Leto

the Nordiques are gone!!!





By the way, did anybody catch the Daily Show last night? Hilarious segment on the election. to quote: "The real shock of the Canadian laundering scandal is that somewhere a liberal party is in power."

Stewart also made the Canadian Correspondant say 'eh' and 'aboot'

the clip is online at: http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/t...es/index.jhtml

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Sticky

Whther you like or dislike Harper I am sure that a good portion of the people working for him are at least smart (you can assume that of any of the party leaders).

So their logic is probably the following:
- We can't hide from these issues, if we don't bring it up, the other parties will. Let's not be defensive about it, let's go on the offense.
- In either case we either tell the truth about what we think or lie.
- If we have decided that we are not going to lie, then the best option is for these issues to at least be under our control.
Hence: Bring it up first under circumstances of our choosing instead of reating to an accusation.

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Sticky The Stickman

Sticky

Here is the direct link. It is pretty funny.
I believe that it will show you a commercial first.

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Sticky The Stickman

Charlatan

Sticky... I understand that. I just forgot that that issue was even an issue anymore.

Oddly, I was starting to warm to the guy (I know! How odd.). This just reminded me why I don't like him.


This is issue is a damned if you do damned if you don't. If he didn't bring it up, he is hiding something. If he does bring it up, he's a social conservative.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Sticky

I am just glad that the situation is interesting.
Since the begining of the 90's the only thing exciting about Canadian (intra) politics was:
- Jean Chretien getting pied
- Aline Chretien scaring off an intruder that the RCMP and CSIS allowed to get into the Prime Minister's residence while Jean cried in the corner.

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Sticky The Stickman

Charlatan

You don't think it's funny that Jean Charest looks like a cross between Groucho and Harpo Marx?

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

highthief

Alrighty then. Liberals versus NDP it is, sirrah!

Charlatan, you are hereby appointed head zebra for this contest!

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

james t kirk

I think the Bloc is going to do surprisingly unwell.

Quebec is very fickle. I remember before the last provincial election, everyone was saying that Mario Dumont was going to be the next premier and voila, Charest takes it.

If the liberals were smart, they would concentrate on mending fences in Quebec.

I think that the voters of Quebec might be swayed back to the liberal fold at the expense of the bloc.

Sticky

The Bloc will win a few more seats here then last time.
Quebec will not vote Liberal aside from the ridings that are already Liberal.
It is just the way that it is.
It may happen the way you explain at some point in the future but it will definately not happen so close after all this stuff about the sponsorship scandal cam out and the Gomery report was released.

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Sticky The Stickman

Charlatan

It's funny, the polls are suggesting that the Bloc could lose seats in Quebec. My gut tells me that the Bloc will gain seats but it would be facinating to see them lose seats, especially in the face of mounting support for the new PQ leader.

It looks like Seperatism will be the big spectre of this election (as opposed to the Conservatives "hidden agenda"). Martin need only ask this question, "who would you rather see in power if there is another referendum, the Liberals or the Conservatives?"

I know, it's a tough question. But how would you answer it?

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Sticky

Looks like the Tories just upped the ante

GST Reduction to 5% over 5 years
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/A...ampaign_051201

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Sticky The Stickman

Charlatan

GST reduction while it might not be the right thing in terms of paying down the debt, sure looks sexy and will score them some points.

Nice to see Harper is getting his platform and issues out there rather than just depending on negative campaigning.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

highthief

It's a good ploy. Not sure the government can eliminate the GST, cut other personal and corporate taxes AND cut the national debt, but it will attract some voters and for the first time forces Martin into a more defensive posture.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Antikarma

You know it's funny. I hate Harper and the Conservatives, but he said stuff I wanted to hear on the whole issue of Quebec Seperatism.
Linky Linky

Call me naive, and that would be a valid arguement. But that IS what I want to hear. I don't want another referendum, I want to try to address the concerns of Quebecois and deal with issues like adults.

__________________

"Whoever you are, go out into the evening,
leaving your room, of which you know each bit;
your house is the last before the infinite,
whoever you are."

highthief

Unfortunately, it is up the Quebec government if they want another referendum, not Steven Harper.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

fresnelly

I haven't weighed in here yet because once the excitment of the non-confidence vote wore off, I quickly tired of the overwhelming media punditry wars. What a non-starter the debate over election timing has turned out to be. Eeesh.

Anyways, I think the campaign got interesting today when Stephen Harper made a promise to immediately reduce the GST (federal sales tax) by 1%, followed by another 1% within 5 years if elected. This was a brilliant move on the part of the Conservatives.

EVERYONE hates the GST, the Liberals previously broke their promise to abolish it, and perhaps most importantly, it's not a radical suggestion. It also pulled attention from Harper's depressing remarks about same sex marriage legislation.

If the Conservatives play the rest of their campaign this smart, focusing on reasonable promises with broad appeal, I believe the Liberals are going to lose a lot more seats than we might have thought.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

highthief

So the talk this week is of child care. On one hand, I like Harper's "here's 1200 dollars, spend it as you will (be it on daycare or staying at home)". But I prefer the concept of a national or provincial daycare system that the Liberals espouse (Quebec has daycare that costs about 7 bucks a day. I currently pay about 70 dollars a day in Toronto). No idea what Layton is promoting.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Charlatan

I think the idea of a national daycare that the Liberals are promoting is a good idea...

While I can see where Harper is coming from, the reality is that $1200 doesn't even begin to cover my childcare costs (currently at just about $700/month).


What I find interesting so far is that Harper seems to really be making an effort this election. He is actually running a campaign based on policy and more importantly the press is getting his message out there. Interesting that his numbers have continued to drop despite this...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

fresnelly

Yeah, I wonder if our cynical take on politicians has reached some sort of critical mass. I hear "These guys have the better promises, but they won't come through with them." a lot.

I like the idea of a national day care plan better than a meagre $100 a month, but the Liberal's reputation for managing these national programs is pretty weak to say the least.

Has anyone seen the Conservatives' new tv spot on Crime? It's shot in the style of a news anchor interview, complete with fake word on the street clips and painful close-ups of Stephen Harper at the desk. It's really cheap looking and I think a little embarrassing.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

highthief

$700 a month? Damn, I pay 1100 a month for 4 days a week. It's a great daycare, but damn...

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Charlatan

Wow! That is some steep daycare. What is the child to teacher ratio? It must be low.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Charlatan

They have a series of these spots. I saw one that was around political corruption and his plan to bring in the accountability act.

The spots are awful. They look incredibly amateurish (the lighting is bad, the set up is bad, the dialogue is wooden) and worst of all they spots play up the weakest part of the Conservative party... Harper himself.

He doesn't look trustworthy... I mean, I hate to lower our choice of political leader to something so shallow but there it is. He's kind of creepy looking and the bad lighting of these spots does nothing to alleviate that.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

highthief

As she is only 13 months old, it is 3-1. When she hits 18 months, it goes to 5-1 and the cost goes down, and when she is (I think 30 or 36 months) it drops again to 8-1 and again, costs drop.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Charlatan

13 months... that explains it. Yes, babies are way more expensive. My daughter is three years so, she is with them all day (rather than in school) and gets a lunch provided. Her fees will drop next year when she enters JK and drop again when she enters Grade one.

We managed to avoid having to pay for daycare when she was a baby. My wife stayed home and she also used her parents for the days she had to take meetings or go to class.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

cellophanedeity

I'm kind of excited about the election. It'll be my first time voting, and I've been trying to educate myself for a year or two now.

After doing a lot of research, I will be voting Green. I don't really excpect them to take power or anything (especially with the media shutting them out almost entirely) but I would like to make sure they get enough votes to get a seat or two.

I have no predictions really. I think the Liberals will continue with their minority government, and both the Conservatives and the NDP will get more seats than they have now. I'd love it if Green somehow managed to work their way into visibility though.

Ace_O_Spades

My riding is NDP, and I don't see any reason for it to change. Voted NDP last time, will be voting NDP this time.

Did anyone else see how the debate questions for the upcoming debate next friday will all be submitted by regular canadians? I sent in my question, but I seriously doubt it will get chosen.

This was my Q:

"As a student, I face the reality of increasing tuition fees every time I register for classes. The Canadian university tuition fees for 2003-04 have gone up 7.4 percent, the highest increase in four years, outpacing the rate of inflation. Do you have any plans for cooperation with Provincial governments to bring the rate of increase back down to reasonable levels?"

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Feh.

Martian

Welcome to the voting world.

Green is often viewed as a 'snub' vote, in that people will vote for the Green Party to avoid voting for any of the other candidates. They have been gaining legitimacy in recent years, but I wouldn't expect them to take any seats this time around; there's just not enough people who take them seriously yet. Watch for them in the pop vote, though.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Martian

This is what I like to refer to as a 'head in the sand policy'. The fact of the matter is that there may well be another referendum whether mr. Harper wants to address it or not. I'd rather see someone plan ahead for that than just say 'this isn't happening'.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Leto

My riding (Beaches/East York) is Liberal, but Churly is running as an NDP candidate, and it is an NDP riding provincially. So it should be an interesting race. As far as daycare goes, too little too late. My kids are all over 6 yrs old, and the real expenses are kicking in (university anyone?). Actually my wife retired to stay home and be with the kids when they were old enough to bring home schoolwork.

So I would be really really really interested in income splitting strategies. That and tuition costs are my biggest issues. Oh and head tax compensation. three things.

-- what about a ruthless devotion to the Pope??

-- Shut up!

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Charlatan

Leto... Marylin Churley has been my provincial representative for years. I've met her quite a few times and have always found her to be good person and a good representative. She is one of the people I am hoping wins (so I can get my NDP number up to for the betting thread 22).

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Antikarma

There may well be another referendum, yes. But the only discussion we hear is contingency for when it occurs, and NOT what we are trying to do to bridge the divide and AVOID a referendum. That's HARDLY head in the sand, thats optimism and wanting to work with fellow Canadians to be sure we all feel welcome in this country.

Look at Jack Layton's press conference this morning. It effectively degenerated into "will he honor the supreme court's ruling on seperation guidelines when a referendum occured". And this was his unity/accountability policy unveiling.I quote form his speech, his accountability policy

From NDP.ca When you’re a federal politician, doing what’s right in the province of Quebec includes making a basic commitment to respect. Respect for the unique culture and linguistic character of this province. Respect for its autonomy and jurisdiction. Respect for the values that the people of Quebec hold dear – and in common with Canadians across this country.

<snippity snip>

Then we need to build on priorities we all have in common - I think, beginning with a shared commitment to look after our seniors, ensure good education for our children, protect health care, and defend the environment.


Now granted, I went to www.conservative.ca and at a cursory glance could find NO unity policy, but from that onepress conference I heard from Steven Harper something I hadn't heard a politician say in awhile. Let's NOT focus on the referendum, let's focus on keeping the country together"

You can call it Head in the Sand all you like, but I prefer to consider it as focusing on solutions instead of problems. I'm not defending Harper in the least, everyone knows I'm as far from a Conservative booster as you can get. But we need more people working on keeping the country together and less preparing for how it will fall apart.

__________________

"Whoever you are, go out into the evening,
leaving your room, of which you know each bit;
your house is the last before the infinite,
whoever you are."

highthief

The Grits made a smart with their "handgun ban". People who own guns weren't voting Liberal anyway, due to the gun registry, so they won't lose significant voters with this move, but they will take votes away from the NDP and Bloc, both of whom would be for increased gun laws.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Leto

That's really bizarre. I thought that Kim Campbell kicked off the Gun Registry.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

highthief

Yeah, post Montreal massacre is what got gun control on the front burner again in the early 90s, but twas the Liberals who actually brought it in, i think, and certainly were the ones who spent a billion or two on the project.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Charlatan

Kim Campbell, as Justice Minister enacted some very tough gun control laws. When she was running for office (as the newly minted PM) the Liberals were looking for a way to make themselves look good in the face of her rather popular laws.

They just made like the new laws hadn't done anything and came up with the idea of a gun registry... something that on an emotional level makes sense but in reality is sadly a waste of money.

The real answer is tougher laws on those who use guns during ciminal acts combined with the laws Campbell already put in place (ie laws around the transportation, storage, purchase and licensing of users).

Given the pourous nature of our border there is little we can do to stop the importation of illegal weapons. We just need to make it harsher for those found using them incorrectly.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Leto

being an IT project manager, and a consultant with the Big 5 for over 10 yrs (now no longer thank god) I can assure you that the billion or two was probably eaten up in fees to one of those firms. Having seen the billling rates, (discounted from over $400/hr for mid level developers to about $200/hr ) for projects in the Ontario Gov't - MBS & finance or for the hydro, I can see how those costs can ratchet up. Especially if there is little control over requirements!!!

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Quadraton

I hope you Conservatives enjoy your beer and popcorn.

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"A witty saying proves nothing"
- Voltaire

Charlatan

The Beer and Popcorn comment was a stupid thing to say. The Conservatives now get to crow that the Liberals don't trust Canadians to spend their own money...

The reality is, the Liberals are saying they will start a national daycare system that will benefit everyone while the Conservatives are taking the approach of giving everyone $1200 and letting them sort it out.

As was noted above, $1200 doesn't pay for shit when it comes to childcare... spit in the bucket doesn't begin to desribe how little it is.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Leto

yup, like I said, too little, too late for my vote. Income splitting? Now that's where I get interested.

I think that there is some intrinsic value to having a parent stay at home, and that there should be a way for single income families to defray the cost through tax savings. Note that I am NOT asking for a handout from the government (e.g. $1200) for each child, just because I have kids. Just a tax break on the single wage earner, by spreading the cost around.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

splck

Didn't the Liberals have 12 odd years to impliment their daycare dream? Why is it now being promised yet again? I'm not sure why everyone's childcare should be paid for by the state and I would have rather had $1200 per child at the time. I'd take tax breaks for stay at home parents to encourage one income families over state run day care.

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nice line eh?