece without a link.

These highly dubious sources are proof that the "left can dish it out, but not take it?" It has been a constant complaint by the "left" (whomever they may be) that the US msm is weeks to months behind the reporting of the international press.

I fail to see the point you are trying to make, unless it is another troll like provocation. Sigh.

Marvelous Marv · 01-15-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

From South Africa

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/N...855238,00.html

Wow, I didn't hear about that...but wait.

Could it be that the left wing american media is so determined to 'get' president Bush that they will understate and edit stories which could be seen as aiding him in the fight against islamic terrorism? Has the left finally gotten so low as to attempt to shield the American public from the need for domestic 'spying' in protecting the American public from such plots?

Well, their old tactic of saying they "support the troops" while trying to undermine everything the troops are doing had gotten transparent. And the link is working fine.

By the way, isn't a "retroactive warrant" kind of like putting on a condom after your girlfriend goes home from a visit? Neither serves a purpose when an urgent action has already been performed.

samcol · 01-15-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

By the way, isn't a "retroactive warrant" kind of like putting on a condom after your girlfriend goes home from a visit? Neither serves a purpose when an urgent action has already been performed.

No, not really. It puts it on record so that the executive branch can't do wiretaps to anyone they want to for any reason. If they don't issue a warrant no one knows who they are listening to, unless a whistleblower comes forward and exposes the illegal activity. Don't you understand that the democrats will be able to do this too when they get back into power? They will be able to wiretap anyone they want to since Bush set the precedent that you no longer need warrants.

filtherton · 01-15-2006, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

The left on this board apparently can dish it out but not take it. Why do you think this story was ignored in the US media filty?

Well, perhaps they didn't think it was really that significant. Maybe a white girl went missing somewhere. I don't know. You are aware that the US media aren't all lefties. Where's your boy drudge on this? Where's o'reilly? The idea that the entire american media is conspiring to suppress this story because it will undermine their efforts to oppress the president is pretty rich. What's next? Presidential complicity in a terrorist act? Good for a chuckle at least.

Why hasn't the president pointed to this story as justification for his illegal wiretaps? I suspect the answer to that last question is because the three algerians have absolutely nothing to do with bush's illegal wiretapping.

martinguerre · 01-15-2006, 08:33 PM

Indeed...where is Fox News?

The other issue is if the story stands up. Several times already, the headlines haven't been justified by the followup. The proverbial beef is missing...and there's far less substance than intially appeared. Just ask Ayman "I'm not quite dead yet" al-Zawahiri who died briefly yesterday, only to be re-promoted to unfortanly alive.

roachboy · 01-15-2006, 08:34 PM

this is funny stuff: the article cites reed irvine's "accuracy in media" outfit--the politics and results of which are obvious--check them out:

http://www.aim.org/

and proceeds to build a "case" for some kind of "left media conspiracy"---which ustwo then repeats on his own, as if repeating a dubious (at best) claim makes everything somehow better. so much for the interpretation.

the article itself is truncated to the point of incoherence (perhaps you have to do this kind of thing if you want information to fit inside a far right interpretation...who knows, really)....so you can't tell if things are as they appear to be from this account or if something else is happening in the situation--for example, anyone can claim to be getting ready to launch an attack on the us, yes?---i am not sure that this problem of superficial reporting would be so central if it was not attached to such a whackjob "explanation" for the non-importance of the story in the american press, such as it is.

so this looks like gertrude stein thought oakland did: there's no there there.

rofgilead · 01-15-2006, 08:55 PM

This story seems to be that Italian intelligence could the suspects? I don't see how that pertains to the seemingly illegal wiretapping and spying by the NSA of late - they didn't catch the italian terrorists or having anything to do with the capture.

I still believe that it is bad to start trading our privacy and freedom for the argument of security, because there is no guarantee that we will get security - but there is a guarantee that we have lost those freedoms and privacy.

As far as it goes for whether the media is intentionally ignoring a story? Perhaps - but they seem to release/publish stories based on splash value - an actual attack has more splash than a foiled plot, and actual breaches of law by the president and NSA have a large splash value too (especially right when the Patriot act is being voted on again...)

But, maybe you are right that the story isn't being as reported as it should be. So are many important stories... but average people just aren't interested in them I guess?

host · 01-16-2006, 01:21 AM

Happy New Year, Everyone!

I made a new year's resolution to sit "idly by", reading these threads,but not posting. Move along, folks, because it turns out there is nothing to see here,
except an expose on a bit of amateurish, winger propaganda.

Ustwo, I read your new "sig", and I have to conclude that your authorship of this thread belies your admitted "agenda" here.

The poorly researched, inaccurate, and misleading premise and evidence posted in the thread starter, prompted me to break my resolution. There is is no accurate rationale for this thread to exist:

(1)"powerline" (and Ustwo) don't tell you that the allegedly "ignored" story, is nearly identical, down to the arrest of one of the same three Algerians, as a Nov. 17, 2005 "story" that was well reported in the U.S. press.
It is obvious that editors, if they caught the subtle difference, at all, would decide that the American public did not have the span of attention neccessary to sort out that one of the same three Algerians, and two new names, were again arrested in Italy in a similar, but different "sketchy" terrorist investigation....so they didn't cover it again on Dec. 23......

The Origin of the Argument Was Highlighted by the Propaganda Site:

Quote:

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/012808.php
January 11, 2006
Meanwhile, There's A War On

We noted here the mysteriously under-covered story of the three would-be terrorists who were arrested in Italy after vowing to launch an attack on America that would dwarf September 11. A reader sent us a link to this article, which has more:

The mainstream U.S. media outlets have failed to report a major terrorist plot against the U.S. - because it would tend to support President Bush's use of NSA domestic surveillance, according to media watchdog groups.

News of a planned attack masterminded by three Algerians operating out of Italy was widely reported outside the U.S., but went virtually unreported in the American media.

Italian authorities recently announced that they had used wiretaps to uncover the conspiracy to conduct a series of major attacks inside the U.S. Italian Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu said the planned attacks would have targeted stadiums, ships and railway stations, and the terrorists' goal, he said, was to exceed the devastation caused by 9/11.

Italian authorities stepped up their internal surveillance programs after July's terrorist bombings in London. Their domestic wiretaps picked up phone conversations by Algerian Yamine Bouhrama that discussed terrorist attacks in Italy and abroad.

Italian authorities arrested Bouhrama on November 15 and he remains in prison. Authorities later arrested two other men, Achour Rabah and Tartaq Sami, who are believed to be Bouhrama's chief aides in planning the attacks. The arrests were a major coup for Italian anti-terror forces, and the story was carried in most major newspapers from Europe to China.

"U.S. terror attacks foiled," read the headline in England's Sunday Times. In France, a headline from Agence France Presse proclaimed, "Three Algerians arrested in Italy over plot targeting U.S."

Curiously, what was deemed worthy of a worldwide media blitz abroad was virtually ignored by the U.S. media, and conservative media watchdog groups are saying that is no accident.

"My impression is that the major media want to use the NSA story to try and impeach the president," says Cliff Kincaid, editor of the Accuracy in Media Report published by the grassroots Accuracy in Media organization.

"If you remind people that terrorists actually are planning to kill us, that tends to support the case made by President Bush. They will ignore any issue that shows that this kind of [wiretapping] tactic can work in the war on terror."

The Associated Press version of the story did not disclose that the men planned to target the U.S. Nor did it report that the evidence against the suspects was gathered via a wiretapping surveillance operation.

Furthermore, only one American newspaper, the Philadelphia Inquirer, is known to have published the story that the AP distributed. It ran on page A-6 under the headline "Italy Charges 3 Algerians." The Inquirer report also made no mention of the plot to target the U.S. - although foreign publications included this information in the headlines and lead sentences of their stories. Nor did it advise readers that domestic wiretaps played a key role in nabbing the suspected terrorists.

One obvious question media critics are now raising: Did the American media intentionally ignore an important story because it didn't fit into their agenda of attacking President George Bush for using wiretapping to spy on potential terrorists in the U.S.?.......

(2) Some falsehoods that formed the basis for the "powerline hit piece", excerpted above, are highlighted in bold type.

The "story" in the thread starter, is dated Dec. 23, 2005, from a South African source. "powerline" ignores another possibility.....the "story" that they accuse the U.S. press of ignoring or suppressing, is too similar to the Nov. 17, 2005 "story", that was well reported, and included the name of one of the same three Algerians as the Dec. 23, story reports.

(3)The truth, backed by the following links and excerpts, demonstrates that the nearly identical "story" was reasonably well covered in the American press and news wire services, when it was first reported, on November 17, 2005....and, to a lesser extent, again....on Dec. 23, 2005:

Quote:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...d/3545741.html
Dec. 23, 2005, 8:27PM
Italian Police Arrest Three Algerians

© 2005 The Associated Press

ROME — Police in southern Italy arrested three Algerians Friday on international terrorism charges and accused them of planning attacks in Iraq and Italy, police and the Interior Ministry said.....

Italian Police Arrest Three Algerians
ROME -- Police in southern Italy arrested three Algerians Friday on international
terrorism charges and accused ... Italian Police Arrest Three Algerians ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122301575.html

Quote:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10080870/
Updated: 10:13 a.m. ET Nov. 17, 2005

Italy arrests Algerians suspected of terror links
Police believe three men were planning attack outside Italy.....

....Italy on raised alert
The news agencies ANSA and Apcom identified the three as Yamine Bouhrama, Khaled Serai and Mohamed Larbi. ANSA said Bouhrama and Serai had lived in Norway with false documents obtained in France.....

.......Italian authorities have arrested many suspects on the international terrorism charge since it was introduced.

Most suspects have been acquitted, or convicted on lesser charges such as assisting illegal immigration and dealing in false documents.

Quote:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...8DU8I500.shtml
Italy Arrests 3 Algerian Terror Suspects....

ROME, Nov. 17, 2005
(AP) Authorities have arrested three Algerians believed to have links to an Algerian militant group that has allied itself with Osama bin Laden, police said Thursday.

Quote:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1321905
Italy arrests 3 Algerian terror suspects: sources
ReutersReuters

Nov 17, 2005 — By Laura Viggiano

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...1702044_2.html
NAPLES -- Italian police arrested three Algerians suspected of being Islamic extremists with links to international terrorism. Police said the three men, identified as Yamine Bouhrama, Khaled Serai and Mohamed Larbi, were believed to be "potentially operative" and ready to carry out a strike.

Quote:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/eur...pects_sources/
Italy arrests 3 Algerian terror suspects: sources

By Laura Viggiano | November 17, 2005

NAPLES, Italy (Reuters) - Italian police have arrested three Algerians suspected of being Islamic extremists with links to international terrorism, but a government source said on Thursday no attack was planned in Italy.

Quote:

CNN, on Nov., 17, 2005:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/11/17...day/index.html
Italy detains 3 Algerians on terrorism charges

ROME (CNN) -- Italy's military police have detained three Algerian nationals believed to be connected to a militant group with ties to al Qaeda, authorities said.

The three suspects -- Yamine Bouhrama, Kalhed Serai and Mohamed Larbi -- are in their early 30s, police said. Bouhrama is being detained in Naples, while Serai and Larbi are detained in Brescia. Italian media reported the three were "potential operatives ready to carry out (suicide) attacks." When asked by CNN to confirm the reports, authorities would not. The Italian daily La Republica said the planned attack was outside Italy.

The men are being held on suspicion of association with the aim of international terrorism -- charges put in place after the terrorist attacks on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001. The commander told CNN that a judge is expected to confirm...

CNN on Dec. 23, 2005:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/eu....arrests.reut/
Italy arrests suspected extremists

Friday, December 23, 2005 Posted: 1219 GMT (2019 HKT)
ROME, Italy (Reuters) -- Italian police arrested three Algerians on Friday who are suspected of being members of an extremist group with links to al Qaeda, a police spokesman said.

The men are being held in the southern port city of Naples on suspicion of breaching international terrorism laws and carrying false documents, the spokesman said.

He added that magistrates believed they were part of a cell set up by the Algerian Salafist movement, which has links with Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda group.

Friday's arrests followed the detention last month of three other Algerians suspected of contact with the Salafist movement.

Quote:

http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive...D8DU68OG0.html
Italy Arrests Three Terror Suspects
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By AIDAN LEWIS Associated Press Writer

November 17,2005 | ROME --

Authorities have arrested three Algerians believed to have links to an Algerian militant group that has allied itself with Osama bin Laden, police said Thursday.

....and....here's a third, Dec, 2005 article, reporting on an entirely different set of three Algerians. All three groups are linked to the "Salafist Group". I submit that these reports end up being treated as "noise", not news.

Quote:

http://www.wpmi.com/news/world/story...6-D8B7536EF6EC
Spanish judge charges three Algerians with collaborating with Islamic extremists
Last Update: 12/13/2005 8:50:22 PM

MADRID, Spain (AP) - A Spanish judge filed charges against three men suspected of financing and providing logistical support for an Algerian Islamic extremist group with suspected links to al-Qaida, court officials said Tuesday.

The three Algerians, among seven people arrested last week in Spain's Costa del Sol region, were charged with collaborating with an armed group and ordered them jailed, the court said.

An Algerian woman was released without charge. The three other suspects - an ethnic Albanian from Kosovo, an Algerian man and a Spanish woman - are still being questioned, officials said.

Authorities believe the suspects aided an Algerian-based Islamic extremist organization, the Salafist Group for Call and Combat, which has declared allegiance to al-Qaida. The insurgent group has battled Algeria's government since 1992, when the military canceled legislative elections that religious parties appeared set to win....

ratbastid · 01-16-2006, 07:17 AM

PM me your mailing address, and I'll FedEx you one of my tin foil hats. You clearly need one; the Left Wing Media Conspiracy is obviously out to get you and your boy George.

You know, what's sad about this is, your premise relies on the American people being bone stupid. If you actually read the article you posted, you'll see that Bush's illegal taps didn't contribute to the capture of these people. It was all on Italian authority.

You wish that there could be more Cheney-style fearmongering in the press because you (and most other neocon patsies) believe that would tend to support Bushco's position that there are big baddies out there trying to get us, and Any Means are Necessary.

Thing is, America has seen through the crap about that line of argument. Our fear receptors are burned out. Even the administration has realized this--notice that the Terror Alert Level Rainbow hasn't shifted in months. They've quit playing that "bump the level every time something negative happens" game.

filtherton · 01-16-2006, 11:49 AM

Nice to see you, host.

NCB · 01-16-2006, 12:21 PM

Here's another gem from the NYT. Its about the drone attack over the weekend. Naturally, the media and its fellow liberals swallowed the story and picture whole, not once questioning the authenticty. Can someone please tell me whats wrong with the pic?

filtherton · 01-16-2006, 12:37 PM

Does the Zionist Occupational Government have anything to do with it?

NCB · 01-16-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Does the Zionist Occupational Government have anything to do with it?

Only in the minds of the disillusioned

Rekna · 01-16-2006, 03:27 PM

I know whats wrong with that pic, you posted it without any context. I don't know when this was taken, where it was taken, or why it was taken.

NCB · 01-16-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

I know whats wrong with that pic, you posted it without any context. I don't know when this was taken, where it was taken, or why it was taken.

The photo was taken by the NYT and was captioned as the place where the drone hit. Now, feel free to tell the folks what is wrong with the pic

Rekna · 01-16-2006, 04:56 PM

maybe i'm blind but i don't see anything wrong with it. now stop playing this silly game and make your statement.

martinguerre · 01-16-2006, 05:33 PM

the unexploded munition in the pic doesn't look like the kind fired from a drone. should be a hellfire...but that looks too big...more like an MK81.

Rekna · 01-16-2006, 05:51 PM

being that I have no idea what munitions those drones can and do fire I can't really comment on the authenticity. Do we know for a fact what type of munition was fired from the drone? and if so can someone post a picture of that kind of munition? I'm not going to take either story at face value. We however do know that once again some innocent people were killed in one of our bombings. Is this from the pakistan bombing where we fired into a soverign country? If someone missles into one of our border towns we would take it as an act of war.

Seaver · 01-16-2006, 05:53 PM

That's a 105mm artillery shell. And for some reason the kid in the back is wearing a Turkish hat. The ones around are wearing the traditional Afghani hat, yet it is also worn by Kurds in Iran/Iraq/Turkey.

So if I were a betting man it wasn't from Pakistan, but either Northern Iraq or Afghanistan.

That is a pic of a Predator Drone carring the Hellfire missile. Up close picture is..

Thus... it could not be from the Predator. And I would be willing to bet it wasn't even in Pakistan. Anyone for strike three?

roachboy · 01-16-2006, 06:01 PM

um..so are you conservative lads questioning the photo or the attack that the americans are still discovering the problems with that happened over the weekend? not knowing the rightwing talking points of the moment, i find it hard to figure out the significance of this conversation...it seems that coyness abounds, and this for no discernable reason.

Rekna · 01-16-2006, 06:13 PM

I'm curious, i haven't seen the picture posted in any media outlet yet. There is a claim that it was in the NYT, but there is no link to the article nor text to what they posted with the picture. The claim was that the left wing media ate this up but yet CBS hasn't shown that picture and neither has BBC (nor foxnews but that isn't a liberal paper). Please show me where the leftwing bias has reared it's head with this picture. Post the original article in full text with a link and show me other mainstream media outlets reporting the same thing.

Now back to the hellfire part, do those drones only carry one type of missle or can they be equipped with others?

Elphaba · 01-16-2006, 06:23 PM

Roachboy, would that be unusual based upon another obvious troll in the OP?

alpha phi · 01-16-2006, 07:12 PM

They want to beleive we have a vast leftwing conspircy in the media
nobody will post links because the truth will come out.
but I will
http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/...687416,00.html

Quote:

A remote-controlled Predator aircraft is believed to have fired missiles at houses in the village of Damadola in the Bajaur district. American intelligence had suggested that Zawahiri had been invited to a dinner there, although it is now doubted that he was present.

Quote:

David Almacy, a White House spokesman, would not even confirm that the attack had been carried out by the US. He said only that "President Musharraf and Pakistan is a valued ally and partner in the war on terror".

However, a Republican senator, John McCain, defended the action yesterday. "We have to go where these people are, and we have to take them out," he said in an interview on CBS television. While expressing sympathy with the anger in Pakistan, he added: "I can't tell you that we wouldn't do the same thing again."

The point of this ridiculous argument of inuendo?.......
John McCain confirmed and defended the action...
Many news agencies use stock fotos for stories

link
EDIT: and another

Quote:

Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.) also defended the action. "It's a regrettable situation, but what else are we supposed to do?" he said on CNN's "Late Edition." "It's like the wild, wild West out there. The Pakistani border is a real problem."

Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) said the strike was "clearly justified by the intelligence."

Friday's rocket attack in the village of Damadola, just over the border from Afghanistan, was carried out by the CIA with an unmanned Predator drone firing missiles at houses where Zawahiri was thought to have been, according to U.S. military and intelligence sources. The CIA has declined to comment.

Two more senators on board

NCB · 01-16-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

being that I have no idea what munitions those drones can and do fire I can't really comment on the authenticity. Do we know for a fact what type of munition was fired from the drone? and if so can someone post a picture of that kind of munition? I'm not going to take either story at face value. We however do know that once again some innocent people were killed in one of our bombings. Is this from the pakistan bombing where we fired into a soverign country? If someone missles into one of our border towns we would take it as an act of war.

Seaver pretty much nailed it. The picture shows an artillery shell. Drones do not carry art shells, but rather Hellfire missles. Thus, the dumbass reporter and photographer swallowed as whole what these Pakastanis in the pic claimed: that is was from the drone bombing this past weekend. Not once did the NYT question it, which in and of itself is telling on the standards they are willing to accept if it hurts this admins policies.

That said, this is just another classic CIA fuckup. The villagers claimed that they had seen the drone flying around for a couple of days beforehand. Thus, any experienced guerilla leader like al Zawahiri isnt going to dinner with some friends, but rather, he'll hunker down in a cave and wait it out.

silent_jay · 01-16-2006, 07:30 PM

Anybody look at the properties of the pic posted? Seems it's from Aghanistan, or at least that's what I draw from the word Afghan being in the pic title.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ker/afghan.jpg

Also, where is this NYT article NCB keeps going on about? How about a link to the actual story rather than pics from Afghanistan and you giving a commentary on how bad and biased the story is.

alpha phi · 01-16-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

Anybody look at the properties of the pic posted? Seems it's from Aghanistan, or at least that's what I draw from the word Afghan being in the pic title.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ker/afghan.jpg

Also, where is this NYT article NCB keeps going on about? How about a link to the actual story rather than pics from Afghanistan and you giving a commentary on how bad and biased the story is.

It's from the photobucket site (US)
the user is ncbiker
posted by NCB
Thats N C Biker

I've yet to see the NYT article
lots of others though
Google news

NCB · 01-16-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent_jay

Also, where is this NYT article NCB keeps going on about? How about a link to the actual story rather than pics from Afghanistan and you giving a commentary on how bad and biased the story is.

Thanks for reminding me. As you'll notice, they have made their correction.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...han.ready.html

Quote:

Correction: A picture caption on Saturday with an article about a U.S. airstrike on a village in Pakistan misidentified an unexploded ordinance. It was not the remains of a missile fired at a house.

alpha phi · 01-16-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCB

Thanks for reminding me. As you'll notice, they have made their correction.

Yea...........THEY ARE EVERYWHERE

kangaeru · 01-16-2006, 07:50 PM

THOSE WHO WOULD SACRIFICE ESSENTIAL LIBERTIES FOR A LITTLE SECURITY DESERVE NEITHER LIBERTY NOR SECURITY

We can find ways to fight terrorism without undermining the fundamental guaranteed rights which make us Americans. If we sacrifice those to fight the terrorists, then their agenda has succeeded, and we have lost.

The only thing to fear, is fear itself. The media and government use anonymous fear of brutal murder to scare people into relinquishing their freedoms. What are Americans a bunch of hyper sensitive pussies?

We're in this shit show because everything in the world has a balance, and we have fucked over many people, so we're seeing that come back to us. Equal and opposite reactions.

It's the way of the universe.

shakran · 01-16-2006, 08:14 PM

You're right. The US media did not pick up on this story. But then, neither, apparently, did the BBC. In fact, for such a "widely reported" story outside the US, I could only find it on one place - the above-mentioned news24 link. Now admittedly that was only 5 minutes of searching on google - I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I may have missed something.

Ustwo, would you be willing to link me to a (reputable) international source such as the BBC that carried this story? I found the original story (from Nov. 17, 2005) on many news sites, but not this new story. Now, assuming that I am correct and News24 is the ONLY place to "widely report" this, it would kinda blow your argument, once again, out of the water, would it not?

BTW I couldn't even find it on fox news, which, since they're so "fair and balanced," they should have no problem reporting this, should they?

docbungle · 01-17-2006, 12:28 AM

Lol. Left-wing bias, indeed.

There is no omnipresent, single media mindset that is all knowing and all encompassing. This whole left wing media bias bs is just that: BS.

Bias is everywhere and all of you know it. Yet you act like you don't. It's ridiculous. You listen to what you want to listen to and make fun of the other side for doing the exact same thing.

It never ends.

ratbastid · 01-17-2006, 08:10 AM

Just to underscore the point I made (that the actual STORY doesn't say anything about Bushco's illegal taps being the source of the arrest), here's a new story from the NYT today about the REAL level of success the program to spy on Americans:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/17/politics/17spy.html

It's long. Here's the first few paragraphs for the click-phobic:

Quote:

Spy Agency Data After Sept. 11 Led F.B.I. to Dead Ends
By LOWELL BERGMAN, ERIC LICHTBLAU, SCOTT SHANE and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
Published: January 17, 2006

WASHINGTON, Jan. 16 - In the anxious months after the Sept. 11 attacks, the National Security Agency began sending a steady stream of telephone numbers, e-mail addresses and names to the F.B.I. in search of terrorists. The stream soon became a flood, requiring hundreds of agents to check out thousands of tips a month.

But virtually all of them, current and former officials say, led to dead ends or innocent Americans.

F.B.I. officials repeatedly complained to the spy agency that the unfiltered information was swamping investigators. The spy agency was collecting much of the data by eavesdropping on some Americans' international communications and conducting computer searches of phone and Internet traffic. Some F.B.I. officials and prosecutors also thought the checks, which sometimes involved interviews by agents, were pointless intrusions on Americans' privacy.

Coppertop · 01-17-2006, 08:13 AM

The US media didn't report events that happened in another country? Yeah, must be a conspiracy.

shakran · 01-22-2006, 10:15 PM

Say Ustwo? I'm still waiting on that source. . . .or are you conceding that the story isn't accurate?

01-15-2006, 04:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	Ustwo, your link to the first article isn't working. Also, are there links to your additional article posts? Addition: No working link for News24 (but "Hottie of the Week" was an interesting "news item"); no dates given; and an opinion piece without a link. These highly dubious sources are proof that the "left can dish it out, but not take it?" It has been a constant complaint by the "left" (whomever they may be) that the US msm is weeks to months behind the reporting of the international press. I fail to see the point you are trying to make, unless it is another troll like provocation. Sigh. Last edited by Elphaba; 01-15-2006 at 05:19 PM..

01-15-2006, 08:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	Indeed...where is Fox News? The other issue is if the story stands up. Several times already, the headlines haven't been justified by the followup. The proverbial beef is missing...and there's far less substance than intially appeared. Just ask Ayman "I'm not quite dead yet" al-Zawahiri who died briefly yesterday, only to be re-promoted to unfortanly alive. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

01-15-2006, 08:34 PM	#12 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	this is funny stuff: the article cites reed irvine's "accuracy in media" outfit--the politics and results of which are obvious--check them out: http://www.aim.org/ and proceeds to build a "case" for some kind of "left media conspiracy"---which ustwo then repeats on his own, as if repeating a dubious (at best) claim makes everything somehow better. so much for the interpretation. the article itself is truncated to the point of incoherence (perhaps you have to do this kind of thing if you want information to fit inside a far right interpretation...who knows, really)....so you can't tell if things are as they appear to be from this account or if something else is happening in the situation--for example, anyone can claim to be getting ready to launch an attack on the us, yes?---i am not sure that this problem of superficial reporting would be so central if it was not attached to such a whackjob "explanation" for the non-importance of the story in the american press, such as it is. so this looks like gertrude stein thought oakland did: there's no there there. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

01-16-2006, 05:33 PM	#23 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	the unexploded munition in the pic doesn't look like the kind fired from a drone. should be a hellfire...but that looks too big...more like an MK81. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

01-16-2006, 05:53 PM	#25 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	That's a 105mm artillery shell. And for some reason the kid in the back is wearing a Turkish hat. The ones around are wearing the traditional Afghani hat, yet it is also worn by Kurds in Iran/Iraq/Turkey. So if I were a betting man it wasn't from Pakistan, but either Northern Iraq or Afghanistan. That is a pic of a Predator Drone carring the Hellfire missile. Up close picture is.. Thus... it could not be from the Predator. And I would be willing to bet it wasn't even in Pakistan. Anyone for strike three? Last edited by Seaver; 01-16-2006 at 05:57 PM..

01-15-2006, 02:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
samcol Junkie Location: Indiana	Am I still with the terrorists if I think he should of just went ahead and got the retroactive warrants? I still haven't seen the evidence that the shows listening to bin laden couldn't be accomplished by getting the rubber stamped retroactive warrants. Is it too much to ask to at least have a record that a wire tap happened? Calling the president out on illegal activies now called an "agenda" instead of patriotism.

01-15-2006, 03:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	What, are you alleging this some sort of vast left wing conspiracy? What do these algerians have to do with the president's illegal wiretaps? Is there any tinfoil left in the illinois area?

01-15-2006, 08:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
rofgilead Crazy Location: Nowhere	This story seems to be that Italian intelligence could the suspects? I don't see how that pertains to the seemingly illegal wiretapping and spying by the NSA of late - they didn't catch the italian terrorists or having anything to do with the capture. I still believe that it is bad to start trading our privacy and freedom for the argument of security, because there is no guarantee that we will get security - but there is a guarantee that we have lost those freedoms and privacy. As far as it goes for whether the media is intentionally ignoring a story? Perhaps - but they seem to release/publish stories based on splash value - an actual attack has more splash than a foiled plot, and actual breaches of law by the president and NSA have a large splash value too (especially right when the Patriot act is being voted on again...) But, maybe you are right that the story isn't being as reported as it should be. So are many important stories... but average people just aren't interested in them I guess?

01-16-2006, 07:17 AM	#15 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	PM me your mailing address, and I'll FedEx you one of my tin foil hats. You clearly need one; the Left Wing Media Conspiracy is obviously out to get you and your boy George. You know, what's sad about this is, your premise relies on the American people being bone stupid. If you actually read the article you posted, you'll see that Bush's illegal taps didn't contribute to the capture of these people. It was all on Italian authority. You wish that there could be more Cheney-style fearmongering in the press because you (and most other neocon patsies) believe that would tend to support Bushco's position that there are big baddies out there trying to get us, and Any Means are Necessary. Thing is, America has seen through the crap about that line of argument. Our fear receptors are burned out. Even the administration has realized this--notice that the Terror Alert Level Rainbow hasn't shifted in months. They've quit playing that "bump the level every time something negative happens" game.

01-16-2006, 11:49 AM	#16 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Nice to see you, host.

01-16-2006, 12:37 PM	#18 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Does the Zionist Occupational Government have anything to do with it?

01-16-2006, 03:27 PM	#20 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I know whats wrong with that pic, you posted it without any context. I don't know when this was taken, where it was taken, or why it was taken.

01-16-2006, 04:56 PM	#22 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	maybe i'm blind but i don't see anything wrong with it. now stop playing this silly game and make your statement.

01-16-2006, 05:51 PM	#24 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	being that I have no idea what munitions those drones can and do fire I can't really comment on the authenticity. Do we know for a fact what type of munition was fired from the drone? and if so can someone post a picture of that kind of munition? I'm not going to take either story at face value. We however do know that once again some innocent people were killed in one of our bombings. Is this from the pakistan bombing where we fired into a soverign country? If someone missles into one of our border towns we would take it as an act of war.

01-16-2006, 06:01 PM	#26 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	um..so are you conservative lads questioning the photo or the attack that the americans are still discovering the problems with that happened over the weekend? not knowing the rightwing talking points of the moment, i find it hard to figure out the significance of this conversation...it seems that coyness abounds, and this for no discernable reason. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

01-16-2006, 06:13 PM	#27 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I'm curious, i haven't seen the picture posted in any media outlet yet. There is a claim that it was in the NYT, but there is no link to the article nor text to what they posted with the picture. The claim was that the left wing media ate this up but yet CBS hasn't shown that picture and neither has BBC (nor foxnews but that isn't a liberal paper). Please show me where the leftwing bias has reared it's head with this picture. Post the original article in full text with a link and show me other mainstream media outlets reporting the same thing. Now back to the hellfire part, do those drones only carry one type of missle or can they be equipped with others?

01-16-2006, 06:23 PM	#28 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	Roachboy, would that be unusual based upon another obvious troll in the OP?

01-16-2006, 07:30 PM	#31 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Anybody look at the properties of the pic posted? Seems it's from Aghanistan, or at least that's what I draw from the word Afghan being in the pic title. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ker/afghan.jpg Also, where is this NYT article NCB keeps going on about? How about a link to the actual story rather than pics from Afghanistan and you giving a commentary on how bad and biased the story is. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 01-16-2006 at 07:32 PM..

01-16-2006, 07:50 PM	#35 (permalink)
kangaeru Crazy Location: on the road to where I want to be...	THOSE WHO WOULD SACRIFICE ESSENTIAL LIBERTIES FOR A LITTLE SECURITY DESERVE NEITHER LIBERTY NOR SECURITY We can find ways to fight terrorism without undermining the fundamental guaranteed rights which make us Americans. If we sacrifice those to fight the terrorists, then their agenda has succeeded, and we have lost. The only thing to fear, is fear itself. The media and government use anonymous fear of brutal murder to scare people into relinquishing their freedoms. What are Americans a bunch of hyper sensitive pussies? We're in this shit show because everything in the world has a balance, and we have fucked over many people, so we're seeing that come back to us. Equal and opposite reactions. It's the way of the universe. __________________ Dont be afraid to change who you are for what you could become

01-16-2006, 08:14 PM	#36 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	You're right. The US media did not pick up on this story. But then, neither, apparently, did the BBC. In fact, for such a "widely reported" story outside the US, I could only find it on one place - the above-mentioned news24 link. Now admittedly that was only 5 minutes of searching on google - I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I may have missed something. Ustwo, would you be willing to link me to a (reputable) international source such as the BBC that carried this story? I found the original story (from Nov. 17, 2005) on many news sites, but not this new story. Now, assuming that I am correct and News24 is the ONLY place to "widely report" this, it would kinda blow your argument, once again, out of the water, would it not? BTW I couldn't even find it on fox news, which, since they're so "fair and balanced," they should have no problem reporting this, should they? Last edited by shakran; 01-16-2006 at 08:16 PM..

01-17-2006, 12:28 AM	#37 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	Lol. Left-wing bias, indeed. There is no omnipresent, single media mindset that is all knowing and all encompassing. This whole left wing media bias bs is just that: BS. Bias is everywhere and all of you know it. Yet you act like you don't. It's ridiculous. You listen to what you want to listen to and make fun of the other side for doing the exact same thing. It never ends. __________________ Bad Luck City Last edited by docbungle; 01-17-2006 at 12:35 AM..

01-17-2006, 08:13 AM	#39 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	The US media didn't report events that happened in another country? Yeah, must be a conspiracy.

01-22-2006, 10:15 PM	#40 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Say Ustwo? I'm still waiting on that source. . . .or are you conceding that the story isn't accurate?