Double Standards.... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Rekna · 11-22-2005, 10:48 AM

Does anyone else notice a gross difference between men and women punishments in the US? I have 2 recent cases to illustrate my point. The first is the following:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176375,00.html

Quote:

No Jail Time for Florida Teacher in Sex Case
Tuesday, November 22, 2005

TAMPA, Fla. — A Florida teacher charged with having sex with a minor pleaded guilty on Tuesday to two counts of lewd and lascivious behavior as part of a plea deal that does not include any jail time.

The deal provides that Greco Middle School teacher Debra Lafave, 25, will not serve one day in jail in connection with multiple sex acts with a 14-year-old student unless she violates the terms of the plea agreement, which includes three years of house arrest and seven years' probation.

"I accept full responsibility for my actions," Lafave said during Tuesday's trial in Tampa.

"To place an attractive young woman in that kind of hell hole is like putting a piece of raw meat in with the lions," Lafave's attorney, John Fitzgibbons, said in July of the possibility of jail time. "I'm not sure she would survive."

On Friday state Circuit Judge Wayne Timmerman ordered attorneys not to talk publicly about the pending prosecution of Lafave amid worries of seating an untainted jury. The gag order was a major setback for the defense, which appears to have led to today's resolution.

"I don't see what the harm is in telling these guys from this point on, in order to get a fair and impartial jury you guys keep your mouths shut," the judge said last week.

Lafave had faced four felony counts of lewd and lascivious battery and one count of lewd and lascivious exhibition, each of which carry a maximum 15-year prison term.

The boy had told investigators he and the teacher had sex in a classroom, her house and once in a vehicle while his 15-year-old cousin drove. He said Lafave told him her marriage was in trouble and that she was aroused by the fact that having sex with him was not allowed.

Fitzgibbons last week had said Lafave would plead insanity at trial, claiming she was under such emotional stress that she didn't know right from wrong.

Now I can bet you that if this were a case where a simalar aged man had sex with a simalar aged woman (volentarily) it would be a rape case and he would be in prison for many many years. The world would think of him as scum and he would have to register as a sex offender if he ever got out. I bet googleing for such cases would reveal this.

Now for my second case:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175706,00.html

Quote:

Woman to Marry Man Who Shot Her
Wednesday, November 16, 2005

SAN BERNADINO, Calif. — A woman says she still plans to marry the man who shot her in the groin and then held her hostage in his family's garage for six days.

Tina Marie Stebbins revealed her intentions in a letter released Monday as her boyfriend, Christian Leroy Lindblad, 37, was sentenced to 20 years in prison for shooting her in June 2002.

"I love Christian today as deeply as I loved him before this awful thing happened to us," Stebbins wrote in a victim impact statement. "We are soul mates."

She added: "I want to tell you all that I have forgiven Christian. And I pray that Christian has forgiven me for failing him when he needed me most."

Lindblad and his parents tried to cover up the shooting by treating Stebbins with home remedies, according to a San Bernardino County Sheriff's report. They also threatened her young sons and her family, the report said.

Critically wounded, Stebbins was airlifted to a hospital after Lindblad mentioned the incident to a family friend who was a firefighter.

Lindblad pleaded guilty to a charge of attempted murder as his trial was about to begin in early October. He has said the shooting was an accident.

His father, Robert Leroy Lindblad, 72, pleaded guilty in 2003 to being an accessory and was sentenced to three years in prison. His mother, Shirley Royann Samantha Lindblad, 62, was sentenced to three years probation after pleading guilty to the same charge.

The parents pleaded guilty to the same crime, the father got 3 years in prison, the mother got 3 years probation. Now I'm not sure if the father had a pervious criminal record or not which could have been a factor. But here we have 2 people same exact crime two vastly differen't punishments.

Tell me does this make any sense?

Rekna · 11-22-2005, 10:49 AM

I'd like to add an additional question. Does anyone else notice that when a male has commited a crime we immediatly assume he is a lowlife scum but when a woman commits one we assume she is missguided and made a mistake?

Lebell · 11-22-2005, 11:10 AM

Welcome to the Hotel Reality.

flstf · 11-22-2005, 12:29 PM

I believe that there should be a double standard. I just don't think that teenage boys being taken advantage of by older women suffer that much harm. Everyone is not the same so I could be wrong and can only speak from experience. Men and boys seem to be wired differently than women and girls especially when it comes to sexual matters. A teenage boy having sex with an older woman is more likely to consider himself lucky rather than a victim.

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-22-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

I believe that there should be a double standard. I just don't think that teenage boys being taken advantage of by older women suffer that much harm. Everyone is not the same so I could be wrong and can only speak from experience. Men and boys seem to be wired differently than women and girls especially when it comes to sexual matters. A teenage boy having sex with an older woman is more likely to consider himself lucky rather than a victim.

I agree.

Plus I may be a sexist chauvonistic pig, but grown men molesting or assaulting girls or women in general is a big big nono in my book.

sapiens · 11-22-2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

Men and boys seem to be wired differently than women and girls especially when it comes to sexual matters. A teenage boy having sex with an older woman is more likely to consider himself lucky rather than a victim.

I agree. I also think that an older man is more likely to exploit a girl than a older woman is to exploit a boy.

pandafaye · 11-22-2005, 01:28 PM

Just because it is more likely that a female will consider a molestation by an older man as a crime rather than a "lucky occurence" does not mean we should punish it differently than if the sex roles were reversed and it was a young boy instead. The entire point of age of consent laws is that children that young CAN'T or aren't mature enough to decide. There's no reason to let a person off the hook just because they chose a male victim instead of a female. I think it's a mistake to brush off the fact that a male can be just as psychological and physically damaged by such an encounter as a female.

samcol · 11-22-2005, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

I believe that there should be a double standard. I just don't think that teenage boys being taken advantage of by older women suffer that much harm. Everyone is not the same so I could be wrong and can only speak from experience. Men and boys seem to be wired differently than women and girls especially when it comes to sexual matters. A teenage boy having sex with an older woman is more likely to consider himself lucky rather than a victim.

I'm going to have to jump on the agree bandwagon. I don't think she's in any danger of "raping" anyone else by getting a lenient penalty.

Himbo · 11-22-2005, 02:44 PM

Yah those boys don't suffer at all. They think it's cool. That is until Ms. Teacher knocks on the parents doors shows them the wonderful child that came into this world as a result of the rape.

Then guess what this lucky little boy gets to do. He gets the privilege of having to pay child support for the next 18 years of his life to his rapist so she can provide for this child.

YAY!!!!

kutulu · 11-22-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Himbo

Yah those boys don't suffer at all. They think it's cool. That is until Ms. Teacher knocks on the parents doors shows them the wonderful child that came into this world as a result of the statutory rape.

Then guess what this lucky little boy gets to do. He gets the privilege of having to pay child support for the next 18 years of his life to his statutory rapist so she can provide for this child.
YAY!!!!

Fixed that for you. He was willing and ready. He bragged about it even. He also chose to not use a condom. If she gets pregnant its just as much his fault as it was hers. What are we supposed to relieve him from his responsibilities just because he's young?

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

I believe that there should be a double standard. I just don't think that teenage boys being taken advantage of by older women suffer that much harm. Everyone is not the same so I could be wrong and can only speak from experience. Men and boys seem to be wired differently than women and girls especially when it comes to sexual matters. A teenage boy having sex with an older woman is more likely to consider himself lucky rather than a victim.

So then you would think the same if all circumstances were the same except the older person was a man that no jail time is needed?

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-22-2005, 03:40 PM

It seems that it is, maybe the word is "anatomically", impossible for a female to rape a male.

pandafaye · 11-22-2005, 03:41 PM

Just because a man has a hard on does not mean that he wants to have sex. How can you view rape as just being physical?

Willravel · 11-22-2005, 03:43 PM

I'm against the double standard. If women are more in control of sex in a relationship (as soooo many people say), then if anything they should be dealt with even more harshly than men. I say make it even. Female teacher lusting over little boys is just as sick as male teacher lusting over little girls.

kutulu · 11-22-2005, 03:53 PM

In this particular case I do think the proper punishment was given. The boy wasn't coerced into sex with her. He was more than willing to play a part. I'd also expect the similar in older men/younger women relationships that play out under similar circumstances. 15 yr old girls can lust over older men just as much as 15 yr old boys can lust over older women.

Maybe instead of reactionary sentencing we can look at things on a case by case basis and see if any harm was done to the 'victim'

AngelicVampire · 11-22-2005, 03:56 PM

Out of curiosity (as it has happened in reverse) can a woman sleep with a man she met in say a night club then have him claim rape as it was non-consensual (women have occasionally cried rape in "consensual" cases where both parties were way too drunk to have any idea of what was happening)?

Willravel · 11-22-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelicVampire

Out of curiosity (as it has happened in reverse) can a woman sleep with a man she met in say a night club then have him claim rape as it was non-consensual (women have occasionally cried rape in "consensual" cases where both parties were way too drunk to have any idea of what was happening)?

I don't think there is any precedent, to be honest. It'd take a lot of balls to claim rape against a woman, because of old stereotypes.

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-22-2005, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandafaye

Just because a man has a hard on does not mean that he wants to have sex. How can you view rape as just being physical?

Granted rape isn't about the physcial many times, rather the power over another... I guess I was thinking in a purely physical sense, guess it wouldn't take much for a young male to pop wood in a situation with an older woman groping them.

Elphaba · 11-22-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

Granted rape isn't about the physcial many times, rather the power over another... I guess I was thinking in a purely physical sense, guess it wouldn't take much for a young male to pop wood in a situation with an older woman groping them.

Exactly, Mojo. The power differential should be the deciding factor in weighing the crime, rather than the sex of the participants. If you consider a same sex power differential (i.e. a priest and a male child) then the "horror" returns.

But.... there is always a but. Bottom line, most of us still believe that a woman cannot rape a man or male child. The double standard begins there and simply is reflected in our legal system.

Rekna · 11-22-2005, 08:35 PM

everyone is addressing the first case how about the second? Also what if the role was reveresed exactly and the young girl was bragging about having sex with her older male teacher and said it was consentual?

Lebell · 11-22-2005, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

everyone is addressing the first case how about the second? Also what if the role was reveresed exactly and the young girl was bragging about having sex with her older male teacher and said it was consentual?

No, no, no, we all know that would be bad

Jinn · 11-22-2005, 09:13 PM

buut... did you see how hot the teacher was? http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...51lafave1.html

.. In all reality, I think that the double-standard sucks and I've similarly decided that it won't be going away any time soon.

Seaver · 11-24-2005, 10:55 AM

For those of you who believe in the double standard, you're going on the premise that the boys were more than willing, and the girls were coerced.

I dont know if you know much about girls, but they are just as sexual as men. In my highschool we had a teacher who slept with half a dozen boys, everyone knew but no one did anything.

Then we had a softball coach (male), who the women would litterally slip drugs into his drinks in order to have sex with him. People found out, he was fired and registered as a sex offender.

Oh those poor poor little girls were ravaged!

11-22-2005, 11:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Welcome to the Hotel Reality. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

11-22-2005, 03:40 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	It seems that it is, maybe the word is "anatomically", impossible for a female to rape a male. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

11-22-2005, 09:13 PM	#21 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	buut... did you see how hot the teacher was? http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...51lafave1.html .. In all reality, I think that the double-standard sucks and I've similarly decided that it won't be going away any time soon. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel Last edited by Jinn; 11-22-2005 at 09:17 PM..

11-22-2005, 10:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I'd like to add an additional question. Does anyone else notice that when a male has commited a crime we immediatly assume he is a lowlife scum but when a woman commits one we assume she is missguided and made a mistake?

11-22-2005, 12:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I believe that there should be a double standard. I just don't think that teenage boys being taken advantage of by older women suffer that much harm. Everyone is not the same so I could be wrong and can only speak from experience. Men and boys seem to be wired differently than women and girls especially when it comes to sexual matters. A teenage boy having sex with an older woman is more likely to consider himself lucky rather than a victim.

11-22-2005, 01:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
pandafaye Tilted Location: Maine	Just because it is more likely that a female will consider a molestation by an older man as a crime rather than a "lucky occurence" does not mean we should punish it differently than if the sex roles were reversed and it was a young boy instead. The entire point of age of consent laws is that children that young CAN'T or aren't mature enough to decide. There's no reason to let a person off the hook just because they chose a male victim instead of a female. I think it's a mistake to brush off the fact that a male can be just as psychological and physically damaged by such an encounter as a female.

11-22-2005, 02:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
Himbo Tilted Location: Canada	Yah those boys don't suffer at all. They think it's cool. That is until Ms. Teacher knocks on the parents doors shows them the wonderful child that came into this world as a result of the rape. Then guess what this lucky little boy gets to do. He gets the privilege of having to pay child support for the next 18 years of his life to his rapist so she can provide for this child. YAY!!!!

11-22-2005, 03:41 PM	#12 (permalink)
pandafaye Tilted Location: Maine	Just because a man has a hard on does not mean that he wants to have sex. How can you view rape as just being physical?

11-22-2005, 03:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I'm against the double standard. If women are more in control of sex in a relationship (as soooo many people say), then if anything they should be dealt with even more harshly than men. I say make it even. Female teacher lusting over little boys is just as sick as male teacher lusting over little girls.

11-22-2005, 03:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	In this particular case I do think the proper punishment was given. The boy wasn't coerced into sex with her. He was more than willing to play a part. I'd also expect the similar in older men/younger women relationships that play out under similar circumstances. 15 yr old girls can lust over older men just as much as 15 yr old boys can lust over older women. Maybe instead of reactionary sentencing we can look at things on a case by case basis and see if any harm was done to the 'victim'

11-22-2005, 03:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
AngelicVampire Insane	Out of curiosity (as it has happened in reverse) can a woman sleep with a man she met in say a night club then have him claim rape as it was non-consensual (women have occasionally cried rape in "consensual" cases where both parties were way too drunk to have any idea of what was happening)?

11-22-2005, 08:35 PM	#19 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	everyone is addressing the first case how about the second? Also what if the role was reveresed exactly and the young girl was bragging about having sex with her older male teacher and said it was consentual?

11-24-2005, 10:55 AM	#22 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	For those of you who believe in the double standard, you're going on the premise that the boys were more than willing, and the girls were coerced. I dont know if you know much about girls, but they are just as sexual as men. In my highschool we had a teacher who slept with half a dozen boys, everyone knew but no one did anything. Then we had a softball coach (male), who the women would litterally slip drugs into his drinks in order to have sex with him. People found out, he was fired and registered as a sex offender. Oh those poor poor little girls were ravaged!